I’m looking at a complete T5 swap, it has a 26 spline input shaft and these casting numbers on it. I believe it is a 1990 V8 T5, but before I commit, can someone confirm? I’ve seen that 93 and up T5’s can be confused for an older V8 unit because they have a 26 spline input shaft as well. Thanks guys, I’m really looking forward to manual swapping my Trans Am.

 

The 82-92 v6 cars have a weird 14(?)spline input. If it has 26 splines you should be good as long as it's from an f body and has the typical gm 4 speed bolt pattern.

 

I just know that the 93-02 V6 has a longer but also 26 spline input shaft and isn’t compatible. I am trading a C4 Corvette while for the entire swap. Only problem is the guy doesn’t know what the swap originally came from. It came with (but not installed) an 85 Z28 he bought. He wants an automatic (unbelievable, I know) for some reason.

 

Can you post pics of the trans. The front bolt pattern/input and a side view.

 

That’s the only other photo I have of it

 

That looks like an 84-92 t5 from an f body. If it has 26 splines you're all set.

why does it come w 2 bellhousings? Is one just a spare or is one cracked?

 

He says he’s got spare bell housing, clutch master and slave and two pedal sets. Even has a flywheel and clutch, not that I’d use them.

 

Cool, I'd have no issues w using the flywheel if it's in good shape and can be resurfaced. A new clutch/release bearing and a resurface should do. I'd be hesitant to instal used hydros, but that's in part to the fact that I hate crawling under the dash and dealing with the pedals and firewall associated stuff.

sounds like a pretty complete setup.

 

I’m not opposed to using the flywheel, I’m just not sure it is going to work with the one piece rear main seal my 86 has. Assuming it is in fact from a 1990, it could be that it will. I meant more so the used clutch and hydraulic parts that I wouldn’t really use

 

When I swapped my car to a stick I was a kid. I pulled the flywheel/clutch from the donor car and just tossed it in. Then when I swapped in a 350hp/400tq 350 3 yrs later, I bought a new fly wheel and reused the clutch. It all worked fine and was stock parts. I'd never recommend doing that but it all worked well for years. I'm well aware it was a lame way to go but I was on a pretty minimal budget then. The swap is pretty simple. Totally worth the time. And for what it's worth, I had a 450 hp engine hooked to a t5 for a little while. It held up fine. I think those trans have a bad rap. I mean, I didn't abuse the hell out of it but I wasn't nice to it by any means.

 

I normally would like to go by this tag if it's available from the seller...
https://lugnutz65chevystepside.weebl...1390267535.jpg
...and cross reference it to this site...
http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Bo...T5-ID-Tags.htm

 

Nothing about his classified ad here makes me doubt his listing. The V8 third gen bellhousing (your post #5) tells you it's GM "Muncie" 4 bolt pattern.

 

Yup, definitely a V8 F-body T-5, by the bell housing if nothing else.

Photos of the casting numbers for the various castings aren't all that helpful. Those don't tell what gear ratios it has for example. Specifically, whether they're the L69 & LB9 ones, or the LG4 & L03 ones.

There was a little stick-on tag with a bar code that had the number that would tell that. With that blue crap squirted all over it, I'm guessing that's probably gone.

It would also be nice to know whether it's 1st design (87-back or so) or 2nd design (88-up). I might have the exact years wrong butt it's something like that. Look at the front of the case: it's visible enough without taking the bell housing off. Casting #s would tell that since the case is different, butt I don't know them offhand and I'm too lazy to get up and dig one out of my scrap metal heap and look.



1st design on top, 2nd below it.

Sorry, I can't bring myself to type that stuuupid PIT team TQM 6-sigma 4-ups-chart KPIs 80s BUZZWORD that Doug Nash's summer marketing intern evidently thought was mature and elite sounding, and so now everybody applies that nauseating bit of clueless corporate mealymouth to it.

 

Here are some more pictures he sent me. He says it was rebuilt at some point, guess that would explain the blue crap all over it, but anyway.

 

Can't see the part of the case that's different in those shots either.

It's below the BH, viewed from straight in front and below the BH. Kinda up from underneath like you'd see it in the car. You're looking for the front of the case where the bottom of it peeks out below the BH. Look at my photos and get shots that show those parts.

 

I have a t-5 that I always thought was a 1st pattern, but it looks like the second pattern from Sofa's pictures above.

It has a 1985 casting date and the tag indicates 1985.
14084168 1352-072 1985 5.0 V8 2.95/.63

 

I don't think it matters much as to what style it is vs its condition. I'd be more concerned w how it shifted, the miles on it since rebuild and how much power was thrown at it. I assume you are not putting a ton of power to it your planning on using a t5 in the first place(?). As far as fluid, what was used in it? Any "glitter" in the fluid?

 

Because I'm a disabled vet, and have nerve and bone damage in my left leg (right leg too, but more so on the left). Which makes using a clutch pedal questionable at best, painful, and not enjoyable at all.

As to why there's additional parts - the guy I got this project from had also scavenged parts from a 1991 RS. I've got an extra bumper, manual windows, a 91 dash, and a variety of other odds and ends...I presume that's where the extra bellhousing/clutch fork came from.

Also, my swap does not come with the clutch. Just the flywheel. And only one pedal set.

And finally, sorry about the blue. Not my doing. I woulda left it bare silver.

 

Wild:

That's 1st design.

The difference is the front countergear bearing; the thing that looks, in yours, like an upside-down freeze plug. EXACTLY like a freeze plug to the eye, completely smooth with no printing or anything, and with the "corners" rolled over and everything, except that there's a little "crease" usually visible all the way around it, maybe .060" from the outermost edge. It's bright shiny metal, almost polished looking. It presses into the case from the front and is supposed to fit tight, like .0015" interference or something, with no other form of retention. The factory was so sure that would work, there's not even any seal. It's a straight roller design that rides directly on the countergear, like axles ride on their bearings. In fact the rear countergear bearing IS THE SAME PART # as a 10-bolt axle bearing. In that design, much like old 4-speeds and such, the countergear is free in the case, with end play and thrust washers at the ends. That front bearing in the T-5 can't go any farther into the case because the counbtergear and its thrust washers are there, and it can't come out very much toward the front because the clutch gear bearing retainer overlaps it. Kinda like a C-clip rear axle; there's nothing "holding it together" as such, it just, can't quite fall apart.

The 2nd design is completely different. It uses tapered rollers, with preload. In that design, the front bearing goes in from behind, and fits loose (well, not an interference fit, anyway; it installs by hand) It has an O-ring to seal it, and a snap ring on the inside. The rear bearing is also a tapered roller. There's a retainer for the rear one, with 4 bolts that hold it in the case. There are selective-fit shims at the rear, under the retainer, to set the preload. The front bearing has sharp "corners" at the front where you can see it, has a dull matte gray finish, and is sort of depressed-looking in the center, maybe .015" or so deep, with a "rim" about 3/16" wide or so around the edge. It has the part number stamped around the edge.

The way the 1st design usually fails is, the case "stretches" across the front, where it's narrowest and weeeeekest, namely the most important spots, around that bearing and between it and the clutch gear. That makes the bearing hole oval. When that happens it loses its press fit, and can spin in the case. Then, since it's no longer tight in the case, all the fluid leeeeeks out. Worse, (or maybe not?) the bearing moving outward from the clutch gear, allows the clutch gear and countergear teeth to misalign, which (a) wears both sets of teeth HORRIBLY, and (b) (worse for sure!) causes greater side loading on the countergear, trying to push it outwards from the clutch gear. The high side load stretches the case some more, which misaligns the teeth some more AND lets the oil leeeeeeek out even faster, both of which wear the teeth even more, which increases the side load, which stretches the case some more, which ... I'm sure you can see where this is going. Commonly called "circling the drain". Your transmission is already in that doom loop: you can see the witness mark on the countergear bearing where it's been rubbing up against the back of the clutch gear bearing retainer (big round thing held in by 4 bolts) as it spins, which has left that strange circular pattern around the edge of it about ¼" in from the edge. In mine in the photo, it was SO bad, I had to add fluid every few hundred miles, until I finally got a 2nd design. Then later, put in a T-56, which is ALTOGETHER SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY IMAGINABLE. I am SO GLAD to be free of crappy T-5s.

The 2nd design is MUCH improved over the 1st, not least because it actually has a seal of some sort on that bearing to keep it from running dry so easily, butt still not up to the task of handling even a 305. It's still just a T-5; basically a gas mileage piece, NOT a "performance" or "heavy duty" one.

As far as "condition", there's NO SUCH THING as a 1st design "in good condition", unless right straight off the factory floor. Behind a V8 the destruction starts IMMEDIATELY. It's nearly impossible to drive one gently enough to preserve it fully.

 

Ok, guess mine is not even worth trying to sell then.
Thanks.

 

All sofas info is cool but I've seen and had a few early t5s that held up pretty well. The one I have in my garage held up really well behind some good power. I replaced it w a t56 a few years ago. There was nothing wrong w it. So there are early ones that last and condition does matter. As sofa clearly states, there are some in poor condition. No one wants one of his condition doesn't matter ones!! There's no question about the design differences between the two and the advantage of the newer design. That said if you're gonna beat it up w a lot of power get a t56 or a TKX. A good condition T5 w cautious abuse should last. This looks like a good way to do a swap.

To the seller of the trans, good for you keeping in the game and continuing to enjoy these cars despite injuries.

And no one cares about the color! It could be pink w purple polka dots. As long as it works well whatever!

 

Yeah I have nothing against the color, as such, other than it's ugly and inappropriate generally; mostly, that it clearly indicates that somebody has been messing with it some way or other, and that it has destroyed what little, and fragile, and uncertain (it's stuck to a piece that can be bolted up to ANY somewhat similar transmission, whether the sticker is "correct" for that transmission or not) identity info the trans might otherwise have had. Kinda like it would be, if your car's ONLY copy of its VIN was stenciled on a wheel, and somebody painted over it. Just yet ANOTHER element of shoddy design and industrial practice associated with that steaming POS.

My advice to the PO: having been through AT LEAST a dozen 1st design T-5s before alternatives became available, all with THE SAME inevitable cascading failure and some of them (well, most, actually) WELL ON THEIR WAY to total destruction before they ever got to me, is to tread VERY CAREFULLY in this matter. You're doing the right thing by coming in here and asking BEFORE buying, not what we see so often, "I just bought this [thing that turns out to be a complete dud], I got a great deal didn't I?". We're telling you what to look at, what it looks like, what the parts do, how they go bad and are bad in the first place, and why you need to be concerned about these details. Not sugarcoating or cheerleading. (well, some of us, anyway) Laying out a tall stack of green on something is NOT FUN ANYMORE when you get it home, put it in your car, and discover it's WORTHLESS. Which is all too easy to have happen with a T-5, ESPECIALLY the 1st design. BTDTGTTS.

 

I appreciate that! I was thinking about calling it quits on projects, last year, but I just enjoy wrenching on things too much to hang up the hat.

No problemo!

And I agree with your later comment about not sugarcoating, etc. I only have what I have. If someone more informed/educated comes along and tells me that I have misrepresented something, or have the wrong info in my ad - I'll correct it. The info I got from the previous owner was a bit spotty, and transmission identification is definitely not my strong point. So I've just taken pictures of all the casting codes I can find, whatever angles are requested, and added in more info as I learn it.

 

That's 2nd design. So in that regard, off to a much better start than the alternative.

Looks like the car it was in before had a long-term coolant leak on the back of the motor somewhere. MANY years' worth it would appear.

As far as "condition" of course, that doesn't necessarily show up in a photo. If I were the guessing kind though, and some of that came from a 91 RS, then that's the most likely place the transmission came from as well. As my signature says. So probably the same gears as Wild's up there; 2.95 1st, .63 5th. The better gears were the same 1st - 4th, but .73 5th. The .63, I had one once in my L69 car, for a little while, until the next chance I had to swap the original gear back in; felt like it needed a 4½th gear most of the time. Just too much of a drop from 4th to 5th.

 

And regarding Fire's comment about the "glitter":

That's a VERY GOOD point. One of the best indicators of "condition" overall, as well as the skill level of previous drivers.

The biggest and most common source of "glitter" in the fluid is n00bz jamming it into reverse, which is not synchronized, without putting it into a forward, synchronized, gear FIRST. I learned how to drive a stick shift on one that neither 1st nor reverse was synchronized (50s car); NOT ONLY did I learn how to double-clutch to get it into first smoothly at speed, BUTT ALSO how NOT to make it grind itself to a pulp every time I went to put it into those 2 gears at a stop. The deal is, if the engine is running, even with the car sitting still, and you just push in the clutch, all the transmission guts, along with the clutch disc, are STILL spinning at engine speed, until they coast to a stop, which can take 10 or 15 seconds sometimes. Thus, if you try to put a T-5 into reverse that way, you either have to put it into a synchronized (forward) gear FIRST, OR, wait for the whole thing to come to a COMPLETE stop. Otherwise you get that horrible gnashing grinding sound, and while it's making that sound, it's SHREDDING the teeth off of the reverse gears, turning them into metal chips aka "glitter". That "glitter" then, which is HARDENED STEEL, proceeds to EAT everything else inside the transmission, because now the fluid is filled with it and all that other stuff is bathed in it. (there's no filter in a manual transmission, after all) Bearings, gears, synchronizers, EVERYTHING. Needless to say, a transmission that has suffered that kind of abuse, is NOWHERE NEAR as "valuable" as one that hasn't. Gears and bearings also produce "glitter" when they wear, butt that's not near as common overall, although of course, if those things are the source, it indicates a serious internal failure, not merely driver head space.

 

Awesome, thanks guys. The seller is a straight shooter and i appreciate that. I just wanted to confirm it was an eight cylinder trans and you guys have eased my mind in that regard. I’m just running a mostly stock LG4 with a small cam and exhaust. I think the T5 is more than capable of holding what little power it makes. What should I use to get the Speedo to work with my 2.77 BW rear? I thought the speedometer in my car was electric, but I don’t see a VSS for a manual transmission available.

 

Electric vss for the manuals in these cars are not available and haven't been for years.

For my '89 Trans Am I was running one of these
https://jagsthatrun.com/products/speed-sensor-4pac

and one of these speedo gear things
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134008947878

 

Indeed. That older gear-driven VSS hasn't been available for A LONG time.

There are 2 styles. Seems like, one has the connector kinda centered on the "bullet", and one it's more off to the side. Don't hold me to this, butt I think you need the off-to-the-side one. The Firebird people may be able to come up with better info. I'm a Camaro person, not Firebird, so my knowledge on that is somewhat limited. Firebird went to electronic speedo in 85 while Camaro was cable-driven until about 89. No idea why they did that. I think the one you need looks like this, the one on the left. This pic was out of one of my T-5 junk buckets from YEARS AND YEARS ago, maybe 20 - 25 years ago or so. No idea whether I still have it butt probably not.



Use the one that's in your car now. If you don't have one, you'll just have to wait until one appears somewhere. They're pretty thin on the ground, you may be waiting for awhile. Same for the gears you'll need, butt with that gear, which is one of the more common, your odds are good that ones you come across are more likely to be that one than they are to be for say 3.70 rear gears. I think the gear combo you need is 12 on the drive gear and 19 on the driven butt again don't hold me to that. Whatever it is, you need to get from about 747 revs of the wheels per mile to 1000 revs of the VSS per mile with the rear axle drive ratio of 36 ÷ 13, in a gear combo they actually made. What I mean by that is, keeping in mind that the gears are matched to each other in the sense that a 19-tooth driven for going with a 9-tooth drive (3.42 speedo gear combo) is not the same as a 19-tooth driven for a 12-tooth drive, because the angles the teeth are cut at were different.

 

The 700R4 VSS won't fit.

 

Not to talk you out of it, but I wanted to summarize my experience with T5's.
Get a TKX or T56 instead. I've blown up three T5s with a mild 350 build and I wasn't driving like a bhole.

 

The op is converting to a manual. While I do agree the THX/T56 is the move(I have a magnum f). The op has a pretty stock car and is getting a pretty complete setup that is pretty much bolt in. When I swapped my car to a manual I did the same thing. I got a complete setup from a donor. Then later did a t56. It is much more expensive to get a TKX or T56 into one of these cars than what the Op will have into this setup. With either the t56/TKX you need a bellhousing and proper hydros. A custom driveshaft and aftermarket crossmember and likely matching torque arm. Unless the OP can source an lt1 t56 out of an f body there's a lot of expense getting it all in there. The f body t56s are all old at this point and likely need a rebuild. I'm all about my magnum f/dual disk setup. But all in all it was a hell of a lot more money than my t5 swap. Not to mention the homework it takes to get all the parts that will work well. Getting an LS magnum f into a sbc 3rd gen wasn't cheap and requires quite a bit of problem solving. The T5 is the move now. When the OP does a 650 hp LS swap a t56 can go behind that!

 

The WHOLE context has to be considered, and I think here, in this case, the OP has a good chance of getting a stick shift car, going on the road for little $$. Like Firechicken, I did the swap from auto to stick w/all OE, 1st gen T5 parts...and it broke after some beatage. BUT it cost squat and got me going into a stick shift "platform". Later upgraded to a T56, then back to a WC T5. Each worked well for years.

My 'Vette, you can get $300 wheel bearings for it. You can get $28 RA wheel bearings for it. I have tried both and I've settled on the $28 wheel bearing. Why? B/c when it fails, for $28 I can't be disappointed in the life, and the R&R is pretty easy. Such is the case w/the T5. If I threw one in a car for <$500, and it blows....who GAF? Not me; another $200-$500 spare is cheap...and my god, you can have a T5 on the garage floor in 20 minutes. So....the cheap route, when you are aware of the risks, CAN be the preferred route.
To ^that^ end, I'm pulling the ZF6 out of the Kart and putting in a T5 in that space. Why? ~100lbs less weight, and I'm not worried about $200 T5's blowing up. The car has no traction, and if it does break....who cares? Not me.

 

Maybe I'm old or a ***** but the $3k I spent on the TKX knowing that I probably won't have to spend an afternoon on a cold concrete floor again was worth every penny.

 

Sorry. I forgot he wasn't starting out with a T-5.

But yeah, that's exactly right. The 700 one definitely won't work in a T-5. Completely different.

 

Considering my LG4 has 101k miles on it and is mostly stock and ran 16.3 at New England dragway with 2.77 gears and a 700R4, I don’t think I need a TKX trans. If I was going with a T56, I’d drop in a nicely modded gen 2 LT1 with it. I am not looking for huge power or the fastest car out there. Just a weekend cruiser that I can have fun with. Here is the car Im working with.

 

That's a really nice car.


gonna be even nicer w a 3rd pedal and a stick!

 

Agreed.

Don't let us clowns and our side banter distract you OP. Everyone has different needs and wants out of these cars and sometimes we lose sight of that.

 

IDK...to each their own. For ME, part of the hobby of owning and working on car-guy projects is....the working on car-guy projects, part. I enjoy it.

 

I feel the same as far as not wanting to pull my trans, engine rear out ever again. When I do stuff now it's not whether or not it's coming out again. It's whether or not this is the last time laying on the ground. I want a lift so bad. I'm putting a blower on a really strong engine, how long till I have to pull the engine after this 1k miles, 20k miles who knows? I feel like there's never a last time.

except pulling the damn tank, F that thing!

 

I just don't want to be in a situation where I paid hundreds of dollars to have my cars hauled 4 hours away to the track, paying for the track rental for the day and end up with a broken transmission.

 

Ah! Well that is VERY different than what you said above about concrete floors! I agree; I wouldn't want that either. I wouldn't probably even go to a track that's 4 hours away. "Not worth it".

Keep in mind though; that could happen (breakage at a track) regardless of what transmission you pay for. It's a risk...part of the hobby if you track your car.

 

Unfortunately there isn't a track closer than 4 hours from me.

Sure, breaking something is possible, I've blown engines and crashed motorcycles at this track. I'm still not going to put in old, weak, probably worn out parts knowing I'm going to be running it hard all day.

 

Copy that. I will.

4 hours to a track sucks. Sorry to hear that. We're in the same boat, here. RMR closed years ago, so it's Boise or 'Vegas for a real 1/4 mile track. Not worth it.

 

How many people have suggested a rear gear change to go with the T5?

 

I though it but kept it to myself!

the poor OP asked a simple question and we all got crazy! Now we can debate the ideal ratio and proper carrier/traction adder!!!!

3.73 w a tight posi!!!!!

it would decrease the mechanical leverage on the trans and help it live a longer and happier life.

sorry, I'll shut up now!

 

There used to be a company owned by the Tite brothers, that sold posi carriers. This was back in the 70s. Probably Eaton units that they had found some stiffer springs for or something, and got real good at setting up and all that; I don't recall the details, butt they did have a good marketplace reputation, FWIW. Anyway, they called their "posi" product by a name that more closely resembled a certain coarse slang word for female external reproductive organs. Their slogan was something like "Nothing feels as good as a Tite [product]".

Ah those were the daze...

 

It’s got a BW 9 bolt with 2.77 posi. I just plan to dump a set of 3.45s in it at some point. Again, I’m not looking for anything crazy. If I can eventually get the 305 to turn mid 14s, that’s really enough for me. I’m not one of those guys that just focuses on 7 billion horsepower and all that. The car has a hair over 100k miles on it and it was mostly original when I bought it this past summer. I’ve been doing all the deferred maintenance and some upgrades to make it fun. It’s my first third gen since I sold my 86 5 speed Trans Am back in 2016. I’ve owned all kinds of stuff since then, a lot of it a lot more powerful than any third gen GM ever could have imagined, but this past summer I just got the urge to go back to a third gen. If I wanted a fast car I’d just buy a newer Mustang 5.0 again.

 

That's probably the best all around gear ratio. I had a friend w an 84 lg4 that went from 3.23s to 3.73s it was a lot of fun back in the day. I also drove a 83ho w 3.73s. It was pretty quick. Both cars were 5 speed cars. 3.73 is totally the lowest I would go w a t5. 3.45s should be pretty perfect. Sounds like it's gonna be a great setup all around.

 

Gearing isn't about 7 billion horsepower.

Drivability matters. If your current trans. is good, prioritize a gear change. That will better match the T5. The 2.77 will not.

 

That's going to require a lot of clutch slipping to get going in 1st gear. That's a 7.39:1 total gear ratio. Should be closer to 10.