Time to install a t56 in the 91! I've located a unit with the peripherals, a stock unit from a 94 firebird. I'll need to get it shipped, any tips on how to go about shipping large items would be appreciated.

I've followed through the sticky on the t56 conversion, I'm fairly confident i can complete the task, the hard parts being installing the foot pedal assembly, cutting the firewall and tran tunnel, splicing the wiring etc. I do wonder if I'll run into unforseen issues considering the original motor was swapped out for a crate motor (see my other posts for details).

The torque arm i'm not too clear on, it seems the original piece can be modified to fit (how i'm not sure, i'll reread the sticky mentioned above). I'll probably go with an aftermarket crossmember to go along with it.

Also, the stock starter some have said should fit, but if not then I have a used unit off my 96 yukon i could rebuild and that should be similar to the lt1 models mentioned (no?).

Another thing i could use some clarification on is with the speed sender. I have a 91 camaro, so I assume it's electronic from what I've read. If that's the case, then i just need to find a module to adjust the pulse speed correct?

Lastly, just so that I don't assume too much, a 94 mn6 model t56 bellhousing should bolt up to an 86+ block and I can reuse my driveshaft, correct?

Thanks for any pointers, I'm getting real excited about finally having a manual transmission in my camaro. That's the only way they should be made IMO

Alan

 

I'm also wondering about the factory flywheel, if found to be in good condition would there be any reason not to use it? It seems people are buying new ones to install, the OP in the t56 swap sticky did the same thing.

 

Look up the weight and size limits of major shipping carriers. A seller willing to use some screws to put some wood together as a shipping crate and a crate within carrier limits is what you will ideally find.

Stock length LT1 trans. and bellhousing take a stock length torque arm. Yours is more than likely the same stamped steel shape at the tailhousing bushing (W or M, depending on how you view it) and re-usable.

82-97 F-body starters are for smaller, 153 tooth flywheels. Trucks are 168. The 93-97 LT1 starters are fine.

Yes, a Dakota SGI-5 box or similar will work.

All 86-up SBC Gen I and LT1/LT4 Gen II take the same flywheel balance. Any production 86-up engine will take any production 86-up flywheel from those engines.

Machining a used flywheel is valid. If the shop machining it says it's too thin to be machined, get a new one.

 

Everything jmd said.

And I'd like to add: when I did this swap on my '91RS the factory driveshaft and torque arm worked perfectly with no modification. You WILL need an aftermarket crossmember. Spohn and Hawk's make nice pieces. I used the Skulte crossmember, and it's held up beautifully, but from what I understand they're out of business now and you can't get their version anymore.

Spohn makes a crossmember/torque arm set that relocates the torque arm mount from the trans to the crossmember, which takes a LOT of strain off the trans mount and keep the rear suspension geometry in better form. It's pricey, but if you plan on upgrading the torque arm in the future anyway, doing it now will save you from having to buy and change crossmembers twice. Food for thought.

 

Thanks for the input. I talked to the wrecking yard, they said they could ship it for $130, that sounded reasonable enough, so I'm up to $1450 so far for the transmission.

Jmd i verified i was getting the torque arm mount and bushing on the t56, so looks like i'm set for that little bit of the conversion. I will order the sgi-5 shortly, but before i do are there any other options that might be cheaper? $80 is starting to get spendy.

Here's what they're shipping, pipe in if i'm missing something from the donor car.

T56 and connectors (vss etc)
Bellhousing
Torque Arm mount and bushing
shifter
Master Cylinder/Slave Cylinder
Pedal Assembly
Cross member
Flywheel/Pressure Plate
Dust Cover
and various bolts, who knows which kind until it's shipped.

Jaxom I'm glad you mentioned the crossmember. I hadn't thought about using the one from the donor car and while i was on the phone getting the inventory from the wrecking yard I was glad to hear they were putting that in with the rest. I figured it couldn't hurt to have it and decided to look into it when i could. I understand the 3rd gen crossmember can't be used without chopping it up, but is the 4th gen crossmember something that could be lightly modified to fit (ie drill a hole or two)? or is it the same deal as the 3rd, cut into 3 pieces and weld to fit? If both can't be made to fit, guess I'll have to start looking for a good price on an aftermarket piece. A new torque arm is definitely out of the question, i have a hard time justifying spending $450+ for an item like that.

Alan

 

You didn't mention the clutch fork or the slave cylinder spacer, but no doubt the salvage yard is shipping them with the trans. Looks to me like you've got everything you need, except a crossmember. The 4th gen crossmember would require chopping and fabbing just like the stock 3rdgen one would, except it may be even MORE difficult because the subframe angles and bolt spacings are different in the newer cars.

The factory 4thgen crossmember looks like this.

What you need to end up with is more like this. (This is the one I'm using.)

 

Jaxom, i had intended to ask about the fork and pivot, but i just realized i never did. It is supposed to arrive today, so I'm hoping they have it included. I'm not surprised about the 4th gen not fitting, so looks like its aftermarket piece for me. I was looking at the UMI piece, its a little spendy at $160, and if i added on the UMI torque arm the total is around $415, the best price I have found yet for both but it's still more than i want to spend. I doubt that with my 250/300 rwhp/tq engine that i should worry about snapping the tail housing but my car does have wheel hop and THAT has me worried. I'll get a rear trailing arm relocation kit (car is lowered) to balance that out, i had done a homejob of welding up the stock trailing arms but the wheel hop still persists.

That brings me to another thing i need to fix, my posi is slipping now. How should i tackle fixing that? Is it something i can get a part for to repair it, or do i have to purchase a whole new unit??

Alan

 

The posi you have is an Auburn. The are not rebuildable, unfortunately. Any one you can find for a '91 to '02 Camaro will work as they all have 28 spline axles. A Torsen is a good choice and can sometimes be found used for cheap. They are gear-type and don't use clutches or cones that wear out.

Are you going to use the 4th gen pedals? I researched them a lot for my swap and ended up getting brand-new 3rd gen pedals from Hawks. No modifications are needed and people seem to have less issues with them.

Good luck with the swap. I can't wait to finish mine.

 

If you're not planning on upping the horsepower anytime soon there's no real need to upgrade the torque arm. Just stick a polyurethane trans mount in it and you shouldn't have much to worry about there.

The LCA brackets do wonders for wheel-hop. It's amazing how much of a difference proper suspension geometry makes.

 

Can't find a new torsen. Found 2 used ones on ebay, but gearing was 3.2 or less. Jegs had a couple that seemed to be listed for ford, so i'm guessing they aren't sold new anymore?

 

I couldn't tell you. It's been years since I actually looked for 10-bolt parts.

Try searching by application for a 4thgen car. The parts will interchange...maybe you'll get lucky.

 

If you're going the t56 route, then you'll want a series 3 torsen for gearing 3.23 and numerically higher. There is a series 2 torsen that's for 3.08 and numerically lower gears. They are good diffs. There is special torsen our there with an "R" designation, IIRC. Thats the best one you can get and is only available in 3 series. You're gonna want at least a 3.42 gear anyway. Yes, they will drop right in you existing 10 bolt given it has 28 spline axles, however, you're gonna have to set the gears up most likely.

 

Here's the offending camaro in clean form:



and here's its status right now (yes thats the hood of a 67, the in-law is alright with me!):



engine bay:



I didn't get everything that i wanted, ie shifter ****, dust shield, clutch pivot ball (fork is there though, i'm assuming there's a ball it rotates on that i don't have). So here's what ended up with.

hydraulics:




Clutch pedal assembly:



clutch/pp:



front of t56 (minus pivot ball!):



and rear of t56:



not sure what the bracket is for on the right, i haven't seen that piece yet.


So now i need some time and some elbow grease, this will probably take a few weeks considering i'm waiting for more money to get the rest of the stuff and the 700r4 still needs removed. And its easter weekend, so I'm not sure how much i'll get going right away, but i've got plenty to work with now.

 

i just realized that first pic was taken in 2006, so long ago! It's got 30k miles more on it now, over 180k but only ~60k on the engine. Wish it still had the window tint, but them badges don't take kindly to shady camaro's. Last time i got pulled over in it was getting close to dusk. Officer's lights bright up, asks me why my lights aren't on. I say, "my parking lights were on sir". he says "not like the rest of these cars!" (i'm sure he had to realize these cars he's pointing at have daytime running lights, not like this old 91 that doesn't!). He then proceeds to tell me how the last time he pulled a camaro over like this he got a gun pulled on him. I'm staring at him, realizing the only reason he pulled me over was that i was in a camaro. He finally points out the tint, and lets me off with a warning. Keeping the streets safe, that one!

 

That bracket is for an exhaust hanger. Probably won't work for your application.

The 2 or 3 series Torsen carrier doesn't really matter as you can get the gear ratio you want for either. I would recommend 4.11's for the T56.

You are going to have to remove that gas pedal assembly and reuse your stock one.

 

The third-gen T5 had a ballstud.
The 93-97 T56 has a fork tee so you're fine,

 

Browsing for crossmembers, and it seems skulte has closed shop

I was looking at the BMR model

http://www.jegs.com/i/BMR-Fabricatio...ductId=1534931

but i'm concerned because it says it "eliminates" the torque arm mount and pushes me to buy a torque arm or more expensive relocation version. Not sure how that is the case, seems i could still leave the mount on the tranny still, unless the mount would bottom out on the cross member before fully seating to the tranny? Thoughts?

 

thanks jmd!

 

Ditched the idea of the BMR cross member for the Hawks cross member, got it ordered!

 

Progress report! I got the 4th gen pedal assembly bolted into place and drilled the u-bolt holes for the master cylinder, then kinda eyeballed the center and used a 1-1/4" hole drill for the main hole. For the master cylinder hole I wanted to use 1-1/2" bit, but that one was real dull. Once i got that hole drilled out i marked the top pedal bolt hole, pulled out the pedals and drilled a hole for the top bolt. Then i pulled out the air dremel and elongated the master cylinder hole till i had enough room to slide the MC right up to the firewall. So far it's gone pretty much the same as the "my t56 swap" thread, thanks to that OP for doing a great job posting progress with pics(!) to help the rest of us out.

here's some pics of the progress:

 

got the master cylinder in place



and mounted the clutch resevoir to the fuse rack in the corner of the engine bay, i'm hoping the hood will clear it



and here is the pedal assembly hanging on the bolts, i haven't tightened in place yet but it was worth stopping to take a pic



more to come in the next few days

 

hmm, just realized my terminology leaves alot to be desired. I was calling the clutch resevoir the "slave cylinder". For the love! I'm editing it out right now!

 

I had to squeeze some fluid out of the hydraulic clutch lines, now that I want to fill it back in and bleed it i find myself wondering how:





i don't see a place to bleed the line, what gives?

 

You have to pump the slave by hand while the master is still bolted in place. Careful of the fluid level. That will force air out of the line. It's the only way to do it.

 

well i have a question. i want to do the same, i currently have a 6 inch tailshaft on a th350. would a t56 swap with the same driveshaft?????

oh yeah, and how do i iknow if its a 86+ motor? i have an old v8 (dont know where it came from) but a 91 vette TPI setup fit and runs on it. theres a few numbers on the back but i dont understand them, ??help??

 

Depends on which T56.
If a trans. is bolted up, use http://www.nastyz28.com/decode.php to look up the numbers.

If it's not, look at the back end of the crank and google pics until you figure it out.

 

getting closer to done, need to finish up a couple things before kicking it over. Here's a pic of the cab, the shifter plate is the old auto version which i need to modify or locate a new piece.

 

everything should be wired in, except for the reverse lockout solenoid. I put the SGI-5C in the jockey box, drilled out a hole in the bottom to run the wires to. This should make it easy to adjust, and I'll figure out a way to keep it tidy after i work out the kinks. So i'm just waiting to find out what i fudged up on once i get to firing the car up, hoping by this time tomorrow to have it on the road.

 

finished up the last little bit and took it for a spin


took a while to turn this thing around, and have a number of things to follow up on but now that I'm on the other side the grass is a little greener!

Here's where i mounted the SGI5-C in the jockey box, figured i'd keep it where i could adjust it on the fly. speaking of, i couldn't really adjust it while going down the road. pressing the up or down buttons didn't seem to make a difference, i'll take another look at the manual and see what i can figure out.



Now its time to start commuting to work and see what kind of gas mileage i can get with a 0.5 overdrive!

 

Now I really want a 5 or 6 speed trans in my gta, bad. Looked like that went fast.

 

seemed real slow from my point of view, i read someone's comment on another t56 swap thread that they did it in 7 hours; but they had started with a t5 not a 700r4. This took me what, 3 months? Took forever, definitely not a quick easy job. With alot of prep before hand it could be done in a matter of days, i could definitely do it faster next time around.

I was kind of tentative with the car when i first took it out, had some vibrations if i started to get on the gas. Found out i had swapped plug wires for 6 and 8 cylinders, now it just plain gets on it! I don't trust going for a burnout yet, i need to put on the rear control arm relocation mounts to fight the wheel hop and fix the stripped crossmember bolt hole (@#$%!).

 

next time around might come sooner than later, i've got a 70 camaro in the garage just begging to be a daily driver...hmmmmmm

 

thinking about it, my biggest gripe is not having a car lift. I can't explain how frustrated i get being underneath a car in a cramped position lifting a heavy object. a lift, o man that would be nice

 

i just got the sgi dialed in, had to set both 3 and 4 switches "on", coarse setting of 10 or 11 and then used maxed fine adjust to get it close. I'll probably need to adjust the coarse setting once more to get it exactly on, but that's for another day.

MPG's: I was getting a steady 22 mpg with the 700r4 (mostly highway miles), and on this first tank of gas with the t56 i seem to be about 25mpg's with a heavy foot but i can't be sure till the next gas tank cause the speedometer was off till now. For those that haven't looked at the ratio's, the 700r4 is about .64 (2400 rpms@75mph)and the t56 6th gear is 0.5 (1800ishrpms@75mph). I'm hoping to get close to 30mpg considering the ~25% decrease in rpm's at highway speed, but i'm not above settling for 25mpg with a heavy foot on the throttle

 

I filled up after the first tank and it looks like i got somewhere between 18-21 mpg's, the next tank should give me a better figure. I commute 120mi a day in this car so this is mostly highway miles, but there are stretches of road that i can't help but get heavy on the throttle lol so it's still a mixed bag.

With the auto I could go 310 miles on 14 gallons, and i figured this last tank went 280 miles then topped off at 13 gallons. That calculates to 21.5 mpg's, but 280miles is just a best guess considering my speedo was off.

The 700r4 will probably prove more forgiving for mpg's, and if that proves true then swap is still worth it for the fun factor

 

After a couple weeks driving, i'm seeing i get 19mpg when throttle happy and back to the familiar 22.5mpg when driving very conservatively (very hard to do!). I just swapped in new plugs/wire/cap/rotor, hoping i can push it up some more. I'm liking the manual more and more, it fits me real good for how i like to drive. Gonna get some exhaust work done next week to properly remount the exhaust, install the subframe connectors and the rear lower control arm relocation brackets.

 

Figured i revive this dead horse for a mpg update. I just logged 131 miles on 3.9 gallons from Boise, ID to Baker City, OR. Works out to 33.6 mpg's, personal best! I checked it against Mapquest, shows it as ~127mi's so i'm thinking my speedometer is calibrated close enough considering that website will also have some margin of error. But even using their mileage it's over 30mpg with 5.7L. Loving the 0.50 ratio double overdrive.

Alan