1988bird

hi guys, check this out if you havent already, and let me know what you think! will post my opinion later
www.pontiac.com/gto
From there, there is a link to go to the GTO page. Let me know what you think about the car. I know, not third gen related, but .......

camaro89dude

Love the interior....

1988bird

interior is great, but what do you think about the exterior?

Gumby

All I see is a grand-am, a monte carlo rear end, and a honda civic wing.

ohh and I love the single exhaust tips, does it have that new screaming 3 cycl geo motor too.

all i see is crap.

They take awsome car names and ruin them that way.

They think a name is enough to sell a car, NOT.


There goes another legend down the drain.

1986CamaroSC

It does have an LS1 in it though...

Gumby

oh yea, I didnt even bother to look, the out side was bad enough.


course can a LS1 even breath right out of a single exhaust.

Nixon1

The engine....they couldn't have made a better choice. Sucker has more hp than a 2002 SS Camaro.. Can't beat the choice between a 4 speed Hydramatic or a 6 speed either.... Interior is gorgeous..but the exterior..........AHHHHHHCCCCCK! Looks JUST like a Grand Am...and the single sided tips are a disgrace and don't do justice to such a wonderful motor. What as Pontiac smoking? You don't slap an awesome motor into a Grand Am lookalike, re-blandify the styling, and give it a moniker heralding back to the old days so people can look at it and say "They call that thing a GTO. HA!"............ What happened to the styling innovations I saw Pontiac do with the 4th gen Firebirds? Those were BEAUTIFUL!

1988bird

you're right about the civic and grand am look. Struck me soon's I saw it, but the engine is rated at around 340 hp, with a top speed of 160 mph, but still, I mean come on!!!!!

Joe_L

Looks a lot like an avenger from the side.
GM is never going to impress everyone. I enjoy the car somewhat.
Remember the Lemans remake a 3 cyclinder fwd **** ant car.
Now they bring back the GTO with tons of power, and not too bad looking RWD, and what do we do Bitch and complain about it.
Get with the times, old designs are never coming back, when ever they do a concept it fails and we never see it. We will have to settle with this cars looks, and hope that maybe the next one will be more apealing. But for now GM will have a car between the Vette and the monte Carlo, look at how screwd up the Monte is compared to this, its FWD and V-6. Atleast they got the drivetrain right on this car.
Just my $.02.

camaro89dude

However similiar it is to the Grand Prix/Grand Am, I still think the exterior looks good. The only things on the exterior that I disagree with are the projector headlights (who ever put these on a muscle car?), Euro looking tail lights (maybe on a Grand Prix, but not this car), and 18 inch wheels. I'm not saying they go back to 14s and 15s, but 18s are just too much. 16 in. Torque Thrust D chrome wheels would be awesome on that car. I kind of like the spoiler on there.

I dont like the exhaust system either, but there is an upside: If that thing can make 340 Hp with something like that, just a catback would give a nice performance boost.

But I still think it looks great all the way around, and I'd rather be seeing these on the streets than those ****ed up monte carlos; I mean, if people don't start buying these things, the resurgence of the Camaro might be front wheel drive.

1986CamaroSC

It would be an awesome sleeper to people that never seen them or didn't know anyting about them, but they shouldn't have called it a GTO

Gumby

so in a few years and you see the new square boxed 4 door camaro would would acept that???

no one would of like the new VW if it looked like a geo???




you have to play off the original body designs if you want to use the name. they can make any funky shape of car they want but you must play of the original design.

other wise it just loses it apeal and is gone forever.

Gm has turned into a parts bin company.

how man good names have gone down in flames

GTO
duster
nova
daytona charger
charger

Joe_L

Yes your are right. But your argument has nothing to do with mine. My point is this car is not a Charger, nova or Lemans. They actually never went backwards with it's drive train. Sure the exteriour needs some work, but this car is not doomed like the others were. What I said is that a company can never impress every person out there. Your not impressed, so they don't care, don't buy it.

By the way the reason the camaro is dead is because of its lack of boxy design, hate to break it to you but Muslce cars were boxy, but somehow GM, Ford and Dodge got away from that. And I would not except a four door version, look at the GTO, that car is not a Four door, how does four door come into this?

And Yes GM has ruined a lot of names, so have other company's. The GTO is playing off its heritage of RWD, and performance. I feel they did forget the looks part, but if this car does not sell, the Camaro of the future will be a FWD.

badandy247

When the '64 GTO came out most people thought it was ugly now nearly 40 years later this one comes out you guys bit(h about the looks and wonder why they don't make it look like the old one? that is funny! well see what you think about them when you get your a$$ handed to you by one

Joe_L

badandy247
You have a good point.
The GTO was considered a tacky car when it first came.
But there are so many fast, fun, cheap cars today its hard to say how this one will survive.

KED85

The GTO was considered a tacky car when it first came.

FROM ONE THAT LIVED IT WHEN IT WAS 1964!
The design was done by John DeLoreon.
No coke jokes ok!
The 1965 WAS STUNNING
The 1964 was a "BAND-AID" approach to get it to market FAST!

TACKY

Saying that really upsets me!
That's the LAST word that came to my mind in 1964!
My AUNT had a NEW 1965 GTO 4-Speed 389.
My Father had a NEW 1963 Grand Prix 421/Auto.
They used to race on Long Island back roads!!
My Cousin won SUPER STOCK DRAG RACES AT ATCO DRAGWAY with that 1965 GTO.
Until my Aunt found the trophy in the trunk one day!

The 1964 GTO and the 1963 Grand Prix were the FIRST execution of the "Coke" bottle body style.
This same "Styling" created the
1968 Charger
1968 Corvette.

TACKY
I assume you're not a "creative" design person....
Sorry have to really bounce this one back at ya
WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF ABOUT THIS GTO.
LOOK AT THE HOOD!

NOT EVEN A DECENT HOOD SCOOP! OR ANY HOOD SCOOP
I strongly assume the aftermarket boys wil fix that ASAP
I also firmly believe the exhaust will be corrected before it's inpublic hands.

IF I FELT LIKE IT,
I'd tell ya what I see of it inperson.
It's in LA auto show right now. I'm not a LA Freeway crowds fan & the TV viewing of auto show is just as good minus the crowds & driving & paying 4 parking.

WHAT I'M REALLY PISSED ABOUT IS
THE LAME 2003 50th ANNIVERSAY CORVETTE.
Wooppee!
Red paint-excuse me while I change my pants as I peed in excitment.
HELL THE CORVETTE WAS BORN WHITE EXTERIOR & RED INTERIOR . I KNOW I HAD and DROVE A 1954! (It was Blue & Tan, very rare).
IDIOTS!

I almost bought a 1964 GTO Tri-powered 4-speed Convertible w/wood wheel (Triple Black car). Guy wanted $5K in 1983. To much for me, then BUT VERY FAIR!
I picked up my 1967 RS/SS 350 Camaro Convertible 4-speed a few weeks later at only $3800, intact & very original. MY Camaro is now worth (READY?)
$118,800 (according to the USA today article of Aug 6, 2002).
I didn't make up that number.
Supply & demand.
Know any dealerships that have a new 1967 Camaro, still instock? I'll be there NOW!
I deduced that about 4-5% of the entire 1967 model year run were made to my Camaros' options & specs.
And I have the small block. Big block is 1-3% of the entire 1967 production. Yes a`67 Z-28 is less (only 602 made, period!).

The 1964 GTO is tacky looking.
PLEASE
RETRACT THAT!
PLEASE
RETRACT THAT!

Joe_L

Sorry Ked, I will take that back.
Tacky should be replaced with contriverisial. We all know Deloren was a contriversial car designer, and well the 64 was against the grain and at the time it was hate it and love it style. Myself I love the car, I said tacky as in how many did see it. I love the whole GTO history. But we know the 64 was an adventure that did deliver.

Once again I appoligise Ked for the insult I may have brought you.

Gumby

I think it ruines a name when they bring it back but with a cheassy car/design.

Like dodge they want back into the game and if they would have enough brains to just dig up some 60s dies and re do an erra of legends, no one would buy a vette or a mustang or a viper, for a few years untill you say the 2005/68 nova ss or the 65 mustang

you cant make muscle cars into family cars, stick to what works. big motors, a good name and the right look.

1986CamaroSC

I dont think it looks <B>Too</B> bad except for the exhaust they put on there, they weren't trying to make it the muscle car it once was...

<IMG SRC="http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/03images/04gto_2.jpg">

Joe_L

Now thats a line I couldn't agree more with. Althought one of the characteristics of muscle cars was a souped up grocerie getter.
I just hope that enough people do buy the GTO so we don't see a FWD version two or 3 years later.
What does everyone thing of the 2005 stang, I think they tried to hard for heritage, and have failed with a flawed design.

I think the back looks like a neon. If the front was more blunt and the rear had GTO judge styled Tail lights, I bet many would be more attracted to it.

KED85

I wasn't insulted...
IT WAS EVERY TIRE RUBBER MARK MADE BY A GTO SINCE IT'S INTRO IN Fall 1963 (1964 model year intro!).

Did you know that..
The KIDNEY GRILL LOOK COMMENTED ON
was first shown on the 1959 WIDE BODY PONTIACS?
LONGER LOWER WIDER was spun/ad tag line by Pontiac!
Yes, BMW has that "look" too.

I just saw the car (actually I made a point to see the TV show of the LA car show-made a great chicken dinner for family, too while doing this!).
FROM WHAT I CAN SAY...
The body panels are "set". Badges are from any GTO catalog, I'll bet.
The exhaust is just one tip as stated (a new detail for me to notice, as I assumed......)
I'd say..
That car is LITERALLY just the Australian car, brought over here for the show, with the US GTO "body panels" hung on the car, plus the flopped steering position.
I'd say when it's released to public (for sale), we may see a true dual exhaust, a variation of the Corvette/old Camaro/Firebird system. Like GM can't make a EPA US Gov't spec'd dual exhaust, com'n!
AND possily, the hood may change.
Those, to Detroit, are final detail items. Exhaust is for the EPA to pass & the Noise people to finally approve (US Gov't. says decibles not too loud, so that's why I'm GUESSING...)
This LA show is to gauge public reaction, only.
Remember the Chevrolet SSR? Was to be a 2002 model, now... (I HEAR sping of this year, but...)
I HEARD the GTO is a 2004 model year car, so.. we shall see.

BUT, my next new car?
1956 Corvette and a 1974/75 Vega Wagon for Drag Racing!
BUT first I gotta buy my Wife a MINIVAN thing.
(Atleast I'm keeping her first car the 1968 Camaro for my 2 year old Son when he is old enough!)
New 2005 Mustang...
Hell, I remember when my Dad brought home the new 1966 Mustang we paid like $2200 for! V-8, power steering, NO AM radio (that was added later on!).

OH LORD
WON'T YOU BUY ME A TIME MACHINE!!!!
SO I MAY BRING TO THE PRESENT
THE CARS OF MY PAST DREAMS
PROVE THAT YOU LOVE ME
AND BY THE NEXT BEND
OH LORD
WON'T YOU BUY ME
MY OWN TIME MACHINE!!!!
That's it!

Janis, how I miss you!

camaro89dude

I think the way they made this one is appealing to most youngsters who are influenced by the sport compact scene but want more power.

A nice recreation of the old models would be great in my opinion, but very few young buyers would buy them. These are the buyers that matter, not the guys having midlife crises or are feeling nostalgic; GM has to keep get new buyers and keep them loyal.

If they can make people buy this car, that will have a pretty great effect on the V8/RWD car production.

If they fail, RWD will be a thing of the past. And we don't want that.

And for the price tag they are gonna put on this, ($30,000 range right?) they really don't need to take chances. They need something that will sell.

As much as I hate to say it, 18 inch rims and projecter headlights sell. The Grand Prix/Am body sells. Futuristic interiors sell.

So if this sells well, they make another muscle car, and make it a change it. Once that is accepted, they can make some more changes. Eventually, they may have a kickass car. But, they can't just go from making a curvy, front drive family car to a 60's style muscle car. I mean, Ford didn't go from making the Torino straight to the Focus hatchback.

Things like this take time, and I think GM has made a damn good first step.

SO QUIT BITCHIN'!!! :sillylol: hehe

AFreaknGoodTme

Sorry guys but in 30 years it will still look like a plastic piece of sh*t.

camaro89dude

At least it will be a fast piece of ****, and maybe someday followed up by faster pieces of ****.

AFreaknGoodTme

The cars of today can not touch the cars of the 60's when it comes to raw power. They were heavier then too.

camaro89dude

I agree, but I think this is one of the best steps American production cars have made since the 80's.

AFreaknGoodTme

I'll take my 80's Camaro over that want-a-be Lexus any day.

I even clasify a Lexus as a want-a-be Lexus. Its like all car ar Chinese. You can't tell one from the next.

camaro89dude

I'll take your 'Vette any day.

1986CamaroSC

they might make this too,,, but i doubt it goes to production, looks a little better than the new GTO but too much like an SSR/Prowler type thing...

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/030105-1.htm


<img src="http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/03images/ss1.jpg">

AFreaknGoodTme

Thank you, but I'll tell you my wife little V6 Camaro is alot more enjoyable to drive unless you are on a track. The Vette is a pain in the *** to drive on surface streets.

Now that I like. I'll tell you what I can't wait to see in real life is the new Ford GT40's that they are rereleasing! My mother just remarried one of the top executives in ford- He's in charge of all dealerships in the western half of the states. Its his call whether they stay in business or not. I'm thinking big- I want a GT40 and my own dealership! Might take a few years to smooth him over.

1986CamaroSC

i'd take one of these 13.6L 16cylinder 1000hp/1000ft/lbs though

<img src="http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/03images/det_cadillac16_1.jpg">

camaro89dude

That looks like a Prowler crossed with a new 300ZX...

It's an equation gone horribly wrong.

camaro89dude

I meant the red SS looks like the 300/Prowler;

That other one looks like *** in my opinion. I would rather drive the starship enterprise than that.

The wheels remind of something....

Can you "the price is right" remember that spinning wheel...

Looks almost like Bob Barkers old *** beside that car too

1986CamaroSC

your too funny... and i'm too tired.... but all new concepts and even prosuction cars these days are all looking rediculus, look st the grand prix/cavy/sunfire/sx 2.0/etc.. goes on forever, i shudder what monstrosity they will turn the f-body into....

89V6FBIRD

Is it me or does that thing have the shape of the new and discontinued Mercury Cougar?

I did see it up close at the LA Auto Show yesterday, yeah the promise of an LS1 is nice, but who would want to be driving an LS1 in an import body. The car was displayed on a turntable at an angle. So maybe they were trying to show off under the car? Maybe it's a daily driver look?? The interior looked nice from what I saw. The exterior reminded me of a Grand AM or Grand Prix, or even a bigger Cavalier...

Nixon1

My final opinions on the GTO: Needs dual exhaust, needs hood scoop, needs more sharp and angled ground fx...interior is beautiful though, no b*tches and moans there...and 340 horses and RWD..hell, can't pass that up..hopefully this thing will tear the ***** off the import boys.

SSR:....If this truck-like...thing..makes it to production, I will shoot myself. I see many cars I dislike. I rarely see cars that DISGUST me. The SSR greatly disgusts me.

That Cadillac Monstrosity....Jesus, what the hell has gotten into Cadillac? For the most part, I think their cars are horrible looking...aside from that..whatever the hell it is..the one with the V6 that sounds a hell of a lot like a 3rd gen V6...the one where it's on the racetrack and rides the opposite direction through a crowd of sharply contrasted cars... But...back to topic...the rims are WAY too huge...what the hell... The headlights are like something from a sci-fi movie...they're about 10-15 years too early... Color scheme just screams 'old person trying to feel young again'....

Regarding the red SS blob: I don't mind the shape. Don't mind the overall body design. What I do mind..is the front end. GM seems to REALLY like that style..notice how it made it on this car, the SSR, and Cadillac's somewhat related but horribly deformed version on the above-mentioned car.. But that front end is horrible. AHHHCK.

There..there's my 2 cents.. Hell, that's more like $2 right there....

MDv6man

In terms of the GTO -- I am anxiously awaiting its return to the showroom floor. For all of the styling gripes and the "go retro" attitude, I must say -- GM almost hit the nail on the head with this one.

Why? Back in 64 when the original came out, the idea from Estes and Delorean was to take the large displacement 389 and put it in the compact (for its day) Tempest body. That's how the Goat was born. Large engine in a small sporty family car.

This one follows the original's roots. It has a family car appearance, smaller body style, and a 340 horse LS1 to boot. What's missing? Hood scoops for sure -- The raisin bran scoops were present for most of the car's run and a hood scoop of some kind was present every year.

At least GM got the roots with this car correct and didn't bastardize it like they did the 442 (anyone remember the "Quad 442"?). Better late than never but better never than wrong.

I will probably get one someday (althought the thought of working with OBD II kind of scares me). Not this year -- I'll give it a year or two so any factory defects are worked out.

Gumby

This call for a protest domain.

2003GTOSucks.com
03GTOBlows.com
03GTOhas gottago.com

Gumby

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/lf/010603tomahawk&tmpl=sl&e=1


"Chrysler Group President Dieter Zetsche shows the Dodge Tomahawk concept motorcycle for the first time at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit on January 6, 2003. With a 500-horsepower, 8.3-liter (505 cubic inch) Viper V-10 engine powering dual rear wheels, the Tomahawk concept has an estimated top end of nearly 400 miles per hour, says Dodge. "

"The 1,500-pound Tomahawk can reach 60 miles an hour in about 2.5 seconds"

Gumby

.

Gumby

.

pontiacguy1

Just be glad that ANY detroit automaker is turning out any cars that have musclecar roots, and great performance to boot. Most of the bean counters would rather build nothing but trucks and SUV's. Not that there's anything wrong with those, but Most compaines are treating their car lines as second class citizens. Face it, over 50% of new vehicle sales are trucks or SUV's. The automakers give the buyers what they want.

Say what you want about the Caddy, it has a V-16 engine, and is a bold statement. Since the price tag will be upwards of $250K, you probably won't be seeing too many of them. It is a name builder, and even a few years ago, the GM brass wouldn't have had the guts to produce it. Same thing applies for the new Ford GT-40.

Same for the GTO. It is a decent, though not very eye catching body style. It has all the good hardware, and will also have a tremendous aftermarket following if there is any sales volume. I am glad that some of the automakers are at least attempting to make performance oriented cars that people can actually afford. Ditto for the new 350Z.

Nixon1

I tip my hat to the new 350Z.. I always liked the look of those cars..and still do.

KED85

Com'n!
THAT 350ZTHING IS JUST A BLOB OF METAL POURED OVER OLD CONESTOGA WAGON WHEELS it is so ugly.
Minicks the ego of the designer hersberg or whatever his name is.
Want nice, really the 2005 mustang is GREAT LOOKING
It looks just like a 1967 Mustang which was a decent style, period.
YET B4 ya dump on me, the specs of the 350ZTHING is quite impresive.
The 350ZTHING style is sad, very truly sad.
I can't wait to see the 350ZTHING after one season on California Acid rain & smog/fog.
Atleast the new 2005 Mustang does stand out from the crowd and can be identified as a MUSTANG.
That ZTHING looks just like any other BLOB OF METAL POURED OVER WHEELS THESE DAYS. It looks as cheap.
BUT the specs to price ratio is impressive.
I'd stil rather go find a 240Z and maybe own that if it wasn't so underpowered, then & now.
I know I drove one (1973) up a hill & had to down shift.
Doing the same hill in my old 1966 Corvette (base engine/tranny no less), PLUUUUSSEEEEE what a POWERFUL world apart.
Let me step aside now so my shoes don't get stuck in the muck!

KED85

http://www.stangnet.com/mustanggtconcept/

Nixon1

Pardon me while I choke on my own vomit. That Rustang is...a behemoth! It just looks enormous. It's the 'GAPING like a shotgun wound' grille. And I think it's sad when a styling department has to resort to such retro styling cliches to sell cars because they're uncreative enough to not be able to reinvent the car again.

Joe_L

There is nothing wrong with Retro.
Its when you do retro and fail. The Bel-air concept tried and failed, the Thunderbird was a success.

But the news stang is so blunt, and short. Has anyone else noticed how short the new Mustangs are. I was standing by one when they first came out, and I was like whoa that thing is tiny.
Same with the 4h gen, wheres the 3 arces of hood? Oh well its a new generation, and I am sure that the new stang will still sell good.

Nixon1

I guess I just don't like anything retro revived.. Such as, the new T-Bird..I hate it. I think it's the loftiest, bubbliest, ugliest design I've seen in a while. But then again I NEVER HAVE liked T-Bird designs, except for a few select years somewhere in the 70's..when they had they larger, muscle car look.

Gumby

The T-bird was a Corvette wanna-be. when some guys at ford got leaked info about it they started working on it, then when the big brass found out they got mad and aid stop. then a year or so later at lemanz someone asked, why dont we have a 2 seater project.

and it was born, oh and some guy got the name and symbol off a coffe cup.

KED85

OH PLUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEE

I assume you're unaware.
The Thunderbird was born in the 50's.
IT WAS NAMED FOR AN INDIAN SPIRIT IN PALM SPRINGS where the designer "drew" the design.
The original "Thunderbird" is still out there in Palm Springs, California.

NOW TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT

The 1955 Corvette was an ATTEMPT TO STEAL THUNDERBIRD SALES (the 265 V-8 was first in the 1955 Corvette.)
Ex-122 (the name assigned to the work order form from Chevy/GM brass THEN) was a 1954 Vette, with the V-8 engineered into the car.
The Corvette WOULD NOT BE CELEBRATING IT'S 50th ANNIVERSAY IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE COMPETITION OF THE THUNDERBIRD RELEASED IN 1955.
The FORD/CHEVY RIVALARY was JUST BEGINNING!
The 1957 FORD line outsold the 1957 Chevrolet line.
YET
Where are all the 1957 Fords?
SERIOUS!
They rusted away.
Literally that's why so few left over, EXCEPT in the Southwest states or what went elsewhere.
Serious.
Ford was notorious for rust problems, then.

Design
just like Beauty
is in the eye of the beholder.

Design wise, one is CORRECT to say, it looks like the old car.
Blazing new trails...
Show me a "new" design that's appealing.
Sing me a "new" song
Show me a "New" commercial
TELL ME A "NEW" IDEA!

Tough to make new standards...
PS I STILL AWAIT THE RETURN OF THE HOT PANTS LOOK!
LUCKILY WE HAVE HAD LOW RISE HIP HUGGER JEANS!
AND MICRO MINI SKIRTS
YES!