Yea, i'm getting a clutch disc, ordered in for tommorow.
$70 for a stock disc. I'm just going to throw that in there and try that. At the end of the summer when i've got some money and alternate transportation I can always take it down and put in a real nice clutch so this doesn't happen in the future.

 

what kind of clutch were you running?? a centerforce DF woulda blew away the tires.. haha

my results with second gear.. kinda on the limiter for a while.. lol

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/8...b201691f53.htm

 

funny, I never start short brief threads, I seem to usually start the nice long ones... Well, at least I accomplish something with each of my threads, they're never rhetorical...

Yea, I remember seeing that vid I think, inspired me to say "hey, wonder what happens if I dumped the clutch in 2nd gear in my souped up trans-am??" Yea, less than successful.
That would have been a stock clutch. Probably from 1982 too.
I need the car running now so I can go find a job and get some $$. Then later in the summer I can invest in a quality clutch.

 

oh wow.. sorry for the inspiration.. not a whole lot of good came from it.. hopefully the clutch disk works for you..

 

You're a bad influence 5678TA, it's all your fault he broke his car!

 

don't know.

 

Uhh ok Arenateam, thanks for coming out and posting then...

 

Hey 5678TA (BTW, is there meaning to that nickname?) do you think I can rebolt on the BH seperate from the tranny again? Just put on the BH with the TO bearing balanced on there, then benchpress the tranny and try to line up the input shaft to go through the TO bearing, clutch, and into the pilot bearing? I remember it being very hard to do before when I did it with the BH attached, to the point that I pulled the motor to attach it...

 

That's what a friend and I did a couple weeks ago. Put the bellhousing up, slipped in the bearing and also put a couple long *** studs in to slip the trans on. You can do it without the studs but just be a little more tricky.

 

ok guys, my bad.. i guess it was my fault for being sonix's inspiration..

there is a meaning to the name.. 5678 is my car number for drags.. and TA is trans am.. when i was trying to think of a screen name for this forum, 5678TA just came to mind.. *shrug* so i just stuck with it.. now, more than a year later,(EDIT: it hasnt been a year yet..) lol i can think of a few other good names which i'll keep to myself for later usage.. say, on a license plate?


oh i put my trans on like you described.. BH on first, then benchpress the trans up and get a workout for the day trying to line her up.. you could put the tailhousing on a jack and just lift the front end.. then work from there.. but its kinda hard that way cause you gotta get the trans in straight and a jack has only a limited motion..

after i get it far enough in, i break out the rubber mallet(that was sitting next to me during the lifting) and whack the output shaft while lifting with the other hand.. then bolts go in and pull it the rest of the 1/16th inch..

 

Hmm, i'm not sure what the threads are from trans to BH, I thought they're metric, and I don't have any metric studs that's for sure... Well, i'll give it a try today, thanks guys.

 

That's 100% BS. This is wayyyy too freakin' hard. Totally Deja-vu. Last time I had to put the tranny back up to the engine I just pulled the engine. Even that way it was hard. Geezus...
I cut the heads off the trans-BH bolts and used that as studs. That didn't work. I swear, I get it into the clutch, so it's 1/2" or so out, just need to get the tip into the pilot bearing - and i'm shut down. Damn. I even got a helper here too.

Any other tips or secrets to get this in? I'm going to buy some new trans-BH bolts, and sit and think about it for a bit...

 

Bingo, Do this :P

Ok, so you already did, well it can only be a few things (or a combination of them)

The power goes from your crankshaft to your flywheel, to your clutch, through the friction material to the input shaft of the transmission, through the path of gears there, to the output shaft yoke, to the driveline, to the differential pinion, to the ring gear, to the side/spider gears and out the axle shafts, and to those tires..

I'd reverse engineer the whole thing and go backwards.. you'd hear little chunks rattling around if you blew your side gears and/or spiders, but taking the backing cover off is really easy and worth the peice of mind. If you can spin the driveline with your arm and the tires move, that all checks out... then the problem may be with the collars inside the T-5 that slide and engage different gears on the main/countershafts. .. which is what I would guess. They are small enough that you wont really hear a pop or a bunch of rattling, and the carnage would just go to the bottom of the case and sit there..

If you can see your clutch, chances are that it isn't the problem, its a fairly tight fit and compresses rather tightly to transfer all that torque and move the car, and with exception of catastrophic failure would work somewhat, even if just slightly..

The T-5 Transmission is known for its unwillingness to handle even somewhat typical abuse..

One guy mentioned the input shaft, yeah they are really weak on these transmissions, but would have probably made some sort of an exploding sound.. :P Its a really easy transmission to pull, so drop it and take the cover off and have a look. You will probably see some bits of something hanging out

Just another guy chipping in his thoughts!

-Brett

 

Princess Auto 1030477, if you've got enough height under the car. Failing that, use a pair of floor jacks, one under the front and one under the rear of the trans.

 

Put it in gear and push it... if it rolls you broke the rear or the trans, if not the clutch disintegrated.....

 

i was lucky enough to be able to do it in the school shop with a really nice lift and a tranny jack. still super hard to get it in... took 3 of us plus the auto teacher. you have to get it lined up just right then it goes in easier.

 

As far as the getting tranny in part.... yea my friends and i have been this route... the disc needs to be 1000% aligned WITH A TOOL otherwise it won't go in the last 1" or so.... if you try to pull the housing in with the bolts your setting yourself up to break stuff

 

come on sonix.. my 57 year old dad installed my trans by himself once..

did you use a clutch alignment tool?? and better yet, did you use it correctly?? you know, tighten in a criss-cross pattern in intervals while playing with the tool to make sure it slides in and out easy.. you may also be going in the wrong angle too.. there is infinite angles that the trans can be and only less than a degree or so that actually works.. make sure its straight side to side and up and down.. put a little anti seize on the tip and let her slide in..

oh btw, i have like 2" bolts so i get the trans up then throw a few bolts on.. maybe jack under the back.. whack with the rubber mallet, tighten the bolts, whack, tighten, whack, tighten, until its all good and done..


and to the couple other guys, we went through all the variables already.. read previous posts..

 

Man, people are coming out of the woodwork now! But c'mon guys, I know it's a long thread so if you don't want to read it all, just try to catch the main points - like in my sidebar. I've filled it out for this purpose - No T5 here. And i'm a little late to be checking some of those things, i've checked most of them already - i've got the tranny on the floor and bloodied hands and a whole lot of frustration at this point...

Yea, I bought just the friction disc, so I didn't get the alignment tool (the cheesy disposable one that has the splines on it?). So i'm using a universal one I rented, and it's got some play in it. I do remember last time I had to connect the trans to the motor - this colossal PITA of a time, I realigned the clutch a few times and eventually it went in. I'll try that I guess.

I bought some 1/2NC-2" bolts to replace the stock ones that I chopped up to make into studs. That was a little dumb. If I get this back together right, i'll order the right bolts from a bolt supplier and fix that up later.

Anyone by chance know the ID of our pilot bearings? Just so I know i'm using the right tip on the alignment tool? I was using the smallest one, but it had a tiny bit of play, I didn't think a bigger one would fit in...Unless it's a REALLY snug fit?

hmm, Apeiron, would that be a tranny jack you're pointing me to? Crap, if I had another car (or some $$) i'd go grab one. Right now i've only got the car ~1' off the ground though. That's what makes this such a PITA, an 80lb tranny (yep, I weighed it), and i'm trying to lift it off the floor while lying next to it... Argh!

Alright, i'll get this done tomorrow afternoon, if there's any justice in this world...

 

ya i meant the plastic one with the splines on it.. its the best thing to use for alignment.. i used to use a 6" extension till i wised up and got a tool..

lucky you.. your trans only weighs 80lbs.. mine, with the g-force upgrade, was mid 90's dry.. 100+ with fluid, and a trans yoke(to seal the fluid in).. that bastard is heavy.. and i do trans installs the same way you are.. only got a floor jack and jackstands..

 

The studs my buddy used on his were probably 8 inches long, maybe less. Long enough to lift the trans onto them and still have the input shaft outside of the bellhousing. Slid everything in, got 2 bolts in one side, removed the studs and put the other 2 bolts in. This was on a Jerico 4 speed transmission so I don't know if you'd have the same clearance for the long **** studs.

 

It's a transmission jack adapter to mount on a regular floor jack, about $65 or so.

80 lbs is nothing. Try lifting an automatic with a torque converter.

 

Once the trans has that last 1/2" to go, have your helper push in on the clutch pedal and hold it. Then wiggle the trans into place. Once in place the helper can release the clutch.

The ONLY tool I've found that centers the disk perfect is an actual input shaft. Have a 10-spline job from a Muncie that works every time. Only now the tranny's are being made with 26-spline input shafts. Haven't found one of those yet.

RBob.

 

pressure plate to weak to hold the power? Hot disk couldn't grab? Combination of both? Shift linkage went funky and it actually wasn't in gear?

 

I was going to guess rear. Rears do funny things when they grenade. Sometimes they will act like they are together, until you put torque to it from the motor. Turning things by hand only does so much...

If your clutch fix works, great! If not, you gotta pull that cover. Like said above, its 10 bolts and some fluid. A 10 bolt is a 10 bolt I dont care what you did you to "beef" it up. They are still weak. Sometimes when they break, little chunks will wedge in places and make it seem locked up and normal, or when pulling it the fluid movement was making the driveshaft spin.

Thats just my guess though... Im curious to see if you did toast the clutch. That'd be good if thats all it was. Ive been wanting to do a light clutch drop in mine in 2nd gear just to see what happens, but this scenario is keeping me from doing so. haha.

Justin

 

Well $%^&* that wasn't it.
Now when I let out the clutch in gear though, I get a "clunk". Sounds like it's right below me though...? Tranny area...
Hopefully I can get a buddy's truck to help me push it up the driveway into the garage, then I can put it up on the stands again and find out what's wrong. This time I'll get someone to watch me try to drive it up the driveway though, watch the driveshaft and see if that's turning.

 

just put it in gear and see if it rolls..... if it does then look at the driveshaft. while its rolling if the driveshaft doesn't turn the rear is blown if the driveshaft does turn then the tranny naded

 

Yea, that's what I was saying I was going to try. I figured i'd have a few hours until buddy came by with a truck, so I took apart my q-jet to finally JB'up the well plugs. It's hard to start after a few days sitting... So i'm waiting for that to dry now

 

DING DING DING

Found the bastard.

Thanks to 5678TA for calling it in the very beginning - spider gears. I (stupidly), followed what I thought would be the problem, and turned a blind eye to what was right in front of me. Lesson learned - pulling and replacing the tranny is a colossal pain in the tail, so avoid it at all costs.

Draining the diff and popping off the cover and finding springs, is much easier.

Also, thanks to Rbob, I know that's the second time I posted about having a bi*** of a time getting in my tranny, and it's the second time you told me that, and the second time it worked like a charm. Maybe i'll spray paint those instructions on the bellhousing so I remember it next time...

2nd note - Now I realize, power goes through the spider gears. For whatever reason, I was mistakingly thinking that if my posi completely fails, my pinion is still positively connected to my ring gear, so at least ONE tire would move, i'd just have a single tire fryer. Which is fine, it still gets me down the street.

Sigh, stupid $70 stock clutch that I didn't need...

So, now I frantically search for a new posi. I'll try to find another posi, but if in doubt, i'll JY dig for an open carrier, at least I know I can find one of those for dirt cheap, and it'll get me moving until I find a job and have some cash. Maybe i'll see if anyone is selling a posi on the board, or locally, or parting out a 4th gen or something.

Thanks to everyone for their help. Now that I've found my problem, I might start a new thread so it's not so bloated on how to replace a posi... (I think I can figure it out, but in case there are any snags...)

 

So you finally got stinky and pulled the cover Glad you found the culprit.

 

haha, good job bro!

I might have my good ol open carrier up for sale soon, depending on how things go with this posi i might get

$5 plus shipping




Actually, is that the stock rear end in that car? Let me know, ill find out from my buddy how many axle splines are on his spare posi carrier he has, he might sell that if you cant find one...

 

Yea, stock rear, 26 splines, 2 series. I can use a 3 series with spacer IIRC. Let me know ASAP, I need it fast and cheap, and from inside Canada like yourself, it's probably my best bet.

EDIT : I have 3.23 gears in a 2 series carrier now. I guess if I get a 3 series posi, i'd need to get the "thin" 3.23 gears, or a higher numbered set of gears... So yea, I can't use the spacer unless I want to use the higher gears with the smaller 2 series spacer. I still get mixed up on that one.

 

YES!!!!!!!!!! I WIN!!!!!!!!!!! is there a prize?? lol.. none needed..

glad you found the problem.. i see it know.. even if the spiders went, there is still probably enough friction on the axleshafts to spin the tires with the driveshaft.. some lessons are learned the expensive way.. like my motor for example.. haha.. roller springs on a solid flat cam.. didnt last too long.. but it will only help for experience.. it will not hurt you.. physically.. financially, maybe..



oh ya, dont try the second gear burnout again until you get a 9" or 12 bolt.. i have a bullet proof driveline.. thats why i do stuff like that without thought..

 

i beleive i was the first one to say rearend....and i beleive you also said i was wrong.

 

haha.. Yeah I voted rear too...but later in the thread.

Im glad you found the problem bro... But I still cant believe you went through all that without pulling the diff cover. Even if it was an issue with the trans, I still would have pulled it. If your car is down anyway...now is the time to fix it all.

As for fixing your rear...it sounds like you need something soon or else Ide be pulling for you to get a better rear. Hopefully you can find something close and fast and cheap and get her back together quick.

Good luck getting it rebuilt and keep us updated on how you made out!

J.

 

hey hey, I said I felt stupid right? 2nd time in this thread, I guess i'm just stubborn. But you also said "T5" without looking at my info, so I assumed you were just shooting from the hip, so I didn't pay that much attention. I turned pinion and tires turned, I didn't comprehend how that would be possible, but impossible with the engine powering it - know I now. An expensive and timely way to learn how something works.

I'm a new university grad without a job yet, and I probably need my car to get to where ever I will be working. So yea, that's why i'm looking for a cheap fix for now. After that I might get a high end aftermarket posi, maybe new axle shafts or just ditch the losses and fab up an 8.5" 10 bolt, i've been wanting to do that for a while now.

 

Haha hey no one is callin you stupid. Stubborn maybe. But we are all guilty of that I dont care what anyone says. Bottom line, you learned from the situation, you found the problem, and your car will be up and running soon. Thats all that matters right?

Save up, get a better rear one of these days, then find the next weak link... haha. And no more 2nd gear clutch drops for awhile

J.

 

Yea, i'll get it moving, then when I get myself out of debt and have some spare cash lying around, i'll upgrade to like an Eaton (rebuildable?), and a "heavy duty" version. Or i've always wanted to try to fab up the 8.5" 10 bolt to fit...

Anyway, I tore the rear apart, and boy was that nasty. The cross shaft bolt sheared off, that was a PITA, then the cross shaft also had massive wear on it, so it was just nasty to remove. Also the posi itself was "twisted"? So the halves of the shell weren't quite lined up, causing it to GRAB the cross shaft harder. Stupid $75 zytanium cross shaft my a**....
So i'll be getting a basic stock replacement shaft now...
I might have a line on another stock Auburn 2 series. Yay.

 

Been following this thread on and off. Glad to see you found the problem! Isn't yanking the tranny for no reason fun?? Been there. (Got the T-shirt)

A perfect excuse to upgrade maybe?

 

well technically dude,the 4spd or the 5spd....doesnt really matter...both are equally weak.

ive had both,and i popped the 4spd twice....ive YET to break a 5spd,and so far my 305 irocs in the mid 13s...and mid 12s on spray....so far trans has held it.


you can always narrow it down to driveline or trans in these things,they are that weak,and prone to exploding.

 

Yea, well i've heard so much about the non-WC T5 being weak, the WC T5 being a little less weak, and the saginaw 4spd to be hurtin' as well. But everywhere I've read shows the BW Super T-10 to be very high up on the list as far as strong stock trannys. Up there with the fabled muncie M21 rock crusher.
But hey, I certainly can't argue, the diff units are weak like circus lemonade. I actually thought that by inspection, the driveshaft u-joint straps would be very weak, they're so small with such tiny bolts... Huh, guess not.