Eagle223usa

I'm having a hard start issue with my 89 IROC. I've done the plugs, wires ign. module. Cap and rotor are good. Cranks fine, has spark, 50# of fuel pressure. It just takes a whole lot of cranking to get it to fire. I just noticed the EGR is missing and a block off plate is in it's place! Will this cause a hard start problem? It also seems to be running on the rich side, Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

tom3

Very common problem. Don't think the EGR removal has anything to do with it. I have the same problem, cranks maybe 20 revs before it will light off. I've replaced the whole ignition system, new injectors, pump and filter. Only thing left is the ECM and I can't see that helping. Sure like to figure this out too.

Eagle223usa

If you find out anything let me know.

ASE doc

Hey Eagle, I assume you checked fuel pressure while cranking. The most common cause of this type issue is a bad fuel pump relay. The next thing to check would be MAF voltage. You say it runs rich. Is MAF voltage higher than normal? (should run about .4 volts at idle)

The quick test for MAF sensor that I always use is to turn the key off, disconnect the sensor, then try starting the engine with the sensor disconnected. If it starts okay, the sensor may require cleaning or replace ment or there may be a MAF circuit problem. Also 50 psi is rather high. Should be about 40 key on engine off. You may want to look for a restriction in your return line.

tom3

My 89 also carries 50 psi with key on, engine off. Runs at about 41 psi. Does the MAF sensor have any effect on starting? I could dig into that if so.

ASE doc

The MAF affects every part of engine operation. It is the ECMs only way of monitoring air intake volume. A high MAF reading will cause a rich condition and will certainly cause hard starting. The test I described above will detect any gross defect in MAF output. Even fairly large defects may not set a DTC on these early systems. Small deviations in MAF are harder to find.

Watching datastream with a scanner is usually my second step in diagnosis, right behind reading codes. If you can get hold of a scanner, use it. On datastream, look for any sensor reading that is off even a little. For normal sensor values, you can look at Mitchell online, available at your local library. Or, if you use a quality scanner, it will give normal values to compare. Aside from the fuel pump relay itself, common causes of hard starting are CTS, MAF, and injector failure. If MAF tests okay and CTS looks good, test injectors.

Injectors can be checked for impedance by accessing pins D15 and D16 of the ECM connector. With battery negative and ECM disconnected, test for impedance between D15 and INJ1 fuse. Then test between D16 and INJ2 fuse. Reading should range from 3-4.5 ohms. Use a stethiscope to listen to injectors. They should all emmit a sharp click.

I still think that 50psi seems high but i gave up years ago trying to remember values from particular years and models. I will check this out on Monday and let you know what I find.

Eagle223usa

Thanks Doc, I'll check the Maf and get back to you. I probly won't get to work on her till next weekend.

ASE doc

Also, Ive rechecked my factory tech info and fuel pressure on your 89 tpi should run 40psi KOEO and 35 at idle with vacuum connected. Try disconnecting the regulator vacuum line from the plenum and see if fuel pressure rises. If it doesnt, you either have a bad regulator or clogged return line.

Eagle223usa

Thanks again Doc. I will print this and take it out to the garage with me this weekend.

ASE doc

Hey Eagle, Ive been looking more at the fuel pressure specs on the 89. Theres some conflicting info and I cant remember from the last one I worked on. Just the same, regardless of what you see on the gauge, disconnecting the vacuum and looking for a rise in pressure of about 5-10 psi is still valid. This will confirm that your regulator is good and since it is what manages fuel pressure, that will confirm that pressure is okay. One thing I have seen and that seems to be even more prevalent with the age of these cars is leaking injectors.

You need to devise a means of closing off both the pressure and return fuel lines. My MAC tools master FI pressure test kit has all the fittings I need for this. You may need to use pinch off pliers or some other means of blocking off flow. Turn on the key so that pressure rises to max. Then block off both lines and watch for a pressure drop. For this test to be valid you need to verify that no fuel is getting past the block youve created. You may need to disconnect the fuel lines and look for fuel seepage to be sure of this. With the lines properly blocked off, any pressure loss is leaking injectors.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I got a easier solution to check if there is a fuel leak. First turn on the IROC for about 5 seconds. If it doesnt turn on, gradually press on the pedal more and more until the IROC turns on. This causes the Fuel system from overflooding the cylinders and yes, you can flood a fuel injected car. Once the IROC turns on, go over to the vac line that connects from the FPR, to the Plenum. Disconnect the vac line from the Plenum and smell the vac line. If there is a distinctive order of gas, then you'll need to replace the FPR because the diaphram may be rotting and this can cause a drop in fuel pressure when the car is off. This may cause confusion with a a leaky injector. To check for a leaky injector or sudden drop of fuel pressure while car is off, first disconnect the fuel pump relay or the fuel pump fuse. Then turn on the car to relieve all pressure from the fuel lines. Once the car dies from lack of gas, then connect a fuel pressure gauge into the passenger side fuel rail. Make sure the gauge is properly screwed down. Now reconnect fuel pump relay or fuse (which ever you disconnected), and turn the key to on but dont crank the engine. You should hear the fuel pump prime the fuel system. Now run to the gauge and see if the pressure drops rather fast. If it does, then the problem may be either the fuel pressure regulator or a leaking fuel injector. It is kind of normal to lose some pressure in about 1 hour or so, but if you can see the needle in the gauge drop before your eye, then there is a leaking issue. Now if you really suspect a leaking fuel injector, there is a more easier way to verify. Turn on the car for about 2 seconds then turn off immediately to prevent the spark plug from getting hot. Now wait for about 5 minutes. Now whip out the spark plug socket and begin to take off one spark plug at a time (perfect time to replace spark plugs). If you find a wet or soaked spark plug (with gas), then you just located your leaking injector.
To comment on the CTS (coolant temperature sensor), I really dont think that has anything to do with a hard start (i could be wrong though). IIRC, all that the CTS does is is once it gets hot via coolant, it'll send the ECM a resistance or voltage that'll trigger the cooling fans to turn on depending on what the MemCal (PROM) has programmed.
All that the FPR does is it prevents the pressure from rising too high, as well as maintaine a certain pressure which is needed to operate the fuel injectors correctly.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Wait a minute. Are we forgetting the most common step in diagnosing a problem ? Lets wake up and smell the coffee or exaust guyz. Troublecodes . If it was your MAF sensor, you would have a TC of 33. If it has something to do with ignition, you would more than likely have a TC of 42. Here what you need to do. Disconnect the battery for 30 seconds with the headlight switch pulled ( to drain any lingering charge from the electrical system). Reconnect and try the overflooding method. Drive around and see if the SES light turns on. If it does, then reply with the code and we all will try to steer you in the right direction.

tom3

Excellent tips on checking for fuel pressure leak down. Could also put power to the fuel pump factory prime wire and run the pump for a while to get the plugs wet, checking for leaking injectors. I'll try that next on mine, it does bleed off fuel pressure pretty quick.

And if the regulator is leaking it should have some gas come out of the vacuum connection on the regulator shouldn't it?

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

FPR= If there is a catastrophic failure as in a large hole or crack in the diaphram, then your car wouldnt start correctly because there wouldnt be sufficient pressure to cause a mist or fog or better known as atomization, as the injectors plunger opens. To be honost with you, Ive never heard or read about gas actually leaking out of the vac line. The smell of gas is most common because of minute cracks of the rubber type diaphram due to the stretching of the spring that is attatched.
Problem with the fuel pressure being too low is instead of having atomization (fogging of fuel), you'll get a heavier mist or droplets. This results in a lost of performance, spark plug failure, and of course hard starting.

tom3 is correct about the manual fuel pump prime. All you got to do is get a wire that is connected to the + battery post and insert it into the ALDL port at terminal "G". The picture below shows terminal "G" which will prime the fuel pump so that you dont have to turn on the car when checking for "wet" spark plugs.

Eagle223usa

Thanks for all the input Guys. I was out today trying to start her before I checked for posts here. Anyhow, checked injector resistance and it is 15. to 15.3 on all injectors (Accell #24's) I checked a set of new #24 pound Ford motorsport injectors and they ohmed 16.1 to 16.3 will one ohm keep my car from starting? I did pull plug #1 after trying to start her up and it has a strong odor of fuel and was slightly wet. Any how she will not start now. When she did run last week she was running rich, enough to make your eyes burn in the garage. I did drop the fuel pressure some by dialing back the AFPR. I have a remote fuel pressure gauge in the cabin, She primes at 40lbs and goes up to 55lbs while cranking. The adjustment screw in the AFPR is all the way out. The pressure will not go any lower. I pulled the vac line and it smelled strongly of gasoline. So I need a diaphram right? Who makes a good one? The AFPR is a Holley. Thanks for all the help Guys, I truly appreciatte it.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Yup. That's an issue. Well if you want to keep the AFPR, then I would suggest you call Holley @ 1-866-GO-HOLLEY. Ask them if they distribute just the diaphragm. If so, ask for the model number so that you can use that model number as a reference if you call Jegs or Summit. Or you can just call Jegs and Summit. If they do supply just the diaphragm, then type in the part number into google, select shopping and hit enter. Then select shopping in the upper left. Then look over to the right and select "sort by: low to high price. Then select the lowest priced item and click for the link. Then call Summit and tell them what your looking for. If they got it, ask them to do a price match. They will ask for the link and match and beat it. But it'll only work for sites that are not auction such as Ebay or Craigslist. Other than that, Autozone sells one for , they raised the price!!!!! Around 6 months ago I bought one for around $35. Anyway, here is the info on the diaphragm. I dont know if it'll fit your Holley.
Gp-Sorensen/Fuel Pressure Regulator Kit
For your 1987 Chevrolet Camaro 5.7L FI 8cyl












Price:
$66.99



AVAILABILITY:

STORE PICK UP
AVAILABLE
Normally stocked at your local store.


SHIP TO HOME
AVAILABLE
Ships within 2 business days.















Part Number:800-122Weight:0.15 lbsWarranty:1 YR Notes:O.E.M. #17085051, 17085165, 17085171, 17090154, 17110827, 17110835, 17110839, 17110845, 17110856, 17110874, 17112385

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I forgot to mention that you can light a lighter to verify if the "wettness" is fresh gas when you pull out the plug. If it is fresh gas as in leaking into the cylinder, then it would ignite (the wet spark plug). But yes. You do need a new diaphragm. Who sells a good one? I dont know but Holley should. Do what I suggested and call Holley. Let us know what you find.

Eagle223usa

ACC-150824 Fuel Injectors, 24 lbs./ hr., 14.4 Ohms Impedance, 12 V Saturated Circuit Driver, Universal, Set of 8
Today $249.95
ACC-150821 Fuel Injectors, 21 lbs./ hr., 14.4 Ohms Impedance, 12 V Saturated Circuit Driver, Universal, Set of 8
Today $259.95
ACC-150826 Fuel Injectors, 26 lbs./ hr., 14.4 Ohms Impedance, 12 V Saturated Circuit Driver, Universal, Set of 8
Today $259.95
ACC-150819 Fuel Injectors, 19 lbs./ hr., 14.4 Ohms Impedance, 12 V Saturated Circuit Driver, Universal, Set of 8
Today $259.95
ACC-150823 Fuel Injectors, 23 lbs./ hr., 14.4 Ohms Impedance, 12 V Saturated Circuit Driver, Universal, Set of 8
Today $259.95

This information is from Summit racing. So if my #24lb. Accells are over 15 ohms they are still good? I will check for leakdown today.

Eagle223usa

If not will these work?

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Honostly, you should get a set of 8 Bosch III's. They only cost around $160 with shipping. Let me tell you , I got a set and I am happy that I went with my gut feelong. Seriously, you will not be disappointed. If you are interested, Go to the search tab and type in SouthBay under the members search area. The Blue inject seems like it would work. But go for the Bosch III's. They look just like the blue one in your picture (ecxept the Bosch are yellow).

ASE doc

Whoa!! Slow down a second guys. In the first place lets get a firm grasp on what the CTS actually does.

The CTS is the ECMs only way of knowing what engine temp is. When CTS is reading low, the ECM increases injector pulsewidth to compensate. This compensation begins with engine cranking. Its called cold start enrichment. After start up it and after start enrichment it becomes warm up enrichment. Throughout all of this, the ECM uses info from the CTS to know how much fuel to add.

So in fact the CTS has everything to do with starting.

Im sorry 86 Chevy IROC Z, your method for testing for a leaking injector leaves too much to chance. What about the intake valves that are closed? How will we know if those injectors are leaking? As far as the FPR goes, at 40+ psi, fuel will be coming out from the vacuum line if the diaphram is perferrated. If the engine is flooded, youre going to smell fuel everywhere so a strong fule smell is not a clear indication of anything.

The method I instructed Eagle to use is a time proven method as used by myself and my fellow professional diagnostic technicians. I know it may not sound simple but it works. Excuse me if I get a little harsh here. Ive been diagnosing and repairing cars for 35 years, Im an ASE Master Technician, L1 Advanced Engine Performance Specialist. If we are going to help people diagnose their cars, which is already difficult to do when we cant actually run our own tests on the car. Then we need to be very sure that we dont give people misleading information.

The only sure way of verifying an injector leak is to either remove the injector nozzle from the manifold and pressurize the rails so that we can see the injector leak. Other wise we have to rely on pressure loss as our eyes to what the injectors are doing. In order to know for certain if the pressure loss is an injector, we must be sure that pressure is not escaping elsewhere.

It is perfectly acceptable for fuel pressure to drop off significantly within 2 minutes after the pump shuts down. Back leakage through the check valve, pressure passing through the FPR is normal. Therefore, we cannot depend on system pressure loss as a means of verifying a leaky injector. We must pressurize the system and seal it off securely at both ends to know if fuel is leaking from an injector.

All this said, why are we jumping at replacing injectors in the first place? At what point did we get the injectors as the cause of this issue? Wet plugs sounds alot more to me like no spark than too much fuel. We need to back up and begin with a no start test sequence.

First, check spark at more than one spark plug. We check spark at the spark plug end of the wire first because there are several places between the coil and the spark plug where we can lose spark energy. If we find no spark at the plugs, we move next to the coil and check for spark there. This verifies that the cap and rotor are okay. If there is no spark at the coil, we test for primary voltage and pulse.

Using a 12v test light, look first for power at the pink wire with the key on. Next, while a helper cranks the engine, test for pulse between the white wire and battery +. If we have power and pulse, replace the coil. If there is no power, check the main fuse next to the battery and solve the no power issue. If there is no pulse, we need to look at the pick up coil and ignition module. ECM or a shorted EST circuit can also cause no spark but lets burn that town when we get to it.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I did say that I could be wrong about the CTS. Listen to ASE doc. Hey ASE doc, I like your method. Its good to know someone who really knows what they are saying.

ASE doc

My information is not always the best. While I am experienced, I am also old and forgettful. I sometimes dont take all things into account. Having you guys to work with helps me think straight sometimes. I will do my best to share my experience and knowledge. Honestly, alot of what I tell you can be read on any good diagnostic program or a factory service manual.

ASE doc

One thing I should say in regards to ACCEL brand parts. Throughout my career, I have worked with a broad range of aftermarket parts. I built my own car using several brands. I specify parts based on individual quality and compatability, ignoring hype. With some manufacturers, I have had great success with little or no failures. With others I have had less success.

ACCEL is one of those manufacturers with which I have had less success. I installed their gen 6 DFI system along with a Billettech distrbutor in my IROC in 99 and have had no issues with these, otherwise most every ACCEL part Ive ever installed has come back to haunt me. I will never use their injectors or ignition systems again ever. On the other hand, I have never had issues with Bosch injectors. Just sharing my experience.

88gta_hiflyer

iTrader: (1)

Had the exact same problem with my LB9. Turned out to be leaking fuel injectors. A set of Bosch IIIs from southbay fixed the problem immediately.

Eagle223usa

Ok, I ordered the diaphram from Holley. Waiting for it to arrive. Doc, what should my intiail timing be set at? Thanks again.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Not to sure if you have a EST connector, but if you do, disconnect it and dial in the timing at 6*. This is how I got my 86 IROC. But since your 3rd Gen is a 89, it may differ.

Eagle223usa

Hey Chevy86, 6 degrees is stock. My friends her in the Burg are saying jack her up to 12 for more power. (No power with it not starting anyhow!). I haven't been able to work on her for a week. Bummer. Oh, Doc I did try disconnecting the MAF and saw no change. Another Bummer. Thanks Guys.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

It is stock. But you must remember that our ECM or ESC module automatically takes over spark timing. Dont get confused when friends begin to feed junk into your brain. I dont know much about turning the dizzy too advanced or too much retard, but I can tell you that you will begin to backfire. We have mid 80's to early 90's technology to take care of the timing on any givin condition. Im sure that you dont have a vacuum advance on your dizzy right? Im not too sure how this works but you dont want to advance the timing to much because you will destroy your engine. For example, you would want for combustion to occur just after the piston passes over the peak (TDC) to increase the power right? But if the spark occurs too late, then you could lose combustion power. Now if the spark occurs before the piston reaches TDC, then you'll encounter pre detonation which means that the piston is compressing the combustion, causing serious engine knock (detonation). If your ride is stock, I would set at stock. Let the ECM handle the spark timing.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

ASE doc, any suggestions or corrections?

Eagle223usa

OK, played with her today. At first she fired right up. Shut her down and she would not restart. It sounds like its firing through th exhaust. I'm starting to think slop in the timing chain.

ASE doc

On the timing question, the EST system controls ignition advance. However, since it cant see what base timing is, it can only manage additional advance. Therefore, increasing initial advance will increase overall advance and can add a little power. Its something that has to be played with. Start at 12 and test drive it listening for any for any sign of preignition. Back off timing 2 degrees at a time until there is no pinging. On stock motors the best spot Ive found is 10 degrees.

Firing through the exhaust could very well be a sloppy timing chain. A quick and definite test for this is to remove the distributor cap and turn the crank back and forth with a breaker bar and 5/8 socket. The dist should move right along with the crank with no more that 2 degrees of backlash. Anymore than 4 degrees backlash is either a worn out dist gear or a loose timing chain.

Keep in mind though that a few items in the ignition system itself can cause the same symptom. Carbon tracking in the cap, a bad EST circuit to name just two.

Eagle223usa

Ok Doc, pulled the distributor after checking for slop and there is some. The gear on the dist is worn, a new one is on the way. I didn't measure it in degrees but there is slack between the crank and the rotor moving. What got me thinking this way is sometimes when it starts, it like "catches compression" and Voom, fires right up. Make any sense? I did the dist. tests listed in the FSM and it seems to be ok as far as I can tell. Thanks again.

Ps. Is it possible to change the timing gears and chain without removing the engine?

ASE doc

Yes, In fact Ive changed cams with the engine installed. The one issue you will run into is the joint between the timing cover and oil pan. You need to lower the pan to R&R the timing cover without damaging it. Fortunately, the 87 up oil pan gasket is a one piece silicone rubber design and much easier to work with than the earlier four peice cork and rubber type. The gasket can be inserted between the pan and block after cleaning the mating surfaces. Take care slipping it past the oil pickup tube.

A good idea is to clean the engine, especially the pan and timing cover area as well as possible with a pressure washer before doing the work. This will make it much less messy.

On your intermittent quick starting, LOL. This could very well be an EST bypass circuit problem. The ECM sends a 5v signal through the tan/blk EST circuit during cranking to bypass EST timing control. Do you have access to a replacement dist? You might still need a timing chain but the cause of your intermittent start may actually be the ICM in your distributor.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Yup. I had to remove the camshaft on my IROC. Removed everything (radiator, belts, water pump, removed engine mounts and used cherry picker to lift engine about 3 inches just to clear the oil pan to remove the timing chain cover without tearing up the gasket). It was a P.I.T.A..

88gta_hiflyer

iTrader: (1)

Hey Eagle,

I just found the same problem with my car. I tore into the top end of the motor because I found metal shavings in my oil and the source turned out to be a worn distributor gear. Anybody know what would cause this to happen? Should I replace it with a bronze gear?

On a separte note, why does the oil pan need to be dropped in order to remove the timing cover? I was considering installing a new timing set and possibly doing a cam swap while I've got everything apart but I really don't want to unbolt the motor mounts and drop the pan. Any way around that?

Eagle223usa

Doc, ICM? I replaced the Module. Is that what you meant? 88GTA, The timing chain cover has a lip that locks into the front of the oil pan. I didn't think I could get away without dropping the pan. Chevy86, I kinda figured it would be a pain, what cam did you go with? Thanks again Guys

ASE doc

The ICM is the ignition control module in the dist. Unfortunately, you do have to lower the pan to replace the timing chain. You do not have to undo the motor mounts to do this. Just unbolt the pan, let it lay on the crossmember, slip the old pan gasket out past the oil pump pickup and the new one in. Again, be sure everything is cood and clean before you start so youre not working in grung.

You dont want to use my cam unless youve built a serious motor to put it in.

The dist or cam gear being ground up is likely because of a mismatch. 87 and later, roller motors use a soft steel dist gear to go with the soft billet gear on the roller cam. Non roller motors use a cast iron dist gear and nodular iron camshaft. Some aftermarket roller cams have a cast iron gear welded onto the billet shaft to allow use of the harder iron dist gear.

ASE doc

At least I dont remember having to raise the motor off its mounts. Maybe I did. I am old and forgetful and I work on a hundred+ cars a month. Lol. The rad and AC condenser definitely have to come out. Theres a little bracket in front of the condenser that has be loosened and moved aside too. But its not all that bad. Lol. Really

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Summit racing sold me the wrong cam for a non computer controlled cam. I called and asked about some hesitation. They then asked if I had a tpi and sure enough. I got my money back. So I talked a fellow TGO member and he sold me his 1994 Z28 roller cam shaft (LT-1 cam). That is what is my power plant.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I lifted the engine because I got fusterated with the limited space.

Eagle223usa

I replaced the dist. drive gear before work today, Got her slapped back together and still no start. I set the balancer at 12degrees before TDC and set the rotor on #1. Cranks fine, no start.

I'm starting to wonder if the balancer didn't spin on the rubber insert, I had that happen on my 81 Z28 when it only had like 60k.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

You'll need somebody to help you on this advice. Loosen up the dizzy. Have another person turn the dizzy left and right while you crank. If the timing was off, then it should turn on while the other is spinning the dizzy. I have my timing at 6* with the EST wire disconnected.

ASE doc

The balancer turning is possible but it is unusual. I have seen it more on TPI motors though than any other. Perhaps because these motors get run harder. 86 IROC's advice is valid. Ive used that method several times before. 6 degrees is factory base timing on your motor. I would first however retest spark and injector pulse just to be sure nothing else is happening.

Any time we get a no start, even when we've checked things recently, we always need to go back to basics and be sure that we have all the necessary ingredients for combustion. Compression, fuel, and spark.

It often seems like wasted time to recheck all these things but better to waste it knowing for sure than to beat our heads against a wall when an obvious issue hides just a quick test away.

Eagle223usa

Thanks guys, I do have a timing light but can't use it until she fires up! I set the balancer at 12 on the compression stroke, and dropped the dis. at #1. Correct right? I'll yank the pulleys today and check the balancer. The timing mark should line up with the keyway in the crank right? Doc, will a ZZ4 cam work in my car?

Eagle223usa

Ok, I may have found the problem. The keyway is not lined up with the timing mark. It should be right?

ASE doc

Actually, It should be very close. Ive never really noticed if it lines up exactly. The keyway lines up with #1&2 rod journal centerline. So that with the crank at #1 TDC, the keyway will point to the #1 piston, about 2 o'clock. Right where the timing tab sits on the L98. On motors where the timing tab is at 12 o'clock, the timing mark will not line up with the keyway.

Eagle223usa

Hey Doc, I compared it to another balancer and it seems to be in the right spot. I spent friday re reading your posts. My neighbors buddy Ben stopped over with him (Armondo) for a beer at midnight after some a$$ tried to steal my truck out of my driveway. Ben and Armondo chased them off and all was good. Ben started asking about the Camaro so I said what the heck and popped the hood. I told him what your opinion was of Accell parts and he agreed. I then told him my ICM was a brand new Accell. He stated at his garage he has seen them come out of the box bad. So I replaced it with the original and after a few trys it fired up. I broke out my timing light to check the timing and the mark is wandering around about an inch either way. So I definitley need a timing chain. They also used a stethescope on the injectors and the rockers. I have all injectors firing and four or five loose rocker arms (GMPP rollers.) Looks like I'll be dropping the pan and doing a timing chain next friday. Armondo gave my a new Cloyes chain and gear set for a rollercam small block. He told me he bought it for a Vortech engine he was building but it will not fit with the composite cover. I hope it works, It'll save me about $100. Thanks again to all you guys! I'm getting her done!

Eagle223usa

I just remebered that I forgot to disconnect the EST wire when I set the base timing, Dang it.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I could picture you doing this .... That was what I was going to ask you, If you had disconnected the EST wire prior to testing the timing. Hope the new timing chain works out for ya.