This isn't the ultimate rebuild but will certainly be far ahead of what I had. Considering THAT transmission held up to my power output levels, THIS transmission should have built in head room. Room for growth once I step up the cubic inches, which I think is inevitable (!).
I figured I'd list my upgrades here. Comments and criticisms are welcome.
In no particular order:

New input drum. GM.

Input drum reinforcement kit. Sonnax.

Stamped steel forward clutch piston (to go with the reinforced drum). GM

New sunshell. The Sonnax Smartshell is the new standard and is much improved over the "Beast".

3-4 clutch pack: Raybestos Z pack.

1-2 extra-wide band. Either the Alto Red or Raybestos.

29 element forward sprag. Borg Warner.

TransGo shift kit. It has most of the upgraded valving. .500" boost valve, TV valve for WOT 3-4 shifts. High rev 3-4 clutch spring kit. Servo springs.

2nd gear servo. Either the "Corvette" servo or the bigger Sonnax billet piece.

4th gear servo. Sonnax.

I'm on the fence with the two 5 pinion planetaries. Not the cost as it's modest for what you get but rather the fitment. There were several design changes since they were introduced 20 years ago and any of the 5 pieces needed for a complete swap could bring the build to a stop if they're not compatible. I'm on the threshold of needing them. All parts here are genuine GM. Worst case is I get them and if they don't fit, I can sell them.

There are a few items I'm sure I haven't listed but that's about it. The need for upgraded input and output shafts just ins't there to justify the additional cost.
Same with using an OEM 10 vane pump. The billet parts are pricey. The 13 vane pump requires a proprietary pump housing or the 10 vane housing has to be machined. I'm hoping this isn't a mistake. I've seen more than one or two pump failures.

Plan is to have it built at the start of the new year. I have a new converter which just so happens to be exactly the same converter I had before. I'll be talking to TCI to see just why the turbine splines stripped out in the old one. It better not be a torque thing. If it is, their converters don't have much capacity.

Feel free to provide any insights or experiences.

'

 

The last trans that went into my car had the 5 pinion planets beast and the 13vane pump installed. things seem to be holding up well. My trans guy said most pumps fail on the 1st startup then later they completely let go. He thinks the pumps aren't primed well b4 the 1st startup.

 

The pump is a tough one. Plenty OEM 10 vane pumps are surviving but you always read about the broken ones. There was more than one person who posted in my other thread regarding pump failures. You builder has an interesting take on it.
10 or 13 vanes, unless it's a billet piece, one is as prone to breaking as the other. Some have suggested that the 13 might even be more so due to the lack of material between the supports for the vanes. But the internet is full of that kind of information so it's difficult to draw any meaningful conclusions. That yours is still doing the job is the good news story that you don't read about often. People report on the bad news.
That said, as the engineering improves for part "A", the weaknesses of part "B" are exposed and on and on it goes. That's exactly where I expect to find myself after this transmission is in service. Reinforced input drum, Sonnax Smartshell, 5 pinion planetaries...what's going to give up next as power input increases and the miles pile on? Hopefully not the pump. That my converter splines let go seems to be on the unusual side as far as failures go. I'll be talking to TCI about. Not that I expect anything conclusive from them.

 

I'm not a trans guy by any stretch but I sure have blown up my share. I'm looking at some of these newer parts to help the longevity of my unit and to replace some of the fuses that could be showing up down the road.

 

Exactly.
I've got the ATSG "TH700-R4 Update Handbook" and it covers the TH700 series of transmissions from their inception in the early 80's up to their eventual discontinuation in '93. Then it goes on to describe changes made in the 4L60E/4L65E into the 2001 model year. All the upgrades that are adaptable to the earlier 700 are listed. Most improvements, like the 5-pinion planetaries are a drop in provided you have all of the correct parts. Later today actually, I'll have all of those components and they'll be on their way to my rebuilder. Those parts are right over the counter at my GM dealer.

http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/...gs/TH700R4.pdf

 

Getting a little deeper into the spec sheet for a better 4L60.
Lots of re-manufacturers have build lists for their various "levels". I've taken from the best where I could.
Most of what I've found was the steady parade of improvements GM constantly made to increase torque capacity and durability. Things like the 5-pinion planetaries and steel apply pistons are all ACDelco. Besides the better friction materials supplied by the aftermarket, the balance of the upgrades comes down to valving. Sonnax and TransGo provide just about everything needed to build any spec of transmission needed.
This is just about the final specification that I'll be going with. My builder will supply the rest of the rebuild components, gaskets, seals, pump rebuild kit (to go with the billet rotor) and the like.

 

Awesome info Skinny. I just picked up a 4l60e from a 97 z28. Would this stuff still apply for the "E" version?

 

The GM hard parts are a direct fit.
So too are the improvements to the OEM parts like the input drum reinforcement kit and the sun shell.
The difference with the 4L60E is largely in the valving when comparing it to the 4L60. I picked the TransGo kit this 700 partly because of recommendations of guys like Dana at Pro Built and partly from experience. The E version I think is better suited to the Sonnax Performance Pack.
I'm also putting a build sheet together for a 4L60E with the best that the 4L65E will supply. I'll post that up later.

 

The parts list is a little different. More Sonnax. Less TransGo. Same planetaries, pistons, sprags. This list is a little longer too in that I don't have a core yet. I may be able get additional parts from a 4L65E donor. About the only thing not addressed in either spec sheet is better input and output shafts. There's a hefty jump in price (from what I'm finding) and for all intents and purposes, probably beyond what I need now or in the future.
Not listed is what the builder brings to the table. It has to be put together properly. With the long list of mods, somebody has to know what they're doing.

 

I'd never ever bead blast the case.

 

Why is that? Are you concerned with contaminating the inside?

 

skinny, FWIW, neither my builder buddy nor I have broken stock input and output shafts behind 600 hp. He's made several hundred 1/4 mile passes with his at that power level, cutting high 1.3x 60' times in a 3800 lb car. I've made several hundred passes at ~530 hp cutting low 1.4x 60's, and a handful at 650 hp when spraying.
These are mid-90's vintage shafts, so I don't know if those from older transmissions will hold up as well. It's possible GM made subtle changes to them for durability since they went into a lot of pickups destined for heavy duty.

 

Yes, that stuff gets everywhere!!!

 

It's good to hear of some success in the real world. That's encouraging.
Yes. There have been improvements over the years although in as far as I have been able to determine, the greatest strides came when the 4L65E platform arrived.

Interestingly, it's the splined hub inside the torque converter, where the turbine connects to the input shaft, that failed. At least insofar as I can tell. I'll be sending the TC back to TCI for inspection.
The input shaft splines themselves look serviceable enough however the stator splines have taken a beating. I'll need to investigate the cause of that, other than a well abused and high mileage operating environment. My thinking is that the hard 1-2 part throttle shift was always beating of these components. Some refinement in the shift logic would ease up on the part throttle harshness while maintaining the crisp 1-2 at WOT. I hope to address that this time around.





Input shaft. It's the internal spline in the torque converter (that connects to here) that stripped out.



This is the stator shaft. I need to determine what caused this damage. <br/>There are obvious pieces missing but the meat of the spline is still OK.

 

In my case (no pun), I'll be happy with my builder's results from his "case washer". As long as the outside is clean, I don't care to apply a coat of paint to it really (although I might).
Bead blasting was suggested as the way to go to get a nice clean case however I understand exactly what you're saying. I had though soda blasting would be better. Still, the case would have to be washed after blasting (if that's the route taken).

 

As a follow-up to post #9, you may want to check out this thread at ls1tech.
Well written and free of arguments and debates.


http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-...ld-thread.html

 

Thanks for the list. I've only rebuilt two transmissions so i'm probably getting in over my head with some of this. But the school of hard knocks seems to be how I learn!

 

I had thought about doing it myself too (I've got a background in auto mechanics (1st trade)) but my thinking is that someone who's been in and around these transmissions will have knowledge of the nuances and tricks. With so many changes made through the years and the addition of aftermarket parts complicates the whole rebuilding process.

 

you can drop some coin to get the good parts...
TCI makes a good stater. and ya can then have it cryo treated. just to add some life to it..

 

Yeah. The list doesn't end really.
As it stands now, the hard parts and valving are arguably good for 450 ft/lbs. Some are stronger than that, others, probably on that limit. It's hard to say as when you beef up one part, the input drum for example, it exposes the weakness in another, maybe the forward sprag.
I believe I've uncovered what happened to this trans. It wasn't so much that I was overpowering it, although based on what the OEM components were capable of handling and what I put them through, it wasn't going to last forever. It was a matter of incorrect valving. Specifically the 1-2 shift. It was always firm. Very firm. As in chirping the tires while idling away from a stop sign firm. Had I more experience with the selection of a shift kit, what parts to use from that shift kit and how to coordinate the line pressure with respect to engine load, I could have had a smooth part throttle 1-2 and a solid WOT shift. As it was, those constant hits against the drivetrain eventually worn them down to the point of failure. In this case, it was the torque converter.
Live and learn.
At some point I have to draw that line in the sand. With the exception of fine tuning the arrangement of components I've listed, namely the pressures and valving, I think this is it.

 

my transmission was built in 92 by Lingenfelter.. Was a manual / Auto 700R4.. The shift kit and other small parts held up very well.. Putting the car in drive and driving away from a red light the first the second 2nd 3rd Shift was always tripping the tires not under a heavy load under 3000 RPM.. The stator case and most the hard parts are still original and serial number to my car the stator I will take a picture of tonight would pass her brand new having looked at it a couple of weeks ago.. I beat on that transmission for over 8 years only breaking a sprag inside the transmission on one of the 10 bolt pinion gears shattered into pieces.. even with that the transmission shifted fine when driving normal.. It was only under racing conditions but the transmission told me it had a problem.. I'll get some pictures of my stator in the transmission tonight and post them and you can compare them to yours..

 

Here's a look at the turbine splines inside the converter. I can drop a gauge into the inside diameter and it measured the same as the outside of the input shaft spline. That would equal no engagement.
All those hard shifts, all the time, I think is what did it in.


There's practically nothing left of the splines.


The input shaft however survived almost unscathed.