So, probably the dumbest thing i've done yet, but I got my reward, jogging home in a t-shirt for 2 miles as the temp dropped below freezing...

Anyway, revved the car up in 2nd gear, dropped the clutch at a rather high RPM, car lurches, then stops.
I can move the shifter into all gears, but none move the car. Let out the clutch and they all feel like neutral. I can't feel the clutch engaging.

-No big puddle under the car
-No chunks or pieces
-No half of a driveshaft
-No big CRUNCH when I dropped the clutch.

I'll get it towed home tommorow, any guesses as to where I should start? Common points of failure for this?
I'm guessing clutch. It's the stock LG4 one that seemed like it had some life left.. Do clutches "fail", ie, blow apart into dust?

 

theres no justifiable reason you could give...to make what you did....make sense. why in the hell would you do that? what most likely popped was the trans or the rearend.

and you deserve everybit of what happened.stop abusing your car.!

 

Umm, ok. I admitted it was stupid, why don't we just leave that be and focus on the problem at hand?
I think you're wrong on both of your guesses of what broke, so I think your point was completely useless. Thanks for coming out though.

 

oh really? first off...these trannys are really weak,there number one problem is shock....and a high rpm clutch dump...is surely enough to kill a t5.


its also more then enough to pop a stock rearend in these vehicles.

last rearend i broke,was totally silent when it let go..

so,instead of just asking for opinions,then shutting them down when gotten,how about you go outside....and go fix your mistakes.

 

Alright chief, i'm less than enthusiastic about taking your ill given advice.
Did you read my full post?
How about checking my sidebar to see what I have? I attached my signature so you'd be sure to read what has been done to the car, this isn't exactly a bone stock LG4 and T5 here.

The T-10 is a transmission renowned for being strong. This isn't a dinky non world class T5 i'm blowing apart - if it was, I wouldn't have been doing something that stupid.

My rear end was rebuilt by yours truly, and strengthened up a bit. I also think due to the method of failure, it wasn't the rear end failing. I would have gotten a nice satisfying crunch, and would have gotten the car moving erratically.

I know i'm not the first person to drop the clutch in a stick shift in a sports car here. I already gave you the benefit of a doubt and mentioned it was something stupid - in spite of the fact that MANY members do this on a regular basis.

Lets start off on another foot here, any other thoughts as to what may have failed? I can easily pop off the rear cover tommorow and check that.

Any thoughts on the clutch though? Can they/do they fail in a catastrophic sort of way, or is it generally a slow - wear related death?

 

spider gears maybe?? my first encounter and first run of my life at the drag strip ended up not even past the 1/8th mile.. shattered spider gears in the posi right after the tree.. on street tires..

jack the car up and try spin the tires.. if the driveshaft dont move, no spiders..

secondly, it could be the trans.. input shaft maybe?? idk.. but check the tire rotation thing
----------
even if the clutch went, you could still roll.. there should be enough pressure to hold a badly burned disk..

 

Lay off him...you all know that you've had the urge to go crazy and do something extremely abusive - yet potentially fun - to your car. He just got unlucky and broke something.

You haven't really taken a good enough look at it to be able to give us enough information to make a good guess. Something serious is obviously broken, I'd put my money on the 10 bolt. But you really have to get the car home, get it up, get under it, and do some investigating.

 

Wow.

Look under the car when somebody puts it in gear and lets out the clutch. If the drive shaft turns but the wheels don't, then the rear end broke.

If the drive shaft is not turning, then the trans or the clutch broke.

If it's the trans or the clutch, pull the trans and start eyeballing things.

 

Sonix, you may want to check you driveshaft a little close, you may have just broken something as simple as a U-joint. And for some reason the driveshaft may be caught in something else, and not dropped yet. When you pop it into gear, and it feels like neutral, just pull the e-brake, and pop underneath, see if anything is spinning. If not, then likely something went in your tranny. If so, then likely something went in the rear end. If you see something spinning, and something not spinning, its prolly the u-joint and the driveshaft... etc tec..


As for the clutch, i really dont think they explode into dust, you would have heard some funny noises or something. A clutch is basically identical to a brake setup, and if your goin highway speed and have to slam the brakes in an emergency situation, the brakes will either lock or slip, not explode or incinerate into dust.

However, given the circumstances, a start in second is very strenuous when high revs (high power) are engaged in a short period of time (drop clutch). Since the car DID move, i assume the power got through the transmission ok, and even to the ground. However at this point, because of the high stress, something wasnt able to cope. The reason i think its a u-joint, is because you have no funny noises when in gear, and clutch released. If you broke something in the tranny, im sure ud hear a grind or a clunk or something. Since these are not cable operated trannies, the selector also isnt an issue. My second guess would be the rear end.

We need a few more hints, but i guess we'll know soon enough.


also, iroc88, he didnt ask for an opinion, just ideas on how to solve his problem. If he didnt tell you the story of how he broke it, you probably wouldnt have posted in the first place. How much bashing on you, will it take ya think to fix ur car next time it breaks?



EDIT:
I guess sofaking beat me to it.

 

well,when something breaks,i dont post on a message board asking for help,not only is it nothing but a guessing game....how hard is it for him to just crawl under the car...and starrt self diagnosing.


you guys letting it slide is apauling. not to mention the fact,i offered my advice,and he commented back that i was wrong,so to each there own i suppose.

and furthermore,when my stuff breaks,or fails.....im not doing a 9 grand clutch dump from second gear.


furthermore,like i said,ifi had to bet moneyo n it,id put it on the rearend being blown up in some way,as i said earlier,all 3 imes i blew up a rearend,they made no noise,no loud bangs that were clearly audible....not to mention these things are ticking time bombs no matter whats done to them.

 

my guess is its the clutch. similar thing happened to me. wasnt trying to drop the clutch, just driving it home and from a stoplight it lurched then stopped. it was like you described neutral in all gears, no sound, nothing. brought it to the school shop and took off the tranny and the clutch disc was literally shattered. replaced that and now it runs great.

 

Haha, nice one bud

Im going to go out on a limb and say you twisted off the input shaft on the tranny!

 

im gonna go with the Clutch idea 2, Because you have not identified any crack noises, Probly something wrong with the disk etc, Like sofa said id yank it and find out

 

Well, it was midnight, dark, and cold, so I couldn't do a whole lot of checking last night.
Reason I'm inclined to trust the rear and tranny is because they are relatively solid pieces there. I figured it would be the "weak link", driveshaft or clutch.

I'll get it towed and put it up in the air and figure it out this afternoon.
The tires are such garbage, they break loose under just about any amount of throttle in 1st gear, and if I roll into it too hard in 2nd as well, I figured it'd break loose... Huh, go figure.

I'll do some of those checks mentioned and narrow it down later.
Thanks

 

I had to prove to the tow truck guy that when a standard car is in neutral, yes indeed the driveshaft turns with the tires. The clutch doesn't disconnect the tires from the driveshaft.
I was a little worried that I had to argue that with the tow truck guy, but he had my car up by the front end and pulled it forward a little ways to prove me wrong (err, he was wrong obviously) - driveshaft moves. Which at least lays my mind to ease re: rear end.

I think i'm going to have to pull out the tranny to do anything from here on it. I'll post when I figure out what it was.

 

Yulp, looks like a mouse nest inside of the bell. After that I started using better clutches

(it was a long time ago. . . )

RBob.

 

A friends Mustang did this while I was in it. He was driving the car and it just quit pulling entirely when we took off agressively in 1st gear. I thought he'de scattered the trans or the cable had got stuck. After the car sat a while it would pull again, he changed the clutch for a King Cobra and the one that came out was DONE. It was pulling fine when it would engage but it was just so thin and the pressure plate so worn that sometimes it entirely wouldn't engage. I vote clutch, at least I HOPE clutch for your sake. I'de be pissed if I blew up a better than stock manual.

 

Nothing looks damaged. Driveshaft is fine, rear end is fine.
I'm almost ready to drop the tranny, i'm going to get a new 3/8" swivel to make the bellhousing bolts a bit easier, and try dupe someone into helping me drop this...

 

Who needs a swivel :P, Pop the distributor cap of and let the engine hang down, I got them fine with a normal 3/8 rachet and 6 inch extension yesterday

 

My bet is the clutch. I burned out the clutch in my friends dirtbike a while back doing burnouts in 5th gear (Not my bike, I didn't care about it!) and the symptoms were identical. I realize it'd a dirtbike, but clutches all work the same.

Let us know what the conclusion is.

 

yea, as I was laying under the car trying to figure out how to get to that top left bellhousing bolt I remembered what I did last time (duh!). So I removed the tranny x-member and let it hang. Couldn't get it far enough down to make it *easy*, but with my swivel and my electric impact (I love that tool), I got 'em all out.
Unfortunately my roommate already went to bed, and i'm not comfortable yanking the tranny without someone within screaming distance. I kinda hurt myself last time I did that, so now i'd prefer to have some help, or at least someone near enough to hear my cries for help.
I'll get 'er out tommorow afternoon.

 

I've seen that 3 times, all on Hondas. What a mess it makes

 

i love electric impacts.. its a wonder how i worked with out them.. even any type of drill will work.. i got a high-torque drill and that will spin your wrist..

i hear you about the screaming distance thing.. be safe, dont be a retard.. but i pulled my trans about 5 times by myself.. and there was probably no one within 100 yards that could potentially hear me.. but a t-5 isnt that heavy.. if you can bench press it, its safe.. 100lbs isnt even a warm up..

 

Yea, I can probably bench press it (no idea what this weighs, probably a bit less than a T5, since it's got one less gear and an AL case...), but when it falls unexpectedly on your upper chest or neck area it's rather unpleasant. And i'm going to try to remove it with the shifter still bolted up, so that's going to be funky.
I remember having to remove the shifter before in order to remove the tranny, but it doesn't LOOK like I need to remove it... Am I about to be in a world of pain here?
NVM - I think so, i'll need to drop the tranny straight down to get the shifter to clear, but move the tranny straight back to get the input shaft free of the pressure plate... aww sheissa...

 

For what little it's worth, I'd also have to put my bet on a blown clutch. I had the same problem with my '84... Last time I let a guy drive my car thats never driven stick before. :P

 

i was looking around in the auto shop at my school and happened to come across my old clutch disc and flywheel... btw this is NOT what you want your clutch to look like.

 

Damn, tranny is hanging on by a thread, but hanging on hard! Top left corner of the tranny bellhousing is scraping on the trans tunnel and not letting me get the sucker out. Maybe i'll try jackup up on the balancer (lightly!), to tilt the motor back more so I can get it out. I fought that POS for a while today and got nothing but frusterated. BH is 3" back of motor by now though...
Tommorow, i'll know by then, the mystery will be solved.

 

sounds to me like someone didnt seperate the trans from the bellhousing.. cause damn.. i got a lakewood bellhousing and that sucker is HUGE but i could get it off easy.. without the trans attached to it.. and i have solid motor mounts which dont give a whole lot of "tilt" like regular bushing type mounts..

 

Yea, I just unbolted the bellhousing from the motor and i'm trying to remove it all at once. I guess I could unbolt the tranny from BH and go that way, 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other...

 

Geez, I owe you a cold one 5678TA, that made things much easier...

Alright, it's all out, but the results are inconclusive.

-When the tranny is in neutral, I can turn the input shaft, and hold the output shaft still. I can pop it into a gear and turn the input shaft and the output shaft turns. Tranny - ok


-When the car was being hooked up to the tow truck, the rear wheels would rotate along with the driveshaft. Rear end - ok

-Driveshaft is in one piece. Driveshaft - ok

-Clutch pressure plate looks fine, and friction disc is in one piece. TO bearings seems good. Any way to positively diagnose the friction disc?

The only thing I can think of is to just replace the clutch and try again, but the tranny isn't an "easy" thing to swap, so if i'm wrong.... Can anyone help point me in a direction?
And then can I just get away with a new friction disc? I'm REALLY low on funds until I get a job here...

 

Any way to positively diagnose the friction disc?
yeah look at how much material is left before it gets into the rivets, but to hear you tell it that disc would have to be wiped. you'd know as soon as you looked at it.

 

Look closely at the splines inside the clutch hub.

If those look OK, pop the side cover off the trans, and see what awaits you in there.

Also: when you say the drive shaft was turning as it was being towed, was it in gear? Because if it was in neutral, it's still possible that the rear is smoked.... very little force involved under those conditions, Even a tremendously wasted gear set might still work well enough to spin the drive shaft.

If all the trans stuff is inconclusive, pop the rear end cover next.

 

- Splines inside the clutch friction disc hub look good. beveled towards the tranny side, I assume that's supposed to be there?

- Yea, the car was moved around in neutral, and the driveshaft turned with the wheels. I had them use dollies on the back tires when they towed the car back to my house.

Can I check the rear without soaking myself in axle grease? ie, not removing the lid?

I'll pop the side cover off the trans, hopefully something obvious is looming.

I'll see if I can borrow a digital camera somehow..

 

Popped off the side cover of the tranny. Everything looks good and normal. Turn the input and a whole schwack of gears are moving (it was in reverse). Nothing broken or flailing around.

 

if its a hydrolic clutch u could of messed up the maser cylender.... if not u messed up the clutch disk or pressure plate

 

HAve to remove the cover. Also look closely at the pinion. Ive seen those get all the teeth stripped right off them. Could also be teeth missing off the ring gear at the location of the clutch dump.

 

Why is everyone so scared to pull the damn covers on their rear ends?!?!

Its only a couple bolts, then set a pan under it and pop the cover. done...

Not that big of a deal

 

Maybe it's the smell

 

Yea, I just came back from a movie and a good liter of fluid leaked out of the tranny onto my garage floor.... Attached garage. That amount of fluid is enough to stink up my house for days!
Well, since it already stinks...Might as well check the rear...

No, not a hydraulic clutch, and yes, i've got the pressure plate and friction disc off on the floor, both look fine Keep up!

Alright, i'll pop off the cover, but i'm fairly confident i'll find everything in one piece, since the driveshaft turned with the wheels.... But hey, it's an easy check, and I don't mind being wrong. I'll do that tommorow.

 

Hummmm maybe a shaft inside the trans let go. Since it's all apart now, put it in gear and spin the input shaft to see if the output shaft turns.

 

Like Cartman said turn the input shaft if all the guts turn and you can grab the output shaft tight and it turns with the input shaft the trans is ok. Since everyones is afraid of pulling the diff cover off slide under the car grab the yoke with one hand prop your foot under one tire grab the other tire with your free hand and spin the yoke. Only use minor resistance with the tires. If no tire moves or it kinda jumps around the rear has problems.

 

Yea, I did that, in my post #30, and #34.
I'll play with the rear end here and see if I can find anything wrong there...

 

Alright, rear end is fine. I didn't bother removing the cover, but the pinion moves with the tires. I can't stop one and keep moving the other, they are definately linked. I moved it a full rotation (pinion), and there was no "funky spots".

I guess i'll just replace the clutch and go from there. A stock one is $140 the cheapest place I could find it, but it's a few days away, none are in stock in this town.

 

ok, wayyy too many posts for me to read through and i havent really been keeping up...

Did you check the flywheel bolts yet? Maybe you sheared them off and now the crank spins free from the flywheel...?


But i guess the whole thing would have probably fell on your face once the input shaft came out of the pilot bearing/bushing if they were all sheared off...

 

yep, 'zactly. They all look fine.

 

Ouch, that sucks. And a bad time of the year for it to happen, too. Hope you didn't embarrass yourself in front of someone when it happened. :P

I admit I didnt read every word of every post, but it doesn't look like you have drained the tranny oil yet. Maybe try that for just that extra insurance that everything's ok inside.

 

Nah, "lucky" for me I was all by my lonesome that time.
Well, most of the fluid is all over the floor of my garage now... And i've popped off the cover on the side, and it looks fine, gears are all there (that I know of), no clumps of metallic dust, etc.

 

none needed sonix.. i had my share last night.. lol

one of my father's famous saying at home was "make it easy for yourself".. so i find ways and share with others in need..

did you happen to check if the input shaft rotates with the output??? could be sheared off at the output..

 

Yeah he checked that back in post 30 and had a look inside at 34. I missed those posts when replying

 

oops, my bad..