Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
08-13-2013, 06:38 PM
#51
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
So here's an offer:
I'll sit down at a table across from you, nothing more than a pencil, and test TPI setup, WHERE-EVER you want, for as much $$ as you want. Objective AND subjective testing.
STANDING OFFER. MADE IT BEFORE, MAKING IT AGAIN.
08-14-2013, 08:53 PM
#52
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Ok been busy guys. haven't had time and wont till this weekend. thursday night hopefully for datalog. But i will finish this thread !
So i will be using tuner pro rt for the first time any sugestions for a noob on data loging?
Thanks again guys!
So i will be using tuner pro rt for the first time any sugestions for a noob on data loging?
Thanks again guys!
08-19-2013, 11:58 AM
#53
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Tuning there's a sticky on tuning bord
08-20-2013, 10:55 PM
#54
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
ok an update......a weak update lol been busy.
I tried hooking up my aldl cable (to usb) to use either winaldl or tuner pro. I have had no success with either.
1. was able to sucessfully install drivers for cable and assign to comport. (com5) and tried to change com port (com2 com) 1 with no success getting data to either program.
2. i assigned the program to the com port as suggested in instructions for both programs. And loaded acquisition file
3. Tuner pro will not recognize aldl cable (says connecting for long time) after i click blue arrows.
4. read instructions top to bottom tried reinstalling with no success. tried doing things in different order also
could my cable be defective?
Also i forgot to mention i cannot find a gas cap that fits properly the closest i can get is one that goes on but very tight and awkward. would this cause a running issue?
I tried hooking up my aldl cable (to usb) to use either winaldl or tuner pro. I have had no success with either.
1. was able to sucessfully install drivers for cable and assign to comport. (com5) and tried to change com port (com2 com) 1 with no success getting data to either program.
2. i assigned the program to the com port as suggested in instructions for both programs. And loaded acquisition file
3. Tuner pro will not recognize aldl cable (says connecting for long time) after i click blue arrows.
4. read instructions top to bottom tried reinstalling with no success. tried doing things in different order also
could my cable be defective?
Also i forgot to mention i cannot find a gas cap that fits properly the closest i can get is one that goes on but very tight and awkward. would this cause a running issue?
08-21-2013, 02:14 PM
#59
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
So doing some research and the answer is unclear to me about the jumper. I think jumper is to be pulled of whil initiating testing then afterwards plugged in again? will try tonight.
08-21-2013, 02:49 PM
#60
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
If you purchased the cable from red devil river send him a email, you can allways back probe a to b with a 10k resister to start data flow. Once a connection is established the resister can be removed. Some cable manufactures have a jumper setting on the cable others use a switch.
08-21-2013, 06:41 PM
#61
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Hi all,
I vote injectors.
I had a similar situation that was solved with new injectors from SouthBay (4 of 8 original injectors were leaking/dripping). I also upgraded to a heated O2 at the same time. Then set up the TPS and idle very carefully. My data logging showed BLM and INT values trying to lean out the mixture while still getting code 44 (lean condition)...counter-intuitive, no? I had black smoke/exhaust so rich that it burned my eyes.
Hope this helps.
I vote injectors.
I had a similar situation that was solved with new injectors from SouthBay (4 of 8 original injectors were leaking/dripping). I also upgraded to a heated O2 at the same time. Then set up the TPS and idle very carefully. My data logging showed BLM and INT values trying to lean out the mixture while still getting code 44 (lean condition)...counter-intuitive, no? I had black smoke/exhaust so rich that it burned my eyes.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by skibum2100; 08-21-2013 at 07:04 PM.
08-21-2013, 07:41 PM
#62
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Did you ever figure out your low oil pressure reading? If not you might want to try a new oil pressure switch. I swapped mine out years ago and it read about 10-15 psi lower. Swapped to another one and it went back to normal.
08-21-2013, 09:49 PM
#63
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
I will consider all the posts above. I will be doing full testing this weekend and hopefully datalog.
I guess i have the pita ecu to datalog so we will see how it goes
I will be checking
ops
esc
distributor and components
complete fuel pressure test now that i understand the procedure
the injectors should be good i had this prior to replacing the injectors. but i guess all find out.
I going to try and find away to block of the ninth cs injector as it appears to be original. could be why im running rich with a code 44
I guess i have the pita ecu to datalog so we will see how it goes
I will be checking
ops
esc
distributor and components
complete fuel pressure test now that i understand the procedure
the injectors should be good i had this prior to replacing the injectors. but i guess all find out.
I going to try and find away to block of the ninth cs injector as it appears to be original. could be why im running rich with a code 44
08-22-2013, 12:18 AM
#64
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Un plug 9th injector but I think injector(s) is your problem. On cold start do the oil pressure high and as it heat up it drops
08-22-2013, 05:47 PM
#65
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
The oil pressure drops as it gets warmer.
Also i did replace the injectors with bosh III. I dont think its a fuel injector problem because when i unplug the est wire it idles steady and i got a nice deep tone coming out of the tailpipes.
Also i did replace the injectors with bosh III. I dont think its a fuel injector problem because when i unplug the est wire it idles steady and i got a nice deep tone coming out of the tailpipes.
08-22-2013, 06:05 PM
#66
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Did u preform the fuel pressure test. I have the same problem with my car (oil) and I was told its a spring to bleed of pressure stuck.
08-22-2013, 10:06 PM
#67
08-23-2013, 01:53 PM
#68
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
When you unplug the EST is it still running really rich? I believe unplugging the EST cuts the ECM out of the picture, ie. spark advance and IACV, it just runs on defaults during this time. Have you had any luck pulling a data stream from the ECM yet?
Last edited by skibum2100; 08-23-2013 at 02:01 PM. Reason: grammar
08-25-2013, 05:19 PM
#70
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Car: 1987 IROC-Z red t-top
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Ok I was unsure about the oil thing which sensor the one on to or the one on the side of motor
08-25-2013, 10:46 PM
#71
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
No luck data streaming whatsoever Getting very little response fro red devil river via ebay.
Replaced Esc unit on firewall no change in conditions.
Fuel pressure readings when i fire it up are about 38psi when i rev it it goes to about 45
when i pinch the line the pressure goes up to 60 psi then whe i shut the engine of it stays @ 60 psi until i unpinch the line . When i unpinch the line it goes down to about 40 and stays for a period of time. seems all fuel systems normal.
Question is fuel pressure supposed to go up when i rev is this normal?
Funny thing when i start the car cold it runs fine for for a few minutes.
Replaced Esc unit on firewall no change in conditions.
Fuel pressure readings when i fire it up are about 38psi when i rev it it goes to about 45
when i pinch the line the pressure goes up to 60 psi then whe i shut the engine of it stays @ 60 psi until i unpinch the line . When i unpinch the line it goes down to about 40 and stays for a period of time. seems all fuel systems normal.
Question is fuel pressure supposed to go up when i rev is this normal?
Funny thing when i start the car cold it runs fine for for a few minutes.
08-26-2013, 07:56 AM
#73
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Yep, your fuel pressure should increase when you rev the engine. Sounds like the fuel system is fine.
When the car starts and is cold it is in open loop operation and it is running on factory defaults. When it warms up it goes into closed loop operation and the ECM starts correcting the fuel/spark/IAC. Sounds like your problem starts when the ECM enters closed loop operation. We will have to see the data stream and look for a value that doesn't change or doesn't make sense.
If you are still having problems with your OBD1 cable, I was able to build one with items from Raido Shakc for less than 10 bucks. If you can use a soldering iron you can make an OBD1 cable. Check out the following link...
http://winaldl.joby.se/
Hope this helps.
When the car starts and is cold it is in open loop operation and it is running on factory defaults. When it warms up it goes into closed loop operation and the ECM starts correcting the fuel/spark/IAC. Sounds like your problem starts when the ECM enters closed loop operation. We will have to see the data stream and look for a value that doesn't change or doesn't make sense.
If you are still having problems with your OBD1 cable, I was able to build one with items from Raido Shakc for less than 10 bucks. If you can use a soldering iron you can make an OBD1 cable. Check out the following link...
http://winaldl.joby.se/
Hope this helps.
Last edited by skibum2100; 08-26-2013 at 07:58 AM. Reason: completeness
09-01-2013, 08:40 PM
#74
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Ok did a little work got a little better performance but not much
i changed all the vacuum hoses esc modual on firewall.
Still rough idle when warm with slight raising in rpm
Got a question my oil pressure gauge is reading in the red. pretty sure the car would run allot worse if this were the case. this is after it warms up while cold it read 32 psi
Also noticed and forgot to mention(somtimes) slight bucking in first gear could this have to do with the distributor or and its componets?
i changed all the vacuum hoses esc modual on firewall.
Still rough idle when warm with slight raising in rpm
Got a question my oil pressure gauge is reading in the red. pretty sure the car would run allot worse if this were the case. this is after it warms up while cold it read 32 psi
Also noticed and forgot to mention(somtimes) slight bucking in first gear could this have to do with the distributor or and its componets?
09-01-2013, 09:19 PM
#76
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Another also
with the est plugged in the timing mark (12oclock position on crank shaft pully) on crankshaft does jump with idle change
with the est plugged in the timing mark (12oclock position on crank shaft pully) on crankshaft does jump with idle change
09-01-2013, 11:13 PM
#77
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Timing to high mine was like that. I had a vacuum leak, I didn't find out till I pulled the motor out.
09-01-2013, 11:21 PM
#78
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
timing is good no vacumme leaks . Est unplugged it doesnt jump at all at is at 6 gegrees im got a feeling its the dam Oil pressure switch causing this or the egr valve
will do more tomorrow
will do more tomorrow
09-03-2013, 09:02 AM
#79
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Unplugging the EGR while idling in park will not set a CEL light.
Did you ever have any luck with the ALDL cable?
Did you ever have any luck with the ALDL cable?
09-04-2013, 09:10 AM
#80
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Make a vid showing the problems and doing all the things to check.
10-05-2013, 08:38 PM
#81
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
OK FINALLY I CAN DATALOG!
got xdl file after engine been running a few minutes but i cant upload xdl on here so i dont know how to relay the info to the site to troouble shoot my problem any help would be great
will do a cold to hot data log tomarrow
put in new dist. iac, mat, ignition coil just to rule out those componets. like i said fuel pressure is good to go also
got xdl file after engine been running a few minutes but i cant upload xdl on here so i dont know how to relay the info to the site to troouble shoot my problem any help would be great
will do a cold to hot data log tomarrow
put in new dist. iac, mat, ignition coil just to rule out those componets. like i said fuel pressure is good to go also
10-14-2013, 05:37 PM
#83
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
whoops would help if i attached files huh
just a note.. the rich/lean bounces back and forth between lean and rich constantly.
pics in order start up, entering closed loop and warmed up. hope this helps
also want to note all my sensors are new except knock, egr good , ne distributor , dist coil, wire plugs yada yada
just a note.. the rich/lean bounces back and forth between lean and rich constantly.
pics in order start up, entering closed loop and warmed up. hope this helps
also want to note all my sensors are new except knock, egr good , ne distributor , dist coil, wire plugs yada yada
Last edited by lethaldomestics; 10-14-2013 at 05:41 PM. Reason: wrong
10-20-2013, 09:32 PM
#86
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Just curious what was your issue with the cable?
10-21-2013, 08:16 AM
#87
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Glad to hear you had some luck.
I am also glad to hear the O2 value is bouncing back and forth, above and below 0.457V, that is normal behavior, it will never stay still while running.
However the TPS is too high, it should be at 0.54V at idle. You need to set the TPS to that. Once you have set TPS to 0.54V, you may want to reset the minimum idle. Search for the procedure (note: many people may advise against this. The theory is that the factory set the minimum idle and covered it with an aluminum plug to keep you/me from messing with it).
How is the IAC valve...new, clean, or dirty?
Hope this helps.
I am also glad to hear the O2 value is bouncing back and forth, above and below 0.457V, that is normal behavior, it will never stay still while running.
However the TPS is too high, it should be at 0.54V at idle. You need to set the TPS to that. Once you have set TPS to 0.54V, you may want to reset the minimum idle. Search for the procedure (note: many people may advise against this. The theory is that the factory set the minimum idle and covered it with an aluminum plug to keep you/me from messing with it).
How is the IAC valve...new, clean, or dirty?
Hope this helps.
10-24-2013, 02:40 PM
#88
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
yeah all sensors new except knock. new iac and distributor coil. wires plugs relays yada yada yada
my aldl usb port cable was defective. sent it back to reddevil and they replaced it no problem
so yes i think i nailed it down to an interment maf problem as i had tore apart the maf harness, which at first glance appears ok, but after taking the loom and about a mile of tape i found wires connected by being twisted together instead of soldered or put together using connecter. one wire was even held together by one strand of wire. this could be causing my maf code
Still not sure if this is the problem as i still have rough idle in open loop and also while maf is unplugged but i will fix this weekend anyways and up date.
tps while key off is at .54 then jumps to .59 at idle.
one of my concern is the fluctuation of maf numbers . sometimes hits 7k
this has become irritating but i love this dam car.
my aldl usb port cable was defective. sent it back to reddevil and they replaced it no problem
so yes i think i nailed it down to an interment maf problem as i had tore apart the maf harness, which at first glance appears ok, but after taking the loom and about a mile of tape i found wires connected by being twisted together instead of soldered or put together using connecter. one wire was even held together by one strand of wire. this could be causing my maf code
Still not sure if this is the problem as i still have rough idle in open loop and also while maf is unplugged but i will fix this weekend anyways and up date.
tps while key off is at .54 then jumps to .59 at idle.
one of my concern is the fluctuation of maf numbers . sometimes hits 7k
this has become irritating but i love this dam car.
Last edited by lethaldomestics; 10-24-2013 at 02:44 PM. Reason: edit
10-25-2013, 08:35 AM
#90
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
You need to test both lines rather than just return, could be leaking check ball in pump rather than just regulator, still leakdown with both lines pinched means leakin injectors
12-29-2013, 04:52 AM
#91
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
All new sensors. new distributor, fuel pressure good (thorough test) , timing chain good no wet or hot plugs ECU good
I think i have a valve issue when i was cranking the motor by hand i noticed compression seeping from the valve area, valve covers off. is this normal?
i also think i am stabbing the distributor incorrectly. eventhough i had the issue before even removing the original distributor. When i got motor @ top dead center and put in the dist. i cant get the rotor to line up with the usual #1 plug wire diode thingy on the dist. cap, so i have to turn the cap 1/4 + turn so the rotor lines up with #1. so in other words i cant get the cap to line up perfectly? is this a problem?
since im going through everything ,just in case, i took out the engine wiring harness to check for problems and make sure grounds are good and replace things as needed. she going up for sale soon i know isaid that longago but dammit im tired
I think i have a valve issue when i was cranking the motor by hand i noticed compression seeping from the valve area, valve covers off. is this normal?
i also think i am stabbing the distributor incorrectly. eventhough i had the issue before even removing the original distributor. When i got motor @ top dead center and put in the dist. i cant get the rotor to line up with the usual #1 plug wire diode thingy on the dist. cap, so i have to turn the cap 1/4 + turn so the rotor lines up with #1. so in other words i cant get the cap to line up perfectly? is this a problem?
since im going through everything ,just in case, i took out the engine wiring harness to check for problems and make sure grounds are good and replace things as needed. she going up for sale soon i know isaid that longago but dammit im tired
06-06-2017, 08:59 PM
#92
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Ok here we go
1987 firbird tpi 305 700r4 ttops Badass looking.
Has an idle issue were the idle hunts around between 650 to 1100 rpm and has significant loss of power. has a gas smell coming from exhaust
this problem appeared out of know were
what i know ........ oil pressure is at about 15 on cluster gauge after warm up. i have heard this is low. But i also know theses thing are inaccurate. goes to about 30 at 2000 rpm When its warm sometimes it takes allot of turns to get it to fire up
The pcv valve makes a rattling noise when car idles and is brand new. i have changed it twice. still no change.
Got a code 44 Lean exhaust o2 sensor. o2 sensor is brand new. Code went away... randomly
No vacuume leaks . checked with carb cleaner
***UPDATE: ALL SENSORS NEW
what I've changed since the problem started.
02 sensor, plugs, plug wires, fuel injectors, cts, tps, maf, Oil pressure sending unit . IAC new! all manifold gaskets.
fuel press. regulator good and
**Get this... when I unplug the EST wire she idles perfect no hunting or loping idle.**
So i am thinking that it has something to do with the distributor .
I love this car i really do but i keep having issues. she might have to go.
any ideas?
1987 firbird tpi 305 700r4 ttops Badass looking.
Has an idle issue were the idle hunts around between 650 to 1100 rpm and has significant loss of power. has a gas smell coming from exhaust
this problem appeared out of know were
what i know ........ oil pressure is at about 15 on cluster gauge after warm up. i have heard this is low. But i also know theses thing are inaccurate. goes to about 30 at 2000 rpm When its warm sometimes it takes allot of turns to get it to fire up
The pcv valve makes a rattling noise when car idles and is brand new. i have changed it twice. still no change.
Got a code 44 Lean exhaust o2 sensor. o2 sensor is brand new. Code went away... randomly
No vacuume leaks . checked with carb cleaner
***UPDATE: ALL SENSORS NEW
what I've changed since the problem started.
02 sensor, plugs, plug wires, fuel injectors, cts, tps, maf, Oil pressure sending unit . IAC new! all manifold gaskets.
fuel press. regulator good and
**Get this... when I unplug the EST wire she idles perfect no hunting or loping idle.**
So i am thinking that it has something to do with the distributor .
I love this car i really do but i keep having issues. she might have to go.
any ideas?
Last edited by PSA; 06-06-2017 at 09:02 PM. Reason: forgot a sentence
06-06-2017, 11:15 PM
#93
Senior Member
Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
My GTA was doing the exact same thing down to a T. Mine was caused from a very dirty tank and a crusty fuel filter letting trash clog up 2 fuel injectors. So a fuel tank cleaning, fuel pump replacement a new filter and a new set of injectors later it runs like a dream. My car has the same engine/trans combo you have. But my car also sit neglected in a field for around 10 years also. Don't rule out mechanical failure either, do a compression test on all cylinders.
06-19-2017, 08:54 PM
#94
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Re: Stuck in TPI hell. Please help ! Info heavy.
Hey sprry fpr the late reply, i was out of town... i might have the same problem as you but i think it could also be my timing! it was set at 8deg advanced and should be at 6. But my harmonic balancer for some reason doesnt have the notch on it so i cant read it very well... if i put a tape on it with a mark would that work or does it have to be a certain location?? by the way what is your set up? is it fuel injected by any chance? because i built my engine a while ago and also my car has been sitting in a garage for a while so im trying to get my timing done but its kind of hard since firstly my fuel rail is in the way of the distributor wire plugs so i cant movie it properly to adjust the timing, and now its off and backfiring from the exhaust. i did a compression test im at 130psi in all cylinders. Im trying to get the timing set any suggestions on setting it without the mark on the balancer?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
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