mpb74

does anyone know how many rwhp is created when using an aluminum driveshaft? i'm not looking for exact numbers just an approx.

DJP87Z28

Just a guess less then 1or 2 RWHP if that. I have had one for a long time now and could not tell you if there is any difference. However; it is a nice upgade if you can get a good one for about $100, any more and I would pass.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

That might be hard to quantify. What you gain is less rotational weight. Theoretically the motor will rev up a little quicker.

mpb74

well, i have one in my garage with new u-joints. i was getting some opinions before i changed it out, not sure whether it's worth anything or not. i know that it's a few pounds lighter and bigger in diamiter, i just didnt know if i would feel any difference. i paid this guy 30 bucks for it, then i replaced the u-joints.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

You got a bargain. Swap it in. Shedding rotational mass is a good thing--even if the weight savings is marginal, IMO.

JamesC

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

The other benefit is the that they don't vibrate as much as the steel ones too, thus smother ride...

Raf

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

If the rear U doesn't fit, let me know and I'll get you a part number.

JamesC

mpb74

the shaft come out of a gta trans am. the guy who had it before me had his car towed and he disconnected the shaft from the rear and let it drag on the asphault. well, this ate up one of the ears around the u-joint on the back of the shaft,(side of shaft that bolts onto rearend). anyways, he weilded the aliminum back around the ear and i changed out the u-joints. so, it makes me a little uneasy when i think about turning this shaft 5500 rpm's. local shop says to try it and check for vib's.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

For those of you that are skeptic on the effects of this upgrade, or you simply want evidence to prove you didn't waste your money, check out the following link.
http://www.ws6.com/mod-1.htm

I know this was tested in a 4th gen but the effects should be very similar to what would happen in our cars.

Mike

BtownZ28

Nothing is created, it's less that is lost. You have it, throw in there!

mpb74

wow, 5lbs of torque, thats enough for me. thanks, mine will be installed by 2-11-09

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

I put a ls1 alum driveshaft with the dapener and wow

the vibrations are gone

redcatch32

Aluminum drive shafts can be a problem when installing a drive shaft loop or a after market torque arm. They do take up space in a very limited area of real estate on a third gen car. Can be done but it will be tight.
I believe that GM installed aluminum drive shafts on T top cars to get the weight down for Govt. fuel requirements. I don't believe it was intented as a performance item.

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

The aluminum would look a lot better than the rust orange stock one I got on now.

chevyracingrox

If your concerned about the U-joint ear breaking, you should post a picture of the area in question and we can give you our feedback. I'm sure it's a usable driveshaft though.

haha, i painted mine black, just to keep some of the rust from flaking off if I bump into it working on something else.

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

IDK if thats true or not? Well anyways my iroc has alluminum drums and an alluminum drive shaft. Ill post pics later of my DS. Use 400 grit sandpaper to smooth it out, then 1000 wet, then 000 steel wool wet, It is a MIRROR!!

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I think the aluminum driveshaft was part of an RPO code or part of some other package options. I don't think it was only for vehicles with T-tops.

This probably isn't safe, but could you put the car on jack stands and leave it in idle in first gear as you hold the sandpaper/steel wool against the driveshaft? Or would the slight angle the driveshaft is at make this difficult? I'm just wondering if this would be a simple way to add some beutificationess to my car. (making words is fun)

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

I just got the new car craft mag. This topic is the where im at in the mag right now. The vibration comes from the shaft Balance being off. Most shafts are balanced at around 3000 rpm's. If you want no vibration take it to a shop that can wind it up to 7000 or close to it. It is also true that a d/s can not make power, it frees up more of it. The only thing better then an aluminum shaft is a carbon fiber shaft. The stock u joints should be upgraded though. Also they stress that your al shaft with upgraded u-joints can only take 700hp if I remember right. lol.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Wow, only 700 hp...

I guess I need a carbon shaft since my 305 puts out around 1900hp. I even have a dyno sheet to prove it...

chevyracingrox

700 hp, well I'll might risk running one on my V6. the T5 is only rated to about 300 hp but hopefully the driveshaft can take it. lol.

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

Ya. I finished the article. The 700hp was just off the top of my head. It was wrong. They said its good to 900hp.

Redlinerevver

some one has to much time on there hands...

chevyracingrox

oh good, then I dont THINK I'll have to worry about it breaking on me. LOL. that would be very strange, if a driveshaft broke before these weak T5s.

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

No kidding. Glad to help

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

I think my car will make around 600hp on that paper dyno

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

No, its attention to detail, and BTW it took me less then 20 minutes to get it to shine.
How do you think i pay for everything i own? I work 7 days a week, farmers dont get holidays off, no silly "sick days" either. It takes work to feed a world of people.

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

Send the pic's man.

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

I'll take a pic tomarrow. The other pics are in the link on my sig.

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

farmers rock

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

89ROC-Z.... well im hungry! dnt u get time off when the crops are done?!? lol idk im from suburbia NJ.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

hahahahahahaha i just pissed myself. ouch! burnnnnn! thats a serious lil 305 u got there.



as far as the aluminum drive shaft.... they are good. whether it be 700-900hp... they will take more than most 3rd gens dish out. and they do help with vibrations... but if ur looking for a performance upgrade id stick with a DOM steel 3.5" aftermarket DS or a chromemoly DS. and call it a day

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

Pics of the shaft and everything else are in my sig link, the drive shaft is the last pic i just added tonite. And customblackbird, we milk holsteins (cows) so thats a 365 day a year job in itself, and i farm 600 acres of corn soybeans alfalfa and wheat

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea i didnt kno thats what u did. i was just asking. but i love milk!

Shadygrady

iTrader: (3)

I swear I noticed a difference when I put mine in.Just seems alittle quicker off the jump,and now will chirp 3rd gear.Never did that before.I`m not saying its from all the power it added but like stated the lowered rotational mass.

My T-Top equiped car came with j42 alluminum drums but not the alluminum driveshaft(j65 I think)I would think rear disc would be lighter than the alluminum drums.

mister_hudson

iTrader: (3)

Good stuff! The less vibrations the better!

About a $100-ish upgrade? Totally worth it!

vilespankmachin

Don't forget the curb weight you save and aesthetic appeal of a more durable part. Any chance you have to make your car lighter you should take, the lighter anything that moves is, the less stress there is on what moves it, also adding durability. Marginal in this case but just in general...

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

light isnt always better. they have super light flexplates but they arent great for drag cars. the heavier flexplate will actually launch the card harder due to more rotational mass. lighter is ok if u dont sacrifice durability and it fits ur needs. i would personally go with a larger DOM steel or chromemoly DS. stronger can take more of a beating.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I always thought turbo cars need everything as light as possible in order for the engine to get the turbo spooled up faster. The faster they get the turbo spinning, the faster they make the power they want. However, I do agree that there is a fine line between lightweight and durability.

vilespankmachin

Turbo spools based on exhaust flow & turbo size. Smaller turbo spools at lower RPM, larger turbo at higher rpm (overly simplified). Certain things that would overly affect the driveability of a naturally aspirated engine have less effect on a turbo engine, such as an exhaust that is too big, a flywheel that is too light, those sorts of things.

I didn't realize how spoiled I was have an aluminum driveshaft until I had to carry a regular one around, I had forgotten how heavy they were.

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

Also if the lighter shaft would help the "turbo" then it makes since that it would help every car. In order to make the spool faster you need to move more air at higher rpm's. If it helps the rpms go up faster, then whats it have to do with turbo on non turbo?

I dont see what you guys are getting at when you say durability is better while talking about a drive shaft that is indeed more durable, saves weight, makes the car faster, & better in every way then the stock shaft?

Shadygrady

iTrader: (3)

from what I understand the stock aluminum ones are superior to the stock steel ones for many reasons already mentioned.I also have heares the SPYCER Ujoints are the ones you want on these driveshafts.Thats what were stamped on mine and several people were asking where I got it fromfor the price.I could be wrong but from my searches the spycers are about as good as it gets for a streetable car with an alluninum driveshaft.With what little power I`m making it should be more than adequate.No 700-900 hp here

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

your basing it off a stock driveshaft. anything is better than a stock DS. aluminum is ok but they dont like sudden shocks to the drivetrain. aluminum is brittle compared to steel or moly. a clutch drop and a hard launch will destroy a aluminum shaft even if your not pushing 700-900hp. what u get with a aluminum DS is bascially less rotational weight... which gains as stated something stupid like 1hp lol. if you want to upgrade the DS and if your gona beat on it i wouldnt push it with a aluminum DS. a larger DOM or moly DS will take anything u can throw at it. and are balanced just as well if not better than aluminum shafts so the only upside is weight with a aluminum shaft. and the prices of aluminum compared to DOM isnt all that different.

the turbo has nothing and no affect to do with aluminum shafts. the turbo doesnt need great flowing heads like a NA engine does... sucking air in and pushing air in a head changes the wholeeee design of a head. ive seen stock l98 heads make max like 300-325crank NA hp that is fully worked ported etc... ive seen stock L98 heads with turbos making over 680rwhp. in other words great heads arent exactly needed on a turbo car. same thing with light weight drivetrain parts. spooling up faster can be attchieved with increased stall speed/harder higher RPM clutch drops etc to build the boost that is needed... this increases shock to the drivetrain and will break lightweight parts. lightweight parts are not needed. notice why racers always have higher stalls and drop clutches are higher RPMS. durabilty and strength are whats needed. a lightweight flywheel altho lets the engine spin alil faster doesnot like hard launches or heavy cars.

as i stated a heavier steel DS just like heavier flexplate have more rotational mass and can launch harder and take more of a beating. lighter parts like DS and flexplates have minimal effect on increasing HP over steel. most of us just care about strength or balance issues at higher speeds, this can be fixed with aluminum, DOM or Moly DS. depends on how ur gona drive the car, the power your gona make or the strength your going to need

there was a test on a lightweight flexplate over a heavy duty flexplate and the lightweight one allowed slightly faster revs but the heavier flex plate allowed harder launches and faster 60' due to spinning more mass and a hard launch meany more rotational power to spin the wheels. like hitting a seesaw with a reg hammer and then a sludge hammer... the sludge will move the seawaw faster. tests on the street with the lightweight DS/flexplate made no real difference on the car in the street. the aluminum DS has most of the ppl who install it on the placebo affect. they kno its there so they kno or feel it rev faster or something.

basccally if your just upgrading your stocker DS then an aluminum one is fine. but if your gona do anything with the car like slicks and track use and are making good power like 500 or more i woulnt push an aluminum DS. spend alil more for a DOM or moly DS. even putting a DOM DS on a stock car will increase performance like smoother high speed driving etc. moly being the best of course. lightweight and strong as hell.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Ok I was wrong it wasn't the lightweight driveshaft turbo people want, it's the lightweight flywheel.

How can you say it is just a placebo effect when the link I posted showed a decent gain on an actual dyno graph for a similar car? The proof is there!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

1.1hp and 5fts is not something that can be felt. as stated its more of a placebo affect. affects on daily driving or at the track would prove no increased results that can be felt or shown in something as decreasing 1/4 mile ET time. most ppl who "can feel the increased hp" from a aluminum DS swap are full of poo... that is why its a placebo affect. put someone in the same car and do a DS swap and not tell them u did it.... i bet they couldnt tell the diff.

how is 1.1hp and 5ftlbs a decent gain? more power can be gained for less money.

and lightweight flywheels arent great when strength is needed... like ina turbo. the diff in HP/tq and increased rev speed is neglegable when u compare the strength you are compromising. esp when u think about the flexplate and how it connects the power the motor sticks out to the trans... the flexplate has to deal with alot of forces and power.

why dont they put aluminum gears in rear ends! if everyone is so worried about saving weight from flexplates and DS... aluminum rears would save alot of unsprung weight and help with less rotationall mass... reason being they rears would break into pieces. the use of aluminum/lightweight in critical peices of the drivetrain is altho ok for low powered cars is not smart in consideration when these peices see alot of stress. and i wouldnt put a aluminum DS on my car with 500hp for a gain of 1.1hp and 5fts, in fear of snapping it with a good launch.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Your right 5ftlbs of torque isn't much at all when added to a 500hp motor, but what about the rest of us with unmodded engines? Id be willing to bet that more then 60% of the people on these boards have stock motors or motors with only the simplist mods performed. To them, 5ftlbs is a nice number. Yes you are right, $1xx is a lot for the little gain, but what about people like myself that get lucky and find the driveshaft at a junkyard for $30. Even my little 305 TPI with an amazing 190(0) hp can still appreciate the swap. As many (you too if I'm not mistaken) have said, it helps cut down on driveline vibrations which is a good thing for everyone... Especially if you daily drive your car like a majority of the people on here do.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

5ftlbs isnt alot added to a stock motor either. thats like saying u felt the power increase on a stock motor from a TB coolant bypass lol.

i posted that if u were just upgrading your stock DS to aluminum is not a bad choice but if u were gona make any kind of power out of the motor then u should look into something stronger. 30$ isnt bad and i would do the same thing to get rid of my stocker. but the stock aluminum DS from the LS1s arent that strong even compared to aftermarket aluminum DS. doesnt matter to what motor u put it on. even a 500hp motor will only gain the same as on a 190hp motor. takes the same amount of hp to turn it. most ppl wont pay over 100$ for a stock LS1 DS... there not worth it at that point. but if u want to squeeze all the power out of a motor i could see it as a mod... but only for a stock to sumwhat modded motor. just dont want ppl thinking "hey i got a aluminum DS" and that i can make power and not worry about it.

but dont think that 5ftlbs is decent power... thats like a 20degree drop in outside temp and a cooler intake charge.

it also depends on ur driveshaft and how bad of shape its in. i have been up to 130mph in mine with stock DS and ive had no vibrations. so upgrading to a aluminum isnt necessary.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Just wondering. What info do you have to support that statement?

JamesC

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

"The stock aluminum is junk. if you have any kind of cam and expect to hit the track, I would recommend a Strange 3" chromoly. I got mine with 1350 yokes and u-joints (for my 9") and it was $295 shipped and can handle 1000 HP. I am far from that but its nice knowing it can handle anything I can put at it.

Cheap insurance for what can happen if your weak stock one were to fail."

guy from LS1.com

another guy

I personally saw a couple scrap GM aluminum DS that had failed - most from cars that were either stock or only slightly modded. The aluminum gage that is used is very thin to cut down in cost/weight. Needless to say it looked as if someone had just twisted it apart by hand - the metal looked as if it were paper. That was my 1st reason to get a new DS!
found here... http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5483

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

carbon fiber driveshaft = waste of time unless you are rich. do yourself a favor and spend the money on something that will produce more HP...cuz im sure you won't be losing that much weight in the driveshaft, and youll be risking the possibility of shredding the driveshaft apart. if ANYTHING id go with aluminum, but still theres better things to spend your money on.

Are you retarded?!?! So your saying that a carbon fiber driveshaft is a waste of time and to keep the stock one??? Have you ever been to the track before? I can't tell you how many snaped driveshafts Iv seen on cars running over 400hp. A carbon fiber driveshaft can handle in upwards of 1000hp so I dont know where your geting your facts from. So you stick with your aluminum driveshaft and just keep adding hp. We will see whos car is on a tow truck first.
oneBADDz
03-07-2006, 07:00 PM
I have mixed feelings over the carbon fiber ds. I have seen the aluminum snapped on cars not putting out insanely high hp numbers. Get a couple of bolt ons and some traction mods and you have more than enough to kill it, so I agree that something better is needed, especially when you get LCAs TA drag radials etc. I just can't justify so much $$$$ for carbon fiber. Anyone that has seen how thin the stock aluminum ds is once it's twisted in half understand's capster's point of view though. Once you see inside of that thing you won't trust it much longer

ive been reading this stuff for years. they are just weak. the aftermarket ones are thicker and better but still the dont like to twist. aluminum is just weak compared to steel or moly.

Shadygrady

iTrader: (3)

Personaly know people who run stock third gen alluminum driveshafts besides me.One had a 383 superam with a 200 shot.It held up.Another guy running tens with a turbo Iroc.It holds up.I`m sure its not the strongest DS out there but thats enough proof for me.