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Thanks esc. The 3K price is a fully loaded unit. That's from Quick Performance. They sell a factory Ford housing, converted to bolt into the 3rd gen F-body, with Moser axles for $995. They also sell a nodular case with Eaton posi for about $800. The 3K price includes their lighter, stronger fabricated housing, gun drilled axles and aluminum Yukon case with Truetrac. It's about the best 9" ford swap available in the power level I'll be running. I know the ford 9" is a heavier unit than the stock or the Dana 44. I figure if I'm going to go the 9" route, the lightest option is the best option.
It took me quite a few years and a missed opportunity to find mine. I wanted a bolt in unit that would use the factory brakes without hassle. Also, wanted the "vintage" speed part for my car.
I can appreciate wanting the factory part. Factory stock, but better. I can't comprehend that, as long as I've been involved with GM, I never knew the Dana 44 was available from GM Performance. I've owned 3rd gens since 1982. Worked for GM in the early 90s. I bought my 87 IROC 20 years ago. I just wasn't looking closely enough back then I suppose. I have settled on a 9" from QP. I was at 3K shipped for a way overbuilt unit. I trimmed back just a hair to a unit that will still be more than I'll ever need and the price is down to 2.7K. It will be about 5lbs heavier than the stock 7.5" and will handle over 600hp. I'm okay with swapping in the Ford rear axle as long as it fits clean. My current rear brakes are the 2002 Z28 kit from Fly N Bye. I may have to work on the brackets to fit the QP housing but I'm getting it with 4th gen housing ends so it shouldn't be too far off. I installed these brakes with the Fly N Bye 13" rotors and 4 piston Wilwood fronts. I am always saving money aside for one thing or another for the IROC. It's an on going project that will never be complete. When I'm too old for it, it will go to my son. I have money saved to replace the 18 year old Koni struts and install new upper strut mounts. The struts will have to be bumped to second in line while I take care of the rear axle. Hope to have it ready to go again for next summer.
other than a D44, my choice would be a 8.8 ford swap like these from Hawks 8.8 rear end
I wish they sell just housing ready to build as the internals are available reasonable and if you went 28 spline you could reuse 88 and up axles which are plenty strong for street and mild strip use It would be great if they were available for under 1,000$ I would have no problem with the 8.8 its basically a copy of the GM 12 bolt
I would have no problem with an 8.8 too, I just don't like the hawks one. Having a bunch of plate welded to a cast iron center section with some through bolts to add strength, to me that just seems like a hack job when for pennies more you can get a 12 bolt or S60, or if you look hard enough, a 44.
I would have no problem with an 8.8 too, I just don't like the hawks one. Having a bunch of plate welded to a cast iron center section with some through bolts to add strength, to me that just seems like a hack job when for pennies more you can get a 12 bolt or S60, or if you look hard enough, a 44.
I wouldn't exactly call it pennies more to go 12 bolt or S-60. The weld on mount if done properly isn't big deal, I got about 75% done with a fourth gen swap before I gave up- because I sold the car and bought a low mile WS6 formula, then I didn't need it. the biggest problem is being able to heat the pumpkin and weld it hot with nickel rod. I presume whoever is making these for Hawks is well aware of this, welding cast iron isn't impossible it just takes good preparation. A lot of people that have done this in fourth gen world without issues and 8.8 are plentiful, affordable and stout.
now back on the Dana 44's
For the record, the axles measure:
29.125" and 30.125"
from the back of the mounting flange to the end of the axle.
can anyone add info about axle length, I also found one source saying 29.25"+29.75" Im looking into Tom's KA axles vs repairing the damaged studs -weld and redrill 'em
It's entirely likely that there are two different sets of axle lengths. It was pointed out in this thread that there is an "early" and "late" style configuration to the axle ends where the bearings, seals and retainer are arranged. This could result in slight differences in overall length. My measurements came from the engineering drawings that I have from Dana.
Yes. That would be good to have. I'm pretty at least one poster here measured and was looking to have some aftermarket axles built. I'll nose around and see if I can't dig up some info. And if can find my drawings (Dana drawings that is) I'll post what the results are.
Sorry about that. I was so excited to find any dimension that I posted without thinking.
One person in this thread had been in touch with Moser regarding having something made. Maybe there's some info there.
Mines out of the car now but I have to make room I use a 30? gallon metal barrel to set them on to do tear downs and rebuilding, I should be able to do it this weekend when the 8.5 is gone that I'm building now. I talked to Moser about repairing them and putting stock 12x1.5mm studs back in it, Drew suggested getting new axles so I thought I'd check on new $$ - that would probably cost triple what Moser quoted to fix em but one less shipping fee -Just thought I'd ask if anyone had ever Last I knew I used to get jobber pricing from Tom's diff but he recently past and the daughter is running it now and she's not up on this like Tom was- "Happiness is a Tite Posi"
OK got it apart and measured one is 30 1/2" and other is 29 5/8"" - stout axles no taper like GM c-clip axles
I had a chance to pull my dana apart this weekend and I'm glad I did. I noticed the spacers were adding waaaaay 2 much end play with the axles. With the tapered bearing it would have caused bearing failures and leaks.
When I removed the spacers (between the backing plate and axle flange) I noticed the driver side was thicker than the pass side. The axles still have a very slight amount of play without the spacers.
Need to make a call to spicer and find out how much preload or play the axle bearings should have.
What spacers are you referring to? The later version of the D44 I have(apparently;y from the posts in this thread there are two iterations) has no spacer to speak of.
Then again, maybe I'm missing something.
If you go back to the picture I posted, there is a spacer between the axle flange and the backing plate. I'm not sure if it came with the rearend or what but it def didn't need to be there.
Having another look at your backing plate arrangement leads to think that's how the previous owner centred the caliper over the rotor. Does that makes sense? Without that shim, the rotor is in the same spot relative to the centreline of the car. Adding that shim would push the inner pad closer to the rotor. In my case, I added the shim between the caliper and backing plate/caliper. A 30 thou shim washer on one side and maybe half off that on the other.
It came from a firehawk race team so who knows for sure. That's not a good way to center that bracket but I'd bet you'd be correct. It would have failed if run for sure. Waaaay to much in/out play on the axle. I think it should have a bit of preload and 0 play in/out but I haven't found any spec for that yet.
I am interested in seeing how this works out for you Tony. My dana had the iron caliber brakes on it when I got it, and no spacers of any kind. I am still on the hunt for a set of PBR backing plates, then I am going to assess the bearing and preload situation from there. I have a very cool dana spicer certified installer that I have used a ton of times, and I think I’m going to get all of my parts rounded up, and brakes fitted, then take him the entire rear and and have him set up new bearings, seals, and get it ready to slide under the car.
2 quarts is about right.
Interesting comment from Street Demon with respect to the stock steel cover. Typically, you fill through the hole in the cover until lube starts to trickle out. That worked well when I had the stock cover. Once I moved up the reinforced aluminium cover, the fill hole was nearly a full inch higher. This allowed a massive amount of lube into the axle to the tune of nearly 4 quarts. It would constantly be blowing out through the vent and was a real problem,. My "Jeep" guy, who re-rebuilt the diff knew exactly the problem and the remedy. He drilled a small hole in the cover (below the fill plug) and tapped it for a 1/8" pipe plug at the appropriate full mark. Remove both plugs then fill until lube starts to leak out the lower hole. 2 quarts and the vent hasn't seeped since.
FWIW, the D44 was always a little noisy despite a couple of different gear sets. We finally settled on Red Line Shockproof gear lube. Never looked back. Plus I use the Ford friction modifier.
I know GM 8.5 diffs take 2 quarts and figured that was close but the rear in my car had fluid all over- greasy mess so I figure it was overfilled and I know most Jeep guys have the housings rotated for correct driveline axles so that's probably why fill plugs are in different locations Mine-below looks in about right location so I guess up to but no more than 2 quarts
The idea is to fill the housing to the point where lube is just up to the axle tubes. That's a practical limit and the plug tends to line up with that level. <br />I have an aluminium girdled cover and the fill hole was placed above the girdle cover brace. Consequently I inadvertently filled the axle tubes and that added almost an additional 2 quarts. Too much for sure. Once that issue was addressed about 2 quarts did the job. Give or take. <br /> IMG 5198
Does the D44 use a crush sleeve? I got one last weekend and started taking it apart. Someone put their dirty D beaters in it because the preload on the pinion is WAY off, it feels like the bearing cups have been deformed and it is not smooth to spin. I can't get the nut off without an actual yoke holder, which I will get soon, so I haven't been able to figure out whether there is a crush sleeve in there or not, and if there isn't that might not be correct anyway since someone has opened this before.
I will have input for this thread soon now that I have one. Some of the part numbers listed at the beginning aren't available as posted. I have been researching and will be buying soon so I can put this axle back together.
There is no crush sleeve. Pinion depth is set by shim washers. They're behind the inner pinion bearing race. I modified a race so that I didn't have to drive it out each time I made an adjustment. It's a PITA otherwise.
There is no crush sleeve. Pinion depth is set by shim washers. They're behind the inner pinion bearing race. I modified a race so that I didn't have to drive it out each time I made an adjustment. It's a PITA otherwise.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The crush sleeve is to set the preload for the front bearings, not set the depth of the pinion.
I know what you're talking about though, the 9 bolt and my D60 front axle have the races shimmed, but you can also shim the bearing on the pinion if you want.
Can someone tell me what the retention should be on the yoke for the U joint? I bought 41195 as per the Yukon site for the D44 and that part won't work. It may take a u bolt to retain the cap on the U joint?
**NM, I went and measured and looked in the Spicer catalog. 2-94-28X is the Dana part number. I should have measured before I ordered**
Also the U joint for the stock DS (3R or S44) and this 1330 yoke is a Spicer 5-793X
Possibly. There's this available at Summit but you best bet is a 4 X 4 specialty shop. It's where I had my D44 rebuilt the last time. Seems those kind of shops have a lot of familiarity with these axles.
My axle is back together and in the car. Final axle assembly went as follows:
From outside towards center carrier
Disc Brake Caliper Mount - Spacer - Bearing Retainer - Seal - Bearing - Lock Ring
It's been a while but there's another member with interest in the Delco/flush axle flange version of the D44.
Do you have part numbers for the bearings, seals and lock rings? I'm also curious to know if there's a difference between early and later versions.
Axle lengths are another thing that's been asked time and again.
OK got it apart and measured one is 30 1/2" and other is 29 5/8"" - stout axles no taper like GM c-clip axles
Hey zman. It's been awhile but the subject has come up again regarding axle lengths.
What parts of the axle did you measure to determine the dimensions you posted?
Which version of the D44 do you have? Early for the Delco calipers with a flush axle flange end or the later version for PBR calipers and a stepped /shouldered axle flange end?
Thanks on behalf of another member here.
Ordered some timken pinion bearings for another D44 project. Nice to see they are all USA except 1 of them,. Didn't know they are also sold by DT.
That's interesting and perhaps a cautionary tale.
I ordered a full set of bearings for my D44 from Drive Train Specialists. Of the 12 pieces, (pinion bearings and races for 4, carrier bearings and races for 4 plus axle bearings and races for 4 more) and all were made in the USA except for one. That one was made in India.
Guess which one failed?
Then I came across a trade paper describing the influx of counterfeit bearings. Companies like Timken were using 3rd party suppliers (nothing unusual there) and those suppliers were providing the poorly made bits.
IIRC, the part that let go on me was one of the pinion races. It shed all of it's chrome faced goodness and proceeded to add metal shrapnel into the housing. Quite the mess. And expense.
I've all the details archived somewhere if anyone is interested (and I can find it).
Caveat emptor!
I was hoping I wouldn't hear anything like this buuuuut I kind of figured..
Originally Posted by skinny z
That's interesting and perhaps a cautionary tale.
I ordered a full set of bearings for my D44 from Drive Train Specialists. Of the 12 pieces, (pinion bearings and races for 4, carrier bearings and races for 4 plus axle bearings and races for 4 more) and all were made in the USA except for one. That one was made in India.
Guess which one failed?
Then I came across a trade paper describing the influx of counterfeit bearings. Companies like Timken were using 3rd party suppliers (nothing unusual there) and those suppliers were providing the poorly made bits.
IIRC, the part that let go on me was one of the pinion races. It shed all of it's chrome faced goodness and proceeded to add metal shrapnel into the housing. Quite the mess. And expense.
I've all the details archived somewhere if anyone is interested (and I can find it).
Caveat emptor!
I have a couple Timken bearings for my unit rebuild and the bearings are USA made and a couple races are India made too. Might look at getting some SKF or National to replace them
Does anyone have a stackup of the parts for the pinion? There is mention of a slinger in the parts numbers and I found a round copper/bronze looking washer in my housing, but I am not sure where it goes, if it goes at all.
Also there are shims on the pinion that aren't in the Yukon shim kit, at least not the same size as what was in the housing? I have shims on the outside of the tail bearing, between the yoke and the bearing, shims behind the tail bearing cup, and I assume a shim between the head bearing cup and housing, plus the other shims that are on the pinion, near the end of the spline there is a step and this is where those shims sit.
I've got a couple of service manuals. These D44's have been around forever and in various forms. From full floating Jeep axles to IRS Vette's. Maybe something in my pile of digitized books will help you. I've also got bite sized pages of the large factory prints saved as PDFs.
I'll post the whole shebang in a new thread.
Maybe something will stick.
Ordered some timken pinion bearings for another D44 project. Nice to see they are all USA except 1 of them,. Didn't know they are also sold by DT.
Going to back our discussion about the early and late style housing ends, the parts you ordered are for which version?
There's a guy here who is still looking for parts. I've got the install kit and bearings PNs for the later version. Not sure what the differences might be between the two.
Any chance you have pictures of the bare housing ends?
EDIT: Going back to the threads on this, I've found the pictures of both styles previously posted.
09-11-2018, 11:48 AM
