1987 IROC Z, LS427/570 crate motor, Tremec T56 Magnum F, UMI Road Race K member and LS engine swap brackets.


After removing the GM installed large pilot bearing, I purchased and installed an ACDelco Pilot Bearings and Bushings 14061685 into the back of the crankshaft. I also installed a Tilton 55-1004 Twin Disc Clutch Kit, Chevy LS, T56, Organic while using the plastic, clutch installation tool.

I've spent about 6 hours total fighting with this thing. My wife has been a real trooper and she's spent about 3 hours helping me. The transmission just wont go the last 3/4". That's probably the front of the transmission's input shaft that goes into the pilot bearing.

Yesterday, after battling with it for 3-4 hours, I removed the transmission from the back of the engine and confirmed that the alignment tool does slide into the clutch disc splines and into the pilot bearing. I used my dial caliper to measure the pilot bearing end of input shaft (about .590") of the transmission as well as the pilot bearing end of the plastic alignment tool just to see if they were close. According to the link posted above for the AC Delco pilot bearing, the ID of the bearing is .594". Maybe this is too tight? The plastic tool was about .020" smaller in diameter and it slips in easily all the way.

Today, I got a fresh start and with my wife's help, we got the transmission part way back into the clutch. There is about a 3/4" gap between the transmission and the back of the bellhousing.


I'm using long bolts to make sure the transmission is lined up with the engine/bellhousing. I AM NOT trying to pull the transmission to the engine with these bolts! They're only there for support and alignment!




I put a breaker bar and socket on the front crankshaft bolt and turned the engine slightly hoping that the transmission would go the rest of the way in. No luck.

I looked into the clutch area and noticed the slave cylinder touching the fingers of the pressure plate. I thought that maybe there was some air pressure keeping the slave from compressing backward. I used a long screwdriver and was easily able to move the slave cylinder aft.



At this point (6 hours over two days), I still can't get the transmission stabbed all the way. I've stabbed maybe 10 manual transmissions in my lifetime and this is the first time that I wasn't successful. All the others were a piece of cake compared to this combo.

I'm thinking that there is something wrong with the pilot bearing. However, the plastic clutch alignment tool goes in just fine. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can try or what I should check?

 

Im a few beers in and without reading your whole message, do you have the bleeder screw open when trying to install?

 

That was one of the things that came to mind late in the day. I opened the bleeder screw at the end of the 4' long steel braided hose. I then used a screwdriver on the slave cylinder and I was easily able to move the slave backward and compress the spring.

 

Put the correct bolts in and tighten them down against the transmission, FINGER TIGHT ONLY. Have your assistant push the clutch while you wiggle the transmission around. As it tries to go in, tighten the bolts, one at a time, to the extent that the transmission allows, FINGER TIGHT ONLY.

 

Awesome recommendation, sofa! I was looking for something to try before I remove the transmission from under the car and pull the engine back out of the engine bay.

Right now, the Tick Performance Adjustable Clutch Master Cylinder Kit for 1998-02 Camaro & Firebird LS1 is bolted to the firewall and the clutch/brake pedals are in place. However, the clutch MC rod is not connected and there is no hydraulic fluid in the clutch system. When work allows, I'll hook things up, add brake fluid to the clutch system and then bleed it.

It's probably going to be the end of this coming week before I'm going to have a chance to work on it again but I feel that this recommendation may result in success!

 

It can also help to align the clutch with an old input shaft instead of a plastic tool. The plastic tools are sloppy.

 

this^^
I had a very similar issue where I thought I installed the clutch correctly and the plastic tool went in but the transmission (T5) wouldn’t go slide in all the way in. I used an input shaft I had to find out I didn’t install the clutch correctly. Once that was taken care of the transmission slid is easily.

 

I remember reading a few years ago where people have suggested using a real, metal input shaft instead of the plastic alignment tools. I've never had a problem.......until now. I guess I need to start looking for an input shaft to properly align this clutch.

 

Maybe this: GM T56 26-spline Steel Clutch Alignment Shaft ?

 

I used a steel alignment tool. Much better than the plastic. My trans slid right in and that was w a dual disk.

 

Thank you for posting your experience. Did you use an old transmission input shaft or a steel alignment tool like what I linked in post #9?

 

Reason for operating the clutch while doing this is, the disc is then free to go wherever it wants to. That way, doesn't matter if it's aligned perfectly or not, because it'll just follow the clutch gear around wherever it wants to go whenever it meets up with the pilot bearing. By wiggling the transmission around, you move the tip of the gear around, such that it'll eventually find its way into the bearing.

Ya gotta get the clutch operational sooner or later. Do it sooner. Then finishing the transmission stabment should be a piece o cake, WITHOUT having to remove it and dink with an alignment tool, as long as you have the right pilot bearing.

 

I used something like that. It worked awesome.

I thought about having someone try and actuate the clutch. I imagine that would work w stock hydros in these cars or a mechanical clutch. But the release bearing that's mounted on the Ls trans would just push the trans away from the clutch. The release bearing is mounted on the front bearing retainer and pushed on the clutch diaphragm fingers. I guess if you had some bolts in partially it may work. But if you over traveled the release bearing then you'd have hydro fluid all over your fancy new clutch. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong though.

 

sofa, I have this pilot bearing and I’m pretty sure it’s the correct one: ACDelco Pilot Bearings and Bushings 14061685

 

Firechicken, thank you for confirming that you used an alignment tool sumilar to the link that I posted.

You’ve got me thinking about actuating the hydraulic clutch without the transmission mounted all the way against the bellhousing. The hydraulic slave is going to push against the pressure plate fingers and it’ll try to force the transmission aft. There is no way that I’ll be able to muscle the transmission forward while the clutch pedal is depressed.

While the clutch pedal is depressed, my bolts will keep the transmission from moving aft. While the clutch pedal is depressed, maybe I can jiggle the transmission to try to slightly move the twin clutch discs. Then I’ll have my wife let out on the clutch pedal and hopefully everything will be lined up and the transmission will go in.

I’m now worried about overextending the slave cylinder and blowing hydraulic fluid over everything.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is if the release bearing is really full of fluid and extended, as you advance the trans it will compress the release bearing. That fluid will need to go somewhere. It will likely come out the reservoir and you'll be right under it pushing the trans in. Just think about pushing brake pads in calipers w a full master.

 

While you said that you replaced the large pilot bearing (Corvette) with a pilot bushing (Camaro), but did you verify that the bushing is installed all of the way in. There is a two step flange in the rear of the crankshaft, one for the large bearing and a second deeper hole for the smaller bushing/bearing. The bushing should be flush with the second step or the spline taper will bottom on the end of the bushing, same as if the large bearing is installed.

 

If you just stab the tool holding the clutch the clutch will hang low which is why I found holding the tool in straight with one hand while tightening a few PP bolts enough to hold the PP in place then run my fingers around the edge to feel for any variance and looking has proved to me works. Then I tighten the rest to TQ leaving the tool in.

 

Firechicken, I hadn't thought about this so thank you for this reminder.

 

This is something that I'm not sure about. I ***thought*** that I had the new AC Delco pilot bearing installed correctly but at this point, I certainly wouldn't bet my life on it!

This coming weekend, I'm going to try some of the suggestions posted on this thread to see if I can get the transmission to go in the last 3/4". If all the suggestions fail, then I'll remove the transmission from under the car. I can then insert my plastic, clutch alignment tool and measure how far it inserts into the clutch and pilot bearing. I can then measure the length of my transmission's input shaft and confirm whether or not I have the pilot bearing installed deep enough into the back end of the crankshaft.

 

I remember thinking about this exact thing; that the clutch assembly may hang a bit low. I remember trying to hold the clutch alignment tool level but I did all of the clutch installation by myself so I didn't have a third hand to help with this. It's very possible that the twin discs are hanging a little bit low. With the slop of the plastic alignment tools, I'm thinking that this is what my problem is right now.

 

I found some relevant pilot bearing pictures:







Here is the GM pilot bearing that I purchased from Summit Racing.



This picture shows the back of the crankshaft after I'd removed the large pilot bearing.


Thi
This picture shows the new, small, GM bearing pressed into place.

 

I hope the last three pictures I posted above show up. For some reason, they're not showing up on my computer.

 

@JT Something maybe wrong with the forum. His pictures won't load. They say they are .jpg but they might just be renamed .webP files. I'll resave them as .jpg and try again.

I tried making a reply using the links he used to his pictures and I downloaded the picture to my computer and renamed them

 

Interestingly, the pictures WILL work if you click on the little loading bar, or if you select the one photo that did load then go to the next or previous one. They just won't display outside of the dedicated image viewer for some reason.

I wonder if this could be related to the relatively high resolution that modern smart phones natively take pictures at.

 

Those pictures actually show up just fine on this app but in the web browser they don't show at all

 

It's very weird. Right now, one of the pictures (#2) is showing up and the load bar for the others is just going across. When I tried to edit the post to reload the pictures, all four pictures showed up .

I'll try to edit and reload them and see what happens.

 

As of this posting, I think the pictures are now showing up correctly in post #22.

 

Plastic tools require alignment effort.

Take the bell off. Keep the clutch and loosen bolts. Stab it. If it seats in the bearing, wobble up and down and stop in the middle. Helper: tighten pressure plate bolts.

Now reinstall the bell.

2 longer bolts to hold the pp loose enough may be needed.

 

Your pictures are showing up now. Other people in other threads have been having trouble with pictures showing up too.

 

I'm glad that the pictures are showing up for everybody now.

 

This McLeod (actually Wilwood) clutch master cylinder reservoir was a real pain to install but I got it done and it looks great.


It took me two afternoons of work to finally get brake fluid into my McLeod clutch master cylinder reservoir. The reservoir was a pain to find a good place on the firewall to mount. I had to make a spacer block for the reservoir bracket. I had to unbolt the brake booster/mastercylinder assembly from the firewall to get a drill in there. I had to use a 90 degrees attachment on my drill. That 90 degrees attachment is one of the best tool purchases I've ever made in my life. I've had it for 25+ years and it comes in handy all the time!

The reservoir came with a 1/4" ID hose and the barb on the Tick adjustable master cylinder is 3/8". There was no way I was getting that 1/4" hose on the Tick MC 3/8" barb. Off to Ace hardware for a 1/4" to 3/8" barbed adapter. Got home and installed the adapter between the 1/4" and 3/8" hose and then connected it to the MC. I ended up using nice Oetiker clamps because I have them and I have the crimping tool.

Added fluid to the Reservoir and opened the end of my 4' long Tick bleeder hose and let gravity do its thing. Once fluid came out of the hose, I topped off the reservoir and got my wife to help with the bleeding of the MC. She pumped the clutch pedal many dozens of times while I was opening and closing the bleeder screw at the end of the hose. Fluid came out but no bubbles and the pedal was soft. Finally, some air came out and the pedal got a little bit firm. More air came out and then even more. It was looking good. During this process, I kept the reservoir topped off.

Then the air stopped and nothing but fluid was coming out the end of the bleeder hose. I noticed that the reservoir was quite low and it didn't seem like that much fluid had come out of the bleeder hose. I crawled under the car to inspect the slave cylinder and that's when I noticed brake fluid on the slave. The fluid was running down my "fancy new clutch" and was pooling in the bottom of the bellhousing.

So.........it appears that the GM Slave Cylinder & Throwout / Release Bearing for 1998-02 Camaro & Firebird LS1, Part #24264182 was overextended and brake fluid came out of it. Just to confirm, I had my wife push slightly on the clutch pedal again and the fluid shot out of the front of the slave cylinder where it contacts the pressure plate fingers. At this point, I called it a night and decided to come post on here and tell what happened.

I'm guessing that the seal is now blown out on my brand new slave cylinder and I need to buy a new one, right?

 

Some slaves you can pop back together.

I have the same resi w an American powertrain setup. It worked awesome. I replaced the 3 a bleed line w a longer one and used a speed bleeder valve. I ran the hose from the speed bleeder into the resi and filled/bled the system myself w no mess air issues. I also made a bracket to hold all off it. The red thing is a clutch pedal hight adjuster.

 

I'm going to be removing the transmission from under the car and then remove the slave. Once I take the slave cylinder off of the input shaft, do you know what I need to be looking for to see if I can put this slave back together?

 

I'd look at the o rings for damage and see if w a little brake fluid to lubricate things if it will pop back together. It's probably not fully a part. The seals probably just over traveled. Make sure there's no fluid on your clutch disk.

 

Thanks for the advice, Firechicken.

I didn't do anything with the car today but I'll get back to work on it tomorrow. I need to disconnect the hydraulics and get things set up to remove the transmission from the engine. Once the transmission is seperated, then I'll maneuver the transmission out from under the car. After that, I can spray the clutch down with brake cleaner to remove all the brake fluid.

I'm going to buy a steel alignment tool from Tick Performance. If need be, I'll buy a new slave cylinder from them at the same time.

 

I just got off the phone with Tick Performance and they confirmed that the overextended slave cylinder is junk. I just ordered a new one along with a steel clutch alignment tool.

I'll be pulling the transmission out later today.

 

Transmission was pulled last week. I noticed quite a bit of brake fluid in there from when my wife and I blew the seal on the slave cylinder. I sprayed it out with aerosol brake cleaner, called it a day and waited for my new parts.

Yesterday, my new parts from Tick Performance arrived. Today, I crawled under the car with my new, steel alignment shaft. It was a snug fit getting it into the twin clutch discs' splines and then it came to an abrupt halt before it went into the pilot bearing just like the transmission. The plastic alignment tool just wasn't good enough at lining all of this up.




Unfortunately, I noticed a lot of brake fluid had pooled down in the bellhousing. Even though I had sprayed everything with brake cleaner last week, a lot of oily brake fluid was still in there. I ended up spraying the clutch assembly down with brake cleaner and then I called Titlton Engineering to get their thoughts on the brake fluid. They suggested that I remove the clutch assembly from the flywheel and send them some pictures. I did so and am waiting to hear back from them. Everything looked pretty clean so I think that they'll just tell me to wipe it off with a brake cleaner soaked rag and install it.

I'm very confident that the more precise steel alignment tool will get this assembly lined up just right for the transmission to, hopefully, slip right in.

 

This all sounds like a nightmare and makes me glad I didn't go this route. Hopefully you get this sorted sooner than later and forget about all of this

 

That's unfortunate. I'd imagine they will recommend you cleaning the metal parts w brake cleaner and getting new disks. Once the friction material is contaminated you kind of SOL. I'd be miserable having a nasty chatter in my nice new trans/dual disk.

I have a ram dual disk w my magnum f. It shifts so well. The pedal pretty light and the shifts are fast smooth. You're gonna be really happy w this setup in the end. It's gonna be a blast to drive. All this frustration and time will pay off in the end.

 

Brake fluid is volatile. It evaporates. Slowly, for sure; but it does. Wipe up the pools, the rest will dry out in acoupla days.

 

Yeah, it cleans up on the metal easily. But the fluid will absorb into the friction material and I'm pretty sure that is an issue. Plus, only certain components of the fluid evaporate. The remaining residue in the friction material would likely cause chatter/uneven clamping. Ultimately less than ideal performance from an almost $1000 clutch in itself is less than ideal.

Im curious what the manufacturer says.

 

Doesn't matter what surface it's on.

OPERATING a clutch (or brakes or other friction device) with brake fluid on it is a WHOLE OTHER MATTER. Yes, that generally DESTROYS the material, butt mostly by acting as a lubricant and by various other paths. Otherwise, if the friction hasn't been OPERATED,

Brake fluid is volatile. It evaporates. Slowly, for sure; but it does. Wipe up the pools, the rest will dry out in acoupla days.

The manufacturer is going to tell you to buy a new clutch disc. Guess why... Physics and chemistry be damned. They just want into your pocketbook if they tell you that you have to do that with a disc that HASN'T BEEN OPERATED with the fluid on it.

 

I also worry about a nasty chatter in my clutch due to oil soaking.

Probably 20+ years ago, I installed a Ford Motorsport, heavy duty clutch in my 1991 Mustang GT that I ordered brand new from Ford in 1991. The flywheel was resurfaced but the clutch chattered from day one. The instructions said that it was supposed to break in by 500 miles but it never did. Thankfully it pretty much only chattered when the clutch/flywheel was cold. Once the engine warmed up, the chatter went away. Still, I don't want to experience any more clutch chatter!

I'm looking forward to a really nice drive experience with this Tilton twin disc setup. A light pedal will be nice, too. I currently have a Centerforce Dual Friction single disc clutch in my LS376/480 crate engine/Tremec T56 Magnum swapped Foxbody coupe. No chatter but the pedal effort is a little stiffer than I'd like. I have a hydraulic clutch setup from Modern Driveline in the Mustang.

 

Yesterday, I sent 10 pictures of my clutch to Tilton Engineering. I just got an email back from them and the two techs that I've spoken with on the phone, Tom and Kirk, looked at the pictures. They said they saw no signs of oil soaking and that they would reinstall it without hesitation.

 

Brake fluid is not oil.

It's an alcohol.

As a result, it's volatile. Also water soluble. (with a VENGEANCE... in fact it ATTRACTS water to itself, which is one its most unfortunate negative characteristics) It evaporates. Slowly, for sure; but it does. Wipe up the pools, the rest will dry out in acoupla days.

Not sure why all the arguing here. It Is What It Is.

 

Yeah, if the disk looks clean run it. That's awesome. Does the tilton dual disk have one solid hub disk and one spring hub disk? That how my ram is and to my surprise it's super smooth.

 

fwiw, I ran into this with my TKX install in my Chevelle. The plastic alignment tools are trash. I bought a steel one and it worked like a charm.

 

I've always preferred to use an old clutch gear. Since the mid 80s I've certainly had enough tore-up T-5 ones at hand.

 

Both Tilton disc hubs are sprung.