Psudokiller

after realizing my long block is a 69 Camaro engine and the cam is not computer compatible (prolly why it was not running right for the old owner)
i have decided it needs a new cam, here is the question...

what is the most radical cam i can get that will work with tuned port injection?

engine specs are this..

1969 l-48 Camaro 350, 10.25-1 comp hydraulic flat-tappet block (cant yet afford to upgrade to roller unless i buy used or clearance)

race ported 461 Fuelie heads, 1.94" in, 1.60" ex, about as ported as a sbc Fuelie head can get

all mechanical accessories from a 85 tpi 305 engine

stock 85 305 tpi ecu

87 corvette/Camaro 5.7l tuned port injection

hooker comp headers(soon) and flow-masters, 2 1/2" tubing, true dual

replaced rear end with 3.23 posi gears

thm 700r4 automatic with stock converter (can replace with a stall if needed)

any suggestions?

built91Z28

Before you worry about a cam to fix your problem, you may want to get that 305 computer programed for your 350. I think that will make a bigger difference in driveablity.

Psudokiller

second question, will the stock cam work with the tuned port injection until such time as i can afford a roller setup, which is where i really want to be?

how many problems can i expect?

stock cam specs are 222/222 duration at .050", .390"in/.410"ex 112*
but it was build in an era where electronic fuel injection was as foreign a though as a hand held telephone...

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I would look into junking the 870 ecm and upgrade to a 1227165 with 6E programing, what size injectors are you running ?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I have a Hlh eprom that would work for a upgrade but the 870 is a junk ecm.

Psudokiller

stock injectors, not sure size

Psudokiller

im about to just upgrade to a mega-squirt, i do intend to go radical in the future so might as well

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

you might want to get the numbers off them you need to be running 22#hr and might have to run a adjustable fuel pressure regulator.

Psudokiller

looking like im going to run it stock for now then, i can afford a cam, cant afford all the rest lol

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

put a 305 chip in the thing. You need to be running 19lb/hr injectors too. Also are you running that thing with no knock sensor? Your ecm should be retarding your timing if so. 222/222@50 is too much cam. Run something more like 202/207@50 or a computer compatible flat -tappet cam made for tpi. How much lift can your heads handle?

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

You can't run roller cams in that motor.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

To answer your question tho,the largest cam you can run in tpi without reprogramming is probably the tpis L98 Supercam 220/220@.50 duration,but that is a roller version. That may not give you that great low end torque though, especially if nothing else is changed to match.

BuzzLOL

.. OK, some wrong info and suggestions above, I think they misread your spec.s, also, you gave some incorrect info...

.. You need 22 or 24 lb. injectors for a 350" engine... can grab some used ones from recycling yard off a TPI 350"... or people on here have takeouts... eBay, C.L., swaps etc... they should read 10 - 20 ohms resistance... if out of that range, try to find some others...

.. You gave the lift #'s of a Chevy L48 and other base level engine cam, BUT the duration numbers of about a Chevy L79/L46/L82 350HP 327"/350" cam... one is wrong, maybe both... you have to find what you have... either will work, but you need to know what you are working with... prolly need to burn a chip for the bigger cam, read the beginner's Performance Prom sticky above for info that will save you a stinking fortune... don't try to understand it all at first, just read it fast for now... you'll understand the important parts...

.. Base 327/350/all 400s cam: 196/202 duration at .050" lift, .390"/.410" max valve lift (& L48 Vette 350")

.. (265", 283" and some really slug pollution and/or pickup 327" & 350" engines may have gotten a 184/196 .380"/.390" cam)

.. L79 350HP 327" cam: 221/221 .447"/.447"

.. L46 350HP 350" & L82 250netHP 350" cam: 222/222 .450"/.460"

.. L81 Vette 350" and L69 SS 305" cam: 202/206 ~.420"/~.430"

.. Stock TPI 350" roller cams about 207/209 .440"/.450" (early 305" smaller & flat, some 350's smaller to meet Gov't Regs some years)

.. You CAN retro-convert to a roller cam/lifters/springs setup, but that can easily go over a $1,000 with all new parts... a ZZ3/ZZ4 350" crate engine takeout 208/221 .490"/.510" roller cam can sometimes be found cheap and works very well...but still need pricey retro-roller lifters for your block...

.. MultiPort EFI was NOT unknown in 1985, Cadillac V8's and Olds V8's had it from about 1975...

.. You can prolly get by with the untuned 870 ECM for now, depending on which cam you have... (reading that sticky above will clue you in)

.. LOL! I really don't consider them fully 'fuelie' heads unless they have the 2.02"/1.60" valves...

.. Can prolly get by OK with the stock stall converter...

.. True duals hard to put under an F-body, not much room under there, torque bar in way, usually just a BIG single tube in middle of car...

.. '87 TPI for F-body and 'Vette are not quite the same, '87 & up iron heads have center two intake to head bolts at a different angle, 'Vette -113 aluminum heads kept the '55 - '86 single angle bolts... sounds like you may have the 'Vette TPI usable for L48 iron heads... unless it was modified to fit...

.. Most any cam can be used with TPI with ECM mods... however, since TPI long runner air flow tuning resonance whacks off power at 4500 RPMs in engines larger than 305", doesn't make sense to use a cam with a really high RPM powerband range... even the stock TPI 350" 207/209 roller cam wants to HP out at 5200 RPMs & 335HP (if used with a 4bbl. carb.&intake)... but the TPI limits HP above 4500...

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, i misread. Thought he was using a 305 block. Well, i guess he is ok then other than that cam that is in there and as long as he is using a 350 prom and knock sensor. That cam is A little big IMO.

Damon

On the cheap, stick a Summit house brand K1102 cam kit in it (204*/214* @ .050 on a 112* LSA). It's similar to the specs on the original 305 TPI engine (maybe a scosh hotter, but not much). If you want to play with fire, step up one notch to the K1103 (which is 10* biggger and has a little more lift). Without custom programming you don't even want to try to install "the bigggest cam possible". It won't help and it will hurt.

I have found the quality of the Summit cams to be very good and the price is definitely right- about $90 including a set of flat tappet lifters.

Regarding the tuning..... the older MAF-equipped TPI systems can actually handle bigger engines and larger cams pretty well if you don't go too far. However, they can NOT handle "lying" to them by installing larger injectors than the programming thinks are installed. If you have a 305 prom, stick with 305 sized injectors (19#). Yes, they will likely max out in the higher RPMs and things will generally not be optimal, but it will drive around and respond to throttle inputs much better than trying to run 350-sized injectors (22#) with a 305 chip. That's the cheapest and most effective route to victory until you are ready to do some real programming of the factory computer or replace it with a fully programmable aftermarket unit

Psudokiller

ok i looked again and your right i got the duration wrong, its the 196/202 duration cam

although still not sure if the engine is stock

the engine was in my 85 z28 with 87 305 tbi truck heads, a 87 iroc 350 intake, and the stock 85 lb9 ecu

although im replaceing it with the 461 fuelies, not fantastic by modern aftermarket head standards, but they are free and great for a budget build

so the 196/202 duration 3.90"/4.10" cam will work with the tpi? cause that would save me like 400 bucks

Psudokiller

ok im going to clear up some confusion in this thread

Engine is a stock l-48 pulled from a 1969 chevelle/impala ss350
ecu is stock lb9 305 tpi
heads WHERE 87 tbi 305 truck heads, NOW are 1966 300hp 327 461 heads that have been race ported
cam is (as far as i know) the stock l-48 cam from 1969
the fuel injection system is stock 87 iroc-z 350

i was saying multi port electronic fuel injection was un-known in 1969 not 1985
you CAN run roller cams in older blocks as long as its a retro-fit cam
they may not be fuelie heads but are pretty good for a budget build
i did not know about the corvette intake being differant, thanks for the info
yes i am using a knock sensor

if the stock l-48 cam will work with the fuel injection ill just keep it in there.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Then all you need is the proper chip. A 350 prom/chip. The 196/202 cam should work out better than the 222/222 cam. I would imagine you would have tons of low end torque with the smaller cam. Are the 327 heads drilled for tpi accesories? Probably a lot easier to use 083 350 heads or even the 113 350 Vette heads made for tpi cars.

Psudokiller

do you mean the alternator and power steering pump, if so i have aftermarket brackets that do not require cylinder head accessory holes i really cant afford to replace the heads and the 327 heads are free

BuzzLOL

.. Sounds like you may already have the 22 lb. injectors, so should be able to get it running OK with the 305 ECM/Prom...
check for codes to see if missing any sensors...
.. Current cam prolly OK... or, as Damon mentioned, Jegs #200102 204/214 or #200103 214/224 cam & lifters kit available for $89.95... Some Howards Cams Z28 valve springs for $25-30/set...

.. Judging from NinetyOne's quote of you above, one of your postings accidentally got deleted...

.. Kind of strange that Olds and Cadillac engines got EFI in 1975, but it took till 1980's for Corvettes to get EFI... maybe the earlier mechanical F.I. left a bad taste in the 'Vette owners' mouths..!

.. I wouldn't say the retro roller cam setups are worth all the big additional costs over an inexpensive hydraulic flat tappet cam setup...

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

You also need to find out if the 87' and later TPI lower manifold will bolt up without any problems. I guess you can always get holes drilled in your manifold.

BuzzLOL

.. If it bolted to the '69 heads, it'll bolt to the '66 heads... sounds like it has already had the 4 bolt holes modified...

Psudokiller

if you mean the center 4, it appears that they have been modified/elongated a bit.

BadSS

Just to clarify points already made by others, if you're running a 305 ecm (programmed for 19# injectors) and you're running injectors and sensors from a 350 TPI (22# injectors), you're either going to have to match the injectors and knock sensor to the ECM or match the ECM PROM/CHIP and knock sensor to the injectors to get it to run right.

Sounds like "tunedperformanc" has an HLH (350 chip) that he might part with, probably reasonably, that would match the PROM to the injectors. I'm not sure if the knock sensor used on the 87 ECM will match up to those used in the 85 350's or not. You need to use the search function and/or google if someone can't clarify that here.

Other chip options include burning your own. Here's a page that has a couple 85 ecm BINs. It also has information on the equipment you'll need to get started burning your own chips.
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/

You could throw money at an aftermarket 1985 350 Vette chip,, but I'd do that as a last resort. Typically they are not much better than running a stock chip with the base timing bumped to around 10* and the fuel pressure increased a couple pounds. This one seems reasonably priced at $80 - as far as "after market" goes. Can't say anything good or bad about this particular brand,,, never heard of them so take a little time to search for some user reviews on Google or this board. Still,,, I'd suggest you spend that money on the equipment to burn your own.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MVC-185082/

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Or you can almost always find a Hypertech or Jet 350 tpi chip a lot easier than the stock 350 one.

Psudokiller

i was just thinking about a mega-squirt fully programmable ecu.

wondering though if i could upgrade it to obd 2 or if it is even worth it, i know it would require some wiring to put the diagnostic port into the harness, but what other modifications could i expect to do?

the reason for the mega-squirt would be because i intend to eventually go radical with the gen 1 sbc or get a ls1 and i don't want to keep replacing/modifying the ecu id rather be able to just re-program it.

any thoughts?

Psudokiller

so apparently the previous owner has informed me that he has already upgraded/modified the ecu to accommodate the 350, how do i tell if he is on the level or just talking sideways?, what do i look for?

BuzzLOL

.. Don't think there is any way to tell other than running it/hooking it up to a laptop...

Psudokiller

he said its the stock ecu but he bought and installed a upgraded chip, is there any way i can find a part number on said chip and find out what it is?, apparently no custom modifications where done on the harness or computer, just the replaced chip.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Well good thing is the ecm will work with either chip 305,350. Of course u need the 350 chip. Take it out and look. There should be some numbers under the plastic cover of the chip. You may need to take the cover off.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Make sure you disconnect neg. battery cable first.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

You may be able to use a laptop and Tunerpro for more info. on the chip u have. You will need an ALDL cable to connect laptop to ecm.

BuzzLOL

.. This could explain "why it was not running right for the old owner"... most of those aftermarket chips create more problems than they solve or improve...

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

You may get some numbers off of the eprom chip under the blue plastic cover. Post what u find, but remember not to expose the chip to uv light.