So I finally got my Dana ready to install! First, I needed video proof that the posi in my 9 bolt worked, before I sold it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgDaYFNOTsY

So we get the LT1 brakes on the rear


And we pull out the 9 bolt


I go to the parts store while my buddy tightens it all up and whatnot. I get back and help bleed the brakes, put the wheels on, and its time to go home!

4 miles later, and I get this


There was a whine, but my friend I bought the dana from told me about a whine so I didnt pay much attention to it. Well, a couple miles later the car bogged down. Strange. I took that immediate offramp. I hit the gas a tad and BANG!! MY car hopped off the ground, the wheels locked, and thank god I was able to control it and get onto the shoulder!! SOMETHING happened! I look under the car. No oil, no hanging driveshaft, no pieces on the road. WTF??? I call my buddy.
"Hey we have a problem!"
"Whats that?" he said
"Did you put in any gear oil?"

The string of obscenities coming from his phone would make a sailor blush. I heard a few "I'm so sorry" tossed in there too among the cussing lol

Yup. My dana grenaded because he didnt put any damn oil in it. THANKS!

So a towtruck finally came and saved me from that treacherous shoulder. I was almost hit half a dozen times in 30 minutes. You think people could drive in the actual LANE. Nahhh they all want to be speed racer and hug the shoulder doing 50mph.

Thank god again that my back wheels decided to roll while they got my car on the tow truck. Getting off the truck was a huge issue. the car wouldnt roll front OR back. It took us an hour to find a way to get my lowered thirdgen off the flatbed. We finally got it though, so I'm happy. I gave them a big tip for doing a great job with taking care of the car.

Anyway, my friend is going to pay to rebuild the axle. My question is WHERE do I source a master rebuild kit, and gears. With the carrier I have, and assuming its still good, I can get a 3.92 gear or higher (numerically).

Randys Ring and Pinion comes to mind. Anyone else??

 

I orderd my ring/pinion and installation kit from Jegs. Summit has the same parts too.
I went with Richmond. Made in the USA.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Richmond-Gear/...oductId=744490

http://www.jegs.com/i/Richmond+Gear/836/SD4403/10002/-1

 

is a dana 44 all the same stuff regardless if in a GM, Ford, Jeep, or thirdgen?

 

Not neccesarily.
There are a few oddballs. As long as you have the correct input shaft spline count you should be OK. There are only two that I've come across. The GMPP over the counter replacement for 3rd gens is a 26 spline. The other is very coarse. Something along the lines of 15 splines. I came across one that was factory installed in a 60's era Studebaker Avanti (of all things). There are also the reverse rotation ring and pinions for the front axle of 4 wheel drive applications.
Every else is the same as far as I know.
Here a few of the documents I've gathered over the years.
http://www.s-series.org/htm/tech/GMP...ts/182-185.pdf
http://www.camarotech.com/differential.html
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/AXSM-0053.pdf
The manual is for a floating axle like that in a 4 wheel drive however the ring and pinion arrangement is the same (at least in my experience).

 

verdict is in. pinion bearing got wiped out and sent the pinion back into the ring which exploded a bunch of teeth. New bearings and gears should fix it *whew*

 

damm man that sucks. glad to see its not worse.

nice little burnout to show your posi in the 9bolt is still tight.

 

At least all the parts are available.
Good luck.
Incidentaly, I'll be installing a full rebuild kit and gear set tomorrow.( Part numbers as listed above) The old 3.73's are worn right out. Noisey too.

 

Any progress?
I've just rebuiilt my Dana with all new parts. It's noisy as hell. Took it apart to verify all the specs and gear contact pattern (which all checked out) and it's still noisy.
I've been in talks with Richmond Gear (excellent and prompt replies) and it may come down to a defective gear set.
Pay close attention to assembly and be sure to keep notes regarding the pinion shims, carrier shims and pre load value.

 

yeah its apart now. Pinion bearing lost 3 rollers and was bent and melted. It was locked solid. The whole thing was blue and purple...must have got SUPER hot. Now that its apart I have all the numbers needed to give Randys Ring and Pinion. I'm going with another Dana/SPicer gear set.

Lost like 8 ring gear teeth, 4 pinion teeth, and literally bent the pinion. WTF?!

 

oh and nevermind the marks on the carrier. Always been like that.

 

My carrier has the same marks. I had thought that since mine was from an SCCA race car, it might have eaten a couple of gear sets in it's life time. Maybe not.
I suppose you'll have to take that carrier completely apart to clean it. More work.
I hope you haven't distorted the housing with the heat and pressure. That's a lot of damage.

 

it looks ok. Really crossing my fingers that it will be fine and not leak or be noisy or anything.

 

what are the benefits of the danna 44 over the gm 9 bolt ?

 

It's stronger.
That GM would have them built as an over the counter replacement for original equipment 10 bolts and BW 9 bolts says something. The Danas were also original equipment in Vettes and Vipers.

 

is the swap difficult ?

 

No finding a Dana is. Swap is as simple as unbolting old rear end and bolting in dana. nothing to it. Its the finding of the dana that will take lots of time. Ive been on and off hunting for one for a few years now.

 

I might as well say it before someone else does. It's not the strongest differential available for 3rd gen F bodies. Moser, Currie and Strange all make a bolt in piece that is superior.
It may not prove to be the cheapest either if you compare used units. There is plenty of aftermarket support though.

 

I'd have to agree with Skinny on his last point... I've got 2 Dana 44s sitting in my driveway (no they're not in 3rd gens), 1 of which isn't far from needing to be rebuilt even though it's only behind a 6-cyl, and so far I haven't noticed anything particularly magical about them. Kind of a "cool" thing to find one of the few out there for these cars, but only a very marginal "upgrade" in terms of actual results. If I was going to spend as much money as it would take to buy one of those for these cars and build it up, I think I'd take that money and use it for an aftermarket 12-bolt instead.

 

Yea i never said it was the strongest. I just have been keeping my eyes open for one in good shape for a reasonable price. Most people want Strange 12 bolt or Moser money for them which is why i keep passing on them. If im going to spend 1500-2000 ill just buy a brand new rear from strange or moser not a questionable used 20+ year old rear....if i can get one for 400-500 however ill take my chances and do it. Thats the only reason im keeping my eyes open. Stronger than a 9/10 bolt but potentially cheaper than aftermarket if i can find one advertised for reasonable cash.

 

I have 9 bolts and have had good luck with them. I have seen 10 bolts break but there are a lot more of them. I went with a ford 9 housing, torque arm, crossmember and axle kit from a company called auto weld and they are the best I have seen. They make a bolt in housing, torque arm and crossmember set-up that is pro stock grade. It is worth going to there website and look at what they offer.

 

I wouldn't say they are only a marginal upgrade but I would agree that they are more of a cool or period correct performance upgrade than a "unbreakable rear end". The d44 is not quite as strong as a 12 bolt admittedly, but they have an 8.5" ring gear which is only slightly smaller than a 12 bolts 8.75". The real difference is the d44 case is a bit smaller which leads to more distortion and broken rears but they are MUCH stronger than a 9 or 10 bolt rear end.

There is one guy in Houston (ESC on here) who's had a d44 for 15+ years from GMPP, he has had it behind a bunch of different motors most of which were 450+ hp, and he run's N20 and drives his car hard, never had to do anything but change the oil last time I talked to him about it.

I broke a 2002 ss camaro ten bolt in my car and replaced it with a d44 and have had no trouble in two years. Once I'm finished with the turbo on my car we'll see how the d44 likes 600+hp

It cost me $600 for the d44, and I had pyle brothers in houston rebuild the posi, put in new moser axles, and motive 3.73's and that was like $1000 for labor and parts. So for $1600 I have a brand new d44 essentially, which will remain in my car until it breaks and I'll post up when/if that happens.

If someone wants my d44 with 2000 or less miles on it I'm open to sell or trade, ideally for a used 4th gen 9" or dana s60. just PM me

 

So, its stronger than the 9 and 10 bolt, would it be good for 400 HP, any recommendations that wont cost an arm and a leg?

 

one will handle 400hp no problem, finding one in good shape for cheap... good luck

 

What specs. You I be looking for, I found a couple from old Jeeps, what should o br looking for?

 

you need a third gen specific one with a tq arm mount, thats why they are so hard to find for these cars

 

all is right again! I was out today so I didnt get a chance to test drive it but my buddy said its all together and runs great! *whew* I'll drive it tomorrow and finally enjoy my car again lol

Hey whats the "standard" break in procedure for new gears? 200 miles of light driving?

 

Heres a god article

 

sweet thanks! Thats like 3 trips "into town" and back. (I live on the boonies now) I can do that!

 

Richmond gears recommends 15 miles of normal driving, then a cool down period of an hour or more. Repeat 3 or 4 times.
Different sources, different answers.
I suggest doing a search of your own (perhaps your gear manufacturer's website) for info.

 

been driving it about 20 miles round trip the last couple days. I just want to bolt on some slicks and GO! By the time I get to 500 miles though it will be time to put it away for the winter.

 

You have a little time yet! Just drive more.
A couple of questions for you though if you can answer them.
My Dana is INCREDIBLY noisy. Gear whine at 50 mph. Other noises I can't even identify. All of my measurments looked to be spot on. Pinion depth. Pinion preload. Etc.
Do you know what the pinion shim measurement is? Did you do anything special to get the carrier bearing preload? The contact pattern that I established looked to be ok, yet the thing is way too noisy to have been done properly. Richmond asks that I send the gear set back for analysis but I'm like you, I just want to bolt on the slicks and go (which I have!).

 

Richmond gears are noisy. they are cut that way for strength, so they say.
Get a Dana spicer gear set or something else, that will help..

 

[QUOTE=TTOP350;5020124]Richmond gears are noisy. QUOTE]

Interesting. They DO have an odd looking finish, especially the pinion which has what appears a "serrated" look. This might account for the very shrill sound at certain speeds.
I'll be doing a full inspection and rebuild in the off season.
In the meantime, I'm beating the crap out of it. Made a half dozen passes with slicks (got my 60' in the 1.7x range) with no ill effects.
Richmond tech support wanted to know what the pinion shim thickness is so I'm asking others what they have.

 

my buddy installed spicer gears. They have a slight whine but nothing unbearable. As far as shim sizes etc I would have to ask him. I'll see if I can get that and get back to you.

I'm hoping to have miles on it by october so I can go to some test and tunes when the weather is cool and not humid. I've had my 6 speed in my car for like 6 or 7 years now and have never done a proper trip down the track with a set of slicks where I can just dump the clutch and go!

 

my motive gears in my 44 are silent, I always have heard the richmonds are loud

 

That would be great. Just for comparisons sake. Thanks.

So I'm hearing (no pun intended).
All sorts of interesting sounds, not just the typical gear howl I understand is inherent in an 11 tooth pinion (11 tooth pinion, 41 tooth ring gear , 3.73:1 ratio)

 

I hate to add this in, but I have ALSO heard that Richmond gears are loud, due to the way that they are cut for strength.

And just for the record, I'm jealous of you Dana 44 guys. I just got an 88 IROC as a parts car and it has the 9 bolt. I sure wish it had a Dana 44 in it!

Glad to hear that the op is running well. Its a testament to the 44's ability to take a hit!

 

There's no noise "inherent" in the 3.73 ratio.

Generally, higher ratios make more noise than lower ones, simply because there are fewer teeth; but 3.73 is no worse than any other. Better than most that are near it in fact, because it's 2 prime numbers, instead of just one like some of its near neighbors. 3.42 for example is 12 and 41 (only 1 prime #), 3.90 is 10 and 39 (NO primes at all), and so on.

The prime # thing is why certain ratios are "popular" and certain others, that are quite possible in terms of tooth size and count, are basically NEVER used. Like, you'll never see a 4.00, which might be for example 10 and 40.

 

It wasn't so much the 3.73 ratio that one of my builder friends was referring to (and where he gets his info from is often a mystery to me) but rather the 11 tooth pinion he said was noisy. In his experience anyway. I suppose that would stand to mean that ANY ratio using an 11 tooth pinion could be noisy.
That said, I don't believe my trouble comes from the aforemntioned pinion. Prime numbers notwithstanding, I believe it's a combination of poor installation (missed something somewhere) and a fatigued, possibly damaged/worn out housing. It lived it's entire life in an SCCA race car (right from the Dana plant) and probably had the crap beat out of it.

 

Can somebody please explain this phenomenon to me? I'm not a scientist or an engineer, but I AM a thinker...

I love the 3.90-ish gear set range, but its harder to find for me than most other sizes. I always wondered why, but I now I seem to have more questions than answers...