l just installed a 3.73 ring and pinion, in place of a 2.73, the 3.73's are by richmond. after installing them (yesterday) l drove the car around and heard a major whining noise obviously from the rear end, so today, l took it all apart, and noticed there were no shims behind the pinion, and it was loose, l put some shims in it, and the pinion spins freely and has no play whatsoever, then l lined the ring gear up with it, with 870ths of an inch of backlash (its supposed to have 900ths) but allows as much as 400ths of an inch. if that sounds confusing lll sum it up and say the backlash is practically perfect. that being done, l installed the caps, shims, and bearings, and marked the gear pattern, its exactly where its supposed to be. the reverse is just a little high, but not off the gear and its not bottoming out. after about 16 hours of adjustments and removing/replacing the carrier, its all together, and full of synthetic lube. l drove it around the block and theres a massive whining noise that starts at around 7 MPH and gets increasingly worse as you increase the speed. after letting off the gas theres more of a grinding noise as it slows down. l did this twice, and removed it again and looked. nothing is off our out of whack. I've run out of patience and I've run out of things to do. I'm at wits end, and wondering if this is just the break in? or is this what richmonds do? and my final question is how much do you guys think a dealership would charge to adjust it?

thanks a lot in advance.

 

it's sounds to me like you need to go back and reread the instructions that richmond packs with each gear set they sell. the back lash should be more like .008 and you should be checking the pinion depth and not randomly installing shims.

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ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd
MM Black Diamond 538 F&AM

 

right, I meant by 900ths .009, but it says there can be an increment as much as .400 off. and I didnt just install shims every here and there, I did exactly as the instructions stated. also, I referred to the service manual of the Camaro, and did what was nesscary. I measured backlash, and followed the instructions in the service manual, and in the richmond manual (which werent very explicit) to a T.....something certainly isn't right, and like l said, l can't keep up with this much longer. I need to find some prices, anyone know off hand what it might cost to have it re-adjusted?

 

Possibly when the pinion wasn't tight enough you wrecked one of the bearings which is starting to go out on you... Or, pinion depth is wrong. You put .035" of shim under the pinion head bearing and no other place? right? Thats the only place to put a shim on the pinion so you must of had to pull the bearing off since is pressed fit and possibly damaged the bearing doing this? You didn't overtighten the pinion nut did you?

If you have .035" of shim under the head bearing (up against the gear as the fist thing you put on) and proper backlash either a bearing is going/gone or you overtightened the pinion nut.

 

mouse if you have no better grasp of measurements than you've shown here you ought to get someone to check it for you. if you set the gears up the way they were marked by richmond you shouldn't haver any problems. richmond gears do tend to be a little noiser then gm or other aftermarket gear sets.

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ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd
MM Black Diamond 538 F&AM

 

ok- l don't understand what you mean by "a better grasp of measurements." ok the measurements of backlash, as it stated in the instructions are supposed to be ".009, with room for error of .004". I finally got it right. (.008)the pinion depth is perfect. no play and a decent amount of resistance. I got it all together finally. put it on the ground filled it up with fluid and got it out on the road. l get a little bit of a whine under throttle after 1st gear. coasting it's dead silent. coming to a stop no noise at all. is this how its supposed to be? I've never used richmond gears muchless installed a rearend so I'm learning. anyone thats had experience with the gear could l get your thoughts?

 

my problem was when l tightened the pinion down the backlash was almost perfect, what happened was the crush sleeve didnt crush. when l got it on the road it did exactly what happened as l stated above. the pinion was running into the carrier which really sucked. it chewed up the carrier, but the gear was just fine. I'm hoping l didnt do any invisible damage to the gear causing it to whine a bit. after l ran it for about 10 miles l felt the diff case. i didnt feel unusally hot but just right.

 

The gears are pretty tough, the bearings and races may have been damaged. I know it's pretty hard to crush the collar, I almost had the car fall off the jackstands and crunch me trying to tighten mine.. Thats why I don't do gears with the rear in the car anymore. My richmonds whine a little bit with the right settings and bearing preload.

 

tightening the pinion nut has nothing to do with pinion depth or back lash. from what you said you never checked the preload on the pinion bearings. did you set the pinion depth with a mike or pinion setting tool, doesn't sound like it. did you check back lash with an indicator? what was the preload on the carrier bearings?

 

This is why I tell people not to install their own gears. This is one of the few things that takes a professional with years of experience to do.

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I agree w/ the others. There is ALOT more to setting up a rear than just backlash and pattern. You couldn't have followed the instructions and book "to a T" based on the information given. I know for a fact that the Richmond gears instructions tell you to use a .035" Pinion shim, because I have a set of Richmonds. Also bearing preload, not just for the pinion, but side carrier bearings is critical. Obviously, none of them were checked.

What worries me is that you said you drove it, and took it back apart and the pinion was loose. This may have worn a bad pattern into the gears and they may never be right again. Unfortunatly, I can't give you advice from here because I have know way of knowing the extent of the damage. You may just have to tuck your tail between your legs and take it to somebody experienced in this field.

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Well the general rule is to use the same size pinion shim that came off of the old pinion, because this shim fits that particular case. using Richmond gears sometimes this doesnt work too well. I hate Richmond gears.

Backlash should be between .008 and .012 and preload on the pinion bearings should be around 20-22 inch pounds.

Seeing that you drove it while it made a pretty bad noise, I would agree with the others here and take it entirely apart and chack all of the bearings for damage.

 

ede- l was able to get a mic in the back and measure it which took a little imagination, backlash was .009 and the preload l think was at 21 in. lbs.(the first time l ran it l didnt have nearly enough bearing preload) l think the first time l drove it it did wear a nasty pattern into it, like someone stated. it whines a tiny bit above 10 mph, and starts to go away at around 25 mph. l broke it in like what was stated (drive it for 10 miles let it sit for a half hour.) well instead of letting it sit for a half an hour l let it sit over night) the whining is getting progressively weaker, and start to quit almost completely after its nice and warm. tonight l drove it, l drove it for the third time on a break in run. my car usually runs at around 190 degrees, a little higher in hot weather, and stop and go traffic, a small amount higher. tonight l drove it, it was 90 degrees outside and very very humid. my car ran about 20 degrees warmer than it normally does, could this be a result of a higher gear ratio?

thanks for the responses guys

 

i can't begin to think how you'd check back lash with a mike ,i use a indicator, but if you did fine. i check pinion depth with a 2-3 depth mike and a fixture i made to use as a datum surface. i check bearing preload with a in/lbs dial type torque wrench. unlike some of the others here i don't believe setting up gears is a "black art" but it does require some tools most people don't have and an understanding of close tolerances.

 

l measured backlash with a dial indicator, and measured pinion depth with a mic, its pretty much impossible to check backlash with a mic, but its possible (l think) to check pinion depth with a dial indicator. l had a hard time getting the mic in the proper position, and a kept touching it on something every time l'd go to read it, it took a lot of patients and time but l finally got it, and l appreicate your guy's help. thanks again