hey guys, i am planning on getting a shift kit for my car. where could i get one? i found one at advanceautoparts.com and its called a shift improver kit, is this what a shift kit is?

 

its not as serious as a kit from b&m or transgo would be

 

Shift Improver Kit is B&M's name for their kit. I like my car too much to put a B&M kit in it.

 

had a B&M transpack in my last trans loved it

new rebuilt trans has transgo i want the transpack

lost 2 tenths in the 1/4 with the transgo

 

Why is that? seems opposite of what everyone else says....

-- Joe

 

If you lost 2/10th's with any valve body kit, there is much more to this story. Tell me what you did & what happened exactly. I have installed well over two thousand Trans-Go's Shift kits in everything that I have built since late 1977 until now with much success, and I have never seen a car slow down due to the installation of the Shift kit, other things yes, but not the Shift kit.

 

if you're doing it on a bench, is it best to do it with the tranny sideways or up side down?

-- Joe

 

old trans was a stocker with B&M transpack shifted very hard untill it lost 2nd to 3rd

new trans was built by moster motorsports out of a car mag,
said to be good to 500hp, built with transgo shift kit

im not saying that transgo make your car slower just that B&M has a better performance shift kit, but i also hear thats what tears up the trannys, because there to harsh???

 

from what it looks like to me is that all the shift improver kit is a band with some frictions and that is it, no valve body mods or pump or nothing, why what is so bad about b&m

 

Well what I am saying is, everyone else in the wrold says transgo's shift kit is the best, and B&M's is crap.

So where did you get this info?

-- Joe

 

sorry anesthes, but i need a reason why b&m is crap, not just that everyone says that, to me that is no proof

 

I thought the reasons listed were because the B&M doesn't improve current problems with the 700R4, they just provide shims and new springs to make it shift a little harder. The transgo kit has the new servo, comes with bits and video, explains what needs modifications and why.


-- Joe

 

...where to begin....
B&M's "kit" is an upgraded pump spring, and sleeves that shim your accumulator pistons. total value of about $5. Plus the box it comes in and the de-structions that tell you which holes(2 according to them) in the seperator plate to drill out. = $50(somehow.....)
- Shimming the accumulators is bad. - the proper way to go is better springs
The B&M kit doesn't re-spring any pistons/valves in the vb. NONE. They don't do anything other than the pump spring to increase line pressure. Great, now your pump has more perssure than the springs in your vb can handle, so that done what?

Either get Transgo or Superior.
- a "shift kit" is a package that modifies your vb and your pump to provide greater pressure throught the trans to enable firmer shifts. It has nothing to do with friction/plates or bands.

 

Thank you. I'm not an auto guy, and I was trying to best explain the differences from my perspective.

the video shows 'em doing it with the tranny in. mines on the bench. any reason I shouldn't do it with the tranny upsidedown? (check ***** for example) ??

planning on doing it tonight while watching the video.

-- Joe

 

I've done almost all of mine uside down on the bench. Just be sure you put the check ***** in right, as you can screw yourself up as to how you're looking at the diagram.

 

sorry but go onto summits website and look up their shift improver kit, yes it is just frictions and a band and stuff like that, it has nothing to do with the valve body. well if you guys worship transgo so much, what other ways does it increase line pressure then the pump, and i know it doesnt fix everything, neither does transgo, i have bought other improvement items because the b&m kit didnt have it

 

My kit has a bunch of stuff and a video on how to modify the valve body.
Didn't have to buy other things. Well other than the $560 torque converter.

I'm not worshiping anything. I did my research,and chose what appeared to be best. Research before you buy.. seems i've been saying that a lot around here lately.

-- Joe

 

but overall you thing transgo is better because of all the stuff it comes with. and the video that helps you, as for what shagwell was saying, does transgo have replacement springs and no spacers

 

transgo replaces all the springs, comes with the drill bits needed, and some other misc parts like a servo.

-- Joe

 

there are 2 kits on summits site, look at the $139 one

 

i couldnt find that one for 113.00, found one for 111, im talking about the one the kid found at autozone or advance, they are called a shift improver kit, not the transpak or the transkit

 

first of all, not to be rude, but im not a "kid" im young yes, but definately not a kid. second, i didnt try to **** everybody off here, so chill out, all i was wondering was if the shift improver kit from B&M had everything it needed to be a shift kit. i am thinking about getting the transpak anywayz. so its all good.

 

sorry just couldnt remember your name, im not trying to fight, im just trying to get down to the bottom of what is good and what is not, and why and why not, this is my first time to rebuild a tranny

 

its all good, thanks for the help guys.

 

Let me throw my findings into the mix:

I got a transgo shift kit and I love it.

PROS:

-MOST IMPORTANTLY!: Comes with a video, VERY helpful with this install, as everything starts to look the same after the first day =(

-One of the most reputable name in Transmissions in my and many others opinions

-Tech support is always on hand and a phonecall away.

-Kit comes with everything you will need, including drill bits and metal plugs for the valve body gasket, and more than the BM kit has to offer, including the Vette Servo. Even comes with a rebuild kit for small parts if the trans is getting rebuilt. Good to have on hand in case you decide to do something in the future.

-Kit gives you the option of firmness, and functionality.

-Kit does it's job once it's in, shifts beautifully now, and shows definate potential at a better track time.

-Hangs in 1st and 2nd longer for more power when you need it.


CONS:

-Hangs in 1st and 2nd longer for less gas mileage

-I'm down to 16mpg grandmothering it...although that could be due to other reasons, not pointing fingers at Transgo, but it started happening shortly after the install

-Video tells you to put in too much tranny fluid on startup, my trans overflowed! Start with 3qt and keep checking the fluid level after it runs down.

-Twice the price of B&M, but worth it.



Just to add, buddy of mine with a Grand National had a B&M kit installed professionally and now his car "hunts" for second gear on occasion....just thought I'd put that in there.

 

I can't believe I have to grind the land off the pressure release valve though. wtf.. that wasn't in the video!!! hehe

How the **** am I gonna grind that flush on a round object. I can't put this thing in the lathe, its too small.

-- Joe

 

I dont remember seeing THAT in the video, and I watched it 5 times. Was it for a 700r?

 

It's not in the video, but it appears to be both in the 2003 manual, and 1993 manual.. Did you not grind yours down?

-- Joe

 

sounds like to me that even pros can make mistakes from time to time. i mean the gear is right there in the case, either his cable could be adjusted kind of weird or they screwed up the passages to it

 

Called transgo, they said the video is kinda abasic how to remove and install components, but follow the instructions. The land absolutely HAS to be ground down on the pressure release valve.

-- Joe

 

grinding that down isn't because of the shift kit, its a higly reccomended mod for any/all rebuilds. The ATSG manual even tells you to do it.
- A "shift improver kit" has nothing to do with the clutches/friction/bands. Some pics from summit/jegs/etc.. aren't exact. - To improve the shift firmness in an auto trans, you must alter the vb to apply more presure faster. Different bands/clutches will do nothing without modifying the vb for faster/firmer apply.
- I don't consider the vette servo and upgrade. A vette servo is a rebuild item for stockers, a billet servo is an upgrade for any performance/HD application. - IMO

 

They must have ripped that page out because I just never saw it. Which part is the pressure release valve and how much do you have to grind down? What are the cons of not doing this step??

 

I don't know what the cons are but, when I asked if it could be skipped they said no way.

I finished the install tonight. wasnt too bad. a little complex for someone whos always owned standards and this is my first auto car, but I learned a lot.

Heres a link to both the old manual, and new:

old: http://www3.telus.net/~crussel/700-2-3_1_2.jpg
new: http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/transgo.jpg

-- Joe

 

B&M shift kit may be the shift kit to hate on the internet, but the 10 plus kits I have installed worked very well, were easy to install and presented no problems.It is supposed to lock the accumulators for an extra firm shift. It does that very well(assuming extra firm is desired). Transgo it is more expensive, and certainly a better design. Very complicated to install by comparrison to B&M kit. I have a transgo kit on the shelf for installation in my own car. I expect to enjoy the transgo because of the progressive firmness dependant on throttle position.
Grinding the flats(or completely removing) the land on the regulator valve is not only recommended by shift kit companies, but by ATSG. Even on a stock rebuild, it is wise to do. I use a bench grinder to do it.

 

the issue with B&M's shim kit...er "shift kit" is that by simply shimming the accumulators tighter and upping the pump psi, you do nothing to step up clutch holding power nor anything to help the valves in the vb hold the psi. You also have done nothing to help the servo hold. Band slippage = bad things. - Yes, the firmer the accumulator, the firmer the shift. The shims do make the acc. springs act stiffer, therefore the shifts are firmer. But, now does your vb flow and hold enough psi to keep the clutches from slipping? Also, think of how old most of our acc. springs are. Ever seen one broken? I have, and it wasn't even shimmed, just broke. - Shim it up for firmer shifts...now you're asking more out of an already weak spring....

I'll say it again "IF you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?"

 

[/I]
When I purchased my first kit in 1988, I did not have any intention other than tighten up and firm the shifts.It never did occur to me that a shift kits job was to make the trans better. The firm shifts require eliminating the springs. Breaking them cannot happen in my car, they are not there.
Everyone is entitled to there opinion. After 279,000 miles(200,000) with the b&m kit, I have my rebuilt my trans once. This was at 235k. Not every trans blows up as a result of a shim kit.
Almost every trans I pull down for a rebuild has at least 1 broken accumulator spring. Usually the 1-2. Most seem to be red. Usually takes out the plate.
Had installing the kit caused my car harm, I would completely agree that it costs more to do it twice. Not everyone has problems with this kit is my point.

 

to start out with, I'm not trying to argue with you or anyone else, just stating my experiences and opinion - just to make sure we're not on the "wrong foot" -
- Firm shifts, even super firm, "break your kneck every gear change" can be had with accumlator springs and no shims. A properly built trans and the right acc. springs can be built to shift just as firm, all w/o the harshness during normal driving.

edit: pulled bs flag after understanding the context of the statement made by Floor guy

 

Agreed. As I said, everone is entitled to the opinions.

 

I agree. The quote is out of context. B&M requires the springs eliminated for the firmest setting. I did not mean to imply that "I" feel it nescessary to eliminate them. Pro builders can manipulate springs and make valve body mods to suit shift preferences. The B&M kit seem geared toward the do it yourselfer though. I presume they do it to keep it simple, for the do it yourselfers. Just wanted to clear that up. For the record, even though I have had them in my own stuff, I am not the biggest fan. Way too harsh for part throttle. The older I get, the less the banging shifts appeal to me.

 

Thanks for these. I bought the kit off a guy that had it, never installed it, lost the manual, and had the speed shop run him off more copies. This page must have been missing. Don't know how I missed that...

Looks like I'll have to pop the trans pan off this summer =(.
I just dont get it, because they were THOROUGH in the video on EVERY other part. Why would they leave this out??

And why isn't the damned thing just ground down when you get it in the kit????


------------------------------------------------------------------------


EDIT: No, wait, I definately had this page, and there is no way I missed this step. It says on the packet that you have a picture of Joe, that this is the "Reprogramming kit." Are we talking about the same kit here? This is the one I installed, minus the fact that this is for a Chrysler, the box is identical.

 

Everyone I talked to said it's important that that step is done. However, the tranny doesnt have to come out. That valve comes out with just a snap ring. Should take no more than 40 mins to drop the pan, take it out, grind it down, and reinstall it.

I put the motor and tranny in the car tonight. that kinda sucked ***. the torque arm setup on the c4 is rather gay. No crossmember..

-- Joe

 

Yeah, I know, but still nothing I'm looking foreward to. Call it a post traumatic stress syndrome if you will

 

agreed. - I edited out the flag after understanding how you ment it.

 

how does the transgo elimate this part throttle shifting hard issue

 

The transgo kit is pretty slick. It actually replaces some valves in the valve body and requires drilling new holes(also in the valve body). This combined with the seperator plate mods, servo mods, and pump mods allows for progressive shifts. I just installed one for a guy in Atlanta. He loves it. No more spilling his coffee when it shifts to second in part throttle, like the b&m kit did. This guy sent me a transgo kit for free as a tip. I plan to install it in my own car this season.

 

First of all, anybody can put in spacers in the 1-2 accumulator to stiffen the part throttle shifts, but this does nothing for the WOT shifts, now you drill a bigger feed hole in the valve body plate for firmer WOT shifts, and then the part throttle shifts are way too firm. This is backwards thinking. You want smooth 1-2 part throttle shifts, and the shift getting firmer with more throttle. Working with the accumulators, you can do this. The vast majority of 1988 & up 700R4 valve bodies come with a "B" 2nd accumulator & sometimes an "A", (located in the valve body). Since this is what you have to start with, you will need the Trans-Go Junior Shift kit 1-2 accumulator spring setup to keep from having a bang shift at light throttle when using the Corvette servo. With the "B" or "A" accumulator valve, you will need to use the black spring (the lightest). This is what I use with the Trans-Go Performance Shift kit. This way I can keep away from the 1-2 part throttle bang shifts. I do not recommend using spacers on the 1-2 accumulator at all. There are other accumulator valves (different letter valves "N", "M", "L", "K", "F", etc.) that require different spring setups, but I am addressing the most common here. Blocking the 1-2 accumulator will get you a too firm of a part throttle shift, while the WOT shift will not improve much if at all. Working with the accumulators will give you the best of both worlds, smooth 1-2 part throttle shifts, and firm WOT shifts. You can't ask for more that that.

 

so putting a spring in there will make it not so hard at part throttle and it will firm up more as you get to wot. compared to just spacing it up

 

- putting a heavier spring in, plus drilling the vb out correctly will give you mild midrange shifts, progressively firmer the more throttle you apply.
- spacing it(instead of springs) will give you overly firm shifts("bang shifts") all the time under WOT, but at WOT you'll still have a mild shift.(and the point in this would be...???)
- spacing plus vb mods will give you all the time "bang shifts"(you only thought you ripped trans mounts out before...). No hesitation, instant bang. This is VERY hard on planetaries. Also tends to **** off the gf when she's riding with you. Taking here out to a nice dinner and chirping the tires/snapping her head back every shift does not win you any brownie points.....(although many do like you walking others when the need arises)

 

 

sorry shagwell, i dont understand what you are trying to say.

"- spacing it(instead of springs) will give you overly firm shifts("bang shifts") all the time under WOT, but at WOT you'll still have a mild shift.(and the point in this would be...???)"

First you go to saying that you will have overly firm shifts all the time under wot, then you say youll have a mild shift, and you saying what the point in this would be, dont know what you mean by that.
As far as my mods, ive done two spring replacements either being a spacer or a new spring, two bigger boost valves, press. reg. spring, throttle spring, only know of drilling the spacer plate in 4 places, 3 from b and m, and one from my atsg book.

plus drilling the vb out, as in the spacer plate or do you mean using a reamer on it