My stock 87 camaro lb9 305 has a stock TPI,what can I do to the intake runners and plenum that are on it now to get some more power, what is siamese mean when it comes to these how is this done, would love some help thanks.

 

Hi Quick, I to have an 87 IROC with a 305 TPI 700R4. This is what I did to mine and she is putting out about 230-235 horsepower. LT1 cam, Air Foil, Cleaned the ridges out of the front of the plenum, in the process of removing the dents out of the tubes opened them up slightly, K&N Filters, De-shrouded the injectors in the intake and polished, 1.52 Comp Cams roller tip rockers and new springs, Pace Setter Shorty headers, Dynomax high flow exhaust, removed the air pump system, removed the cat, heated o2 sensor.

In my opinion you do not have to go crazy porting and polishing the intake system for a 305 because it get more air than it can use in it's stock configuration, just clean it up some so the air flows smoother. Good luck and remember to have fun with it....Jim

 

So a cam from a350 lt1, heads have 66,000 miles on them think I'll be ok without springs?

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/siameseport

http://sethirdgen.org/TPIbase.htm

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...545-post3.html

 

alright so couple questions, with the lt1 cam can i use my timing chain and all that?
also,
With porting, is it an all or nothing thing, or could i port my plenum and runners and leave the base the same and see some kind of difference?
Thanks

 

Honestly, buy a bigger base and port it along with a better set of runners or switch to a steath ram.
You will maybe pickup a 10th maybe 2 at the track by porting the stock stuff.
Do some searching around on here and ask lots of questions to find out what your end goals are.

 

$750 for the high flo base and runners, even more for the stealth ram,if i get a little bit of a better improvement from the stock stuff then its better than nothing, just wondering if i neeed to port everything or if i just port my runners and plenum would i see something

 

Well port your stock plenum and base. Your looking at a 10th maybe, maybe 2 in the quarter.
The steath ram is fairly cheap. I think around 300$ maybe a bit more?? you just need the intake and fuel rails.

 

could you find me the link for the stealth ram

 

I'm not sure where the camaro guys get em cheap. Do a search on here or google.
I'm a firebird guy with a lower hoodline so I use mini rams.

 

here u go...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WND-7540/

i would go with the stealth ram because the price is good.... just need to get fuel rails.....

 

I can't use my fuel rails ??

 

Why can't I use my fuel rails with the stealth ram

 

Its a completely different design. Do some searching, researching and looking around at pix, you will see and read all you need to...

 

$530
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-534-185/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WND-7540/

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/alte...gal-whats.html

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/...all/index.html

 

I read that the stealth ram makes too much air for a 305, and the car would be unstreetable. Is there any truth to this

 

after the summer im going 350 in the car, id like to put a stealth ram on my 305 now and then switch it when I put the 350 in. but I do not wanna lose torque in the street for now

 

If so why waste time and $$$ playing around with a engine that is comming out.
Just drive and enjoy

 

... that is ridiculous, don't believe it. Air and fuel gives us our horsepower, and we control one to accommodate the other. Having too much air is a good thing, as this allows for more fuel to be injected and burned, thus giving you more horsepower. Now, having too little air, that would be a problem.

 

Thanks, and the stealth ram would go on the 350 anyways,get itt now and not have to worrt about spending more this winter, just one question is can I use my factory prom with the stealth ram without tuning

 

It will run but the tune will be off

 

The TPI was designed for the 305, and is the better match for your displacement. Curing the system of the inherent factory restrictions is your best budget solution for more power, whether switching to a more radical cam or just retaining your current one. Be aware that the size of your cam, and whether you are currently running the stock Mass Air or a later Speed Density setup is going to effect how the computer can compensate for the changes. As for your TPI, the runners should be port matched to the upper plenum and base at a minimum (or use your gaskets as a template and resize both), all transitions smoothed and any rough edging removed, the base smoothed internally of all the rough texture, and all dents removed from your runners. For a 305 the airfoil is not really any help, as stated by SLP in their testing (they don't recommend it's use for anything less than 355 cu in. as proven by dyno testing.) For a street car, the TPI system is a better match for you as it keeps your powerband lower in the RPM range. The Stealth Ram is designed for larger displacements, and much like the LT1/LT4 intake moves the powerband up into the RPM range, sacrificing a lot of low RPM torque for high RPM horsepower. While this trade off is desirable at the track, it isn't as beneficial on the street where you don't typically see high RPM conditions. The typical built street car simply isn't going to see 6000 RPM going stoplight to stoplight. A good example of this is the LT1-style 4.3 L L99 used in mid - late 90's full size cars, such as the Caprice. It used the LT1 intake on a smaller displacement, and had miserable performance.
As already stated, a good flowing exhaust with headers, the fewest restrictions possible, and a modern catalytic converter (it's a $25,000 Federal fine to remove a cat, but only about 1 hp loss for a modern one), K&N filters (or Fram Air Hog from Rock Auto, they're closeout and dirt cheap, and flow better than the K&N's). If you still have earlier perimeter bolt heads then roller rockers are an easy bolt on, and cheap. If you have the '87 up centerbolt heads, then there are few options available for roller rockers that will fit, and tall centerbolt valve covers are anything but cheap (I'm looking for some currently). Instead of the Stealth Ram, you might look into investing in a set of RHS Vortec heads instead. These are proven good for 30-40hp gains straight out of the box, are already machined for the lift of the LT4 Hot Cam, have thicker castings than factory Vortecs to resist cracking, and are drilled for both traditional and Vortec intake bolt patterns. Scoggin-Dickey and Edelbrock both make TPI Vortec base intakes also, with enlarged runners for more airflow and matched to Vortec heads. Combined with aftermarket runners and a ported upper plenum, these heads can feed upwards of 383 cu in without starvation. Keep in mind this setup is still intended for primarily street use, and not a dedicated street/strip car. The other benefit of Vortec heads however is a significant gain in efficiency, meaning a possible 2-4 mpg, as well as the power gains.
Another suggestion is to play with the Comp Cams online dyno at their website, Car Craft tested it with several of their previously real-world dyno tested engines and found it remarkably accurate, erring if anything on the conservative side. It only gives the option of Comp Cams camshafts, but if you use one close to your current or desired profile it will give you a ballpark reading of your build.

 

Not really true at all. Power (mainly torque) comes from the velocity that the air is able to travel through the runners and past the vavles When you have a small displacement like a 305, it's hard for it to fill the volume of runners that are too large....at least until you reach an insane amount of RPMs. That's why you can see a power lose in the low RPM range.

 

That is wrong. First of all, it is wrong to speak of torque as some type of power that is separate from horsepower because horsepower is essentially calculated torque, and they are one and the same when it gets right down to it, so no need to specify one over the other. Secondly, the very fact that the Holley Stealth Ram is "said" to produce more air would underline that velocity is being raised, because that is what velocity does, it speeds up the air charge...

Nonsense! Increasing the diameter of the runners will only shorten the distance of the plenum for the cylinders to draw from, therefore increasing velocity. If one does not tune the fueling in the prom to accommodate the change in the diameter of the runner length, then torque will obviously be lost because the tune will be completely off. Once tuned though, the torque immediately returns and is increased. Your speaking from the more common misconception of slapping on a Holley Stealth Ram while not bothering to tune the fuel. Have you yourself ever bolted on a HSR or LT1 onto a 305? Did you datalog immediately after? Did you increase fuel in the area's that were calling for more? Did you bother to look at the vacuum reading to see if it doubled, or stood hovering at around 18"? What exactly did you do to test your theory to say that I am wrong, implying you know better...?

Once again, your speaking from the perspective of adding a better breathing intake manifold without bothering to change the tune. You simply cannot add more air without increasing the fueling, as the ECM has only enough O2 correction across the board, and that correction is roughly 6%. You can't run the engine lean then say to yourself "oh, the engine lost power because of the diameter of the new runners", that is just plain silly. I run a fully ported and siamesed TPI setup on my 305(s), which flows better than an HSR, and lost no power at all...

 

Once again, your speaking from the perspective of adding a better breathing intake manifold without bothering to change the tune. You simply cannot add more air without increasing the fueling, as the ECM has only enough O2 correction across the board, and that correction is roughly 6%. You can't run the engine lean then say to yourself "oh, the engine lost power because of the diameter of the new runners", that is just plain silly. I run a fully ported and siamesed TPI setup on my 305(s), which flows better than an HSR, and lost no power at all...[/QUOTE]

Actually again, you're wrong. I was talking about tuning the fuel properly after increasing the volume of the runners so drasticly. If you increase the runner volume too much for the displacement of the motor, you WILL lose intake charge velocity and vaccum and will lose low end power and torque. Why do you think that people don't just through in the largest cam that they can fit? Why do you think Nascars and drag cars turn such high RPMs. It's not because it's fun and sounds cool. It's because of the choice of parts that they use. They're heads, cams and intake have such large volumes that they have to spin those kinda revs to get the full power out of them.

And PS, your "modified" TPI setup does flow better then an HSR.

 

No Tom, your wrong, and your credibility is now shot. There is no reason for me to even quote any of what you said above because every point you made is completely moot. Installing a Holley Stealth Ram increases the velocity of the incoming air by shortening the distance between the cylinder head port and the plenum. The flow is more "linear". The diameter and size of the intake valve in the 305 has not changed, only the distance has changed as to where the combustion chamber now pulls the air from the plenum, not to mention the actual cfm rating of the cylinder head hasn't changed either, thus any adverse effect(s) that the Holley Stealth Ram would have on the 305, or ANY engine, for that matter, would be because of the tune being off due to the increased velocity of the air, and not because of, how you described it; "when you have a small displacement like a 305, it's hard for it to fill the volume of runners that are too large", which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You don't even take into consideration the camshaft specifications being used which has a GREAT deal to do with how the increased velocity would effect combustion...

Your research is flawed Tom.

... and? Was that a typo, and did you mean to write that it doesn't?

 

 

This is towards...?

 

You logic is noted. When you put on the biggest runner intake that you can find, and stab in the biggest cam that you can fit, give it your best tune and let me know how that works out for ya

And yes, that was a typo.

 

"You logic"? Is that even English?

Go back to sleep Tom, because your obviously in la la land. When you decide to wake up in the real world, you will understand that a single 1.84" intake valve is pulling air through a stock TPI runner with an individual diameter of 203.17 cfm (1625 cfm total), and/or an individual runner diameter for the Holley Stealth Ram of 275 cfm (2200 cfm total), THROUGH a 48mm throttle body which flows roughly 783 cfm.

Go back to sleep Tommy boy...

 

I didn't realize that CFM was a diameter? At least it isn't here in la la land.

 

The argument. nothing more nothing less.
I have watched people bicker back and forth for years about this.
I know what works and what doesn't, been there done that.
I'm a "more/quality airflow guy" all the way, no matter what size the motor is.
I had a Stock longblock 305 running mid 13s with a ZZ2 cam, slp headers, runners cold air kit and other tricks. That car would of ran 12s with a non slipping trans. It would have flew with better heads and short runner intake if they were out back then.. Oh, stock untuned "350" chip running 24 lb inj. Would it have been faster with a tune? u bet.

 

I hate arguing with members, I really do. Tom doesn't even want to stop to address what it is that I am saying. In my opinion, a 1000-cfm throttle body on a stock 305 Tuned Port Injected engine is way more overkill than putting a Holley Stealth Ram on top of that same 305 Tuned Port Injected w/the stock 48mm throttle body. I'm trying to show Tom that although the Holley Stealth Ram is huge compared to the stock Tuned Port Injection setup, both setups are still subjected to pulling air through a tiny throttle body, so the torque isn't as effected as he is really trying to imply, we just need to tune our fuel because the power band is raised with a better flowing intake because volume and velocity is increased...

I didn't even see this comment of yours. You can typo all you want, as I am sure you have had plenty of them since day one. My siamesed Tuned Port Injection setup will flow more than a Holley Stealth Ram, not to mention faster. It's ported to the max, and each intake port on the cylinder head now draws its' air from two runners, and not just one. I will gladly post before and after pictures from the plenum on down. What will you post up, aside from speculation...?

 

i love how these end up in pissing matches.

 

Against the wind.....

 

No pissing match on this end