InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

This is REALLY strange... Not really sure what to make of it.

Put a new clutch in the car, and it's a "stage 2" but the pressure plate is the same as all the others. In fact it has the same part number on the outer ring as the Stock OE replacement pressureplate that came out of the car.

I always had a problem, as most of us T56 swappers do, of the first inch of clutch travel doing all the work, and not much happens in the last lower half of clutch pedal movement as it nears the floor.

However with the new clutch, when I put it "almost" to the floor, it shifts and works just fine. Unfortunately, when I push the clutch all the way through the last 1/4 inch or travel, there's a very clear and obvious banging around inside the transmission and I feel a pulsing vibration back through the pedal in time with the knocking.

I took it for a couple of shakedown runs around the block and it was fine as long as I didnt depress the clutch too far. Finally drove it to a buddy's house to get his opinion on the noise it's making, and it ended up stranding me. I went to put the car in gear and as I was depressing the clutch I heard a bang/pop and the clutch just sunk to the floor. I walked to my buddy's house up the road (fortunately within pushing distance - very lucky) and then by the time we got back to it the pedal was rock hard again, but it was clearly wrong, as you couldnt depress it at all. We got it to his garage, put it in the air and pulled the hydraulics off... I think the slave cylinder pushrod popped out of the clutch fork cup. We bolted it back up not being able to find anything wrong with it, Drove it around the block, worked fine, made the same banging noise with the pedal to the floor, and shifted just fine and worked prefectly as long as you didnt put all the way to the floor. We're both scratching our heads over it.

So what is there inside an LT1 T56's clutch setup that could cause a noise taht sounds like spokes hitting somethig stationary, but ONLY at full clutch disengagement... or maybe over disengagement given the nature of the hydraulics. The banging is increases and decreases with engine RPMs, so whatever it is, something stationary inside the bellhousing is getting banged by something that's spinning.

The only thing I can think of is to either manually put a stop somewhere to prevent the last half inch of clutch travel, or we can do the turnbuckle adjustable master cyl rod that a lot of the guys do here.

But I've just NEVER heard of anyone having this problem before and I'm really at a loss as to what could cause it. My buddy thinks the spring claws on the pressure plate are banging against the clutch fork. We were very meticulous in reassembly so I dont think there's anything loose or a bolt sticking out somewhere. I just dont see how the pressure plate claw springs could possibly flex out far enough that the clutch fork would hit it, but it makes as much sense as anything else. The sound is about what I would imagine from that, although I would think the frequency of the banging would be a lot higher if each spring claw was hitting the clutch fork. To my barely trained ear and judging by the RPMs involved, it seems that the frequency of the banging matches the RPMs as opposed to being several different hits per single engine revolution.
And I dont even think another new clutch would necessarily fix it either.

Any help would be appreciated, Im at a loss. I think we're just going to put an adjustable turn buckle on the master cylinder rod and hope that fixes it, but I just am concerned this is indicative of some other major issue.

How is the clutch fork supposed to sit in the pressure plate exactly? Im pretty sure it's in there correctly, but clearly something is wrong and I have no idea what it is.I tried to get the clutch fork inside the groove/flanges of the pressure plate's throwout bearing.

Only thing I found on google:

http://www.tpub.com/basae/93.htm

Am I correct in reading "Engaged" as "Foot on the pedal"? Because I would generally consider engaged to be "grabbing" from a strictly mechanical sense of what's going on, but it gets vague with semantics so Im not sure.


Edit:

Found this

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/driv...-floor-485293/

Sounds like the same problem...

I hope that's all it is...

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I figured out what it is...

Clutch fork is hitting the pressure plate at full disengagement.

I took a real close look at it today and you can see it pretty obviously:



That's raw metal in a ring around the pressure plate where it's hitting.

I can either let it clearance itself... LOL... or do the adjustable master cylinder rod mod... Or a pedal stop. Anyone ever seen this yet, though? Is it perhaps indicative of a bigger issue?

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Few years ago we put a 400 & t56 in a friends Camaro.

I don't recall the brand clutch, but a performance one.

We dropped the trans because the disc somehow moved installing it.

That was the only issue.

If the fork is seated, this is odd.

Drop the trans to clean up inside so nothing gets the clutch assembly & flywheel?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I went and looked at my old clutch's pressure plate and it has the exact same marks... it's an OE replacement clutch so it's not painted - wasn't quite as obvious, but the same ring is still there. I can only assume that it made the same noise or had the same problem at some point, maybe to a lesser extent, maybe not, but wore down to the point that it wasnt a problem anymore.

Very odd I think...

For the record, I have the clutch that came with the trans when i bought it out of the 4th gen trans am it was originally installed in, and it has none of these marks on it, so it must be something unique to my car, which can only be the pedal/hydraulics geometry.

I can pull the fork out, and then I can slide it back up into the TOB... feels normal. Did it several times but the fork just slides right into place and as I mentioned, it works perfectly except the last 1/4 inch of pedal travel.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Then your pedals are over extending the slave cylinder. Simple as that. As you mentioned, if only the first 1" of pedal travel is doing all the work then its time to adjust that clutch pedal position. I have mine adjusted so only the usable pedal range is available. It feel very sporty this way, no wasted movement.

BTW, I did not have this issue, but I am also using 4th gen pedals and a Tick master cylinder.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

How do you adjust yours? Are your tick hydraulics adjustable? I dont know anything about them, I wonder if that's a viable route. I hate hte idea of cutting a master cylinder rod on a $200 hydraulics set. But I dont even know how these things are supposed to be bled either, so I dont see how I could cinstall a new master anyway.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Yes the tick master cylinder is adjustable. It is also larger than stock so the pedal travel is shorter and requires higher effort. Fun for a weekend car, probably not so much in traffic.

It is basically this except the LT1 version. Expensive yes, but a nice piece. They use a Tilton master which is nice.

http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...or-ls1-f-body/

Honestly though, I'd cut and thread your stock cutch master to pedal bar to make it adjustable. I remember seeing instructions on here somewhere. I believe you can't just cut anywhere, don't remember the reason why though.

As for bleeding, the system bleeds by gravity, air bubbles rise. Before I bolted the slave onto the trans I pushed the piston in many many times to bleed the air out. Seemed to work fine. My slave also has a bleeder on it. Not all do.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I knew it before reading post 2. Get 4th gen pedals or find the thread here re: moving the pivot on 3 rd gen pedals.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

i had that when i tried to stick with the 3rd gen pedal set... as said above the pivot point is in a different spot and causes the over throw. i dont think i would leave it be.... spinning things hitting a stationary thing is bad.

liltrucker

im not sure if you solved the issue yet, but when i installed mine i had the same problem, what i ended up doing was pulling the trans out and taking off the T bracket that holds on the clutch fork and grinding about 1/8th inch off the bottom of it, this moves the clutch fork just far enough away to still engage the throw out bearing but not drag on the pressure plate, if that doesnt work ive heard of some guys who cut a notch in the clutch fork

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Thats the hard way to do it. Making your pedal adjustable would be easier and allow you to fine tune the pedal travel.

liltrucker

I agree it is harder but it doesn't cost anything, I didn't have the adjustable pedal option cuz I put the l98 t56 combo in an '83 s10 And I haven't found an adjustable pedal that will fit properly, but I can see why it would be more ideal

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

Hmm... I'm curious what clutch you went with? I have a Spec Stage 3 and I don't have a problem with the clutch hitting the fork. I also have the same problem of the effective range of the clutch being in the first range. It was wierd at first, but I got used to it. I simply don't push the pedal to the floor. I go until I feel the clutch disengage and then shift.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Guys, there is a very easy and cheap fix to this. You just need to modify the clutch push rod to be adjustable length. I think someone even created a how to. Do a search.

Do that and your clutch travel will be much shorter and you won't have problems with slave cylinder over extension.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, but I just dont want to do that. I worry about long term durability of that kind of "repair". I saw it years ago in the T56 swap thread, I know all about it, suggested it as a possibility earlier in the thread, but I just dont like the idea too much. I also lack access to a quality tap and die set... been one of those things I've been wanting for a while but they're not cheap.

I think I'm going to do a mod another guy on TGO did where they installed an 86 Cavalier slave cylinder with a larger diameter, so it takes more pedal travel to get the same slave cylinder travel. Worked like a charm for him and Im not so worried about a cobbled together hack to the master cylinder pushrod coming apart one day down the road. Those Cavvy slave cylinders are between $30-$60 bucks. If that doesn't work I will just do the adjustable master rod after all, but I really want to avoid having to pull all that apart. I really have horrible memories of trying to get those pedals and hydraulics in there (Was having some vertigo issues at the time) and I'd rather not mess with it again if I dont have to.

Was actually going to go ahead and do it today but I've caught some kind of horrible winter illness...

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Understood, at the end of the day, its a pretty standard procedure in the "custom" world. In fact you can buy adjustable master cylinders, they use a threaded rod just like I am proposing. There is no magic to some company doing it vs you. Just need to use your judgement and common sense of course. You should be able to modify the rod without removing the master cylinder. Don't quote me on that, but I don't see why not. Cut the rod with a Dremel and do most of the rest of the work on the bench.

No doubt a bigger slave will increase the usable pedal travel. Honestly though, make sure that is what you really want to do. In a performance application, the last thing I would want is longer than stock clutch pedal. Most go for a shorter travel, more fun when shifting fast.

Example adjustable rod:

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Okay if thats how the aftermarket companies do it then that eases my concerns slightly... But that turnbuckle is MUCH larger than the one I saw in the swap thread for reference.



The guy that swapped the cavvy slave cylinder said the pedal travel lightens up a LOT too, so I would assume that would slightly offset the disadvantage of a longer pedal. Didn't consider the "long" pedal travel aspect at all to be honest, I've been used to it for years and I figure the difference in perceivable pedal travel would be fairly hard to distinguish anyway. But maybe not...

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Yes but the turnbuckle length has nothing to do with the strength. As long as you make sure there is a at least 1.5 diameters worth of thread engagement, the joint is strong. Also be sure to use jam nuts on either side.

Yes, the longer the pedal stroke the lighter the clutch pedal will feel. How much really depends on the difference in size between the stock slave and the new one.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Okay, well I went ahead and did the Cavalier slave cylinder swap.

I havent driven around with it yet, but here is a quick synopsis.

The T56 hydraulic line near the gasket is too large in diameter to properly slot down into the Cavalier slave cylinder line. Only barely. The groove in the line that the roll pin slots into was about 1 mm too far out of the socket on the slave cylinder. We ended up messing around with it so much the hydraulics went dry.

So we just went ahead and pulled it all off and compared it. The hole is just barely too small, so we found a drill bit that fit perfectly into the T56 slave cylinder's "socket", and drilled out the cavalier slave cylinder's mating hole (heh). Super easy, took all of 5 seconds and next to no pressure. Probably plastic shavings in there, but we bled that thing so much that I cant imagine any of it is still there. If it fails then so what, it was 25 from rock auto. I can get another. We got most of it out by just turning it over, so I didnt deem it to be a big deal at all.

After that the line slid in no problem, no leaks. Then the joyous task of completely refilling and bleeding the entire system ensued. Took quite a while and a bit of experimentation with bleeding methods. The cavalier slave had an external bleed screw which I found to be invaluable in this process. I would not want to do this with a T56 slave. Also, gravity bleeding does not appear to work with clutch hydraulics. Perhaps there's some sort of trick to it I'm unaware of? May only apply to brakes after all.

Preliminary observations

1. The clutch pedal is VERY, VERY, VERY soft. It's like something I would expect from a 4 banger. My girlfriend's cable clutch integra is about the same as this.

2. With the engine off and the car in gear and the clutch depressed, it made no difference with the engine in gear or neutral to turn the rear axle by hand. With the engine in gear and the clutch engaged (not depressed) it's impossible to turn the rear tire. With the clutch on the floor it's the same as neutral. No discernible difference in torque required to turn the axle.

3. We had the rear in the air and went ahead and after the above, we went ahead and ran the car. Put it in gear and pushed the clutch in and got NO movement in the rear tire. About 1/2 inch off the floor the tires start moving. Remember this is no resistance in the air. So I cant judge how hard it is to get it in gear.

I didnt get around to putting the car on the ground and driving it around anywhere. But I can say that I'm very optimistic. If having the clutch on the floor and no resistance on the wheels results in not of the engine's torque making it to the rear wheels (I revved it to 2k just to be sure, my engine makes a TON of torque at that point) to turn them in the air, then I would imagine as long I'm barking up the right tree.

Im not sure how far from the floor "stock" engagement points are, but the T5 L03 car I drove a year ago was very similar to this. But the pedal is SOOO light. I kept bleeding it thinking it would stiffen up, but I think it's where it's going to be.

Another quick note:

But if anyone is wanting to use 3rd gen pedals with 4th gen hydraulics (I think the T56 master and the T5 master cylinder are the same piston size so they may be functionally identical, so you can save a TON of money that way, and you can use a stock pedal bushing that actually fits.) this does seem to be a viable swap. Only two concerns: 1. the drilling out of the hydraulic line mating bore to match the T56/4th gen hydraulic line was such a non issue its not really worth worrying about. Took all of 5 seconds. The gasket included with the new slave and the gasket that came out of the T56 slave were the same size, so Im not worried about sealing due to my "modification", but I will check just to make sure later on. Not completely plug and play, but very close. 2. The pedal is VERY soft. It feels like a 4 banger clutch. Im not used to that at all. As long as it works Im not too worried about it.


I did find an ATF leak somewhere... there's ATF around my rear seal, and closer to the bellhousing. Not a great deal of it, but I wonder what the odds are that rear seal ATF got all the way to the bellhousing mount bolts on the trans, or if a front seal leaked out and made it all the way to the rear. Im thinking the former, but probably more hoping. Just hoping the process of doing my clutch and having the thing tilted this way and that way might have allowed some ATF to drip out the back and cause the small amount of ATF I found. But I definitely need to keep an eye on it.

3rdGenMess

Good call on the slave over extention...your pedals pushing your fork into "never-ever land"...didnt get to read the whole post but did you notice excessive wear anywhere else on the clutch fork other then where master and fork meet???

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

Didn't read everything in this thread but I had that issue with mine and I'm running a stock clutch. I did the pivot mod on my 3rd gen pedal to stop it. An adjustable master or pedal stop will also work as I think they were mentioned.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

For the record, the pedal has stiffened up a little bit, but not much. THe engagement point is now much closer to the top of the pedal. Still a light clutch. Very easy to work with and works perfectly.

There is no wear where the master cylinder and clutch for meet... or where teh slave and clutch fork meet. It's where the fork and the pressure plate met that there was wear. And maybe I mentioned it in this thread, cant remember, but the same marks were present on the original clutch I took out of this car, but it wasnt painted so it wasnt as noticable.



You can see it around the edge here.


Im really glad now that im not the ONLY one that had this happen.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I installed a T56 using Thirdgen pedals & a used LT4 clutch years ago and never had a problem. Sure - the clutch engages high on the throw; no biggie to me.

Well fast forward about 10 years and my 355ci was pulled for a LT1. In the process a new stage 2 clutch kit was added into the mix. ON initial start-up the clutch sounded like,..... someone stuck their finger in a fan. Scared the hell out of me at first 'cause I thought a flywheel bolt fell out or somethin' ! The noise disappeared the second I let off the clutch. ( I had held the pedal firmly to the floor on start-up. ) After pushing the clutch pedal down again I realized that it was the pedal throw causing the noise.

Haven't made any changes & haven't heard it again since that first start-up. I'm softer on the pedal but it seems as if a slight groove was probably cut into the new PP and there's enough clearance that the fork so now it's got plenty of room.

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

What slave are you using that has a bleeder? I am using a Ram adjustable m/c and need to find a slave cylinder that has a bleeder for my T56 swap.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

Stock T5 slave has the bleeder in it. And since you have an adjustable master you should be able to use the T5 slave in the T56 without issue.

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

GOOD info and yea that sounds like a plan. Thanks.

Darendoover

Im having tue sMe problem when i push the clutch all the way down it makes a.knocking sound.but goes away when i let off slightly after driving for a very short time i can smell my clutch burning i was told it was throwout bearing so im in the process of putting a new clutch kit in it im replacing the clutch the throwout the pilot bearing and pressure plate... Im praying this zolves it if not what is it? im not very fimilar with manual transmissions. It never did this before until i was playing one day and dumped the clutch and now,it does it? Please help!

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Probably is the TOB or a clutch issue. I dont think you have a design problem like we have.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Got my cavalier slave and clutch back from spec. i will be installing it tomorrow night hopefully

t5 pedals/cavalier clutch/custom line

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

UPDATE:


THIRDGEN pedals and slave with a Cavilier(I used 1988 model year 4 cylinder) slave working well so far. I haven't gotten on it yet, but starting to release about 2" from the floor and has less than 1" of play at the top. So far, i couldn't be happier about it.


Hopefully I can put some miles on it and starting putting the power through it this week.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

Well, how did the Cavilier slave work in the end?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Mine still works great. In a perfect world I'd just have an adjustable master cylinder though.

cuisinartvette

I did the ajustabel mod like Internals pic shows makes no difference where the clutch grabs

Whats the diff between the 4th and 3rd gen pedals?

I have the rod end bolted directly to my pedal (67 a body).
It pushes the rod straight in but as it starts to bottom it forces the rod up some

Is there some pivot thing on the 4th gen pedal that fixes this? Cant be good for the seals.

Anyone got a pic or diagram of this?

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Cavalier slave is GREAT. Holding a Spec 3 and over 700 ft lbs of torque.

I have about 1000 miles on it. Releases perfectly.

So a rundown again for people wondering if they get this in a search

STOCK thirdgen pedals
STOCK thirdgen master cylinder
Custom SS line (How to make one is easy and in here several times)
1988 Cavalier slave cylinder
DONE!

cuisinartvette

Just fired mine up tonight

I redid the pedal geometry so the rod pushes in perfectly straight.

Guess what dont go into gear. New trans, slave GM fluted pilot bushing indexed perfect. Arm is about to hit the PP

I did the turnbuckle mod on the peda and added more adjustment.

From looking at the lower rod going into the cup it would seem if you made that adjustable youd never risk overextending the slave, it would hit the PP first.

I put close to 1000 mi on this setup in 2000 with no issues at all Im beginng to think my clutch (centerforce DF) Could be going bad somehow. Grabbed great never chattered nothing. Visibly perfect.

Or....maybe the design of the fork itself is bad. Wondering if it couldnt be tweaked a bit (mines brand new) it would never hit the PP and/or make that rod adjustable. no wonder GM discontinued this.

Im going to adjust it a tad bit more tomorrow if its THAT close the PP again I think its time for a clutch

Thats what the trans guy told me I really doubted him as 3 different specialists looked at the clutch and saw nothing wrong with it.

The fork moves quite a bit and the disc can baaarely move much at all doesnt make sense to me.

BEing as this has worked well before with NO adjustable pedal at all maybe the clutch is bad no reason to keep forcing the slave to go further. ARGHH!!!

Racing weather, new motor and cant afford a damn clutch.


Keep this one going


Anyone know how far the bottom rod is supposed to extend think the top one by the pedal is what, 7/8 or 1 in?

CF said the PP only needs to pull .030 away from the FW

cuisinartvette

Sounds like also if the PP is torqued too much this can cause a problem also
The GM bolts are long discontinued and told TTY so I used the McCleods. They said 50 lbs which I find hard to believe
they are between 35-40 now Im thinking maybe thats too much

What was the stock tq measurement maybe this is the problem. If the fingers are pulled in farther the clutch would have to pull that much more to release Id think

stock was like2x or 3x ft lbs plus so many degrees cant recall.

Ok called the trans guy he discounted that. I pulled my old slave rod out where it goes in to the fork. Going to cut it thread and turnbuckle overextending the slave isnt the answer. If this does work out the slave will last forever. If not guess I need a new clutch. Everything else is brand new and installed correctly

Think 1/4 in of adjustability should more than do the job.
If pedal mods have to be done to look right then so be it

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

i have 52lbs in my notes, but that seems high for what amounts to a 3/8s bolt. 35 sounds right.

cuisinartvette

just took my extra lower rod to a shop that sprayed some MIG on one end then shaped it in a lathe, $20!
Added .200 to the length hope this doesnt compress the lower slave when I bolt it on well see what happens.

THat rod was hardened so a little more difficult to tap.
Il be thrilled if this works

jmd

iTrader: (4)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...e-leaking.html

We definitely addressed this in prior threads. If it's grinding, the clutch / flywheel assembly is too tall somewhere. Correct it by machining the flywheel, getting a correct disc, or shortening the pivot for the fork.

If it's not releasing, the fork isn't pulling the bearing enough. Either by amount of travel (pedal attachment point vs. pedal pivot point, OR master / slave volume ratio, OR too short clutch / flywheel assy, OR bent throwout bearing, OR yeah, the pedal adjustment maybe.)

You sure seem to enjoy focusing efforts on adjusting that pedal. Carry on.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

22 to 25.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Might be worth knowing; What kinda' flywheel are you running ?? I was watching your progress with this mod and would have used it - but I havn't had problems !


A year after my last post here,............. I *think* I might have heard that noise while pushing hard on the pedal again one time since the "first start". ( can't be sure ! ) NEVER an issue while driving, only happened right @ start-up & probably because I was standing on the clutch pedal to adjust in teh seat at start-up time.

Thirdgen pedals, 4th gen Hydraulics, stage 2 clutch, LT4 PP, LT1 flywheel. I'm sure I wore a groove somewhere the first time it happened but it didn't last & wasn't about to tear it apart just too look. Next time I open the bellhousing up I'll remember to post a pic here !

cuisinartvette

Ill post the rest this on the other thread

Just took apart my old slave

1"(just a hair over actually) available throw til it bottoms out

Lower slave just over 2 inches

85Z28NOS

iTrader: (2)

I will just add that I have been running the cavalier slave mod and it works perfectly and was simple. I vary slightly from others in the fact that I am running 3rd gen pedals, 4th gen master with a cavalier slave, a brand new flywheel and a spec 2 clutch.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

That's exactly what I have. I figure that's the norm to be honest.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

I have 15k miles on at stock replacement LT1 clutch and flywheel, both were new when installed. This spring it locked up the pilot bearing so i switched to the bronze bushing. Hydraulics got replaced this year due to internal seal failure in the master, they were an original 4th gen set that came with the trans when i got it, I replaced with stock replacement prebled setup. Pedals are 4th gen that came with the trans as well. This all lives in an 84.

The only issue I had was pressure plate to fork contact when I tryed to keep the 3rd gen pedals initially. Switched to 4th gens and no issues.

cuisinartvette

JMD whats your opinion on shortening the fork pivot a tad?
Figured a little material removal at the fork would give pull it farther?
or
Being as the slaves are self adjusting it would have no effect?

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I've had opportunity where it would have worked. (balance plate in between the crank & fylwheel added .100" to the total flywheel/clutch package.)

But selling the 350 flywheel and buying a 400 flywheel made more sense, and corrected all problems.

And frankly, I don't know if I can keep up with all you have going on; I think you added .200" to the slave pushrod?

cuisinartvette

Yep

I dont like the fact that where the master gets the slave to release is right there at the verge of busting

Thought if I added material to the lower rod and played with it the slave may do less work, the rod more.

Guess the system being self adjusting makes that redundant. Maybe with an aftermarket slave it may help who knows

I wound up using the rod on this slave that came with it (unmodified).
The extended one came out of my old one .

Adding that shim you mentioned would have the assy sitting up higher needing more extension or am I getting lost here.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

It put the whole package .100 taller, which puts the TO bearing that far rearward.
The slave & fork remained stock position.
Instead of releasing the clutch, it ground into the pressure plate first. It was failing to reach the right release point by .100"

.100" off the fork pivot-tee would have worked.
Machining some of the flywheel backside at the crank and the balance plate to counteract the .100" would have worked.

I prefer things to be serviceable by buying stock, or widely available aftermarket parts. Having a flywheel that requires custom work before going in goes against serviceability. So it got a correct height flywheel.

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Instead of correcting things inside the bellhousing, the ability of the master to move more fluid shoved the slave piston into the retainer ring. Copy the stock fork geometry, piston bore sizes, pedal throw, and clutch height, and that piston won't come too close to the snap-ring.

cuisinartvette

Sounds like the best solution.
I dont want to take it all apart
Gonna try and drive it this weekend if it isnt 100% I may do the fork pivot deal you mentioned.
Good info, thanks

Been googling this for weeks not much solid info out there.

I like this solution
Had questioned if the McCleod scattershield I had may have thrown things off but suprisingly pretty accurate to the stock bellhousing.