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Going to back our discussion about the early and late style housing ends, the parts you ordered are for which version?
There's a guy here who is still looking for parts. I've got the install kit and bearings PNs for the later version. Not sure what the differences might be between the two.
Any chance you have pictures of the bare housing ends?
EDIT: Going back to the threads on this, I've found the pictures of both styles previously posted.
So far I've just replaced the pinion and carrier bearings, not sure we'll get to the axle bearings for a bit.
I see. That would be to centre the caliper over the rotor I suppose? I use individual shim washers at the caliper to achieve that.
I was curious how far you had to shim your calipers out? I used a .10 thick washer and have only about .017 clearance from the outer rotor face to the caliper carrier bracket, and quarter inch from the inside face to the bracket. Looks like I'm going to have to stack at least a couple washers, but I need to snag some longer bolts. I wasn't expecting the caliper alignment to be so far off.
I was curious how far you had to shim your calipers out? I used a .10 thick washer and have only about .017 clearance from the outer rotor face to the caliper carrier bracket, and quarter inch from the inside face to the bracket. Looks like I'm going to have to stack at least a couple washers, but I need to snag some longer bolts. I wasn't expecting the caliper alignment to be so far off.
Certainly not as much as you're describing.
30 thou comes to mind but I'd have to get back in there to verify.
Is the stack up parts on the axle end correct?
Do you have a shouldered axle tube end (version 2) or a flush tube end (version 1)?
They are assembled in a slightly different order.
There are posts above that show the differences and it could be that there's something in the incorrect place.
This is currently how mine is stacked. The PO had the DM brackets on the axle and they where not installed prior to the bearing and seal. They were bolted inboard, and I just simply mounted the PBR brackets inboard as well.
Last edited by Anti-Venom; 05-17-2023 at 01:37 PM.
That would to match mine where on the end of the axle tube has a shoulder which serves to locate the bracket.
FTR, the order of the parts is (from the axle tube end):
Caliper mount, then mounted on the axle: locking collar, axle bearing and retainer.
I've added shims between the caliper and mount as needed as it looks as you have as well. But not a lot was required.
If you check the top picture I posted, that is another members early version and you can see a shim behind the caliper against the axle tube end.
Maybe that would change things up for you?
This is currently how mine is stacked. The PO had the DM brackets on the axle and they where not installed prior to the bearing and seal. They were bolted inboard, and I just simply mounted the PBR brackets inboard as well.
From the looks of it, your backing plate/caliper mount is installed incorrectly.
The flange should be inboard with the flat face towards the rotor as in the pictures above.
That could account for your the off-centre you're seeing.
EDIT: Further clarification below. It may not make a difference which way it's installed.
That would to match mine where on the end of the axle tube has a shoulder which serves to locate the bracket.
FTR, the order of the parts is (from the axle tube end):
Caliper mount, then mounted on the axle: locking collar, axle bearing and retainer.
I've added shims between the caliper and mount as needed as it looks as you have as well. But not a lot was required.
If you check the top picture I posted, that is another members early version and you can see a shim behind the caliper against the axle tube end.
Maybe that would change things up for you?
,
I wish I would have taken some pictures of the end of the tubes before I put it back together. I think I'm going to pull a side back apart and look at it closer. Because the spacing does seem excessive in comparison to everyone else's experience.
I believe, and maybe Tony can chime in and verify. But I thought I recalled him saying he had some axle bearing pre-load issues with those spacers?
So for clarification, You have the PBR Brake adapter plate "inboard" flush up against the axle tube end?
,
I wish I would have taken some pictures of the end of the tubes before I put it back together. I think I'm going to pull a side back apart and look at it closer. Because the spacing does seem excessive in comparison to everyone else's experience.
I believe, and maybe Tony can chime in and verify. But I thought I recalled him saying he had some axle bearing pre-load issues with those spacers?
So for clarification, You have the PBR Brake adapter plate "inboard" flush up against the axle tube end?
Check my last post.
I think the source of your issues is with the orientation of your backing plate.
And yes, the adapter plate is up against the axle tube end. Flange facing inboard.
Then assembled axle slides into place.
EDIT:
Having had a better look, except for some possible interference issues, the plate is flat so it shouldn't affect the centering.
Check my last post.
I think the source of your issues is with the orientation of your backing plate.
And yes, the adapter plate is up against the axle tube end. Flange facing inboard.
Then assembled axle slides into place.
EDIT:
Having had a better look, except for some possible interference issues, the plate is flat so it shouldn't affect the centering.
Yeah. Backwards. But I don't think that'll represent an offset issue.
It does give you a reason to go back and verify the stack up of parts though.
Keep us posted.
You have the shouldered axle tube the same as mine. I believe that's the later revised version.
I've gone back through this thread looking for pictures of the obvious to try and figure out where your excessive offset is coming from.
Originally Posted by skinny z
I most certainly have a "lip" or shoulder that serves to register the caliper mount. Once the caliper mount is in place, the thickness of it is equal to the depth of the shoulder and there is now a flush surface for the bearing retainer to bear against.
That explains that.
.
To clarify, you've got excessive clearance is on the inboard side? It would be as if the axle was sticking out too far is that right (seeing as the caliper mount is fixed in position)?
You did say you got this D44 in pieces didn't you?
The next step, would be for me to measure from the face of the caliper mount to the backside of the axle flange. The compare it to yours.
One thought I have is that maybe your bearing isn't fully seated on the axle? That would present itself as being too long.
Unless I have the whole offset backasswards?
The gap between the caliper mount (with the retainer) and the rotor.
I was curious how far you had to shim your calipers out? I used a .10 thick washer and have only about .017 clearance from the outer rotor face to the caliper carrier bracket, and quarter inch from the inside face to the bracket. Looks like I'm going to have to stack at least a couple washers, but I need to snag some longer bolts. I wasn't expecting the caliper alignment to be so far off.
Sorry jumping in here late but was reviewing your dilemma; Been a while since I was inside my D44 & was looking at several pics from my "early" model (1988)
You may want to verify that the bearing cup is fully seated in the housing with no spacers behind it and that the tapered bearing retainer collar was pressed fully on the axle shaft and seated completely. If it wasn't wouldn't either of these give you the condition you are describing? with the rotor face sticking out too far.
Thought this would be worth posting and preserving.
It shows the difference in the axle tube ends between the early, flush end and the later, shouldered end. I'm using a best guess as to the early/late identification. I've engineered drawings that are dated 1991 and it looks to show a flush tube. Yukon Gear's catalogue breaks the D44 available for the Camaro into 84-85 and then 92-94. It may be the differences in the caliper mounting plates between the PBR and the Delco Moraine and how they register on the tube end. The drawings clearly show the DM mounting bracket as well as the backing plate.
From what I can tell is that all parts are interchangeable with respect to bearings and seals, and possibly axles. The stack up of components, as in the their order of installation is slightly different.
The is the tube end that's shown in drawings dated 1991-93.
It also shows the early Delco Moraine iron caliper mount and backing plate.
____________________________________________________________
This is the tube end that I have (although this picture isn't mine). It's fitted with a caliper mount for the PBR brakes.
I bought my D44 from a Dana employee who used it in his SCCA racer. I suspect it's the latest version available.
Your backing plates are on the wring sides. Need to swap them, there is a bit of an offset to them.
I had posted the same observation myself although after a quick glance at the plates, I couldn't see an offset one way or the other. They look to be flat other than the lip. I've been wrong before though...
The Delco Moraine caliper mounts, as opposed to the PBR versions, look to have an offset though. I've not had a set in my minds in I don't know how long but the Dana drawings show a significant offset to the inboard side.
Yeah, there is a offset to them, if you look there is a pressed line about 1/2" past where the caliper mount holes are.
i also have a nos set in my stash to confirm it.
if it's 1/16th of an inch, I'd be very surprised
Originally Posted by skinny z
I had posted the same observation myself although after a quick glance at the plates, I couldn't see an offset one way or the other. They look to be flat other than the lip. I've been wrong before though...
The Delco Moraine caliper mounts, as opposed to the PBR versions, look to have an offset though. I've not had a set in my minds in I don't know how long but the Dana drawings show a significant offset to the inboard side.
I searched the interwebs looking for a picture of the shouldered axle tube. My search brought me back to thirdgen. Go figure.
As I mentioned, I've got the same edition D44 but didn't take a lot a pictures during the rebuild. Or subsequent rebuild. Cell phone cameras just weren't as handy back then.
Thought this would be worth posting and preserving.
It shows the difference in the axle tube ends between the early, flush end and the later, shouldered end. I'm using a best guess as to the early/late identification. I've engineered drawings that are dated 1991 and it looks to show a flush tube. Yukon Gear's catalogue breaks the D44 available for the Camaro into 84-85 and then 92-94. It may be the differences in the caliper mounting plates between the PBR and the Delco Moraine and how they register on the tube end. The drawings clearly show the DM mounting bracket as well as the backing plate.
From what I can tell is that all parts are interchangeable with respect to bearings and seals, and possibly axles. The stack up of components, as in the their order of installation is slightly different.
The is the tube end that's shown in drawings dated 1991-93.
It also shows the early Delco Moraine iron caliper mount and backing plate.
____________________________________________________________
This is the tube end that I have (although this picture isn't mine). It's fitted with a caliper mount for the PBR brakes.
I bought my D44 from a Dana employee who used it in his SCCA racer. I suspect it's the latest version available.
I like the stepped housing ends. they are nice allowing you to slide on the brake backing plates of your choice without the need to press off the bearing and wedding ring but, its worth noting you cannot shim your backing plates at the axle housing flange or you will risk losing the clamping force the seals outer edge puts against the roller bearing cag/retainer.
attached is the picture Skinny Z shared with me when i was trying to verify my measurements and keep my sanity dealing with the company for the axles bearing offset. I have also included the PDF for the Bill of materials. its interesting they noted the second one as a 92-1/2 and up
you can see the stepped lip on the housing is only the thickness of the backing plate (about 1/4") any more than this will leave a gap between the seal and the bearing allowing excessive end play and bearing failure
PDF attached of the bill of materials listing and PDF for the trackloc service manual. I have a bunch of little info on these but trying to limit all the little added posts to this already long post
Last edited by 88 350 tpi formula; 12-10-2023 at 09:06 AM.
Reason: Added the GM Picture for '83 release
Sorry, it's been a while since I've been on here. I wanted to thank everyone for the help. I hadn't pulled the axles back out to recheck that everything was properly seated yet. I did however correct the backing plates prior to the idea of checking. I'll try to get a measurement from the backing plate to the back of the wheel flange for comparison.
03-28-2021, 12:54 PM
