1. Unless you're the original owner of the car OR have the RPO sheet with matching VIN, I wouldn't trust anything to be stock with these cars.

2. Open diff's will sometimes spin both EVEN without air bags.

3. Most mechanics I've met think that they know every little fact about cars. I had one argue with me for 10 minutes that my car is NOT a real Z28 because it has a 305. I had another (ASE Certified) tell me that 98 Z28's came with LT1's, and that all the SS's all came with LS1's (explain that one to my friend who owns a 97 SS)

4. You look across the parking lot at my Firebird and tell me if it's a Trans Am or not......if you can't see the spoiler, then good luck. I don't know what year Firebird you have, but remember that a lot of years the V6's came with Trans Am Appearance packages, and if they didn't, then they still look like Formula's aside to the hood and spoiler.

5. This site is based mainly on facts. The reason that people claim that a V6 never came from the factory with a LSD is because of two reasons. A) GM has no record of such. B) There hasn't been a single person post a picture of his RPO sheet (including VIN) to prove it. Until you, or someone else does, then everyone here will call :BS: to your claim.

 

Its one thing to call bs to what im saying, you know what they say about opinions. Its another to argue with someone over and over like a child. As far as the spoiler thing, i think anyone who knows about f bodies can look at a ta or firebird from the front back or side, hell, even the damn roof and tell it is what it is. Yes gm does not list this as an option you are correct. I never said they did. As far as this site being fact driven? Really? I can look over 50 posts and see misinformed people posting information they have no clue about, Such as one poster saying you need everything from the rad to the rear for a v6 to v8 swap. To another telling this poor guy to run the + wire from his fan to his cig lighter to have the fan on all the time!!! The fact is they're are misinformed people on here. The fact also is i was not asking for dowards comments and i am tired of the arguement. I know the car is posi, not because it spins 2 tires, because i had the damn thing open and other reasons. Here is an Old pic of mt car, Its the white one in case anyone can not tell the difference between a FIREBIRD and a CAMARO You are right about ase mechs, i had one screw up my old tbird because he set the firing order to a standard 5.0 after i told the noodle it was a swaped in ho. Its not the dissagreement, its the arguement. we can dissagree but to argue is stupid.

 

Yes there are misinformed people on here, and some peopel CAN tell the difference from the rear, but it's impossible (aside to spoiler/hood) to tell the difference from the side or front. You said "even the roof." I'll post pics of roofs if you want and you tell me.

Remember, the only exterior difference other than badging that is V8-V6 specific, is the taillights (and only on some models). Even the base 305 Firebirds/Camaros got the base spoiler. Other than that, there really is no way to tell v8 or v6.

If you had the carrier opened and saw posi, then most likely, someone put it in. Post a picture/scan/whatever of your RPO codes. I guarantee you that it didn't come that way from the factory.

This reminds me of the 350/T5 argument that's gone on over here for years.l

 

I was halfway joking about the roof thing. I do not have a cam, in fact this pic was takin at englishtown when me and a friend went to the crappy f-body race( IT SUCKED ) As soon as i get one ( or get ahold of him to) ill take pics of everything. :lala:

 

---------------------------
Brobert quoted:

I can look over 50 posts and see misinformed people posting information they have no clue about, Such as one poster saying you need everything from the rad to the rear for a v6 to v8 swap. To another telling this poor guy to run the + wire from his fan to his cig lighter to have the fan on all the time!!! The fact is they're are misinformed people on here.
---------------------------
THEN-
---------------------------
Brobert quoted:

I was halfway joking about the roof thing.
---------------------------

Who's the frickin hipocrate now cowboy- May I suggest YOU drop the childish arguement.

 

V6 or 8?

 

6 or 8?

 

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to be a smartass....

6 or 8

 

?

 

Little hint: Out of those 2 are V6's and 2 are V8's.

I know my examples are easily figured out, but I didn't feel like finding pictures...I just had all these on my HD.

 

hehe... 6 or 8?

I had to

 

No, brobert - my problem is simply that you are posting false information, that some newb is going to search 'posi' in the V6 forum, and guess what. Now he, too, will think that maybe he, too, has a posi in his firebird.

If Overclock is right, and GM themselves have no records of V6's rolling out with LSDs, who are you going to trust? Someone that works on the cars, or the guys that actually built it?

Thank you.

On a side note -

'Its amazing how people claim to be correct when they are not, A limited slip rear was an option on v6 firebirds, you can claim it to be a open rear untill the cows come home you are not correct'

And the moral of the story is... don't be a dick, Dick.

 

If you happen to find that 350/T5, let me know. That's exactly what I want. GM should have made a better 5 speed than the T5 and stuck it in with the 350.

 

Whos the hipocrate ? 2.8 what the hell are you talking about. Stop taking this so harsh and get a life. As the pics go when the guy looked at my car the hood was also open, I think its pretty obvious if my car is a v6 or v8 then dont you? Doward i NEVER said gm listed this as an option, Maybe if you took your head outa your a$$ and read correctly youd see what i was saying. I am just telling you what the tech told me according to my vin rpo and code i got off the rear. When i first spun the tires i also thought, V6? no posi,. thats what led me to open the rear look for the code rpo talk to the tech etc. I think some of you take these posts to serious, you really need a life if you let something someone says on here get to you so bad that you need to argue with them over and over. Im doe with the argueing, Read this thread from start to finish , its stupid! When i get the pics ill post them, untill then it seems stupid to reaspond to someone who plain out calls you a liar. The reason i didnt argue with th emod is because of the way he responded, he didnt use a condisending atitude as you did doward. Ive seen your cocky replies in other posts as well so i should of known. Well as i said when i get pics ill post them, i dont wish to waiste my time argueing have a nice day

 

ok, this argument is getting old. The RPO's are usually on a sticker in the center console. List all of the RPo's and make everyone shut the hell up please. It's true that you COULD have LSD, but chances are not. I don't even care to see the picture of the RPO label, I think it would be well enough to put up the VIN and RPO codes on the sticker...type them in , it's fine. It'll end this. Hmmmph!!!

 

No i dont think typing them in would do it, then id be called a liar so ill wait till i can get pictures then post them.Anyone can type what ever they want, pictures are worth more.

 

That's YOUR qoute, from page 4.

YOU came after me. YOU claimed -

I rest my case. All I said was -

So now you're calling me a liar, about your previous statements?

Yes, and I, as well as many others on here, are telling you you are wrong. And yes, even a GM Tech can be wrong. People ARE wrong sometimes, you know (go ahead, you can admit it!)

I'm not trying to say there is no way you have a posi. Quite a simple (and common) procedure to swap one in. We're just trying to tell you, it did not come with one from the factory. And now even YOU are saying GM didn't list it as an option?? Need to get your story straight...

Just drop this. I think we succeeded in making sure no one ever finds this thread, and thinks that a posi came stock in their V6 ('98+ Y87 3.8 excluded). :lala:

 

Wrong, all 2.8's did NOT come with 3.42's. Look at the 84 Berlinetta for example.

 

As i said before i NEVER said it was listed as an option. I said it was stock, Its not my fault you lack the metal strength to tell the difference between those two statements, And anyone who sees this post should check the codes to be certain. As far as the 342's in 2.8's. In this very site it says they came with 342's 85 Sport Coupe
Berlinetta
Firebird M5,A4 LB8 V6 8.9:1 2.8 (173) 135@5100 165@3900 MFI 3.42 ---- 3.42
So what the hell is the problem on here? Does everyone just like to argue!? Doward you posted before do a burnout and count the tire makes, one one one a posi does this That looks to me you are saying i do not have a posi, AND if you know so much as you claim to you'd know that is not the correct way to see if you have a posi. Even beat old posi units can spin one tire at times. It seems we have some people who read a post and dont see what the words are really saying they take it as something else and get all upsett and want to argue.Doward you said people can be wrong sometimes, so why dont you go ahead and admit it, you were wrong, i never said it was LISTED AS AN OPTION i said it was stock. YOU are correct that it wasnt listed. You are incorrect that my car didnt come from gm with the posi, as it did .I checked all the codes. You dont know how much BS i had to sort though to get to the facts. Between the vin and the rpo and the diff code. I (and i hope anyone who read ANY of these posts) did not trust the opinion of some noodle on these threads. "If a bucch of retarded people are in a room together, do they realize they are all retarded?"

 

If it's not an option, then it's not stock UNLESS THE DEALER CHANGED IT. Even then...it's NOT STOCK.


And doing a burnout will not detect posi or open. Open differentials can and will lay down 2 stripes at times and LSD (Posi) will lay down 1 sometimes.

Thanks. You're being extrememly stubborn about this. All we are saying is:

If it came that way from the factory, then there WILL be the RPO codes to prove it. Otherwise, no matter what you believe/say, it is not stock. If you DO have a Posi RPO then post it up. The only reason we say it didn't happpen is that GM has no record of it and no one has posted solid proof otherwise. You're getting all defensive saying you don't need to prove it, yet are pissed off because we call :BS: If you've been here long enough, you'd understand that we always have some idiot claiming something that never happened but never backs it up with proof

 

Sounds to me your the one getting pissed off. Ok then if it came from the dealer that way because he changed it isnt that STOCK because as we all know that certainly isnt aftermarket.I never said it was listed as an option, i DID say it was stock. Im not being defensive. I asked for this subject to be dropped already, I said when i get pics ill post them. I know what you talking about when you say people posting bs. I see it sometimes too. Like someone giving fake 1/4 mile times. 400 hp 2.8s etc. BUT it seems to me you yourself posted false information, you said the 2.8s did not come with 342's when in fact they did. Even on this very site it says they did. I notice you get pissed and dont even mention that. So you and doward gave false information out, You with the no 342's in 2.8's and doward with the burn out posi thing. I on the other hand only said my rear was stock. It came with the car like that. I NEVER said gm listed it as an option. Yet im the one who gets attacked? Lets just let it be untill i can get pics, hell, even then im sure someone will doubt me. Have a nice day.

 

Even easier is to just jack the car up in the air with both wheels off the ground. spin one tire by hand. If the other tire moves in the same direction, its posi, if it turns in the opsite direction, its open wheel.

Matt

 

No, a STOCK car is a FACTORY optioned car. Any mods made by the dealer still is not stock unless it matches the RPO.

As for the 3.42 remark, you read that wrong. I was correcting someone who said all 2.8's came with 3.42's, which is false. Some came with 3.23's.....for example look at the 84 Berlineta.

 

Wow.. Did my post wander off topic or what?

 

Do not get a 2.8,3.1, or 3.4 they all suck. I have had a 2.8 Fiero and a 3.1 Firebird. The Fiero only weighs about 2600lbs about 1000lbs less than a thirdgen so it moved alright and handled beautifuly.

I now have a 305 camaro RS, the difference is night and day. My car will squeal tires all the way through second on the 700R4. My 3.1 firebird wouldn't squeal them unless it was raining outside.

A 3.4 isn't much better than a 2.8, same crappy engine design. If you really want a V6 put a 4.3 in. A 4.3 has the same bore and stroke of a 350, plus most parts interchange.

 

My fault on the 2.8 comment, i read it wrong

 

Yeah, dragging this post back to its original topic... if you're looking for a car that's going to beat out other cars without much work, then just get a v8. But I like my 2.8. It gets decent gas mileage, and it has enough power to bomb around town. If you put some money into it and try and fix GM's "design flaws" then, you can pull more HP out of it, and have some fun in the process.

As far as reliability goes, I guess it depends on the year you buy. Mine's an '86, only the second year for MPFI on the camaro. And of course you can increase its reliability by working the whole thing over yourself.

 

i use to have a 2.8 and i would have to say i luved that engine! she never once left me standing and as long as u take good care of it she will last a long time, my friend has a 2.8 carbed firebird with almost 300k on it and nothing ever brakes on it and still runs strong as ever and dont burn no oil. they are great for daily driveing and not that bad on gas pluse they are a 3rd gen so they look amazing. now if u want speed/power or plan on modding it i would say dont get one. those engines are just to small to push are cars.

 

I have to agree on the weight problem. I mean why a thirdgen ever had a 2.5 I-4 trying to push it around, I'll never know. I guess it was the gas crisis or something. I don't know what a fourthgen weighs compared to a thirdgen, but assuming they are close, the move to the 3.8L for a base model was the right way to go.

 

i love my 2.8L motor. I get 24 mpg, which is more than my mom's 2003 2.4L PT Cruiser gets, and my car is freakin' 15 years old and never had a rebuild. I also have enough power to outrun most cars that I meet on the street (silly old honda's that people think can be fast...hehehe), but I also don't expect to beat everyone. BTW, the 305 is a dog off the line. Horrible motor! Once you get up to speed, it's better, but WOW they are slow to get started.

 

Why is the 305 a dog? Does the gearing suck?

 

You are wrong about the 305. My 91 RS with TBI would smoke the tires to second gear. This is with the automatic and 2.73 rear gears.

Some 305s might be bad, but that is neglect not a lack of torque. 305's btw are torque motors, they just run out of steam around 4000rpm.

I have also been in a 305 TPI, that thing would put you in the seat off the line. Alot of 305 TPI engines are getting 24 mpg, so what is the advantage of the 2.8? None. I have seen 305s go past 200k and still run decent, heard of a few that made it past 300k.

If you want power get a V8 or a 4.3 period. If you just want the looks of a thirdgen, keep your 2.8 or 3.1.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I have a hard time believing a v8 in a car that's at least 11 years old is getting gas mileage comparable to a v6, unless your grandma is driving it.

 

I don't want to stick my neck out here.

But.... I can't help to make a comment.

At least here in the valley I live in (kinda small) Third gen's are easy to come by. One of my ex's had a v6 in it, and the right gearing.. man that thing moved. I once had the sped limiter kick in and slow me down. (no I'm not a racer. It scared the crap out of me)

In my opinion..Yes V-6 motors can have some pep..yes they can move in one of these cars with the right gearing.

BUT at least in my town. You can snap up a F body with a v6 just as cheap as one with a v8, performance parts are easier to come by, SBC advice/experience is easier to come by.

Unless you're worried about mileage, find one with a V8. When you go to get go-fast parts you will find they are cheaper and easier. Not only that, I think..think.. they are probably going to be faster stock.

The only thing I have noticed here locally is that the F-bodies with the V-6's and smaller engines seem to be a LOT better taken care of, and cleaner rigs. With less "User modifications". F bodys without user modification are hard to find here locally.

BTW did I hear right when I heard peopel getting 20mpg out of these v8's? thats really not too bad for a 8

 

I got 20mpg on the hiway, with my '77 Firebird, with a Pontiac 354/4bbl Quadrajet setup.

2.41 rear gear, with a TH350, is why.

Same with a 305. I can outrun a stock 305 TBI as it is, and get the same gas mileage, while using a 3.42 rear. If the 305 had a 3.42 rear, it would not be getting the mpg my V6 does - unless it's running on the dangerous side of lean.

 

If you have to have a V6, and want it to make near 200hp, go get a 3.4 and modify that. Much better torque and hp, and anything you would have done to the 2.8 will work as well or better on the 3.4.

The 4.3 would be a major undertaking, on the same level as a V8 swap. You need the V8 pattern transmission, so you might as well swap in a V8. The 4.3 may be based on the 350, but its hardly the same internally; sure, the pistons and rods interchange, but the crank is downright puny. It doesn't have near the durability of a 350.

As far as 305s go...don't get me started. Its a solution to a nonexistant problem. It has a stroke as long as a 350, with a bore size as small as a 265. They usually don't get any better mileage than a well tuned 350, don't make as much power, and are largely responsible...with the possible exception of the TPI 5 speed cars...for the "slow" reputation that third gens have. Sure, they'll burn the tires off just like nearly any other RWD car, but do yourself a favor and buy the largest engine you can afford, whether V6 or V8.

 

v6 are in better shape because they are not performance engines and the owners would not rag on them or race them because they are slow.

 

Well good, since your so in love with the V8 why even bother us poor V6 guys with your one sided opnion. Go hang out in the V8 section and run your smack there.

Matt

 

My 305 TPI gets 25 HWY w/ 3.42's AND it's running rich (open plate, gutted cat).
My friend's 350TPI gets 28 (he has chip work though)

My V6's best=22MPG.



As far as gas mileage, the V6's in thirdgen's have no advantage over the V8's. Fact is, the car is way too heavy for the low power output.

 

Get a 3.4 if you already have a 2.8. Its the easiest logical thing to do.Take the 400 ci 76 firebird, it was 185 hp, you came make a 3.4 200 hp easily. And look at the weight differnce factor. The 3.4 will drop right in, the 400 is not so easy, sure you can say, "yeah but look at the tq difference with the two" but is it worth the troble of changing the springs/trans/etc? And the gas milage!

 

yes it was worth it

and i didnt have to change my springs, tranny nor radiator

car doesnt handle any worse now than it did with the 3.1 in it

as for the MPG, i went from a EFI 3.1 to a carbed 305, fuel economy barely dropped any

i'm sure if i convert back to EFI, which i might, fuel economy will be better than the 3.1

the point presented above is correct, the v6's arent enough engine for these cars

also, i pulled apart my 3.1 to throw in the trash.............lets put it this was, i can write a novel now on why these arent and can not be performance engines

 

As far as MPG goes, I wonder how the sticks compare??? either V6 or V8

 

Stick shift V8 should still get better gas mileage. The v6 has to work too hard to push a 3000lb+ vehicle. I am not picking on V6 people, but advising those who are looking for power to look elsewhere.

If you must have a V6 the 4.3 would be the cheapest route, and the crank isn't too weak because one of the magazines had a 500hp blown 4.3.

Camaros and firebirds are great, I love them all I4,V6,and V8. I would put a 502 in all of them if had the means though. My advice for anyone wanting to do a motor swap, if emissions is not a factor drop a carb'd V8 in. You will not regret it.

 

Depends if you want to race it or not, if you just need a new motor because your old one is beat and you already have a 2.8 then a 3.4 is the easiest option, and yes your right the v6's are not really performance engines, but if your not rcing then who cares? The 3.4 has good power for normal driving.

 

Couple things:

1. If your not seriously racing, a v6 is cool. But if you still race, but like the challenge of pushing a little no-technology engine to its limits, and having fun doing it, the v6 is still cool.

2. Just because you don't have emissions standards, doesn't mean you should spew out nasty s@&t.

3. Just because you don't have emissions standards, doesn't mean gas is cheap in your area.

 

1. Same argument made by people with 305's, hence the reason my car is getting a 350. Its not cool to get less for more. You want something that hasn't been done before go with the knew 8.1 big block.

2. They are removing emmission check stations because they know it doesn't work. Even if we all had no emission equiptment it would not make a difference in the level of pollution. I think they said the ratio was 97% industrial and 3% cars. Think about that and then think about the fact that most people have to rig thier cars to pass anyhow. If you knew the truth behind the emission scam you would be mad.

You can do a TPI or TBI swap and keep all the emissions stuff, it won't make the enviorment any better but it will keep the feds happy.

3. Carbs are capable of getting good gas mileage, I have seen claims of up to 25mpg on the highway with a CCC carb and about 22 mpg with a non cc carb.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hlight=mileage

I did a search and this is one I found that had a post about a guy getting 23 mpg out of a Demon 750 mech secondaries. Anyone who knows carbs knows that is a fairly large one for a mech secondary.

 

Joey1986Z
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 1999
Location: Calhoun, Georgia, USA
Posts: 184
Mostly stock 241,000 mile 305 with Qjet gets 21 city/27 Hwy
I once got over 400 miles on a tank.

I don't see why RB83L69 gets so bad with similiar.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...ighlight=25mpg

Still think the 2.8-3.4 V6 has any advantage?

I do agree that for someone just wanting to get their car running the cheapest way possible replacing the engine with a stock engine would do that. For everyone else you are nuts if you try to build a 2.8-3.4 with the pefromance and mileage of a SBC available.

 

sorry to bring the bad news to you, but the 350 in 3rd gens are not a "performance engine" either. 245hp out of 350ci is laughable, its more like an inefficient piece of **** than a performance engine.

Sure you can MAKE it into a performance engine, but you can do the same with the V6's. But of course its better to you because its a V8, ive seen honda civics that would put your V8 mentality to shame.

Yeah, V8's kick mucho *** when they are pushing at least 350hp, but its a shame to see such a huge *** engine putting out anything less.

efficiency > displacement.

 

Exactly! When some 350's came with only 190 hp its a joke! sure if you have good gears and you go from a stock 2.8 to a stock 350 its a big upgrade but is the stock 350 worth it when you can have a 3.4 at 160 hp and much lighter weight at that without all the trans/etc changes. I think some people think "v8 anything oh yeah!' they dont really look at the potions and the numbers