NEED HELP PLEASE READ
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
NEED HELP PLEASE READ
I have an 87 350 TPI and I’m having a hard time finding some parts. I found an 84 305 carb for sale in my area. I need a MAP sensor. Is it compatible with my 350 or am I dreaming ?
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
My 87 has both a MAF and MAP sensor. I replaced the MAF. I need a MAP sensor
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
I have no clue man. I just know my 87 350 TPI has both sensors and I need a MAP sensor which I can’t find here in Toronto
Trending Topics
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
The car was originally a 305 with a T5 tranny and was swapped to a 350 with the T5 lol but it’s always been a TPi cause it’s an 87
#10
Sponsor
iTrader: (92)
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
Good luck finding a map, no map here !
http://chevythunder.com/maf_code_33.htm
http://chevythunder.com/maf_code_33.htm
Last edited by Tuned Performance; 04-11-2018 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Link to mad schematic
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
So your telling me the 350 87 TPI doesn’t have a MAP sensor ? Cause one is there but it doesn’t look like it’s connected.
#14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
Well it’s in the shop right now and the mechanic told me I needed one. Right now when my car is cold it bogs down and doesn’t want to move and only moves when it’s hot and is running Rich. He saying it’s the MAP sensor
#16
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
He’s saying it’s the MAP sensor. But he’s saying the vacuum lines are connected. I bought the car already swapped. I got no clue what’s actually going on lol
#18
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
#21
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
he’s closed now but when I spoke with him earlier he said it was a code 33 or 34. The OBDH1 said it was the MAP sensor according to him. Mind you this is a new mechanic I’m using and I don’t know how reliable he is.
#22
Sponsor
iTrader: (92)
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
I’d pull the car from the shop codes for Maf high and maf low.
http://www.chevythunder.com/maf_code_34.htm
http://www.chevythunder.com/maf_code_34.htm
#23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
I’d pull the car from the shop codes for Maf high and maf low.
http://www.chevythunder.com/maf_code_34.htm
http://www.chevythunder.com/maf_code_34.htm
#24
Supreme Member
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
If its a map sensor issue which it doesnt sound like, its the same part as the one on the GM trucks, which are everywhere, including new at the parts stores
#25
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
well here is the whole story.. mechanic says the MAP sensor which is current in the vehicle look to be just sitting there. The wire running to it is detached and the hoses that are supposed to run to it are detached to. Now my car is running rich and when it’s cold doesn’t want to move. It hesitates and stalls. The car only moves if the car I hot. My mechanic explained that happened because the car is in a bypass mode because the sensor is missing. Now I’m no mechanic... but from the sounds of it ( not sure of you read the thread) there is no MAP sensor for this motor, mostly because it was swapped to a 350 from a 305.
#26
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
What issue could is be ? I had him change the whole distributor and sparks plugs and MAF sensor. I haven’t driven the car yet tho because it’s still in the shop so I don’t know if the problem is still occurring
#27
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
If this was originally a carbed engine there would have been a MAP. Carbs were available in '87. As has been stated earlier, if it had been swapped to TPI there might still be a MAP on the firewall - unnecessary, of course.
It would help a lot to know what ECM is installed.
It would help a lot to know what ECM is installed.
#28
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
that would explain it. I don’t know what the original engine was I just know it was 305
#29
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
It sounds like when the engines were swapped that it went from a carb with a MAP sensor to a TPI with a MAF sensor, but the engine computer (ECM) doesn't recognize the MAF. It's still looking for the MAP readings which this fuel injection system doesn't use. Sounds like you should either tell Tuned Performance what ECM you have (the mechanic can tell you if you ask him. It sits behind the kick panel by the passenger's feet). Tuned Performance is one of the go-to guys on here for ECM/tuning information. With the part number from that he can probably tell you if you need a different PROM chip or ECM or what. That would be my next step. I'm used to be a certified mechanic but i've let my certs go and stopped working in that field except on the side. I have agreed with everything that Tuned Performance has said. 1 of those 2 sensors can go, but since the MAF came with the fuel injection system, I would stick with that rather than the MAP sensor.
#30
Sponsor
iTrader: (92)
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
I’m guessing you have a 1227165 ecm, Diagnoise the maf issue to see if it cures the rich condition. Another factor once the maf codes are fixed you might check the body of the injectors to see if they have been swapped from 19#hr to 22#hr. If they have been swapped and the ecm still has a 305 chip in it . That would cause it to run slightly rich.
#31
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
This type of MAP sensor sits inside the intake manifold. And from what my guy was saying it makes alittle more sense to me. It’s just a clip on that has 2 vaccume hoses to it. I’m replacing it. Going to see what happens.
#32
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
Tuned Performance, excuse my possible brain fart, but if they add bigger injectors that would add more fuel. Adding more fuel would mean that it would be running a richer mixture correct?? He's already saying that he's running rich. He would want more air to lean out the mixture. Or have I just been out of the game too long and i'm swapping rich and lean in my mind?? Plus, he stated that he already replaced the MAF and nothing changed. I still think that the ECM is searching for the MAP readings because it's the wrong ECM for his new engine that has the MAF on it. Would he need to replace the ECM or possibly just the PROM chip?
#33
Sponsor
iTrader: (92)
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
If they swapped out the injectors with 350 injectors 22#hr.
The ecm might be programmed for 19#hr 305 injectors. This would cause a rich condition.
He might have a bad ecm. I would start with the trouble tree for 33 and 34 codes and see where it leads. I have heard of guys running a 305 chip and even 19#hr injectors on a 350 without a issue although that combination would be a lean mixture.
Sounds like the mechanic might be talking about the mat or iat same thing just different names. This is located underneath the plenum in the rear. Iirc a low air temp would be a richer mixture. It’s hard to say what’s done to the 350 or if the suffix and casting are really from a 350.
I would check that out before throwing parts at it like injectors or a tune.you would be able to tell if it has a tune in it bye the letters on the prom or if it’s a Hypertech the part number.
The ecm might be programmed for 19#hr 305 injectors. This would cause a rich condition.
He might have a bad ecm. I would start with the trouble tree for 33 and 34 codes and see where it leads. I have heard of guys running a 305 chip and even 19#hr injectors on a 350 without a issue although that combination would be a lean mixture.
Sounds like the mechanic might be talking about the mat or iat same thing just different names. This is located underneath the plenum in the rear. Iirc a low air temp would be a richer mixture. It’s hard to say what’s done to the 350 or if the suffix and casting are really from a 350.
I would check that out before throwing parts at it like injectors or a tune.you would be able to tell if it has a tune in it bye the letters on the prom or if it’s a Hypertech the part number.
#34
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
Ah. Ok. Thanks for the reminder. I can see how that could cause a rich condition now. There's definitely too many factors that could lead to this. I hope his mechanic is willing to deviate from only wanting to replace the MAP sensor and check these other things.
#35
Sponsor
iTrader: (92)
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
I hope so to. The last thing he needs is a mechanic who is a parts changer.
You might need to find another shop or learn to diagnose it yourself.
Lots of good comments and suggestions on this thread. I would suspect the ecm but that’s just a guess following the flow chart would be the best bet.
If the mechanic watches the grams per second at idle to see the maf airflow it should be 7-9
Grams per second.
Code 33 sets when flow exceeds 45 gps below 2k rpm and 1/4 throttle.
The ecm has a 5v pull-up on the signal wire. If the signal voltage is 2.2v or higher for 1 second code 33 will throw.
You might need to find another shop or learn to diagnose it yourself.
Lots of good comments and suggestions on this thread. I would suspect the ecm but that’s just a guess following the flow chart would be the best bet.
If the mechanic watches the grams per second at idle to see the maf airflow it should be 7-9
Grams per second.
Code 33 sets when flow exceeds 45 gps below 2k rpm and 1/4 throttle.
The ecm has a 5v pull-up on the signal wire. If the signal voltage is 2.2v or higher for 1 second code 33 will throw.
#36
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
I'm still wondering if the ECM even sees the MAF sensor or if it's still waiting for the MAP sensor to show something??
Zutz,
Did this just start happening or has it been happening since you bought the car? From what I have read, this car had an 84 carb with a MAP sensor initially and you (or the last owner) swapped in an 87 350 TPI setup?? If that's true, did the 87 setup have a MAP or a MAF setup when it was in the last car? If so, I doubt that the ECM is even looking for MAF as it wouldn't know what it or how to read it because it's expecting to see a MAP sensor and use its reading in terms of how to richen/lean out the fuel mixture. If I remember correctly.
Zutz,
Did this just start happening or has it been happening since you bought the car? From what I have read, this car had an 84 carb with a MAP sensor initially and you (or the last owner) swapped in an 87 350 TPI setup?? If that's true, did the 87 setup have a MAP or a MAF setup when it was in the last car? If so, I doubt that the ECM is even looking for MAF as it wouldn't know what it or how to read it because it's expecting to see a MAP sensor and use its reading in terms of how to richen/lean out the fuel mixture. If I remember correctly.
#38
Supreme Member
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
This would all be solved if someone (including mechanic) would just yank the computer from the dash and have a looksee lol
#39
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
I'm still wondering if the ECM even sees the MAF sensor or if it's still waiting for the MAP sensor to show something??
Zutz,
Did this just start happening or has it been happening since you bought the car? From what I have read, this car had an 84 carb with a MAP sensor initially and you (or the last owner) swapped in an 87 350 TPI setup?? If that's true, did the 87 setup have a MAP or a MAF setup when it was in the last car? If so, I doubt that the ECM is even looking for MAF as it wouldn't know what it or how to read it because it's expecting to see a MAP sensor and use its reading in terms of how to richen/lean out the fuel mixture. If I remember correctly.
Zutz,
Did this just start happening or has it been happening since you bought the car? From what I have read, this car had an 84 carb with a MAP sensor initially and you (or the last owner) swapped in an 87 350 TPI setup?? If that's true, did the 87 setup have a MAP or a MAF setup when it was in the last car? If so, I doubt that the ECM is even looking for MAF as it wouldn't know what it or how to read it because it's expecting to see a MAP sensor and use its reading in terms of how to richen/lean out the fuel mixture. If I remember correctly.
The guy i bought it from swapped the motor. He told me it was originally manual with a 305, he didn’t state if it was a carb or not. Considering the car is an 87 GTA I would assume it was a TPI 305, I was searching to see if the 87s came in carb 305 and I found nothing. I did how ever talk to my mechanic because he has a 94 camaro and a 96. He was telling me the MAP sensor in the intake manifold needs to be replaced. He also did tell me that the 87 I have will also show an error code of 33 when the MAP sensor isn’t working.
But just so the thread knows I did a tune up to the car
i replaced spark plugs
MAF sensor
MAP sensor
cap rotor and distributor
all breaks rotors and calipers
flex hoses
belts
and Ebrake cables
I’m just waiting to hear back from my guy. I’m having him work on the car slowly considering it’s not weather yet here in Toronto to drive the damn thing.
#40
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
Look at the vehicle's VIN. If the eighth character is "G" it was made with the 305 4BBL (lG4) engine. Lots of those were made, and many of them were for Canada.
#41
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
If your mechanic can find a MAP on the intake of a stock '87 TPI I'll buy lunch for BOTH of you.
He's apparently confusing the LT1 with the TPI. I have both, so I can understand his confusion/lack of memory.
He's apparently confusing the LT1 with the TPI. I have both, so I can understand his confusion/lack of memory.
#42
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
But for he sack of the argument I hope he find it cause I could use a decent lunch lmao I will check the vin when I see the car this week. Thanks for the knowledge though cause I didn’t know about the vin.
#43
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
You can run your VIN and check to find out what the original engine and fuel injection setup was. That way, you know what the original setup was. Also, you still need that ECM and EPROM part numbers to try to see whether or not you need the MAF or MAP sensor. And since replacing both sensors hasn’t fixed it, it’s pretty much 1 or the other of them or a wiring issue from the sounds of it.
#44
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
You can run your VIN and check to find out what the original engine and fuel injection setup was. That way, you know what the original setup was. Also, you still need that ECM and EPROM part numbers to try to see whether or not you need the MAF or MAP sensor. And since replacing both sensors hasn’t fixed it, it’s pretty much 1 or the other of them or a wiring issue from the sounds of it.
#45
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
Ok so to further this along I just got my car back. 1300$ later it finally stops. Now my mechanic did a once over and there is NO map sensor like you guys have all been saying. But when he car is cold it runs like absolute garbage! It won’t go over 3500 RPM. My engine light is still on.
I replaced the MAF sensor
plugs
cap rotor and distributor
tightened all belts.
Wtf is going on with my car ? I need the cold studders BC to stop it’s really annoying me now
I replaced the MAF sensor
plugs
cap rotor and distributor
tightened all belts.
Wtf is going on with my car ? I need the cold studders BC to stop it’s really annoying me now
#46
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
Did he check the oxygen sensor and the coolant temperature sensor?? There are 2 coolant temperature sensors in your car. 1 for the ecm and 1 for the gauge If you have a temperature gauge on your dash. But if either of their readings are off, that could cause fuel mixture issues until the ecm went into closed loop. Also, if you bang on your catalytic converters do you hear stuff moving around inside of it? Could be a clogged car but that would happen all the time and cause bad acceleration no matter whether it’s hot or cold.
#47
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
Well the car is still saying error code 33. My gauges are good. But the car still won’t preform normally until it’s blazing hot
#48
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
This would be a good time for Tuned Performance to chime back in since he knows a lot more about codes than I can remember off the top of my head. I would want to see a troubleshooting chart for that specific code at this point. Have you tried googling that code to see if there's a flowchart online? You might also find more people with that code on here if you try searching for it.
#49
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
Did you replace the MAF or did the mechanic? If the mechanic did it, ask him if he still has the original sensor. If so, look through the middle of the sensor where the air flows, do they look the same? If not, there's a possibility that the new sensor doesn't use a burnoff relay and the wiring is slightly different. I just read that in another thread. The other question I would ask him is if he checked the IAC sensor as that seems to be another possible culprit. Do a search in the "TPI" forum for code 33. I found several threads about 5-10 down from the top that had some info. I'd still like to see the diagnostic flowchart for it though.
#50
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car: 87 trans am
Engine: 5.7 swap
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: NEED HELP PLEASE READ
I have the sensor so I’ll check but literally I did all that work and the problem hasn’t changed