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The TV cable auto-adjust works just fine but I would like to have the trans hold the shift points a little higher. This works great when I bring the TV cable in a 3-4 clicks but then I punch it and it all resets to "boring."
Has anyone found a workaround for this? I know I can mess with the governor, but am not really interested in that if I can work it from up top. Both devices effect the trans fluid operating pressure
I see no harm in tightening up the TV cable.
Found this thread with a guy who has a spring on the end of his TV cable. Maybe that spring can be adjusted to prevent the auto adjust from working? Mine does not have this spring, just the cable and end ball-socket.
I was also thinking about drilling additional TV cable ball mount holes and moving close to the pivot point, reducing its travel.
Last edited by Tootie Pang; 10-20-2017 at 11:47 AM.
There's this really cool new thing on this dang ol World Wide Web that allows you to search a momentous library of recorded history and knowledge. The oracle at Google can answer your questions and illuminate your desire for information, if only you choose to seek him out.
In other words, I can use Google to educate you, or you can use Google to educate yourself. I don't have all the time in the world to educate you, but I will generally take a few moments to let someone know when they're barking up the wrong tree to save them some future disappointment.
Seriously, read up on the subject, look at what the transmission builders and GM say, and make an educated decision.
Found this thread with a guy who has a spring on the end of his TV cable.
I would not trust TV cable advice from someone with a busted cruise cable, an NOS (that's Nitrous Oxide Systems) throttle relocation plate - without a nitrous plate, and a visibly kinked TV cable. It's a wonder that guy's throttle anything is working correctly.
Then I will be the guinea pig! ...and report back...
Drew really is trying to help you out here. Check out TV Made Ez website to understand what the cable does in various positions as that can help understand how this spring accomplishes what it does. And no, this spring won't harm a transmission that isn't already damaged, but it's not a band aid for other problems either. If you want improved shift points or firmness call Dana at Pro-Built Automatics and he will put you in the right direction.
Last edited by Lurbie; 10-20-2017 at 06:03 PM.
Reason: Misread post
Thanks. I've read some of that website. Lotsa detail. Putting this little spring in, if I am at all understanding TV, creates LSS, which essentially raises pressures at lower throttle positions (lower engine power) which holds gears longer and causes firmer shifts which is what I am hoping. The site says it won't hurt anything.
I think TV (engine output) works with the governor (vehicle speed related pressure control) to control op pressure in the trans.
The opposite (too long of a cable) won't bring up the pressures quick enough to handle the engine output which is bad. I will also call Dana to get the scoop.
Update: Spoke to Dana. Nice guy. He verified either the Sonnex spring or the governor light spring removal will safely do what I am trying for.
If you guys still disagree please stop me now. I've put enough money into this thing!
From the site:
Long Spring Syndrome - LSS
Idle Position W.O.T. Position
"The other incorrect TV set up condition is what we call Long Spring Syndrome (LSS). This condition exists when the TV valve is positioned in such a way as to cause TV feed fluid to be prematurely feeding into the TV feed orifice. This condition will be influencing the transmissions control circuits even though the accelerator pedal is still in its idle position. We know of four things that will normally cause the LSS "illness". First is when the vehicles accelerator pedal will not rotate the "carburetor linkage" to its full W.O.T. position and the accelerator pedal is then used during a factory "set" procedure to "set" the W.O.T. position. Second cause would be a "carburetor linkage" which causes the TV cable to return a distance shorter than required to position the TV valve at its correct starting position. Third is a TV spring that's too long which subsequently will not allow the TV valve to position correctly at the edge of the TV feed orifice. This LSS condition rarely causes damage but can result in some very frustrating behavior. LSS causes the TV valve to be positioned in such a way as to allow TV feed fluid pressure and volume to feed into the TV feed passage before the accelerator pedal is depressed at all! This condition signals for higher line pressures and instructs the up shift control circuits to start delaying the up shift timing before the accelerator pedal is even depressed at all! Common symptoms of LSS are late hard up shifts compared to the accelerator pedal position during light to medium throttle driving situations. Late hard shifts during light throttle driving situations gets very old in a hurry. Downshifting may occur too early and can sometimes causes "shuttling" between overdrive (4th) and 3rd gears. The transmission may produce double down shifts at inappropriate times, of example, it shifts from overdrive (4th) down to second gear (2nd) gear when a shift into third (3rd) would have been far more appropriate.
If your transmission has an LSS condition but passes the following drive test (click on the link below) and you are happy with its overall behavior, you should probably leave it alone!"
Last edited by Tootie Pang; 10-20-2017 at 07:15 PM.
There's this really cool new thing on this dang ol World Wide Web that allows you to search a momentous library of recorded history and knowledge. The oracle at Google can answer your questions and illuminate your desire for information, if only you choose to seek him out.
In other words, I can use Google to educate you, or you can use Google to educate yourself. I don't have all the time in the world to educate you, but I will generally take a few moments to let someone know when they're barking up the wrong tree to save them some future disappointment.
Seriously, read up on the subject, look at what the transmission builders and GM say, and make an educated decision.
Hell, then why even have a discussion forum at all? I think thirdgen.org should just redirect you to Google!
Because there are plenty of topics that haven't already been extensively explained by industry professionals. Sometimes a person might read everything they can find, and want to discuss the topic further. But when it's fairly obvious someone hasn't looked at the copious quantities of information available, sometimes it's appropriate to direct them to a search.
It's personal responsibility to at least TRY to help yourself, before asking someone else for help.
Because there are plenty of topics that haven't already been extensively explained by industry professionals. Sometimes a person might read everything they can find, and want to discuss the topic further. But when it's fairly obvious someone hasn't looked at the copious quantities of information available, sometimes it's appropriate to direct them to a search.
It's personal responsibility to at least TRY to help yourself, before asking someone else for help.
I searched, and always do search first. I had also read the majority of the TV Made EZ 101 stuff before my post.
I do not feel the TV system is a yes or no topic. It's a bit more sophisticated than that.
Sometimes the best search terms to bring the most useful threads, of bazillions out there, up to the top, are elusive and sometimes take time and advice to find.
So to wrap up this thread,
From what I have learned -
1. Having a TV cable adjusted a little to "short" will not hurt the transmission- just give firmer shifts at lighter throttle and hold upshifts longer however the auto-adjusting device at the engine end of the cable will not allow the cable to remain this way and will reset the cable length to OEM spec after a WOT.
2. Having a TV cable too long will not allow the trans to build line pressure to handle engine output, cause slipping, and therefore heat, and therefore failure.
So it depends on which way one attempts to manipulate the TV cable.
There is a lot of discussion (and sanction) on removing the lighter governor spring. This is to achieve a similar effect as 1.
I appreciate your expertise and opinion, but in this case, there are credible sources- TV Made Ez, Pro-Built, and Sonnax, who do not advise against it. I have ordered one spring and bushing kit, will be messing with it, and will report back, good or bad.
Based on what I have learned, my expectation is that nothing harmful will happen adjusting the TV in this "direction" and I will get a nicely shifting TH700R.
Last edited by Tootie Pang; 10-23-2017 at 04:41 PM.
If you'd researched as much as you claim, you might have noticed the part you're talking about is intended to correct a geometry issue. Considering that it's not something that gets posted several times a month as a "must do" modification, I find it hard to believe that thirdgens would have a OEM geometry issue. Now if you had a 700R4 you were putting behind a 1974 400 in your 1936 Ford, with God knows what carburetor, cables, brackets, etc then things might be substantially different.
What you're attempting to do is use a $5 gizmo as a band-aid to correct a symptom most likely caused by something else.
Setting the TV cable is a polar yes/no. It's either set right, or it's set wrong. If the transmission isn't working with the cable set right, something else is wrong. It's just that simple.
I'm sorry you didn't like the suggestion to take advantage of all the resources available to educate yourself before doing something potentially harmful. By all means, trust your best judgement.
My powertrain runs fine. I never said it had a problem.
I wanted to find a device, if it existed, to help counteract the self adjuster so that I could keep my TV cable tweaked up a bit. That's the title of this thread.
Last edited by Tootie Pang; 10-23-2017 at 05:03 PM.
When a auto manufacture, in this case GM, designed an auto transmission, they designed it to shift soft so that the public wouldn't notice the shift because of comfort. Some people think a Transmission that shift's "smooth" is a good working transmission, and in most cases is, like a daily driver that you don't want slamming you every time it shifts. But the fact of the matter is, the more you can up the line pressure, the better it is for the clamping power of the clutches, (less slipping). By increasing the line pressure, you will increase the "feel" of the shift. Performance built transmissions build high line pressure for superior clamping pressure on the band and clutches. Another product is transmission shift kits. These change line pressure and shift points also. The Sonnax spring kit just compensates for any misalignment and keeps the cable in the correct adjustment. I just put a Sonnax spring kit on my son in law's 1984 chev pick up that came from factory with a 700r4 and a quadrajet carb, and it woke the tranny up. These cars are getting old and cables and carbs and trottle bodies wear. The kit brings back and increases the correct line pressure thus allowing the transmission to keep performing. I'm not sure i worded all this so that people can understand what i said, but the point is, the kit works. My girlfriend has one on her 90 Vette also. I had one, but don't need one anymore because i have a Probuilt Automatics Street/Strip rebuild kit with a Transgo shift kit and a Boss Hog converter. My shift points are up higher and i'm running about 240 PSI at WOT! (If my Auto meter gauge is correct)
Yep. Low pressure = band slipping = heat = transmission death. Tightening the TV cable relative to the throw of the throttle arm increases trans fluid pressure more quickly than OEM for engine output.
I disagree with the "polar yes/no" some feel is the only way to setup a TV cable-valve system
No for a more slack cable since that will cause lower than OEM pressures relative to engine output and likely transmission slippage/heat.
But Ok for a tighter cable since that simply raises the trans fluid pressure (vs OEM) relative to the engine output. The trans thinks the engine is putting out more power than it actually is (engine is under more load than it actually is) and it holds gears longer, hits the bands harder, etc which shouldn't hurt anything.
The Sonnex device simply allows someone to run a tighter cable without the auto-adjuster kicking them back down to OEM after WOT.
Last edited by Tootie Pang; 10-24-2017 at 09:03 PM.
Yep. Low pressure = band slipping = heat = transmission death. Tightening the TV cable relative to the throw of the throttle arm increases trans fluid pressure more quickly than OEM for engine output.
I disagree with the "polar yes/no" some feel is the only way to setup a TV cable-valve system
No for a more slack cable since that will cause lower than OEM pressures relative to engine output and likely transmission slippage/heat.
But Ok for a tighter cable since that simply raises the trans fluid pressure (vs OEM) relative to the engine output. The trans thinks the engine is putting out more power than it actually is (engine is under more load than it actually is) and it holds gears longer, hits the bands harder, etc which shouldn't hurt anything.
The Sonnex device simply allows someone to run a tighter cable without the auto-adjuster kicking them back down to OEM after WOT.
And that my friend is correct. It works, and is 100% not going to hurt the transmission. In fact it's better than factory. Sometimes people get in the mindset that, "if the factory made it that way, that's as good as it gets". Well, that's true to a certain extent, but if it wasn't for people looking to improve factory parts, we wouldn't be where we are with all the performance parts we have.
So I installed the device easily. What an improvement in the sporty feel of the car. Exactly what I wanted. All it does is pull the TV cable more at first, then by full throttle, it's the same as stock. You set the TV auto adjust the same way. More sporty upshifting and downshifting but still comfortable. Nice.
Not at the moment. My engine is a stock LB9- probably don't need the extra clamping power. The 1-2 shift was brutally harsh. Even before the Sonnex spring it was too hard.
So now I'm curious. If you don't have a shift kit in the trans, and it was shifting "(1-2 shift was brutally harsh. Even before the Sonnex spring it was too hard.)" Why would you want to add the Sonnax Spring, and apply even more line pressure? On Post #12, you stated you wanted firmer shifts, and on post #18 you said your drive train works fine and you never had a problem. Now you say it was too hard shifting before the Sonnax spring??
I wanted to add the Sonnax to hold the upshifts longer so the car felt more sporty.
With stock TV, anything less than half pedal and the trans would shift really lazy (keep RPMs below 2000). I could never hear the engine rev up unless I went heavy or I manually shifted.Yes, but only when cold, and to me it was barely tolerable.
I do not knowingly have a shift kit in the trans (I didn't put one in and it doesn't act like there is one when in stock config - but got the car used)
And correct, drive train does not have problems.
Once I put the Sonnax in, that and the vette servo were too much, especially when cold. Stock servo and full Sonnax spring was even too much cold. Cut the spring down and it's perfect.
Last edited by Tootie Pang; 11-07-2017 at 12:04 PM.
Shifting cold will make it feel firmer, the question is, how does it work when warmed up? If you had a shift kit, it would probably shift harder even when warm depending on how the kit was set up. You really shouldn't base you shifting on a cold transmission. They will run between 180-200 degrees on a stock tranny. A performance built should be running 150-180 degrees with a cooler. Just like a engine, you really shouldn't be hammering on the drive train till it get's warmed up.
I agree but anything barely above idle on the throttle when cold with the spring and vette servo and wham it hits way too hard. It's setup nicely right now.
Not at the moment. My engine is a stock LB9- probably don't need the extra clamping power. The 1-2 shift was brutally harsh. Even before the Sonnex spring it was too hard.
Good possibility the 2nd accumulator spring is broken. Common failure.
10-20-2017, 11:40 AM
