u r sofa king we tah did

yeah right, like thats gonna happen. the only threads i ever see get closed or locked is when a moderator doesnt seem to like the opinion on the topic of discussion. and isnt it damn ironic that the topic went off topic in the first place because of the moderators.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

This thread is still on topic... The original question is why isn't the Tram being produced. The answer is that there is no market. There is no market cause people that own cars that could use a Tram don't have any money, or choose not to spend the money on a part. Just about every post to this thread is either explaining why there isnt a market, or debating somethign similar.

Thirdgen owners in general are cheap. If you yourself aren't cheap, then don't take offense to it.

Want some proof that thirdgenners are cheap? Drive thru a trailer park and count thirdgens with multicolored body parts, incorrect wheels, up on blocks or jackstands, with trashbags taped over windows, etc... I'm not saying that everyone on this board has a ******, listens to Megadeth, and sleeps with their sister. I'm just saying that the garden variety thirdgen owner is cheap.

Does anyone really want a Tram? I think it would be nice if they were in production, but I don't have the money to buy one if they were available. And I'm not sure I would buy one because I think the stock TPI system will carry me farther than I'll be going anywhere soon. If people want the Tram they need to get organized, put together a list of 100 people that want one, and find out what people would put down as a deposit, and submit that information to someone at SLP and see what they say.

u r sofa king we tah did

lmao, that was actually pretty funny. but looks can be very deceiving. i drove around my iroc during its restore process with a red front driver fender, white passenger front fender, white front bumper, red hood, sanded down doors and primer rear for about 6 months since i did the restore while i was still driving it around. it would surprise the hell out of LT1s and LS1 cars when i would blow them away in a "junker". you just gotta be carefull who you "think" are the cheap ones and the ones who just look cheap. i personally have a new respect for cars that you see being drove around primered and such, just because i now know the potential situation that the owner and car may be going through.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

That can go for any Gen, M*****gs, or pretty much anything. They are not the majority.

u r sofa king we tah did

yep

Guest

That cant be right! *rubs eyes*

Man, if that intake is really that price, my hat is off to Holley. I guess I have to contact them and find out, if its that much I am ordering one.

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

If third genners are so "cheap" and are looked at as mostly "white trash", then why the hell did you buy one? Oh and BTW... I listen to Megadeth, so am I white trash now too? I dont know who the hell you guys think you are, but Im really starting to get disgusted with all this ****ing bull ****.

topdown

Chalk me up for Megadeath, too. Stereotyping is ignorance!

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

"The quote I got for the new Holley Stealth Ram was,$265 for the manifold,and $155 for the fuel rail. I'm just waiting to see some real numbers before I order it."

WHAT?!?!

If that's what its gonna be, (which would be incredible) its what many have been looking for.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

so thirdgen owners are typically trash?

The same could be said then for mustangs and ricers. Hell i've seen trashy vette owners.

To stereotype us is ****in ridiculous.

Drew you ignorance once again shows again. This whole "cheap" things is getting funny. Not one of my friends that owns these cars is "cheap" there are a few that simply can't afford these expensive parts but if they had the $ they would get em.

I'm spending about $3000 in the next few weeks, am i cheap?

BTW i don't live in a trailer park, nor do any of my friends.

Now that i've taken a shot at poor wittle Drewey Poo i'm sure this tread will get locked

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

but i will agree with Drew that there is no market for the T-Ram

ImportsRsloths

LMAO of at drew.... i took your advice and drove about 15 minutes to the nearest trailor park and counted the thirdgens..... lol THERE WAS FIFTEEN . REPEAR **15** thirdgens...... only one halfway nice looking 91 RS camaro...... most were busted @$$ berlies and sport coupes...... couldnt even count on my hands and toes how many dents they had either!!!!

Beefy89

I got the quote from my "Local Holley distributor"who called Holley and then called me back.They told him it would take about 3 weeks to get it ,kinda like a build by order thing.I asked the guy if it was the whole manifold or was the plenum extra?He told me my cost for part#7540 which is the manifold is $265, and part# 534-185 which is the fuel rail is $155. After some smelling salts and a cold shot of Beefeaters I called Holley because I felt something was missing.The good ole boy at Holley told me that part#7540 was the whole manifold including the plenum(which does come apart, if your thinking what I'm thinking).I haven't seen any flow numbers yet, but it's gotta flow better than an LTR setup.

ZBRA

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

I am not cheap, I just don't have that much money.
I've spent over $10,000(doesn't include the cost of the car) so far in 2 years on my car and I think I might need to spend another $5,000 to get it to the point where I think it'll be done.

u r sofa king we tah did

how bout a paint job zepher

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

It's coming soon.
I need to get money for a hood and spoiler and then paint the car.

FlashGTA

I'll believe it when I see it on the Stealth Ram. The numbers I got on that were triple what you posted. I hope you're right, too bad it's not emissions legal.

a383z

iTrader: (2)

One more chime in, Yes our market is expensive, If you do your reading guys they say that 3rd gens are the best budget minded sports car to buy. So naturally most of us (not all) our budget is tight. Guys were in this together this bickering is not needed. If you think modding your car is expensive be patient and a good price, sale, group buy or somone getting rid of a part will come up. That is what I did on a budget. Now I have one of the most recognized modded 3rd gen in the dc/md area. It just takes time and patience(and I am far from rich). and by the way honestly if slp thought it could take the market by reproducing the T-ram I am sure they would have. Somone in there huge HQ probably did a survey and market research to find out it wasn't worth it to try to rebuild the t-ram. Too bad there aren't any head up comparisons between it and the SR but I am sure it was close enough why slp didn't make the T-ram.

Beefy89

I find the quote that he gave me hard to believe also,but without ordering it I won't know.I probably would have ordered it right then but I'm in the middle of modding my suspension and blew my wad on parts(shocks,struts,springs,adj panhard bar,control arms,and brakes).Maybe in the next few weeks I'll be able to order it if that is the real price.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

LOL People need to quit taking everything I say personally. If I call you out and say "hey fly89gta, you hillbilly ****** piece of white trash, you're cheap, your cars a piece of ****, and you're an idiot" then take it personally, if I don't then I'm not talking to you or about you. The fact that you identify with the stereo type I mentioned is your own problem. Stereotypes are generally widely accepted cause they're true. While I don't live in a trailer park I have had long hair, I have listened to megadeth, and if the situation necesitated I'd have primer or multicolored body panels. So don't get your panties in a bunch.

Its an illustration of the situation. This board is a cross section of the thirdgen population. Last I looked there were 10,000 some odd registered members, some of those are duplicates, many more are people that dont post, etc... but 10,000... and how many Camaro's and Firebird's were built each year? Hows just under 200,000 Camaro's each year from 82-92 sound? Even if we knock it down to 100,000 a year just as an average to make up for short years like 1990... then multiply by 10, and by 2 to include firebirds, and we have 2,000,000 thirdgens. Of those 2,000,000 we represent a very small segment of the owners.

By my example of trailer trash thirdgens, I'm not even saying that those people are members of this board. I'm just saying that they are out there, and they are the majority.

If you want to hate me fly89gta, hate me cause I think you're an idiot for hitting a mailbox with your car. Not because I share my opinion of marketing and the fbody stereotype.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

see maybe if u knew the story, i hit a patch of ice and lost control of my car, but you're too ignorant to care....u wanna call me an idiot, look at yourself...how much are u asking for your vert? now THAT'S funny!

Drew i don't hate you, i just don't agree with pretty anything you say, except for the T-Ram stuff . Maybe my area is different but the same about thing could be said about trashy people driving stangs and ricers as well. Maybe in your area its different.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

oh and Drew, if you're gonna pick on me, get it right. it was 2 mailboxes and a telephone pole!@! get it right damn it

Goes to show black ice and RWD don't go too well together

ah well no biggie, **** happens

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I do know the whole story, I just don't care. When the roads are slippery, you drive slower. I learned this when I was 16, what took you so long?

Regardless our argument doesn't belong here... My email and icq number is in my profile, and there's a nice new hot off the press thread waiting for you at nethirdgen.org where we can bicker out of the way as much as you want.

u r sofa king we tah did

90% of the time you cant see black ice, and your not expecting it to be there

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

being wet and icy are 2 different things

and i was doing 15 miles an hour, if that.

anway back to the topic at hand, there is no market for T-Rams lol

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Its called driving too fast for the conditions, and if fault has to be blamed, it would still come back to you.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

i know man, i never made excuses, i simply hit a patch of ice, **** happens, i also drive that road almost every day so i was a little complacent(sp) with the area, didn't think it'd be icy, ah well

also i did what you asked, started a thread on NE3G

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

If it is cold enough and it was wet.................
Expect the unexpected.

Ed Maher

Man, i go away for the weekend and the topic went straight to hell. As misunderstood as drew is though, what he said was basically right on.

I started to type out a long drawn out reply, but i realized there just was no point in continuing the bickering. Some of you are reading / seeing what you want to, and you're not listening to the point.

Are our intakes among the most expensive. Yes, no doubt. But at least if you spend ~ $1k putting an intake on your car, you can run 10s NA or better on it. Just cuz there are some cheap mustang intakes remeber they come w/ ****ty fuel rails, so thats an extra hidden cost. But yes, it is hard to explain the extra few hundred on a comparable chevy intake (although even new base and SLP runners is a decent set-up w/ porting for ~650 retail). It is simply a matter of no compettion and a small market allowing the price to stay so high. Some of us just take for granted that it's just the way it is. Complaining on a public board doesn't do you any good though. Instead you should be learning and contributing on making cheaper solutions run. Like the LT1 intake. Or siamesed bases. What it seems a lot of you miss is that if you do your homework you don't have to spend a lot of money on an intake to run pretty fast. Just cuz it sounds like a good mod doesn't mean it is. I'd much rather have cheap heads and a cam witha stock siamesed base and stock runners(say AL L98s, ZZ4 cam), you could pick up those parts used for in the 550-750 TOTAL range easily. And i guarantee it would be faster than a car w/ just an overpriced intake. Then add the overpriced intake to the head/cam and you're flying. At this point you have to spend boatloads on a tranny and suspension work and sticky tires. That is why it's said that speed costs. It's either your time or money. Or both...

Then look at the trannies, i'd say it's basically a wash, although i'd take a 700 over an AOD for strength and cost over an AOD anyday. Hey, do our cheap aluminum driuveshafts win us any points here?

OK, so mustangs come w/ great rears stock. Footbraked autos can run pretty quick w/ a 10bolt (and the 9 bolt is stronger yet) if you're trying to stay budget though. If you want a cheap strong rear, fabricate it yourself.

Suspension and stuff though, gimme a break, why did you pick an f-body if you didn't want a cooler suspension.

As for the engine itself, here the SBC pulls ahead. From heads to crank bearings, exactly what doesn't have more selection and better prices on the chevy? Maybe this would even make up for the intake price difference. Big inch engines are also 'easier' for us too.


Note, all the above was just a general statement, not addressed at anyone in particular. I took what i though were the common points and gave my best short summary. I'm going to leave this open, but please let's keep this civilized. Don't take things personally, this isn't about identifying with a stereotype. Christ, i had long hair till 2000. I have loads of megadeth MP3s on my hard drive and i'm listening to master of puppets right now. I have duct tape holding my torn rear bumper cover together right now. So don't act like i don't know where anybody's coming from.
Do something about your situation. Maybe holley is coming out with their intake after seeing how much the thirdgen and chevy EFI scene has grown in the last few years. SOME of us are more than just screwing around talking **** and are actually trying to be involved w/ a bigger scene. Even though it's still small market, it shows some potential when regular SBCs start running with the big dog 4th gen EFI cars. By offering a cooler looking alternative to a converted carb intake (oh, that cheap option that everybody ignores) they can pick some sales up. Plus factor in the way growing EFI swap scene. By offering a brand new intake not too far over what a used stock one runs on ebay thats some easy money there too.

Just as a brief example of the difference in stang vs. chevy EFI. I'd never even seen an aftermarket TPI set-up, runners or miniram until maybe 2 years ago, even though i've been messing w/ these cars since way before this board at th original site in 96. When i was 15 i knew prolly 5 people that had aftermarket intakes on stangs w/ heads and motorsports cams, etc.

TRAXION

The T-Ram is not being made because there is no profit in making it (as Ed already pointed out - for the reasons that he pointed out). If there's no profit then there is no reason to make it. Profit can only be made from product demand by those people who can afford to satisfy their demand. Its as simple as 1-2-3. Most thirdgenners these days are poor and cannot afford an expensive intake. That is just a fact. There's nothing wrong with that ... that is just how it is. You can't market a product to a group of people who for the most part can't afford it. The only way to do this would be to OWN a niche of the market. Unfortunately, there are no niches left. The MiniRam and LT1 intake own the upper RPM market. The SS-LTRs and SuperRam own the middle RPM market. Plus, with the advent of the siamesed bases and the other intakes offered by Holley, and Street and Performance - it becomes plainly obvious that there is just no money to be made by a big company like SLP.

Anyhow - the T-Ram sucks (from a performance standpoint of "more more more more airflow!"). I remembered when us old timers were in awe about the T-Ram years ago. Then I saw one. Ouch. I wouldn't want one. Take a look at the ports and the airflow and you can see why. I'd rather own a SuperRam (and we all know I would never put one of those on my car!).

Tim

u r sofa king we tah did

not to mention the installation job of t-rams looks like complete a_s. the throttle/tv cable set up looks like a 3 year old designed it.

Ed Maher

don't forget that the t-ram has the fuel raisl cast integrally in the intake. Super idea

IROC57TPI

Wow! I never expected this topic to go so far!

Thanks for all the input. All of my questions have been answered. I'm sure everybody elses have too.

I'm about to start a new one called StealthRam GP :hail:

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

We need to find more information on that thing. No good to alot if its not emissions legal.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

REALLY?!?!?! didn't know that!

Acceld Z

Geez, I wish I was a mod. Then I could flame people and post crap with impunity I don't think thirdgen enthusiasts are cheap. They are just "penny wise". Regardless of what most people think, these cars are expensive. The initial purchase cost is high (relatively) and the up keep is expensive as well. If you want to go fast, choose your parts wisely. For further evidence, see Trax's, Kevin91Z's and Mike Davis's cars. No crap, just power using proven parts. The crappy part is that the proven parts cost the most.

CHRISMAN2000

iTrader: (1)

Not all 3rd gen(ers) are cheap. I want a white face gauge overlay for my car. But unfortunatly no one make metric ones. I.E. Km's
Also the reason I don't want a mini ram or super ram is because I love the look of my TPI set up. I think the others look ugly and to concealed.
I've Never heard of the TR can someone post some pics please?
Thanks
Now thats my .02 cents. Wait I'm Canadian.
Now thats my .00002/5 cents.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

First off, you guys need to quit saying Tram and start saying T-ram or T Ram or something. The tram is what you take to the top of the Sandia Mountains here

Second, I have seen Ed's point of view from other people in similar circumstances. People whine for a part, then they won't even pay 20% of it's new- from- gm price. Granted, there are people who will step up and actually pay money for something, but sidestepping the cheap ****s on the way to selling a product at a truly reasonable price is a big hassle, quite often.

For those of you who think "A machinist could fab one of them there T-Rams right up if he had one to copy there." - do you have any idea how much of a pain in the **** it is to tool up for creation of something like that? Have you ever had metal castings or tubular fabrication done? By the time you get something "like" one of them made, you'll be right up at the Two Mini-Rams level. That of course is if you make it right.

Another forgotten point of view, those of you who are F & Y-centric: TPI is very common swap fodder now. Hot rods, trucks, etc. are getting them swapped in, especially since Painless & others sell limp home harnesses like gallons of milk so that Jethro and cuzzins believe they're accomplishing something outstanding. The f-body & y-body markets were the only OEM markets, but how many BOP & Chevy & Caddy cars were made w/ SBC's that it can be swapped onto?

My last point today will focus around GM, who usually is master of interchange and swapability. They just HAD to do 4bbl and TBI cars during the TPI years. Guaranteed, if they had done TPI acrost the board in 3rd gens w/ V8's, the market would be significantly different than it is now. Wanna know why the 86-95 5.0 Mustangs are probably the single biggest aftermarket (not including the SBC, which is not a vehicle)? NO 4bbl's after 85. NO tbi in stangs. Granted, the full size Fords got batch fire non HO 5.0's and so did trucks (and 5.8's) but ALL V8 Mustangs were port FI. That right there simplified and streamlined the market, paving the way to Mustangs being the tuner cars of the '90's. Sad, but true.

Matthew

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

Here is my friends 90 Formula 350 with the T-Ram,

CHRISMAN2000

iTrader: (1)

That thing looks scary.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

kinda looks like a space ship from Star Wars

Nickerz

. completely inappropriate