not bad for a 355.

 

Huh?? Who are you talking about? Because deep down inside we all know who copied who . If that helps you sleep at night go for it. Your engine was running while my COMPLETE car was getting built the engine combo was the first thing. Then you blew up your engine and copied me

 

Ok guys! Some of you went way off topic. This topic is about a TPI car and it's Dyno numbers. Not this other bullshit. Start another thread on that conversation. Keep it TPI on this one. Peace!

 

A little late for that hahaha might as well change the title of this one!

 

He probably failed to mention the ECU was changed and tuned to go with the 100 HP shot of nitrous.

Congrats to everyone who got new bests at the SCTPI Dyno Day last Saturday. It was a pleasure to tune your cars and help you get the most horsepower out of them. We'll be doing it again this Saturday. TPI is not dead!

 

TPI is not dead!

No it certainly is not, but my 750 Holley sure is! ALL the TPI cars peaked at a higher RPM than me, waz up wit dat???

 

I have to agree and it's sad to see mods and members act this way because people have questions and don't agree with the technical information. But I think it goes with the club mentality.

I'm still patiently waiting for the details there are a good 2-3 of us that wasn't there still in the thread. All we got was some peak numbers and products, like a magazine ad. TPI is awesome I don't know who says it's dead. It's not dead it's just expensive IMO.

You all have to keep it by law but not here. I can't tell you how many thirdgens I looked passed when I was buying a new daily driver because the fool took the FI off for a carb.

 

What details do you want to know? I don't understand why or how the LS engine is even being discussed? I'm a huge fan of the LS engine and own an LS1 and building a monseter LS2 but this isn't the topic or let along the section for that talk.

Some of us here don't have to keep it by the law(hell I am a cop), but we choose to do so to prove a point.

 

can someone post the dyno graph?

 

The "LS" series of engines are making power in the RPM range that we (the TPI guys) are always striving to attain. I feel that we already have a good handle on the lower RPM power, we just need to be able to put it to the ground! I'll stay in touch. Pat

 

Hey Pat I sent you a PM

 

My car is on the same dyno but it was dynoed back in March, 2010. What do you guys think? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQm-Hmqm1v8&NR=1

 

Hey Don, Kevin, Allen, Vincent can one of you guys post a graph?

 

also, i think what you guys are doing with tpi is awesome

it's hard to tell from all the threads and all the crap flying around, but it seems like ya'll are trying to produce the most hp/tq from a genI sbc with a "tpi" intake while remaining emissions legal?

So no restriction on cubic inches as long as it remains a gen I small block, and the "tpi" is defined as a batch fire "tuned port" set up, so a sheet metal "tpi" intake would still fall into the tpi category so long as it's batch fire with injectors in each runner? but it still has to pass the sniffer/visual emissions inspection? am i correct?

 

Very impressive numbers, you guys have me second guessing going with the HSR. I have the stock TPI on my warmed over 350, and need to make some changes to make any sort of power over 4000rpm.
Thanks!

 

Well , the motor size we try to work with is 350-355 cu.in.
I don't think we can get enough air flow to support a stroker, I could be wrong.

I will post the dyno specs, but the first guy to start crap again will cause me to remove it.
You know who, please refrain from commenting.

The good part is we have good air when we dyno but no tracks around here with good air, usually ADA of 3000ft.

 

after seeing what kind of numbers this 280xfi cam is making in a SR 355ci im thinkin hard about not installing my xfi lobe 224-230 .560s-.570s 112 and changing to the bigger 280xfi.

How would this same combo run with the FIRST tpi setup vs SR?

 

Well you can be the first to find out.

The advantage we have here is that it only cost us $85.00 per hour to dyno our cars and Kevin91z is doing the tuning. In short, we have seen a lot of different TPI combos on the dyno and we know what works and what doesn't work. This is the information we are putting out there for the rest of you to know.

I know this for a fact and seen it for myself, a bone stock G92 350 with a full exhaust system with Dyno Don headers will produce 248-255whp@4800.

We have seen a 383 with a Vortec manifold, fully ported E-Tec 200 heads, XFI268 Cam and Super Ram make 331whp. After welding up the manifold and porting the hell out of it and changing the cam to XFI292 it made 394whp.

Another car with a fully Extrude Hone TPI Edelbrock system(manifold,runners,plenum), Fully ported Corvette L98 heads, LT4 Hot Cam and Dyno Don headers made 331whp.

Thanks to Jerrywho, he discovered how to rework the manifold and siemese the runners to make peek hp above 6000rpms. And we are still not done. We are working on making over 400whp and still pass emission in California. We are not changing parts, we are going to work with what we already have.

 

"We are not changing parts, we are going to work with what we already have."

The R&D continues.

 

Quick question Almost Everytime i see your guys big power numbers it has one of those jerry who modified manifolds. And im quite jeleous but how much do you guys have invested in the intake systems alone.

 

No more than it would take to buy the First manifold and runners.

But if I bought the First I would mod the front to install a dual blade TB.

Just so it would look more standard (Cali you know).

 

how much money would it take to have my accel manifold jerry whoed anyways?

 

The welding is usually $100 Dr. J gets $525 for the port work.

 

I see the airflow number as important. It's the "potential" that the head can flow at each lift it is measured. Obviously if the flow is high and the intake cc are smallish the lower lift numbers will be proportionally higher. I agree with one thing you metioned in an earlier thread Injector Plus, you cannot relly on what the manufacturer says the heads flow. They must be checked to be sure. I also understand if you go out past about 195 - 200 cc intake you are choosing the wrong head for this kind of application.
Since Power is made through the heads its about the combination and you guys have it down as good as anyone.
Dyno Don, my hat is off to you guys! You are undoubtedly making more power as a group of 350 TPI's than anyone else I have read about. I am pumped about going to the dyno. I hope to dyno in the next 10 days to 2 weeks. I won't make that kind of power but just hearing about what can be done is inspiring.

 

One other question/comment. Can the First "Base" be purchased seperately? Just curious.

 

You may be able to talk them into selling you just a base.

DA of 3000ft? On a good day.

 

I don't post here very often (don't even lurk very often) but seeing threads like this make me want to stick with my TPI cause I love the way it acts off the line and the way it sounds just not the higher RPM performance. However there's no freakin way I could bring myself to put 300+hp in front of my T5. With my luck with cars I'm askin to break that tranny quick. So I'll be putting a TKO or T56 into the IROC before I start playing with the engine.

 

Nicely done Don. That looks like a fun engine, pulls to 6K, torque falling off around 4500. That's the way I like them to run.

 

Swapping parts passes for R&D?

Now I understand the problem in perspective...

 

Damn look how flat that torque curve that is awesome. It doesn't show under 3k but just looking at it you can assume it has loads of power off idle to 6k. My only question is what are you planning to do to get that 7hp to achieve the psychologically satisfying 400rwhp?

Ray Jr speak for your self man, belligerently pounding out text on your keyboard isn't helping sell your perspective any. One guy backs his ideas with science and another backs his with extra exclamation points.

 

If you look, right at 56k-57k it starts to fall off, I think we have a valve spring issue to deal with. Most will hold to 6k-61k some to 63k.
Trick flow springs don't seem to be the best.

 

Dyno Don,

What springs are you using? Any specs on the spring pressures and rates? I was working with a buddy of mine who has a mild .060" over 350 L98 block with 280xfi and HSR with AFR 190's. Its running pretty good, faster than my bolt on auto LS1 TA, but I think the old AFR springs are holding it back. I'd expect a peak in the 6200 rpm range and carry to 6400-6500 if the heads could support it (which I think they should). Car seems to be done by 6000-6200 rpm shifts. I think those old AFR springs are only 120# seat and 350 open. I'd like to see more like 150# seat and 400 open with those lobes like the new AFR 8019 springs have.

Just curious as to what springs you guys are running as you guys primarily use XFI lobes and some other aggressive custom grind lobes.

PS, over 400lbft on a 355 is insane! very nice job there.

 

Hello folks-
Seemingly how I had to read through 3 pages which should've equaled 1.2 at best waiting for a dyno chart, I have a couple things to say...

Im seriously happy for Topteam54 and DynoDon (and you too Vincent) for pulling this new development out of the TPI "bog"! Any of you guys have any pics of the base all said and done? There's no way I could replicate Dr. J's porting so I guess Im just curious. We all know the choke point in a TPI set-up is TPI itself but just like someone commented (sorry, can't remember who), there's just not enough tech out there for us to have a solid basis on whats working for what. Sure we can port the plenum, hog out the base and bolt on some runners but thats not a good enough answer! I would also like to see some pics of the head work and a flow chart too.

Injector guy, seemingly how I just read through all your posts for an educated fact.... I just want to say this board exists because in essence, we like the idea of taking TPI to new levels. This is well proven in just this thread which took the effort of many professionals that not only post on these forums, but proves the fact that we arent stuck reading back issues from 1990.

 

It may be worth it to get the retainers on a scale too if you don't mind my since you are in there. Who knows what TFS used there too?

Good Beehives seem an obvious choice to control aggressive roller cams.

If a guy was to copy this from scratch he would probably be wise to use 8mm valves, z06 retainers, beehives, stainless full roller rockers, to squeeze an extra 500-700rpm.

 

I can't tell you about the SBC stuff, but I know for a FACT the Ford modular and SBF TFS stuff was something I have seen several problems with.

 

Check the springs! My AFR springs gave out on me and ended up costing me big time! You could compress them by hand!

 

I told him to run it out this season and see what we could get out of the car. If it would hook and 60 foot like it should, it should go 7.7's in the 1/8 at 87mph. Not all that bad but I was expecting closer to 90mph and 7.5's if it indeed has 375-390whp in it like some guys have achieved with the 280XFI cam on HSR setups. Granted the 190 heads arent in the same ballpark as the new 195 eliminators but should still make decent power. Over winter I suggested to upgrade springs but having trouble finding a suitable kit thats not too expensive. beehive kit is only thing I see right now but its only 130 or so lbs on the seat which I think is abit too light. I know the beehive shape is the reason they control the valves so well so maybe it will work out fine.

Valve control is crucial to making power above 6000 rpm...even 5800 rpm. XFI stuff is aggressive.

 

A couple of us are using the Manley Beehive springs 155# seat and open 385 or something like that. But on Dyno Dons engine, one of the springs broke in 3 places and bent the #4 valve. That sucks. He's going to try Manleys daul spring, 165#seat 395 open. Can the LS7 lifters handle that spring pressure with squeezing the oil out of the lifter?

Oh by the way, I,m going to try to find a way to get 17hp to reach 400hp.

Just a note, the XFI292 will not pass smog. Its been tried already as of now.

 

I can tell you I have been running the LS7's with AFR 8019 double springs shimmed to 165-170# seat pressure and 412 open with no issues. Great valve control on the AFR 195 eliminators to over 6800 rpm with a 230/245 .603/.613 cam.

If you want a great lifter that will handle ANY spring load you want on it, get the Morel lifters. Current street C6 vette land speed record in Europe is a Z06 427 twin turbo that went 230+ mph. He runs 225lbs seat and around 500 open I believe.
I ordered a set for my twin turbo car just because I thought one of my LS7 lifters may have been going bad since I heard some noise late this year. Turns out my driver side manifold bolts were loose, so 99% sure it was exhaust leak.

They are pricey at 580 or so a set for the link bar. Basically a solid roller type lifter with tool steel body so that they dont flex at all under the tremendous oil pressure they can see under operation. (engine oil may be 40-80psi but in and around the lifter bores, it can be as much as 20-30,000 i was told and that can flex typical factory lifters). Its quite common to see some oil bleed down with factory lifter bodies so you end up not running full cam lift and duration. I have seen 10-20hp gains from Morels posted before. Call Chris Straub and talk to him about them. 423-854-0007 http://www.straubtechnologies.com/index.html

 

Ok cool! Its just the little minor things that will get us over the 400whp mark. But we will have to do it step by step. The question I have is has anyone on TGO made over 400whp with a 355 TPI without S/C or NOS and with shorty headers?

 

If they did I haven't seen it.

Would still like to see what your guys cars would do at the track, you would think high 11's to very low 12's at the very least.

 

You're really close..... My AFR headed 355 went 12.00 and 11.00 on 150.

 

Not bad at all, care to talk more about your combo or have a link to it?

Also what's your race weight?

 

At the track we usually go to the DA is usually in the 2300 range. At the last meet we attended the DA went from 3200 to around 3500 in the afternoon. My 355 car went 12.09 at 113 MPH. At sea level that would have been well into the 11's. I expect TopTeams car to be very close to those numbers. He has a couple of mods to do and I bet he exceeds the 400rwhp number.

 

I hope to see some good results too. Some that i have seen posted just dont seem to add up to the power numbers, even tho the DA may be near 3000ft. Then again some may have dyno'd thru manuals (like this thread's 355 superam) which put down a good bit more hp than autos. In 2500-ish ft DA, my 392whp/371wtq (very hot motor-10th pull and tq was droppin each run) thru an auto locked up converter went 11.4 at 118-119 mph. 3450lb with driver. I use that as one benchmark. All stock interior Iroc with 8pt rollbar installed on race wheels/skinnies.

 

Honestly I still use TRAXION old build as a benchmark lol, still haven't seen anyone really touch it though out of a 5.7L at least.

 

Back to Orr's car for comparison.

My 355 motor was putting down around 370rwhp. My race weight was right around 3700 pounds. Car, heavy GTA 3440 and me at 260.

So let's say in comparable air my car went 12 flat. Take away 250 pounds and we are down to 11.75. Add 25 horsepower to my motor and we are down to 11.5 sec. Very comparible to Orr's numbers of 11.4.

 

you mean 11's? Sure hope I dont go slower with less weight.
I think your car is on par with the times for the weight. 300 lbs difference will definately make an ET/mph difference

Good build. I think GTA Matt has gone 11.9's at 114 on stock bottom end with heads/cam miniram setup. May have gone faster i cant recall. Think it had less cam than trax's car (thought he had a big joe overton or cc306 cam in the low 230's duration?)

 

Yeah he had a big joe overton cam.

You guys are all a bunch of lightweights, try going down the track at +3900 ibs LOL

 

Hahahahaha. My mind is stuck in the 12's. I edited my post.