yes,
only the input shaft from the v6 is smaller because is tappered, so if we get the imput shaft we want we can just swap them and it'll fit.
i have both and opened them only to find out internally they are identical.
i haven't tried yet to swap the shafts (cause my car is running) but as soon as i got my tranny out i'll try it and keep you posted guys, or...did somebody ever try this?
thanks to all and...
KEEP ON ROLLI'N
Fernando.

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third gen muscle power is the only thing that can match the power of flight...

 

ok heres the deal, the v6 trans has different gear ratios specifically for the v6`s powerband, and from what i have heard the v6 t-5s are weaker than the already weak v8 t-5s, when i was in desperate need of a trans i was considering modifying a clutch disk to accept the smaller 14 spline v6 input shaft so as to put it behind my motor, and i was pretty much advised not too, so give it a try if you want but it may not be worth the effort, try doin a search and see what you come up with this topic has been discussed before..

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87 IROC-z 305 TPI
Borg Warner T-5 fresh rebuild
10-bolt 3.73 Richmond gears rebuilt GM posi,
formerly BW 9-bolt w/3.45 gears(broke it)
Ported Plenum and Runners Homemade AFPR
ACCEL 8.8 wires, High output coil,and cap & rotor
Bosch platinum + 4 plugs
Ram Air w/ K&N filters,
MAF sensor screens removed, TB coolant bypass
Polyurethane tranny and torque arm mounts
Gutted Cat, Dynomax Headers & catback w/custom tips
K&N oil filter,Mobil 1 synth,Factory Oil Cooler, Futura GLS Super Sport tires 265/50/15 rear and 235/60/15 front mounted on 86 monte carlo SS rims.

406 siamesed TPI in progress

 

The easiest, cheapest way to get a V8 clutch gear is to buy a junk trans.

So let's see here, I've got a 6-cylinder trans with crappy gears and a V8 trans with better gears sitting on the floor... I have 2 choices...

I can either take both of them all apart, mix & match the parts, spend a couple of hundred $$$ on misc soft parts like bearings & such, that way I can put my crappy gears back in the car....

or, I can just stick the V8 box in, and have a 6-cylinder one still intact that I could sell to help pay for the V8 one.... somebody help me out here, I'm having a tough time figuring out which one of these makes more sense....

You are also aware of course that the V8 and 6-cylinder clutch gear has a different number of teeth, and therefore gear diameter, than the 6-cylinder one? That means you'd have to swap the countergear over as well.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

[This message has been edited by RB83L69 (edited November 14, 2001).]

 

ok, sorry i wasn't clear,
if i had money...i'd install a T-56 and have a ball like any smart guy do. comprende?
but that not being the case and happening to have that extra tranny (v6 crap)... in the event of a failure of my already weak nwc t5 the solution could be a temporary fix 'till i can get a good one, that could help a lot of fellas who may find themselves in the same predicament...no need to be an aircraft mechanic to figure this out.
and as far as materials i consider it will be more expensive (therefore stupid) for GM to comision the design and development of a weak tranny specially for the v6 (a couple of zillion dollars?), it'll be much easier just to taper the shaft to accomodate the smaller disc.
let's make clear we're talking about nwc T-5
i deeply apologize for making you guys that mad, i just wanted to give the idea as a temp. fix for the guys not so fortunate.
thanks for your comprehension...
by the way did somebody tried this before?
Fernando.

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third gen muscle power is the only thing that can match the power of flight...

 

There are reasons why no one tries stuff like this. Can you guess why?

 

Ive got a clutch shop making me a 10.4" disc with my old 14 spline V6 disc hub in the middle of it. Im bolting my V6 T5 to a LG4 305. Im gonna use this set up til I save enough dough to by and strengthen a WC T5. I will be road racing this car, so, Im sure something will wear out eventually, but I think the V6 T5 will last for a while behind a 190-200hp LG4. In SCCA A/Sedan road racing, they are using T5's behind 350hp 305's. So, I think the V6er will last for a bit without problem. I wont be drag racing and doing power take offs, so Im not to worried.

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Mike D. 87 Firebird 2.8L 5speed with V8 swap in the works.

 

good point bro.
sure if you have already a 400hp 350 or whatever then it'll make no sense, if you have that kind'a money for that much power go with something juicy such as a T-56 but there are quite a few thousand guys with the 305 in it without that much power, for these that mod.v6.t-5 will work as fine at least for a while.
another point will be ...how many thousand perfectly good v6 t-5 are being scrapped just because nobody wants them, and they could be a real "el cheapo" fix for the poor (like myself).
my point is that the v6t5 is AS WEAK as the nwc T5 we use on v-8's, no more, no less.
and thanks to everybody for your oppinions, things like this proves that freedom and democracy lives within us and will always live. (the bad guys are DOOMED)
Fernando.

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third gen muscle power is the only thing that can match the power of flight...

 

the v-6 trans(out of earlier third gen) is rated at around 200 ftlb of torque, the v-8 t-5 is rated at 265 lbft(non wc). In a v-8 swap guide for s-10's, the author says not to use v-6 trans. it could be catistrophic.(according to him) something about the trans breaking and locking up while the driver was accellerating on the highway, locking the rear wheels.

 

I would say that if you're a smart driver and dont beat the hell out of the t-5, it'll last for a little bit anyway.

 

exacto compadre, i say a long time if you're nice to it.

 

heres one question and it might have already been answered but how are you going to bolt up the v6 t-5 to a v8 engine? the bolt patterns are different.

 

I'd say... dont say anything at all if it's gonna be a stupid comment RSroller.

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1992 Z28 5.7 TPI

ZZ4 longblock
Harland Sharp roller rockers
Accel base and SLP siamesed runners,
52MM SLP Throttle Body
Hooker Headers & Flowmaster catback
MSD6A ignition
aluminum driveshaft
World Class 5-speed

 

I aggree you can use a v6 tranny behind a v8
In my car right now I have a nwc v6 tranny behind a 350. I didn't have to modify anything. I'm using the stock v6 clutch disc between a v8 flywheel and pressure plate. It works fine as long as you don't beat on it too mutch. I still get on it I jsut don't dump the clutch. This is getting me around just fine until I can find a t56. To go behiond my 383 build up. I got 10K on the thing and no signs of it going.

 

With a 3.42 rear, and a V6 T5, the final ratio is about 14:1 or close to it. That means a h#ll of a lotta torque multiplication. It would almost be like a 450'lb engine with a standard V8 T5. Although you have to change into 2nd before getting through the intersection! My cousin put one in his 305 TPI, with the 305 bellhousing of course. The problem is the 14 spline input shaft, and having to get a clutch disk. No problem easy/quick fix. They don't like to last that long though. The weakest gear being 3rd. My cousin was trying to pass someone on the Highway, cruising at 75km/h (47 mph for all you southern folk)in 5th. He put the tranny into 3rd, let the clutch out, and there was a big/bad noise. Needless to say, the car didn't go much further. Not the kind of shifting I recomend, but the tranny should take it no problem, providing the speed isn't excessive. The result was the sheering off of every tooth of the 3rd gear, and the matching counter shaft gear! Maybe it had some cracks in it before, or some teeth were missing, or something. Bottom line, the V6 tranny can be fun, but be extremely carefull...

 

crucial Whats wrong with you? I asked a question, it wasn't a comment. My question still hasn't been answered. So f*ck off crucial.

 

dear RSroller,
first i think the other guy didn't mean to hurt not only you but everybody (that would be bloody stupid from his part)let's just call it a missunderstanding, relax and keep on rolli'n babe.
about your question, i had the same inpression before but latter found out that the bellhousing is not part of the tranny.
in the sense that it sometimes gets glued to the tranny case but just removing the 4 big bolts attaching tha tranny to the bellhousing (15mm socket?) and some good hammering with a 2by4, technically done (=carefully), then, the tranny mounts are 2 on the left and 2 on the right and they fit on the V8 bellhousing.
just remember, the tranny will fit like a glove BUT the input shaft is smaller, so going back to my point is that we could try swapping the input shaft ONLY from the old V8 tranny into that v6 one and still use the same disc and everything.
the procedure to do so only takes a 13mm socket and some silicon sealant (and 10 minutes of our precious times.
if any Q's feel free to e-mail me anytime compadre.
another piece of info, the good guys from "the gear heads or something, home of the bench-cam" have an overhaul manual for the T5 at 17 buks (only one book includes the WC and the nwc T5 and by the way doesn't mention anything about the v6 or V8 being different)
Fernando.


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third gen muscle power is the only thing that can match the power of flight...

 

OK sorry guys. I got a litle pissed. Thanks for clearing that up with me. and as for crucial sorry about going off on you but that post wasn't nessicary. hope we can put this behind us. later.

 

dear RSroller...
you're a gentleman and if you need anything... you know where to find me.
Fern.

 

Anyone got a V6 input shaft handy? My V8 input shaft has 24 teeth.
Here's a true story: Shortly after swapping the V8 into the SC, I needed to replace the countergear shaft in the 84 V8 T5. I thought it would be a simple matter to go to the tranny shop and order one...wrong! The dude at the parts counter told me he'd need a 'tooth count' for every gear on the shaft, because there are over 30 different combinations for the non-WC T5 internal gearing, V6 and V8 combined. That meant removing the trans and dis-assembling it again to count the teeth. Got the shaft, and instead of throwing it into the stressed-out (and leaking) V8 case, I put all the V8 stuff into the SC's original V6 case. I did this over a year and a half ago and have not had any problems; I'm using semi-synthetic 75W90 gear oil.
I guess all this means is that not just any V8 input shaft will work in a V6 trans.

Pete

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Pete's Place
HiOutput Tech Page

83 SC..former V6...now 216+k mile LG4/5-speed.. 14.891@95.54

 

ok,this might sound weird, but this is how i did it on my 91 Z L98, lakewood 11" bell(used $150) 87 camaro v6 parts car ($300) used the pedals, master, slave, and tranny from the parts car, hurst shifter( $250 at cost from work) flywheel from an astro with a 4.3 and t5, ( 4.3 has one peice rear main, and the astro used an 11" clutch,bought a centerforce stage 1 clutch for the astro( same spline as Fbody v6 t5, and boom, it works great for now, pulls like hell through 1-3, and im still only revving 2000 at about 100kms/h, hasnt broken yet,( cars off the road, but i drove it for 2 1/2 months, HARD because i wanted to see if it would, but it didnt, little sticky shifting, but that was ever since i did the swap and it freed up a bit, but the tranny sat for about 9 months and i only paid $300 ( all canadian prices) for the car, now i'm gonna rebuild that tranny for now b/c my buddy does it for a living, and do my motor this winter, then all i have to save for next summer is a six speed!!!

 

ok guys, i got a v6t5 input shaft on hand and...
it's a 14 spline, and 21 teeth on the gear and 25 little ones behind it, so...
if our good friend's V8t5 input shaft has 24 teeth then IT WON'T FIT, so the only solution could be...
to get the disc from that...what was that? astro? anyway it'll have to be 10 3/8" dia. or get someone to fabricate the right meassurments.
Let's be clear!!! the purpose of this idea is to get a quick "el cheapo" temp. fix 'till getting a WC or better tranny, when you're busted and it's your only car and you badly need it to go work or school or whatever.
DO NOT DARE TO RACE ANYONE IF YOU'RE ILL EQUIPPED WITH THAT v6t5 TRANNY.
let's see if somebody else has another piece of info or oppinion
Fernando.


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third gen muscle power is the only thing that can match the power of flight...

 

Ummm.... the "el cheapo" quick fix that does work and is proven to work is get an early (84) V6 clutch disc (9 11/16) for 15 bux at your local parts store, use the V8 pressure plate and stock flywheel and a regular V6 T5, no swapping gears, no if's and maybe's it works, been there done that, worked fine on my LG4 as i beat on it brutally, have a nice day, hope this helps

 

I got my V8 clutch disc with 14 spline V6 hub in the middle yesterday. I bought the proper 26 spline V8 disc and shipped it and the origonal V6 disc to a place to have it done. It ended up costing my nothing for the work, just the price of shipping. I put it on the input shaft last night and its perfect. The 305 will get bolted to the V6 T5 tranny on Saturday hopefully. Ill post after its done.

 

yeah, i've had both a v-6 and v-8 t-5 behind a 350 with a comp cams 268Hydraulic, maybe a 250 horse motor(small heads, pre-86, low compression) with a lame high way gear, and no posi. The v-6 trans lasted for awhile, we ran these in a malibu wagon, took us from NJ to florida twice, once with the v-6, once with the v-8 one. The v-6 still worked when we took it out, but the v-8 one broke, go figure(blasted a couple teeth off of the input shaft) We used a v-6 clutch disk, you just have a smaller surface area for the disk, but in the car we had, it worked fine. I wouldn't push either with much more motor though. We swapped in a tremec (non TKO) no problems with that at all.

 

Im gonna do it behind a LG4 with headers and 30 degree backcut valves and a 3" Dynomax bullet muffler. Im hoping to get maybe 10-12 extra hp at best, so Im not to concerned with a 180-185hp motor with 245 ft. lb. of torque.

 

another point to remember will be to keep it open differential, it'll be easier on the tranny, or if you already got a posi or limited slip... be reeeaaalll careful.
myself i'm planning to install my v6 tranny while overhauling my V8T5 (old and tired before anything happens but only as a preventive maintenance)
too bad that the GM engineers (brainless in this case) haven't thought about a good 5 speed tranny for the third gens when the time was on... shame on them !
the muswang morons were way smarter.
Fernando.

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third gen muscle power is the only thing that can match the power of flight...

 

hey guys

i think i am also going to be putting a V6 T5 behind an LG4...........................................i figure if i dont beat on it.......it will last me until i have the dought to put a T56 in......................................

i guess i just need a clutch disc with either the hubs swapped or the clutch from a 4.3 astro.....................................

 

i think 4.3 astro will be a direct fit.
please keep us informed.
Fernando.

 

mild 327.. bw 9 bold 3.27 posi rear.. nwc V6 T5.. breaking tranny mounts left and right.. a couple of seals.. but still working
btw.. 327 and a V6 T5 = stupid idea.. too much shifting.. loosing precious seconds...
now.. 327 and a powerglide... that's sweet.

 

yeah the only reason i am doing it is so i can get my car up and running, because i am getting the T5 for CHEAP!

then when it expires i should have enough $$$ for a T56

and it will be easier to convert to a T56 because the car will be manual..........

 

bird of prey, you sound like a Klingon (kapla son of fern)
a 327 on a 87 bird? how does it feel?
i got a 327 at home myself, and i was planning to re-build and put in on my 87RS, with a nwct5 ('till i can get my tremec on T-56) it's so damn hard to find those here in canada.
personally i like better manual trannys, i shift when i want (i have control) but it's just a matter of taste.
Fernando.

 

the 87 has what's in the sig plus a different cam other then the penut cam that was factory.. still an auto LB9..
the 327 is in a 84 V6 that got a new heart.. 327.. also put in the TA hood and gfx..
trying to find those gfx for my 87 formi..
the 84 is.. KO'd for now.. needs a new rear end..

 

Alright, guys- I got one for ya. My gf's got an S-10 Blazer project with a pretty well built 4.3L V6 in the works (we're aiming for close to 250-275hp), and she wants to put an f-body T5 in it. What are thoughts about the V6 T5 holding up behind this, or would this still be a no contest and to go with the V8 type? Was there ever a WC V6 model and if so, what were the differences in ratings? Thanx for any advice