I've got about $800 to spend, a recently rebuilt 2.8 in my garage, a car with close to 140k on it, K&N filters in the stock intake, and an aftermarket exhaust. I'm looking for some mods to give my car that extra umph, preferrably for my new engine and not nitrous.
So, the question is, what can I do for under 1000 bones?

 

Camshaft, port/polish heads... 16" IROC wheels with some good rubber, lowering springs, adjustable panhard bar, and LCAs + brackets?

 

LCA's and brackets????

I think I do have Iroc wheels....they r 5 spoke kinda white/gray and have hubcaps that say camaro.....or are Iroc wheels completely different?

I don't really want to lower because I am so paranoid now of hitting the ground on my GFX.

Does anybody make a good camshaft for my engine?

As far as heads go...would heads from a different engine work say a 3.4 or maybe a fiero ( don't know too much about fieros). How much of a gain would porting and polishing make.

 

I would do underdrive pulleys, and a urethane bushing kit for my suspension, and hunt down some Iroc Sway bars, and try to find a wonder bar.

Then try to find some 1.6:1 roller rockers.

 

A 5 speed makes all the difference in the world. If you have an auto id spend the cash on a bone yard 5 speed swap, IMO the best v6 upgrade avalible. If you already have one then do what the others suggested.

 

Upgrade to 3.73 gears, and have them installed... $400 right there.

 

My opinion, do the following:

1) Get a die grinder kit and a good power drill. Port and polish your intake.

2) Get a set of 1.52:1 or 1.6:1 roller rockers.

3) Get a set of 15lb injectors from a later model 3.1 Camaro or Firebird, or from a 2.8 V6 Fiero. You currently have 13lb injectors on your 2.8 Camaro.

(About $300 bucks right there with the injectors from the junkyard and cleaned)

4) Replace your catalytic converters with free-flow cats (to get rid of those old brick charcoal cats).

Now, you still have $450 bucks left to burn... spend it on a good tuneup, maybe a new oxygen sensor, and some rear-end gears with posi if you can.

 

If you came down to Indy sometime I would sell you my heads, intake, and throttle body (shipping would be a killer on the heads, you could port and polish them and get quite a bit more power out of it. Or I would sell you just the intake and ship it to you so if you screw up porting and poishing it it would not be a big deal.
E-mail me at rf805@yahoo.com if you are interested.

 

Does any body have the part numbers for the roller rockers?

 

No, but they are made by "Comp Cams".

They sell a set of 1.52:1 or 1.6:1.

With an otherwise COMPLETELY stock motor, I noticed a DRASTIC improvement with a port-match / polish, and 1.52:1 roller rockers.

The factory rocker arms are stamped 1.5:1. However, due to cheap manufacturing, they often end up being anywhere from 1.48-1.5 so half the time, your rocker arms are not even 1.5 ratio.

 

Wow, perfect timing! I'm porting/polishing my heads after I finish up my intake. How much do they go for?

 

the 1.6: roller rockers are like 135 from summit

86camarodriver: i don't think I'll be to indy any time soon....i've done too much traveling for car parts recently.

 

Im not sure if i have the correct rocker arms for your application but i have a set of comp cams pro magnum full roller(?) self-aligning 1.6 rocker arms for 149.99. They're part number 1318-16 and are a 322.00 dollar value. Im not sure if they are for a v6 though so do some research and email me if you are interested. profit_mic@yahoo.com

 

I bought the Comp Cam Magnum 1.52 rocker arms roller tip from Summit Racing for $112, part number CCA-1413-12

 

well......800 beans bones or bills.....buy the solid roller cam out of summit...which will gain you hp and trq but also gas milage. it costs 267. get the roller tiped rockers.....or do what I still have to and find out if Full roller1.6's out of a v8 will work. that'sround to about 180 as for your choice on which one. have theheads done....and the price in my town with new seals and springs is 300. so figure with that about 747 total without shipping. and from how I under stood you you can do the acctual work youself so that saves you. and if you do go to 1000....subframe connectors...helps on accel and cornering. eliminates most all body flex.....and prevents the dreaded " STRESS CRACK" myfirebird had one.

 

stress crack???

I went with a powermax 2030, 1.52 magnum roller tip rockers, cloyes true roller.
that was about 400 including shipping from jegs. Now I am just replacing everything that could've gone bad in 30k.

:lala: :lala: In addition to all those parts, I got like 6 stickers so thats another like...300 HP right there:lala: :lala:

 

stress crack in the body. as long as you have a full roof look at the back of the windows. if you pull alot of hard take offs and had turns there should be a rip in the roof. you'll see the start right in the corner.

2 ways to fix.
1: get the spot welded.....
2: more money but better. get it welded then have a plate welded behind it BUT a brace had to be drilled loose....the more money.

 

Yep, I've got those damn stress cracks in both spots. GM fills that area with lead... see <a href="https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182481#post1330610">This Message</a> for more details.

(laughs) Man I tell ya, all it took was for me to develop one web application for me to use actual html tags besides bold & italics in these messages

 

I read that and yes it is cause of the lead it's worse on like the 80 half vinal top malibus. the moisture under it eats the metal and leaves the lead.

 

I've got a T-top, and at the moment my car doesn't take off too hard, so I guess I don't really need to worry about that

 

Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm new to 60 degree GM V6's but very familiar with high-performance V8's from Ford, GM, and Mopar.

Throwing a solid roller bumpstick into a basically stock motor isn't really a good idea. Most, if not all of the solid roller grinds are pretty intense as far as duration, lift and overlap. Overcamming a motor is probably the biggest mistake home-grown engine builders make next to over carbureting.

Rebuilding and machining the heads is a good idea. however, if you're going to install a performance camshaft, you'll need to make sure the valve springs you intend to install are correct in terms of seat pressure, possibility of coil bind, and installed height. High RPM usage dictates the necessity for hi-perf locks and retainers. None of this is cheap. Additional machine work may also be required to the valve spring seats and the top of the valve guide to accomodate multiple spring arrangements.

Back to the solid roller issue, I'm not clear on whether or not these motors already have hydraulic roller valvetrains. The mid-80's was when hydraulic roller valvetrains started appearing in the V8's but I don't know about the V6's. If in fact they are still flat tappet motors, additional factors add to the equation.

If the camshaft is really aggressive, and you're running an automatic, the stock torque converter will not be beneficial to the overall performance of the motor. Here's where torque converters with higher stall speed come in. I haven't seen any for the 2.8. Doesn't mean they aren't there, but it may mean they aren't readily available.

This is in no way intended to flame anyone, nor is it a rant. I'm stating a difference of belief while asking for clarification. I'm new here and don't want to ruffle feathers, but I also don't want to see someone spend hard earned money and ultimately end up disappointed. I'm impressed by what I've read that some of you have done with a motor that's been long ignored.
I hope to learn as much as I hope to share.

I'm done now

 

All that money?
Rebuild suspension & have about $600 left over.
Go find a 3.4.
Find more money!

 

To answer a few remaining questions/unclear issues... Subframe connectors will help ALL of the F-Bodies, and I'm sure it will make an even BIGGER difference on the T-Top cars.... These cars are unibodies.....so when we stomp the gas, make hard turns, etc...it's hard on the frame, and certain areas of the car receive large amounts of frame stress. The SFC's distribute that around the car and relieve the stress points as well as dramatically improve the handling and 'solidity' of the car. I've never had them done, but everyone on here that has have stated drastic improvements.

I'm pretty sure these V6's had hydraulic roller valvetrains but don't quote me on that.

A stall converter on an automatic will help a lot, especially with any performance modifications. The stall level depends on your level of modification. If it's a mild street car, I'd go with a 2000-2500 stall. If it's a street/strip or fairly modified car....as in motor work, not bolt-ons.....I'd go with a 2500 stall. I think 3000 might be a little much for these tiny motors. Get a lockup converter if you can. I doubt the V6's can make enough power where they would have to worry about breaking a lockup converter. The lockup adds gas mileage by physically coupling the engine and trans. ALSO, VERY IMPORTANT. If you buy a stall converter, make SURE you get a trans cooler for it. Trust me. It's explained in the next little section here.

If you've got $50 leftover, BUY A TRANS COOLER if you don't already have one!!!! It's cheap insurance. Our transmissions, the 700-R4's, run HOT by design. And GM, the shortsighted morons they can be, didn't equip them with transmission coolers from the factory. Heat destroys transmissions...and 700-R4's have a nasty habit of self-destructing, PARTICULARLY the older models. I wouldn't be surprised for you to see an extra 10,000+ miles EASILY out of your factory transmission by just maintaining it and adding a cooler alone.

 

Hey RustBucket, you bring up a LOT of good points. I'll try to answer the ones I DO know about, and hopefully that will help others out too.

1) Roller Rockers - The factory V6, at least the GEN-1 V6/60 is all flat-tappet hydraulic. This motor however never came with roller rocker arms. The FACTORY casting for rocker arms was 1.5:1. Though done poorly at that with something more realistic like a rocker arm ratio of 1.485:1. So 1.52:1 roller rockers wouldn't do anything but help it. I don't have any experience with the 1.6:1s, but I've been told it does slightly alter the geometry at which the valve has pressure applied to it which can cause premature valve shaft wear.

2) Cyl head porting - It's best to make sure that you tell the machine shop what you plan to do to the engine. Some of the early cast iron cyl heads do not have enough "meat" under teh valve seat to properly support a high output cam and they've been known to break. The later 2.8s and 3.1s have more metal.

3) As far as the torque converter goes. You can find a higher stall torque converter from a 4 cyl car. I did this very same thing with my Pontiac Fiero. The V6 and 4cyl Fieros share the same transmissions, but with different torque converters. I took the torque converter from a 1987 Fiero L4 and dropped it into my 1987 Fiero SE / V6. It has a 250 rpm higher stall speed. It's not THAT much, but it's just enough to give the car a little bit more of a kick. 1985 Fiero L4s had something like a 500 rpm higher stall speed, but I decided to go with the 250.

 

Thanks for the info. 82-T/A! Ti sheds some light on things for me.

I see the old "Vega converter" trick still works. BITD, you could snag a TH350 converter out of a 4-pop Vega and throw it behind a small block for a poor man's stall converter. I've even seen em behind big blocks (but not for long ) In essence, that's what you're doing with the Fiero converter.


Since the 60 degree V6 is a flat tappet motor, to make the switch to a full roller valve train (camshaft and rockers) a few things will need to be done. The valve springs I mentioned earlier. With 82-T/A's information on the valve seats, this may be something to pay close attention to. I never have been impressed with GM's metallurgy. Here's where talking to machinists or even the camshaft manufacturer and see what they recommend. Yes they want to sell you parts, but they don't want you bad-mouthing them after they sold you the wrong stuff. They're most often very helpful.

What's the scoop on bumping compression? How far can the heads be cut? Block deck? If you can get the motor to pump a little wind, you'll really see a gain from a bit more camshaft or on a smaller scale, the better rocker arms.

I'm enjoying this. The only other 60 degree V6 I've ever worked on was the 2.4L Mercury outboard on the back of my boat It's a 200 hp motor in stock trim. Still basically stock, just some exhaust work done, that's all. Probably 215 to 225hp from a 2 stroke

 

RustBucket, I'm curious about how to increase the compression too. I've thought about having the block decked and the intake cut down as well. There CERTAINLY is enough room at the bottom of the intake. You've got something like 2/8ths of an inch below the intake manifold where it touches the block.

The thing is, I lost compression when I rebuilt my engine.

I started off with a 2.8 and I upgraded it with .040 overbore pistons (SLIGHT dish), and a 3.1 crank and rods. So essentially, I have a 3.2 liter now. Going with just standard bore 3.1 pistons and the stroker kit, it would have brought my compression down to 8.5:1 (down from 8.9:1). But from what I understand, going with .040 overbore pistons DID increase my compression slightly.. getting me something like 8.6:1.. with a slightly decked block and intake manifold I believe I have something like 8.65:1 But I'm not sure.. I'm a little bummed about losing the compression but the extra displacement, the cam, and all the other items more than make up for the power I lose with the compression loss. They didn't have exact pistons for my application.. which is why I lost compression. It was either that, or I have some custom made which would have cost me around $700 bucks.. DEFINITELY not worth it.

 

So what are the factory piston specs on these things??

What's the bore dia?
Compression height?

It appears that they are different between the 2.8 and the 3.1. The nice thing about 8.5:1 compression is that it'll nearly run on water. . The bad thing is that I produce more wind after eating my wife's mexican cooking. But hey that's another story, and you get the idea

Are you guesstimating your CR or have you measured volumes and done the math?

There's a long drawn out process to accurately determine the compression ratio. It involves measuring the volume of the cylinder with the piston at TDC and again at BDC (swept volume) t also entails finding the volume of the head gasket, and the cylinder head combustion chambers. If you thought your rocker arm ratios were funky, wait til you start cc'ing a set of stock heads. This is what the numbers in your compression ratio are telling you. Remember from math class that a ratio is a comparison. You're comparing the total volume of the cylinder with the piston at BDC to the compressed volume of same cylinder at TDC. An 8.5:1 compression ratio means that the volume at BDC is eight and a half times greater than the volume at TDC. How does this relate to performance? Obviously the more fuel/air mix you pack into a compressed space the more violent teh combustion and ultimately the more power produced (within reason). So anytime you increase the swept volume size while maintaining the same compressed volume, you've increased your compression ratio For example, increasing the cylinder diameter will increase compression ever so slightly. Bigger swept volume right? You can also increase compression by reducing the volume at TDC. Smaller combustion chambered heads (or milling), thin head gaskets, zero deck clearance(at TDC piston is perfectly flush with block deck) are all ways to reduce volume at TDC. This is the preferred method.

Now I really want to tear into one of these things. I can't see doing it to my son's car. It's his daily driver and he ain't gettin my truck

 

Truthfully, I do not know. I was guessing on the last 2. I do know that the compression with these pistons is 8.5:1 assuming regular bore (not overbore). That's the compression that I got from the machinist, and the person selling me the stroker kit.

If you really want to tear into one of these motors... then get yourself a 3.4 liter from the 93-94 F-body. That motor was exactly the same as the engine I have in my Fiero, and that they put in the 3rd gen Camaros / Firebirds. The 3.4 liter is basically the same motor, but with all the best STOCK parts for this generation motor.

There are a LOT of performance items available for that block, and it's a direct swap for your Son's car.. and probably your truck if that's the motor it uses.

 

sell the girl and get a v-8...even if its only a TBI like mine

 

LOL My truck is a '01 Ram with a 5.9 Power's not an issue

He and I both are of the opinion that if the motor comes out, it doesn't go back. Smallblocks are too plentiful and easy to deal with. If we do any mods to that motor it'll be weekend project stuff only. This thread just let me stretch my brain a little bit and do some thinkin. I'll have to do some homework on these motors and see what's what. I get a kick out of doing what I can with what I've got which seems to be the consensus here. Otherwise we'd all be over on the V8 forum talking about our newly installed ZZ4's Truthfully, though if we decided to stay with a V6, I'd opt for the 4.3 They're plentiful too now that guys are shoving 305s and 350s into S-10s.

We bought the car from a friend of mine who owns a shop. 400 bucks for a running V6/auto T-Top Camaro with power everything, and after fixing a couple of minor things all of the power everything works. Even the AC blows cold All I needed to do to the motor was replace the MAF and the O2 sensor. While we did that, we did a tune up. About three weeks ago the tranny started leaking profusely. Cracked torque converter. (GM metallurgy again hmmm)

She won't win best of show anytime soon but now that the mechanicals seem to be in order (knock on wood) We'll start tackling the body and interior as money allows.

I'm a gearhead since birth. I think that was me they show in the ultrasound on that Valvoline commercial I've owned one GM vehicle before this and it was a Camaro too, a '79 Z28 to be exact. While I've appreciated them for the machines they are, I never really wanted one. I come from a family of Ford employees, but somehow ended up a Mopar guy. Besides the Ram i have a '71 Charger in the garage awaiting restomod with a real 383 for power

Sorry about going OT for a bit. I'll behave I promise No really, next time I will.

 

Nice! Another Floridian here! Always sweet

$800 to spend? Build a custom turbo!!!

 

Want a 440 with a steel crank?
$750
Complete mill top to bottom
carb to AC compressor to oil pan to PS pump to alt.
Email me & I'll send ya pics.
The 440 is from a running vehicle with 72K miles on it.

 

I would if it weren't in SoCal. Coast to coast for a complete motor would be killer. There's a 440 sitting in Ocala (My brother-in-laws) on a stand that's mine if I want it. Ready to assemble. I already have the heads here in my garage.


Thanks anyway though. I can check with some of my Mopar mates on that side of the Mississippi and see if I can generate some interest.