grafx

How many people are running with one of these units installed?? Want to know if they are worth the price. Looking at the 12 bolt with Auburn posi. Also like the performance diff cover with load screws but says there may be clearance issues with panhard bar, has anyone experienced this??

25THRSS

crap compared to other brands like strange. They don't come assembled, have a lot of problems, and their customer service sucks. Get a strange rear end!

grafx

thanks for the reply, anyother opinions or does everyone else agree?? What about posi, does anyone have an opinion on the type I should go with or is an Auburn setup a good choice??

25THRSS

get an eaton over the auburn cone type posi.

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Exactly what I was going to say. Just remember, they will tell you when you get it, but you can't run synthetic lube w/ the Eaton piece.

25THRSS

you can, and I do. Amsoil 80W90 gear oil

383backinblack

are you insane dude? i generally agree with you, but not on this

moser is renowned for having some of the best customer service in the industry, and their turn around time is phenomenal.

the only thing they dont come assembled with is the axles, the center section is completely installed, and if you use big ford housing ends, there is a little work to do to make the brakes fit, but if you want a true bolt in axle, thats you should get.

i ordered my moser 12 bolt, and had it AT MY DOOR 6 DAYS LATER
their customer service was phenomenal.....my best friend got one for his 98 SS and had the same experience i did.

their axles also come with a 10 year warranty against "breakage due to excessive horsepower"

find another axle company that will do that......if you break them, they will replace them free with the next largest axle (if you break a 33, they give you 35's)

i've had the rear for 2 years, its got about 100 passes and thousands of street miles on it....its never made a peep.....my girdle cover doesnt interfere with my panhard rod either, but i have a hotchkis panhard rod, that may make a difference

25THRSS

Just going by other's experiences, as I don't have a moser, because of that very reason. I didn't have to do a thing to my Strange rear at all. I even sent my backing plates into Strange before the rear was sent out and they installed them for me. I can't remember if there was any difference in price or not, but when I was shopping for a rear Strange was the clear winner over the others. I suggest you do a little research before you decide on what you want to purchase. The LS1 sites seem to be about the best place for info on rear ends for our cars. They played a big role in why I made my purchase.

383backinblack

the moser rear is a tad more expensive....less than 100 bucks i think, but pay attention to drag racers at your local track, alot of people swear by moser stuff, and wont use anything else.

if i was to rank driveline companies in descending order it would be

Moser/Mark williams
strange
currie
etc
etc

all good parts, basically a matter of what your looking for.....moser makes some of the best axles out there too.

alot of the reason for the moser axles not coming installed is that moser refuses to make ANY rears with c-clip axles now, so if you want big ford bearing housing ends, you need to do a little machine work to the brake plates and such.....its not really a big deal and well worth the results

The Doc

25THRSS:- Do you have the details for the Strange unit? Price etc? Do you have a link to their website?

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

I got a bit of info to put into the fire. Guy I know through the car club I was in came by today. He has a 12 bolt Moser rear that's howling really bad. He's only had it about 6 months and has never been to the track with it. It's in a 4th gen SS with zero mods done other than the rear. The mechanic said it might be one of the pinion bearings gone so he's talking with Moser in the morning.

383backinblack

i bet they take care of it

my best friend has one in his 98 SS and he BEATS THE SH*T out of the car.....on the street and at the track....i mean unmercifully.....and his hasnt made a peep yet either.....its been in there since march i think....i've had mine since the february before last.

25THRSS

This is actually quite common with Moser.

onebad82z

iTrader: (7)

This is why I bought my Moser 12 bolt in pieces.I shopped around..spent less than I would have on an assembled unit from Moser..and have a stronger unit than they build.Customer service you ask..me.I built it so I am my own customer service.Wether they are the top aftermarket company or not...all it takes is one employee building your rear that doesn't really care to set it up properly..and bam..you have a **** rear that wines..pukes gear oil or just explodes.Much like crate motors..I don't trust anyone and build it myself.But as far as Moser being "Crap"..I have to disagree.They are just as good as Strange,Currie,etc.The bad rears people are experiencing are from lousy labor.

25THRSS

I said crap compared to strange, not just crap. The 10 bolt is crap compared to a moser rear. It's all what you are comparing it to.

25THRSS

http://www.tbyrne.com/Images%202/strange12boltinfo.jpg

I bought mine from Tbyrne motorsports during a group purchase. Well worth it IMO!

jbenge

iTrader: (2)

I've been happy with my Mosier 12 bolt. I was impressed with their customer service when I was calling different companies trying to decide where I wanted to buy from and what type of rearend to go with. Its been in the car for about 3 years now with no problems, I would also recommend the Eaton posi, thats what I have.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

Welp, Moser basicly said "screw you, not our problem" to the howling 12 bolt problem in the SS. They said it was set at the wrong pinion angle? wtf, the car has a stock torque arm and this should be a direct bolt in app right? At any rate, the mechanic said everything looked fine inside the rear so something else is weird. Not impressed with Moser at all.

383backinblack

are you sure its not just gear whine??

if you have richmond race gears they will be LOUD.

even the pro street gears are very loud

89 Iroc Z

I have had a very bad experience with Moser; I would never recommend them to anyone. When I needed axles for my Dana 44 rear in my car then completely messed them up. I sent them back with an original axle so they could copy it and they first refused to pay for the change since they said I had a 9-bolt instead of a Dana 44 (Which is not true). After much hassle and frustration I demanded to talk to the head manager who finally emitted they were wrong and sent me new axles. The new axles came with wheel studs already pressed in and 2 of them were the wrong thread pattern so then I had to put some new studs in.

All and all I was very disappointed with there service and would never buy anything from then again.

I have also heard that Moser 12-bolt rears are very loud and that the c-clip eliminators leak.

Red|ine

thats a nice rear end, 25THRSS.. haha!

how much you pay for it? heh

383backinblack

my moser rear isnt loud, and moser DOES NOT make rears with c-clip eliminators....you either have bolt in axles (big bearing ford housing ends) or regular c-clip axles (which they arent fond of doing)

85TransAm406

iTrader: (1)

Customer service on my moser 9 inch was pretty good, got mine in 6 days also, even when i ordered it 2.5 inches wider than stock. checked the gear setup myself, it was dead on.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

They are the straight cut gears and the mechanic said it had 6 thousands backlash which is the max Moser recommends. He talked with another person at Moser and they agreed it was more noise than would be normal. The guy who owns the car is going to swap out for some regular GM gears I guess. Still in the works on what's to be done.

383backinblack

well straight cut gears make more noise than any other gear type.

which is why transmissions with straighter cut teeth make insane amounts of noise

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

As I said though, the guy at Moser agreed it was more noise than normal (for straight cut gears). The owner said he's losing his hearing because it's so loud lol. The owner understood it would be more noise than stock but it has progressivly gotten worse over the past 6 months.

onebad82z

iTrader: (7)

That's pretty tight for a 12 bolt.The minimum I would run is 10 thousands in a 12 bolt.What brand gear is in it?

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

Sierra Gear was mentioned but I'm not 100% sure what's in it. My mechanic buddy said when he and another tech test drove it last week, the howling would get louder the longer you drove it. Gets to the point where you have to yell at the person next to you to have a conversation.

onebad82z

iTrader: (7)

Sounds like they are too tight.As they (gears) heat up and expand the clearance (backlash) closes up even more..hence the howling.

jdaniel

I bought a Moser 12 bolt 3:73 COMPLETE from them. Rours so bad you can't stand it. Sent the ring and pinion back and they replaced it. Still so loud you can't stand to be in the car. They all say it's the magnifying of sound thru the torque arm, hard bushings, welded cross member etc.. Richmond agrees that this is a common problem. I mean......it's LOUD.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

So glad I didn't go the 12 bolt route from them. My Currie 9 inch only gives off the slightest hint of gear noise. Most of the time I can't hear it at all.

jdaniel

Any new ideas out there. Mosar 12 bolt 3:73 is too loud to talk over. Loudest rear end I've ever heard. I actually didn't know one could make that much noise. Mosar says it's normal?????????? They say it's the torque arm etc.. Anybody out there faced this and had any luck getting it at least BETTER??

firebirdjones

I can tell you my buddies experience with his 98 WS-6, he bought a Moser 12 bolt complete and that thing sounds like a school bus. He did the proper break in with the car on the lift, let the rear warm up and then cool back down. He literally drove it about 2 miles, it was quiet and then all of the sudden, it was louder than we could bear, it was awfull. Moser would not help at all and blamed it on other things like torque arm etc...Funny thing is we pulled it back out and installed the original 10 bolt for the car, all with the same torque arm and bushings etc... and that rearend is just as quiet as a mouse. So that just shows Moser is blowing hot air. Needless to say he is not happy with the rearend at all, it now just sits on the floor completely assembled and doing nothing. He wants to sell it and by a strange rearend. I can't say I blame him. My father has also had bad luck with moser c-clip eliminator axles, and there service for him was terrible, no help on the phone what so ever, but that is another story. Hope this helps, Larry.

383backinblack

interesting......once again, mine is fantastic, goin on 3 years now and its never made a peep.....the gears are a little loud but its because they're richmond race gears, the rear isnt....its not even that bad anyways.

obviously any company that does the kind of volume sales that moser does is gonna have some issues........i know people that have had the same problems with strange and currie.

unfortunately some unlucky person has to get the bad one, but thats life.......i love the thing, its tough as a ****

also, c-clip eliminator parts SUCK.....doesnt matter who makes them

firebirdjones

I agree backinblack, I have seen some good moser rears, another friend of mine has a complete moser 12 bolt in a 70 nova and its quiet, go figure. I just have not been happy with the excuses that moser makes, They should have atleast taken the rear back and put another set of gears in it or something along those lines. Oh well, my buddy is so fed up with it he just pulled it out and it sits there on the floor collecting dust. Too bad.
As far as the axles go, my father wanted to run c-clip eliminator axles on his 12 bolt in his GTO, he had bad luck with the moser axles leaking, they didn't design any type of seal in there axle to keep the grease in. When talking to moser, I again got some funny excuses, they told me they were drag race only axles and you are not supposed to turn corners with them. I said "well don't you turn corners at the strip"? You turn in the pits, turn in the staging lanes, turn at the finish line to come down the return road, and you turn into the water box, right? He got rude with me and had no answers, would not give me a refund, blah blah blah. Decided to go with strange c-clip eliminator axles, they actually had a seal and plate designed into the bearing to keep the axle grease in, been on there for many years now with no leaks, its wonderfull. I do however use moser axles in my chevelle, they are the c-clip axles, it's their heavy duty street version and I do like those, very tough, the car weighs 4,108 lbs and runs 11.40's with 1.59 60 foot times, those c-clip axles have been in there for about 6 years now. Im not knocking moser, like you said, you can get a bad product anywhere, just luck of the draw, there are alot of people out there like yourself that use them without a problem. Gald to here it works good for you. Larry.

jdaniel

Another thing that ticks me off is that every time I have talked to them (including last week at the Gators) they will say that they hear a lot of complaints like mine but they did not mention that when they were selling it to me.

jdaniel

Great. Mosar SOLD me another set of gears to try and see if they are quieter. Got them out of the box today and the bottom of the pinion gear has painted on it : F*** YOU!" I guess that means they read this board. I SAY, if you get a lot of complaints about this as you keep telling me.....and there seems to be no cure as you keep telling me......then tell me that when I order it NOT after you have my money. Classy bunch guys.

firebirdjones

Sorry to here that Daniel, sounds like you got ahold of the same dummies over there that I did. They know they have some problems but don't want to address them.
Real good way to support your customer base by sending messages like that, Are you listening moser?
Every since the owner/operator died a few years ago, (The fellow that started the whole thing in his garage) Moser has started going down hill in my opinion. Hope the new set works for you Daniel and is quiet like they are supposed to be. Later on, Larry.

jdaniel

I just faxed a short letter and a picture of the bottom of the pinion gear to them. I guess I'll wait and see if it matters to anyone over there. I paid good money and didn't cut any corners ordering it. I expected to get a quality rear end. If all these 12 bolts do this, why don't they tell you BEFORE you order it that you may encounter this problem. I was torn between a Currie and the Moser. Being an NHRA racer, I chose Moser because of their involment as a sponsor. I think I'm a little better educated now.

firebirdjones

Thats a good idea to mail a picture of it to Moser, hopefully something will come of it.
Currie makes great stuff, a buddy of mine uses a strange housing and setup in his 4th gen firebird and it has worked flawless so far.
Something that I noticed about the Moser rear that my buddy had to fix also, this is not critical but more of a pet peave, Moser rears do not have the metal tabs on the axle tubes to hold down the brake lines, the ones that are spot welded on. My Father stamped them out for him the correct shape and size and then they were welded on and ground down to look factory etc... he had alot of work in that rearend only to find out it sounded like a school bus When he bought the strange setup the housing already had the factory tabs on the rear in all the correct locations etc...just looked like a better quality rear from the get go. Oh well. I also like the strange axles better too, I have been around and around with moser about that also. I hope everything works out for you, Larry.

jdaniel

Well Ernie at Moser called me to tell me that no one at there place wrote that on the pinion. Said it must have come that way from the mfg. Boy, I'm glad we solved that and I'm sure he's telling the truth. He said that they don't sell anybody with a 3rd gen a 12 bolt set up without warning them that it WILL be noisey. He said there's NO way to get the noise out of it. I told him that no one even mentioned that when they were taking my 2100.00 order but since then, they all seem to say the same thing. He said there was NOTHING he could do for me. He said to him it probably wouldn't be that loud anyway. Like I told him, I've been in the car business for 26 years and been racing for just as long. I'm not an automotive idiot. I told him I wish I had got a Currie and he informed me that it would be even louder. Said the 9" is even louder. I have a Mark Williams 9" in my chrome moly 4 link ex ProStock and when I click it coming back to the trailer I hear very little if any noise from it. He said thats because it doesn't have a torque arm. Well it's got a 4 link (metal to metal) and is right under me basically with only tin work between it and me. He basically would not own up to anything or offer any help. He said he just called to let me know that they did not write the F*** YOU on the bottom. My guess is they read my opinion on this board and wanted a little pay back. I told him I would be sure to let everyone know what a fine company they had and their customer service was great!@#$%^&. He didn't care.

firebirdjones

Sorry to hear that Daniel, guess they figure they sell enough of them anyway so they are not worried.
I know the torque arm can be a source for the noise since it is mounted right on the pinion and runs up to the trans or floor depending on stock or aftermarket, but since the factory rears don't make any noise I really don't buy that sinerio. I can see that being a problem if someone has deviated from the factory setup as far as the torque arm is concerned, I mean removing the rubber bushings and installing poly bushings (which will transmit more noise) or going with heim joints for adjustability etc...will also transmit noise. But as far as a factory torque arm is concerned, well, they are quiet from the factory so whats up with that? Who knows.
I understand what you mean about the 4 link setup too, a bud of mine has 9 inch with 4 link setup in his mustang, it's all mounted solid etc... it makes very little noise, hardly even noticable over the engine. The 4 link is capable of transmitting just as much noise as you stated, I agree with you.
Just to add, My friend Goerge with the 4th gen firebird, removed his Moser 12bolt and installed a strange 12 bolt, we set them up ourselves, all new parts and the strange is very quiet.
We tried like crazy to fix the moser 12 bolt with 3 new gear sets, and no matter what we did we could not get a good pattern on the teeth, even after using all the proper gauges etc...to set pinion depth and back lash to the gear manufacture specs, still a crappy pattern, but on the strange 12 bolt it came out perfect the first time with the first set of gears, no noise, works flawless. It was leading my friend to believe there was a flaw in the moser case, something not quite square, who knows, just speculation at this point, But we have setup many rears in the past for other people and for myself, I have 3 of them in my cars, they are all quiet. And since Moser did not want to help George or my Father that just kind of left a bad taste in my mouth for their products. Guess you kinda got that feeling too, talk to ya later, hopefully about something more positive later, Larry.

jdaniel

Larry, I agree with you completely. I kept stressing to them that I was not talking about a little rear end whine, I was talking about gear noise so loud you can't hear the radio. It's a shame too because the car is finally finished and I was going to take it to Pontiacs in Pigeon Forge this summer. I hardly drive it though because I just can't take the noise. I am going to have to replace it with something else.
Jimmy

firebirdjones

Hey Jimmy, sorry to hear that, I know what you mean, my buddy Georges rearend sounds like a school bus
On a brighter note, not to change the subject, but when is the Pontiacs at Pigeon Forge, do you have a date?
We (family and I) always go to the fall Grand Rod Run which is September 16, 17, and 18th this year. I would love to make another trip down there this year for a Pontiac meet, I have a Pontiac hidden amongst all these Chevrolets in the garage. I usually drive my 70 Formula to the Grand Rod Run, would be cool to me some fellow car guys from this board. Please let me know, thanks, Larry.

jdaniel

Larry, I can't recall the dates. My wife set it all up. It's on the performance years website. Thats where I saw it. I'm either going to take my 77 Bandit or the 89 TA I'm talking about. If I take the 89 TA it will be in my car trailer behind my motorhome. Maybe I'll see you there.
Jimmy

firebirdjones

Sounds cool Jimmy, I will check that web site out and find the date, hopefully there will be some rooms left.
If I go I will drive a gold 70 formula. Maybe when it gets close we can exchange cell numbers and hook up while we are down there. Larry.

jdaniel

Sounds good. I'll be in a 4-speed 1977 Bandit with Alabama plates. See you then.
Jimmy

flyitlikustolit

after reading this and researching, I'll be getting a strange. I'd like to get a 9 inch, simply because you can switch out the center sections easily, so i can have 3 gearsets ready to go depending on my mood. i appreciate the advice, even though it wasn't for me.

x007

I have a moser 12" whit 3.73 / 33 spline axle on my T/A 84 and never have a problem...

Delivery in less than 2 weeks, i'm in canada,
I would get another moser if needed...

Very nice piece & not so loud btw... Not for me at less..

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

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