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Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

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Old Mar 30, 2010 | 08:11 AM
  #51  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Yeah its a stock one. I would love a nice Lakewood bellhousing but I'm already over budget and just dont have $400+ to spend on it. I planed on running this for now, the later on upgrading to a SFI bellhousing and (I think I could do this then) run a 168 tooth flywheel and larger clutch.
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Old Mar 30, 2010 | 07:01 PM
  #52  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Well I figured I'd post some of the progress I've made. The trans has been completely torn down for a few days now. I did get the 5/6 syncro rebuilt today and got the shaft with the 5 and 6 gears put back together.



Also, everyone keep your fingers and toes crossed. I found someone selling a Lakewood bellhousing on Craigslist for cheap. He said it has a bracket comming off the side of it near the opening for the fork so I'm really hoping its the one I need. I'm going tommorrow to get it. Its an hour drive for me so I'm really hoping it is the right one.
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Old Mar 31, 2010 | 08:26 PM
  #53  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

I got the bellhousing tonight but its not the 84-92 specific one. Its the basic one, part number 15000. Correct me if I'm wrong but the height of the bellhousing is the same as the one made for my car. I figured fabbing up a bracket to hold the slave wouldnt be that big of a deal. However I am considering looking into what it would take to use a hydraulic throwout bearing.

Last edited by built91Z28; Mar 31, 2010 at 08:43 PM.
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Old Apr 1, 2010 | 01:29 AM
  #54  
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Car: `86 SS / `87 SS
Engine: L69 w/ TPI on top / 305 4bbl
Transmission: `95 T56 \ `88 200-4R
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Different between the 15015 (fits 84-92 F) and 15000 are the fork angle and the ballstud location, plus the slave bracket (and 15015 gets the angled T5 mounting bolt holes)

If you did fab a bracket, the stock 84-97 slaves won't move the mech. fork enough; the hyd. forks needed less movement at the slave due to the different ballstud location.

Maybe run an 84-92 F bell until you can find a 15015...
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Old Apr 1, 2010 | 02:50 PM
  #55  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Would it hurt anything if I dont run a transmission mount and instead bolt the trans directly to the crossmember? I am already running solid motor mounts. This Saturday I'm hoping to get the old trans out and start fabbing up a new crossmember for the T56. If I dont have to run a mount then that makes the crossmember easier to make and may give me a little more room to put the exhaust. The last part I'm not sure about. I'd have to get the trans in then figure out the exhaust.
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Old Apr 1, 2010 | 04:15 PM
  #56  
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From: MN
Car: 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP
Engine: LS3
Transmission: 6L80E
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

I vote no to that idea. The mount serves a few purposes

1. Isolate vibrations
2. Keep proper driveline angle (default location)
3. attach trans to crossmember


You need a mount...whether that mount is the real thing or a stack of washers (not recommended)...
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Old Apr 1, 2010 | 07:45 PM
  #57  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

As far as the angle goes, that doesnt matter becuase I'm making a crossmember from scratch. The vibrations is the only one I was worried about. I know my motor/trans isn't moving due to the solid motor mounts, but there would still be vibrations and I didnt know how well the tailshaft could deal with them.
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Old Apr 2, 2010 | 11:48 AM
  #58  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Got the mainshaft completly taken apart. Found one thing that I'm not sure if its broken or should be like this. Maybe you guys who have torn these apart can help me. Its the needle bearing under 1st gear. It has a metal cage. Is it supposed to have a break in it like the plastic ones do? I cant tell if it is broken or should be like that. If you put the two bearings back in and hold it together everything stays in.



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Old Apr 2, 2010 | 12:19 PM
  #59  
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From: Elkton MD, USA
Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
Engine: 427 sbc, HSR
Transmission: T-56, self rebuilt 700+ hp
Axle/Gears: Moser 12bolt, 3.42 trutrac
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

No, it's not suppose to be broken. I've seen many like that, and I'm never quite sure if it's wear that breaks them, or the previous rebuilder. There's such a close tolerance between the needle bearings and the mainshaft, that they all have to be aligned perfect to fit down over the mainshaft. The trick is to install it inside of the 1st gear so it helps align them.. Of course if the cage is cut, it fits onto the mainshaft easily..
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Old Apr 2, 2010 | 12:29 PM
  #60  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Awesome. Now I need to try to find where I can buy the one bearing from.
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Old Apr 2, 2010 | 12:40 PM
  #61  
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From: Elkton MD, USA
Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
Engine: 427 sbc, HSR
Transmission: T-56, self rebuilt 700+ hp
Axle/Gears: Moser 12bolt, 3.42 trutrac
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Originally Posted by built91Z28
Awesome. Now I need to try to find where I can buy the one bearing from.
I'm pretty-sure thegearbox.org will, but I can only imagine you'll get killed on shipping..
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Old Apr 2, 2010 | 12:45 PM
  #62  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

yeah thats what i was thinking. I didnt want to spend the same on shipping as I do the part. I'm going to try NAPA tomorrow. Here at work the only thing we can get is the entire bearing set and my price is over $200. Going by the different prices on the rebuild kits on thegearbox.org it looks like it would cost about $100 for everything from them.
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Old Apr 2, 2010 | 12:57 PM
  #63  
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From: Elkton MD, USA
Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
Engine: 427 sbc, HSR
Transmission: T-56, self rebuilt 700+ hp
Axle/Gears: Moser 12bolt, 3.42 trutrac
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Yup. Shame you're not closer.. I've got a whole bag of used ones in good shape.
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Old Apr 2, 2010 | 03:04 PM
  #64  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Here are some pics of the mainshaft or output shaft and the broken ring that caused me to tear this whole thing apart in the first place.



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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 12:53 PM
  #65  
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From: Elkton MD, USA
Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
Engine: 427 sbc, HSR
Transmission: T-56, self rebuilt 700+ hp
Axle/Gears: Moser 12bolt, 3.42 trutrac
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Very nice.. I wished GM would have fully splined the mainshaft for 5/6 like ford did, the GM 5/6 cluster is a weak link.

Common failure on the broken blocker, weakest right under the synchro key slot.
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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 04:23 PM
  #66  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

I'm glad to hear that the fully splined shaft is a good thing. I noticed on thegearbox that a Cobra mainshaft is $70 cheaper than a GM mainshaft and didnt know if that was because the GM one is beefier or not. On the other hand though, this means I could never upgrade to the Viper output shaft without swapping 5/6 gears correct?

I also came out real good at the junkyard today. I had to go to 3 different ones on complete oppisite sides of town, but it was worth it. The last 3rd gen I checked at the last yard was a stick shift car. I pulled the pedals out of it with the switches and pigtails, the grommet that covers the shifter hole on the trans tunnel (not the boot on the console), and the master cylinder resevoir for $12.87 I dont know if the girl behind the counter just didnt care anymore because they were about to close up, but that sounds real cheap to me. I'm not complaining though

Last edited by built91Z28; Apr 3, 2010 at 04:45 PM.
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Old Apr 7, 2010 | 07:52 PM
  #67  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Update: The hydraulic throwout bearing came in today. Several things I can already see that I didnt plan on, but is no big deal. I was going to make a plate that would bolt to the bellhousing to cover the hole where the shift fork normally is. I was then going to run hardline from the bearing to this plate and connect the clutch line here so that taking the trans out would be easier. I still may be able to do this, but now how I originally planned. It turns out that the body of the bearing, where the lines go in, is what moves in and out. This part does not stay fixed like I thought it would. I still may make a plate because I dont want to leave that big hole empty, but it is going to have to be slotted to allow for movement.

Also, the adapter plate I have has the mounting bolts for the bearing collar at the 12, 3,6, and 9 o'clock position. I'm guessing that GM mounts the collar with the bolts inbetween all these bolts because the slot in the bearing does not line up with the opening in the bellhousing. Its not that big of a deal though. I'll just get some 45 degree fittings to come out of the bearing and then the lines will line up. My bearing also came with the remote bleed kit, even though the directions said it wouldnt. Not complaining though

I also found a shop that could order me just the one roller bearing I needed for under 1st gear. I actually was able to use my TIG welder to weld the old back together. After looking at it real close I was able to tell that the bearing had broke on the factory weld. The weld held good but it warped the bearing just a tiny bit but it was enough that it went on rough. The new bearing was only $8 so I wasnt going to risk it.

I have a few questions though. I'm hoping to get the rest of the trans back together tomorrow. I only need to put 1st gear on and then set up the tallerences. I am wondering about the exact specs to set everything at. When I log into Fords site to look at the shop manuals, under specifications it says to set the mainshaft and counter shaft at 0 to .002" preload, and the 5/6 countershaft to .005" preload. Then when going through the shop manual it keeps saying end play. Is this supposed to be acutall preload as in shimming it so that the shaft is .002" to big to actually fit, or is it endplay where there is .002" wiggle in the shafts?

On Friday I'm going to take out all the old stuff so that on Saturday I can temporarily install the trans to make the crossmember. I'm out of money so its going to be a few weeks till I can order the clutch and get my driveshaft shortened. So in the mean time I'm going to get everything else done so that when I can order the clutch, I can just put it in and drive it then.

Last edited by built91Z28; Apr 7, 2010 at 10:05 PM.
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Old Apr 7, 2010 | 10:05 PM
  #68  
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From: Elkton MD, USA
Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
Engine: 427 sbc, HSR
Transmission: T-56, self rebuilt 700+ hp
Axle/Gears: Moser 12bolt, 3.42 trutrac
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Originally Posted by built91Z28
I have a few questions though. I'm hoping to get the rest of the trans back together tomorrow. I only need to put 1st gear on and then set up the tallerences. I've read the repair manual but still not 100% sure on how to check it. Can I use any sized all thread rod through the counter shaft to check play? Also, I've see listed that the spec on the counter shaft is .003" preload. Is it actually preload, or is it end play? If its preload, then how does a dial caliper measure that? Am I also supposed to check all this with silicone between the front plate and the housing or not? Does anyone know of a site that has step by step of checking this stuff? I've looked but cant find anything good.
If you can take good, repeatable measurements, I'd go with the following "performance" shimming:

Mainshaft: 0.001->0.002" PRELOAD
Countershaft: 0.002->0.004" PRELOAD
Extensionshaft: 0.000->0.001" END-PLAY

You take out all the races and remove the orig shims, re-install the races and measure the amount of end-play. Measure the shim thicknesses you get in your shim-set with a set of caliper or micrometer, and choose the size to put you in the above ranges. You do all your measurements with no RTV, and the case parts fully cleaned of any old RTV. All the case bolts must be installed and TQ'd to spec.

The threaded rod can be any rod for checking the countershaft, since you have to put nuts on both ends. For checking the extensionshaft though, you need M12x1.75 because it has to thread into the extension. I bought a piece of 1meter M12x1.75 from NAPA for $5 and 2 nuts and spacers to make it all work..

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...CP_%20067.html

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...CP_%20070.html

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...CP_%20047.html
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Old Apr 7, 2010 | 10:19 PM
  #69  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Thanks for the info. Just as you posted that I had edited my originall post. I decided to check Fords site and their rebuild manual was easier to understand than the other ones I've read. So that answered some of my questions. The size rod for the 5/6 extension is the one I needed to know. Fords site just says "use special tool".

I have already cleaned up everything too so that is good to go.

And for anyone else that is going to do this, you have to heat up the two torx bolts on the case. I went through 4 sockets trying to get the first bolt out before I finally heated it up. I heated the second one up today from the beginning and it came right out. Barely even a mark on my socket. I just used a little propane torch. I would imagine you dont want it glowing or anything so I wouldnt use an oxygen/accetelyne torch. Just hot enough to break up the threadlocker.
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Old Apr 9, 2010 | 09:15 PM
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

I started taking the old stuff out today. I did take the car for one last quick drive before hand. Nothing like a drive on open headers I also have gotten the output shaft back together. Like an idiot though I didnt order the shim kit when I ordered everything else and I need to re-shim the input shaft. I think I have a solution for this one though. I have some pinion shims for an 8.8 rearend that are just a few thousanths too big as far as O.D. goes so I'm going to just trim the shim down a little and if need be I'll put it inbetween two 3/4" thick plates and put it in the 20 ton press to make sure its flat. So for tomorrow I'll be using an empty case to put in the car so that I can make the crossmember. I also want to check to make sure the Lakewood bellhousing is centered on the motor. I was also able to physically verify that the driveshaft for my TH350 does fit in the tailshaft bushing of the Cobra trans and does fit the output shaft. From the quick measurments I've done so far it looks like roughly 7" is going to have to be cut off the driveshaft. I'll do a more precise measurement before actually having it cut.

I also think I finally figure out exactly what I'm doing as far as a clutch. I am going to get a Ram SFI billet steel 168 tooth flywheel. I am then going to run the stock pressure plate I have for a 11" clutch. The reason is because I had forgot about the fact that when I bought the trans the guy selling it gave me two mustang flywheels and a Spec mustang clutch. I didnt tell him this was going in a Camaro becuase he's a Mustang guy and was selling the trans real cheap. Well the clutch happens to be a Spec stage 3+ that has the 26 spline disc. The bolt holes on the Spec pressure plate are just millimeters from lining up with the Chevy pressure plate I have so I cant use the Spec PP, but I am going to use the disc. It looks almost new. I'll just hit with a sanding pad on a die grinder to clean it up a little. This will give me a little bigger clutch than before with a good disc and I'll save $100 over using the Auto Zone replacement flywheel with Ram clutch I was going to use. Heres some pics of where I'm at now. And ignore the color of the bellhousing. The can said red but it looks more orange. I'm going to completely strip it down as it has been repainted several times. Then I'm going to paint it red to make it look as it would have come new. My block is also red so it will match that.



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Old Apr 10, 2010 | 09:27 PM
  #71  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Today sucked. I got the old trans out and bolted the bellhousing in. My problems started there. The bellhousing is so thick that I couldnt even get a socket on the bolts. I had to tighten them with a crows foot. I only put 3 bolts in for now as the trans case is only in for mock up reasons. I'm going to have to find some small head bolts like header bolts.

Got the rest of the trans case (all the internals are still out of it) bolted in and realized that Ford designed the tailshaft with a bit of tilt on it. So now comes a delima for me. Do I make the crossmember at the same angle as the trans sits now, which isnt any harder than if it were straight. I would then probably have to make a shifter handle as the trans tilts towards the passenger side. Or do I cut off the bolt tabs in the bellhousing, spin the adapter plate a little and drill new holes then weld in new pieces for the threads? I'm strongly leaning towards just leaving it how it is and making a shifter handle as that really doesnt seem all the hard compared to everything else I've done on the car so far.

I also realized that my torque arm is not going to work as is. I'm going to have to shorten it by about 5 inches or so. There is not enough room next to the tailshaft to make a mount for it. If I were making a crossmember like a Spohn I could make the mount but since I'm making a double hump crossmember, there is not enough room. Thats ok though since where the torque arm is now wouldnt let me run the X pipe either. So I think what I'm going to do is find someone around here that sells box tubing and make a mount that connects both subframe connectors together. I will then make a mount on this bar that will go across the car.

I also realized that I cannot use just the X pipe kit that I bought. Since the T56 is so much longer than the TH350, it pushes the X back far enought that the tubes the kit comes with dont line up. So I'm going to have to get Hedman S-extensions and cut some of the middle of them out so they dont have so much offset and then weld them back up. This will let me run 3 inch tubes out of the headers for about 20" or so and then I'll get 3" to 2.5" Flowmaster reducer cones (these are 8" long for a smooth transition) and then I can run my 2.5" X-pipe kit from there.

Over all, a lot more fabrication than I was expecting and a lot more money than I was expecting. This project is defiently going to take longer than I wanted, but I will be very happy with the car when I'm done. The exhaust is going to be extremely close to everything so I am glad that I put the solid motor mounts on. Heres a pic of the tailshaft.


Last edited by built91Z28; Apr 10, 2010 at 09:33 PM.
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Old Apr 11, 2010 | 09:21 PM
  #72  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Sweet! I was just looking around on Centerforces website and they have all their flywheels listed with what vehicles they will fit and the balance on the flywheel with what size clutch you can use. Looks like the 86-95 trucks used a 168 tooth flywheel with the same balance (obviously) as my motor has and I can use a 10.4", 11", or 12" clutch. And the best part is that I can get a flywheel from Auto Zone now. This saves me about $200 and means that the trans might be going in this upcomming weekend or the weekend after that at latest. I'm sending some stuff back to Summit that I can no longer use and I am going to buy the exhaust pieces I need with that money. I might actually be able to wrap this thing up in a few weeks.
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Old Apr 12, 2010 | 06:21 AM
  #73  
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From: Elkton MD, USA
Car: 1985 Camaro Z28, VIN F
Engine: 427 sbc, HSR
Transmission: T-56, self rebuilt 700+ hp
Axle/Gears: Moser 12bolt, 3.42 trutrac
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Originally Posted by built91Z28
Got the rest of the trans case (all the internals are still out of it) bolted in and realized that Ford designed the tailshaft with a bit of tilt on it. So now comes a delima for me. Do I make the crossmember at the same angle as the trans sits now, which isnt any harder than if it were straight. I would then probably have to make a shifter handle as the trans tilts towards the passenger side. Or do I cut off the bolt tabs in the bellhousing, spin the adapter plate a little and drill new holes then weld in new pieces for the threads? I'm strongly leaning towards just leaving it how it is and making a shifter handle as that really doesnt seem all the hard compared to everything else I've done on the car so far.
If you draw a straightline down through the shifter pad, you'll see that the tailhousing is not tilted, the entire transmission is tilted. I wouldn't build anything related to that tilt, but instead try to figure out why your motor/trans is tilted and try to correct it.
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Old Apr 12, 2010 | 08:23 AM
  #74  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

The two shifter pads are at different angle to each other. I dont know why but I figured the tilt was built into the mid plate so that the tailshaft would sit flat. I guess the Cobra bellhousing has the tilt built into it so the tailshaft is flat. I have solid motor mounts so the trans isnt going to really be moving at all so I dont think it will be that big of a deal. The only way I know to correct it is to cut the pieces out of the bellhousing, spin the adapter plate a little, drill new holes, then weld pieces with threads back into the bellhousing.
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Old Apr 12, 2010 | 04:07 PM
  #75  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Heres a pic of the tailshaft. When you compare the shifter pad to the two top bolts you can see the amount of twist that is built into the tailshaft.

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Old Apr 12, 2010 | 04:30 PM
  #76  
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From: SC
Car: '82 Camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 4th Gen 10 Bolt, 4.10
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

It seems you're coming along quite well with your swap. I'm glad you said something about the throwout bearing as well. I didnt' know the whole body moved on them. Couldn't you put a bulk head fitting on the plate you're making to cover the fork hole and use a short flex line on the inside of the bell to the throw out bearing? Then from the outside you could be able to screw your other line from the master to it. Just a suggestion. I think i'm just going to have a line long enough that hangs out the bell from the throwout to reach the master and put a rubber grommet that the lines can go through in place of the fork hole. I have -3AN adapters on the stock master and slave currently so I can just unscrew it at the master (instead of having to push out the pin) and pull the hose down. I know the throwouts use a -4AN line so I'll just run -3AN to it and put a -3 to -4 adapter at the throwout.

I see what you're talkin about pertaining to the tilted tail housing. I don't think that it would be an issue unless it gets your shifter handle way off. I know the adapter plate on mine is slightly tilted on the bell making the trans mount a little tilted (not as much as yours but noticeable). I'm building my crossmember to accept the slight tilt since its not enought to put the shifter off to much and I've got to make a shifter handle anyway.

A suggestion for what I did for the engine to bell bolts is to use some allen head bolts. Header bolts would be ok too but I happened to have some stainless allen head bolts long enough and of that size that worked fine. I only had to use them on the side bolt holes and it also made it easier to get socket in by where the bracket is welded on the drivers side of the bell.

Glad to see you're making progress. I know how ya feel about it taking time. Mines taking longer than I expected as well, but its all worth it in the end.
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Old Apr 12, 2010 | 05:02 PM
  #77  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

I could use a bulkhead fitting and then a short piece of braided line. I am going to have to somehow have a connection outside of the bellhousing becuase there is no way I could disconnect it once everything is in. The Ram bearing that I bought says to use -3AN line running to it. I too bought the fittings to run -3 out of the master.

As far as my shifter handle, I'm probably just going to make a shifter handle. It shouldnt be that hard and then I can have the handle that is the perfect length and height for me.

The allen heads are a good idea. Didnt even think about that.

Good luck on your swap too. Good projects always take longer than expected and usually cost twice the original budget, but they are worth it.
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Old Apr 12, 2010 | 07:44 PM
  #78  
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From: SC
Car: '82 Camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 4th Gen 10 Bolt, 4.10
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Agree'd. Always takes more money than expected but is definately worth it in the end.

I didn't know any one sold a throwout with -3 fititngs. All the ones I looked at were -4. Thats nice to know... I might should go with that one too.

I'm still not understanding why you wouldn't be able to disconnect outside the bell. With the master adapters, you would just be able to unscrew the line from the master and it would be loose to drop with the transmission, regardless of how you have the line routed to the throwout bearing (through hard line, bulkhead fitting, etc.). Maybe I'm just not grasping fully what your plans are.
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Old Apr 12, 2010 | 07:54 PM
  #79  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

I could disconnect the line from the master and then just pull the line out with the bellhousing. I just figured it would be much eaiser to disconnect it from the bellhousing considering the master is sandwhiched between the frame and the booster.

This is the exact bearing I bought. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RAM-78125/
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Old Apr 13, 2010 | 12:36 AM
  #80  
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From: SC
Car: '82 Camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 4th Gen 10 Bolt, 4.10
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

It may be a little easier. I find it not that hard to unscrew from there considering I've had to replace the clutch line a few times (header melted a few stock style ones), having to drive out the pin every time to disconnect from the master. Now that can be aggravating. When I switched to the braided line and fittings, it didn't seem to be that bad at all to screw tighten the line up to the adapter at the master and the booster didn't really seem to be in the way terribly bad. But to each his own. I'd agree that the hose being disconnectable at the bell would be advantageous if nothing else but to prevent fluid from dripping on any paint (as it can if you disconnect the line from the master). I'm not in any way trying to talk you out of the disconnect from the bell and am interested in what you come up with for it so keep us informed.
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Old Apr 13, 2010 | 06:30 PM
  #81  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Got some work done today on the crossmember. I want to get this finished so I can pull the empty trans case back out and finish rebuilding it.

After I get the crossmember welded up, I'm going to cut off any excess metal that is just sticking out. I'm also going to brace it a little on the drivers side. You can see the one plate that is just welded right up against the other one and I'm not sure how good that is. I know its thick metal (3/16") and there really isnt that much weight on it, but I'd rather build it too strong than not strong enough. I'm also going to cut the very corner of the piece of 90 on the drivers side frame off then weld a flat piece in its place so the exhaust will have a little more room. I'm not worried about how close the exhaust is becuase I have the solid motor mounts. The exhaust pipe is also just laying there and can be pushed up about 1/4" higher. I only got this one side done so far as I have actually had things to do at work lately which is where I'm also doing all this. Tomorrow I should get the other side done. I know that it looks like the 90 degree piece of the crossmember that bolts to the trans mount is touching the piece above it bolted to the trans, but its not. There is about a 1/8" gap.







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Old Apr 13, 2010 | 10:59 PM
  #82  
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From: SC
Car: '82 Camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 4th Gen 10 Bolt, 4.10
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Have you thought about how you're going to attach the torque arm? Is it going to be still attached to the tail, the crossmember, or are you using a separate crossmember to attach it too? I know you're going for ground clearance getting the exhaust up, but it just seems that the exhaust will actually be up to far to be able to clear any attachment of the torque arm to the trans or crossmember. Maybe it's just the angle that the pictures are taken at though.

If you are attaching the torque arm to the trans mount or trans crossmember, you're definately going to want to beef up that plate on the drivers side coming off. It doesn't hold a whole lot of weight if just the trans is supported by it, but if you're adding the force input on it due to the torque arm you can get upwards of a 1,000 lbs. (or more) of force pushing up or pullling down on the cross, so definately anywhere you got room, I wouldn't be scared to throw some gussets on to.

Other than that looking good. If it works out, you'll definately have dual exhaust tucked up closer than I've ever seen on anybody's f-body. I sure know mines not going to tuck up that close, but I'm only going for being able to keep it up above the lowest part of the header and my headers definately hang a lot lower than your's. Guess that's what I get for modifying 2nd gen headers to fit the third gen.
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Old Apr 14, 2010 | 07:54 AM
  #83  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

As far as the torque arm goes, I realized as soon as I put it in place the first time with this trans that it wasnt going to work. I think the Cobra tailshaft is a decent amount wider at the bottom than a GM T56. There was no way to have a dual hump crossmember and the torque arm mount on the crossmember and keep the exhaust running through that side. I am going to make a mount for it seperate of the crossmember. I'm going to get some 3"X1" box tubing (I think I found someone who can get this for me, if not I'll order it) and run it from one subframe connector to the other going across the car. I'll make some kind of mount so that it bolts in and can be removed. This will let me run the exhaust the way I want to. I'll have to take about 5" out of the torque arm to shorten it up. It looks like it will be between the length of the Jegster arm and the normal length of the Spohn. I would never mount it on the tailshaft anyways, but its not possible for me too. The Cobra tailshaft doesnt have a place to mount a torque arm.

And your right, if I were to have mounted the torque arm I would have to brace the crossmember more. The last thing I want to here is a snap and the tearing sound of the torque arm shooting through the trans tunnel just a few inches from my side Here is a pic of roughly where it would have sat.

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Old Apr 14, 2010 | 11:25 AM
  #84  
james_adams2006's Avatar
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From: SC
Car: '82 Camaro
Engine: 355
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 4th Gen 10 Bolt, 4.10
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

I'll agree. It does look like the mounting pad is a lot wider than the GM tail. Glad you got an idea worked out for it. Sounds like it should work pretty well then.
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Old Apr 14, 2010 | 04:39 PM
  #85  
The Devastator's Avatar
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From: Southern California
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: 8.0:1 454/Mild Hyd roller/Accel DFI
Transmission: WC T5
Axle/Gears: Stock 1992 open 7.5" 2.73 ratio
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Have you considered running your exhuast outside the frame rails? I know you don't want to buy new headers but it may be a suitable alternative.

Unless you wanna run full length exhaust over the axle.....
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Old Apr 14, 2010 | 05:06 PM
  #86  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Nah. If I had shorties I may consider it but I want to keep longtubes. The exhaust will work this way. It will be tight, but it'll fit. Plus it will be nice to have the exhaust most people want but dont think is possible.
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Old Apr 15, 2010 | 08:53 PM
  #87  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Got the other side of the crossmember done today. Turned out pretty good I think. I was going to weld it up today but I couldn't find the electrode for my welder that I needed so tomorrow on my lunch break I'll run by the welding shop and pick one up.

Yesterday I got the top of the center console out and the auto shifter out. I also got the shifter cable out, the VSS that I had on the TH350, the cooler and the cooler lines all out.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll get the elctrode I need and get most of the crossmember welded up. After I weld some of it, I'm going to put in some bracing. I have to weld parts of it though first because the bracing will cover it. I'll get the bracing tacked in on Saturday so that Saturday night I can finish welding everything else on it and get it painted. I'm also going to try to get the shifter hole cut in the car tomorrow along with putting the trans back together. I've been working with an empty case this hole time which did make things a lot easier. I could put the case in and out of the car by hand this way without a trans jack. Heres some pics of the almost finished crossmember. As I said before, after welding some of the ends and areas sticking out will be cut off to look nicer.



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Old Apr 16, 2010 | 12:30 PM
  #88  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Well, I did it. I just cut a hole in my trans tunnel. No going back now I cant decide if cutting a big hole is the best part of this all so far or the most nerve racking part.
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Old Apr 16, 2010 | 12:35 PM
  #89  
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From: Southern California
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: 8.0:1 454/Mild Hyd roller/Accel DFI
Transmission: WC T5
Axle/Gears: Stock 1992 open 7.5" 2.73 ratio
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

When we cut the hole for the T5 shifter on my camaro we did it really small on purpose. Once the trans and shifter was in we had to enlarge it a half inch on the back and passenger side for the shift under load. The BMR crossmember put half of the shifter boss through the floor board. We'll see how it all plays out when I start driving the car.
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Old Apr 16, 2010 | 12:46 PM
  #90  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

I cut mine small too. I have the back of my shifter pad just touching the floarboard. I did this because this is how everything sat with the solid motor mounts in. Its actually pushed up about 1/2" from where it naturally sat. I made a carboard template of the shifter pad and cut the hole a little larger on the back drivers side which is the highest point of my pad due to the angle it sits at.

Now that thats done and the crossmember is done, I can put the trans backtogether and hopefully next weeks sometime put it in. I am tempted to put the case back in though so I can sit inside and pretend to shift gears
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Old Apr 16, 2010 | 12:49 PM
  #91  
The Devastator's Avatar
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From: Southern California
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: 8.0:1 454/Mild Hyd roller/Accel DFI
Transmission: WC T5
Axle/Gears: Stock 1992 open 7.5" 2.73 ratio
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

hahaha yeah that was the first thing i did when i got my t5 installed the first time. Let us know how it turns out.
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Old Apr 17, 2010 | 08:21 PM
  #92  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Got the crossmember welded up tonight. Whew, that was a lot of welding. Dont critize my welds too much. I've had my TIG welder for years but have rarely used it. Plus some of the welds I had to do in the opposite direction with the torch in the opposite hand than what I'm use to. Overall I'm really happy with the way it turned out. I just need to paint it tomorrow.

These first pics are with the crossmember sitting in its normal position.








These two pics are with the crossmember upside down to show the bracing I put on it to keep it from flexing.


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Old Apr 21, 2010 | 08:59 AM
  #93  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Haven't updated in a few days so here is the latest. I found a pinion shim for a rear axle that is just a hair larger O.D. than the shims for the main shaft so using a pair of sheet metal snips, I trimmed the outside of the shim and then de-burred it on a wire wheel very carefully not to bend it. Worked out perfect. I then meausre the countershaft a few minutes ago and I can re-use the factory shim I took out. So it looks like the main part of the trans will be going back together today. Woohoo!
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Old Apr 22, 2010 | 10:26 AM
  #94  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Transmission rebuild is done!
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Old Apr 25, 2010 | 01:24 AM
  #95  
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Over the last two days I have got the pedals mounted, the clutch master bled out, and the pilot bearing installed. Getting the nut on the top right of the brake booster is a major pain. I do have one tip for anyone else doing this. Take the two nuts loose holding the steering column up and let it drop down. You can then get to it fairly easily.



I also removed the brake booster to make cutting the hole for the master easier. Remove the booster took about 2 extra minutes (if that) but saved a bunch of time and a huge headache.



One tip for measuring the clearance on the 5/6 countershaft extension is to just weld a 12mm X 1.75 bolt, with the head cut off, to a 3/8" rod. The only reason I did this is because the 3/8" all thread was a little over $4. The 12 X 1.75 rod was $18.



Here is a picture of the hydraulic throwout bearing I'm using. I have to get 45 degree fittings for the inlet and outlet of the bearing because thegearbox must not drill there holes exactly where the factory does. This doesnt matter unless your using this bearing. Another thing they do is use metric bolts. I'm guessing the factory uses standard bolts because the two different studs the bearing comes with are for standard threads. Luckly the metric thread is just barely a hair smaller than 3/8" so I just ran a 3/8" tap through it and the stud bolted on fine.



Finally just a picture of the engine compartment. It looks much nicer now that I dont have the trans cooler lines running down the frame rail and I dont have a trans cooler on the radiator. I also dont have the dipstick so the firewall is a little less cluttered. Now I just need to find something to do with the two holes in the aluminum panel.

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Old May 12, 2010 | 04:11 PM
  #96  
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From: Illinois
Car: 98 Camaro Z28
Engine: 346 LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3:43
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Originally Posted by built91Z28
Over the last two days I have got the pedals mounted, the clutch master bled out, and the pilot bearing installed. Getting the nut on the top right of the brake booster is a major pain. I do have one tip for anyone else doing this. Take the two nuts loose holding the steering column up and let it drop down. You can then get to it fairly easily.



I also removed the brake booster to make cutting the hole for the master easier. Remove the booster took about 2 extra minutes (if that) but saved a bunch of time and a huge headache.



One tip for measuring the clearance on the 5/6 countershaft extension is to just weld a 12mm X 1.75 bolt, with the head cut off, to a 3/8" rod. The only reason I did this is because the 3/8" all thread was a little over $4. The 12 X 1.75 rod was $18.



Here is a picture of the hydraulic throwout bearing I'm using. I have to get 45 degree fittings for the inlet and outlet of the bearing because thegearbox must not drill there holes exactly where the factory does. This doesnt matter unless your using this bearing. Another thing they do is use metric bolts. I'm guessing the factory uses standard bolts because the two different studs the bearing comes with are for standard threads. Luckly the metric thread is just barely a hair smaller than 3/8" so I just ran a 3/8" tap through it and the stud bolted on fine.



Finally just a picture of the engine compartment. It looks much nicer now that I dont have the trans cooler lines running down the frame rail and I dont have a trans cooler on the radiator. I also dont have the dipstick so the firewall is a little less cluttered. Now I just need to find something to do with the two holes in the aluminum panel.

what serpentine setup is that/ i am gonna be twin turbo chargin my 350tpi and this looks like it frees up some room. and a t56 swap so this is a good reference i am diggin that cross member you fabbed good work bro
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Old May 12, 2010 | 08:47 PM
  #97  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Thank you. The pulleys and brackets are all from March. The alternator bracket is actually the one sold as Summit brand, but I think its just a March that isnt polished.

Last edited by built91Z28; May 15, 2010 at 03:48 PM.
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Old May 15, 2010 | 03:48 PM
  #98  
built91Z28's Avatar
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From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

I figured I should update this thread for one last time. This way its complete for anyone who happens to do a search and find it. I got the trans in today which basically completes the swap. The rest is just little stuff like wiring and getting the driveshaft shortened. So here are some pics of the completed swap.





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Old May 16, 2010 | 10:24 AM
  #99  
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From: Peoria, IL USA
Car: 91 GTA
Engine: 377ci
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: QP Ford 9" 3.70s
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

Very Nice work. I think you will be estatic with the T56 I know I was. I do wish I would of went with a more street friendly clutch, but grabbing gears witht the pedal smashed to the floor is awsome!
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Old May 16, 2010 | 12:02 PM
  #100  
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From: Fayette County, OH
Car: basic third gens
Engine: that I like
Transmission: to restore
Axle/Gears: and enjoy
Re: Doing a T56 swap! Have a ton of questions

I just read the whole thing, and I have to say nice work! Just like a true hotrodder, you made things work how you wanted, with parts that were available to you, all while saving some bucks here and there.

Is that 3in exhaust you will be running? It looks big. I think you are going to want to modify your crossmember slightly. Even with solid mounts, it looks to me that things are close enough that you are going to get some annoying rattles. On the crossmember, if you redid the driverside "upright" at more of an angle (top outward, bottom inward) it would do two things. 1, give you much more exhaust clearance by giving you room to move the pipe down a little. 2, it would be a little stronger than what you have now.

Also, what brake master is that you are running?
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