I was just reading about all the posts about 10bolts, well i dont know if anyone heard about this or if its new but one of my brothers friends and had a 89 camaro with 700hp on the stock v-6 rear end and not break...impossible right?

Well the place where im having my engine but has this thing called cryogenics(ill post the website later) but he had his whole rear end cryogenic and never broke and of course thats with one wheel spinning stock rear end no posi. I was just seeing if anyone else heard of this, what i hear its like heat treating but on steriods. I believe they use liquid nitrogen!

 

Don't bother, it won't be worth the price.

 

Im going to try to get ahold of my brothers friend to see how much it cost, i really dont think its that much, i bet its cheaper the getting a built rear end ill post to let yall know.

 

There's no such thing as a V6 10 bolt in a third gen. All third gens got the same 10 bolt. The only difference is if they got a posi or not and the gear ratio.

As for it's strength, the tiny 7.5"/7.625" ring and pinion can't handle big power. V6 cars have broken them on the street while BBC 11 second cars have made them survive at the track. No matter what you do to beef up the diff, the tiny ring and pinion will always be the weak link. If you're going to put 700hp to the diff, the 10 bolt will come to a quick death.

If you can afford to build a 700hp engine, the cost of a bolt in 12 bolt or 9" is cheap.

Uncorrected, I'm putting about 650hp to the wheels. Because of the altitude I race at, corrected it's closer to 750 hp but I've never had it on a dyno to know the exact number. I installed a 9" back when I started dipping into the 10's. At the same time I installed a transbrake and knew the 10 bolt wouldn't handle more than one hit from the transbrake.

 

thats what i was saying the car was orginally a v-6 keep all the stock internals with the rear end and had them cryogenic and it all survived with a 700hp 383, i dont know why he didnt at least put a posi in it cause it was just one wheel power to the ground.

here is the website, the guy who had this done to his stock v-6 rear end-this is hes dads shop.
http://www.houstonengine.com/cryotech.htm

 

First of all, I'm willing to bet that his "700 HP" 383 was a lot closer to maybe 400 HP.

Second, cryotreatment isn't a magic bullet. It isn't going to turn the steel gears into some kind of mythical unobtanium alloy that never breaks. It'll improve their resistance to wear. It'll do nothing to keep them from failing inside a light duty cast-iron case that distorts under load and allows misalignment.

 

It was 700HP! i saw the dyno sheet, that was at the flywheel but still 700HP and im saying it makes the metal alot stronger than just regular heat treating, and it can survive the stresses, im not just pullin this out of my butt im almost bought the car from him....cryogenic original V-6 rear end = handle 700HP

He was also running slicks on his car at the track

 

NASCAR cryogenics their tranny gears. They can get 2-3 races out of a set of gears instead of only one race. The gears still wear out just not as fast as before. The shock load on a tiny ring and pinion won't help the tiny teeth if they've been cryogenic frozen. They just won't wear as quickly. How often have you seen worn out diff gears if they've been set up properly?

Now take that tiny R&P and have them made out of titanium. They probably won't break but you could probably buy a few 12 bolts or 9" diffs for the same price.

I've seen lots of failed 10 bolts at the street legal races from cars putting out far less HP. Freezing the gears won't help when the case distorts and puts the gears out of alignment which then puts abnormal stress on the teeth.

Don't believe dyno sheets. They're not as accurate as everyone thinks. Put the engine into a car and get on a chassis dyno. What gets to the wheels is what counts. Take it to a track to see what it will do. With that much power, a good chassis and traction will be required. If not, 700 hp won't run 12's if the power can't get to the ground with an open diff and street tires. If you can't get power to the ground, you'll never hurt the diff.

Stop calling it a V6 diff. There is no such thing. It's a 7-1/2" 10 bolt. The 89 will be a 7-5/8". Not much of an improvement but nothing else in the diff is different.

 

So how did hes rear end handle that abuse then? you could obvouisly tell it was a stock 10 bolt, plus he told me? i just dont understand after seeing him put that 10 bolt what it went through and not tear apart
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Im not trying to call it a V-6 diff. just saying a diff that was connected to a v-6 ie no posi and gear ratio differance thats it.

 

It doesn't get abused. No posi and no traction means no abuse. With that much power, lets see how long his diff survives if he can pull off some 1.5x or lower 60' times. I'm guessing he might gets some 1.7x at best. Probably more in the 1.8x range.

 

so your trying to say cryogenics is not any better or the same as upgrading a rear end

 

Cryogentics prolongs wear. It doesn't increase the strength of the metal especially when there isn't enough metal there in the first place.

 

heat treated and cyrogenic is pretty much the same thing just different degree of level right?

 

No

 

Heat treating and cryogenics are the same concept. The metals microstructure is decided based on how quickly it's cooled, and how it's cooled. Ie, slow cool -> small round particles, like normalizing. Good toughness
Quick cool -> martinsitic, large platelike particles, strong, but like glass - very brittle. They shatter easily, poor toughness.
Quick cool, then reheat and slow cool -> This is a quench and temper type of thing. This is why you get good strength from 4340 when it's properly quenched and tempered.

Cryo - I imagine this just slowly lets some of your particles continue to form into smaller particles. I'd like to see more info on this from a heat treating point of view. Remember, your gears are just cast iron, there isn't much that heat treating can do to crappy materials. You can quench and temper 4340 and get good strength, you don't get squat from AISI 1020 steel eh?

 

as everyone else has tried to say, there are many variables at play. The rear didn't take the abuse of 700hp because it wasn't "seeing" it. If he had decent gearing, a posi and a LOT of suspension/chassis work so that the car was actually translating that power to the ground, he would have broke the diff. Since he had a stock geared, peg-legged car with some cheater slicks, he never hurt it because he never put that power to the ground. The alloy or special treatment of the gears matters none when the problem is gear size and housing flex. The gear is too small, therefore creates more flex, but also tolerates less flex. These rears can be built with upgraded parts to with hold a car into the 10's IF you run no lower(numerically higher) than a 3.73 gear. Anything lower has too small of a pinion, thus creates more flex than the gear can tolerate.

As others have said. Unless he was running a really good head and cam combination that was not at all streetable, he did not have 700 hp out of a 383 naturally aspirated. Boosted or bottle feed maybe.- My dad's blower car makes over 1500hp, so if I have his dyno sheets my car makes that too right?