Im thinkin about droppin a 3.8 turbo grand national motor in my 89 camaro instead of the 2.8. Is there any place that sells the engine or should i just go junkyard hunting?

 

good luck, if you do find one i hope you have alot of $ on hand.

 

that's not an easy swap at all. if you're gonna try it...good luck.

 

www.car-part.com have fun.

 

good luck dude

 

Head over to V8Buick.com and ask the same question in the section called "The Bench" There are several guy who broker in them parts on that board. You'll have 3-4 engines to chose from by tomorrow.

 

You are much better off swapping in a Ramjet 350 , or
a carbed 350 ( fuel system conversion required) than
to swap in a 3.8 turbo motor from a RARE AND VERY
COSTLY Grand National! You will get the same hp/torque
or even more depending on what motor and other
parts you pick. A rebuilt and modified 3.8 turbo GN
motor is NOT cheap! Nor is the swap!

 

how much $ are we talkin?

 

Well, on Ebay they can go for about $5,000-$6,000 for a used engine/trans. with like 70,000-90,000 miles. That price
should include everything, wiring harness too. But, it's rare
to even see that on Ebay.The cars themselves in good condition with low miles can go up to about $15,000-$20,000!

I would start saving your money. You will need to make
some custom motor mount brackets and stuff like that. It should drop right in, since it's still a v6 motor. You should have plenty of room for everything.

You are better off finding a wrecked '89 GTA with the 3.8 turbo motor. * Then you have a complete donor car. You will need to use the trans. too, cause your 2.8/3.1 V6 700R4 trans. will not work! At least with a Turbo GTA as a donor car, you know how things will fit and be installed. Some custom work will be involved, no matter what!

You can also call your local junkyard to check what they have.
Chances are going to be very slim! It's an old classic limited
muscle car. Try looking into those Buick Grand National web sites
for more info.

* Good luck finding them! I have only seen 3 in my
lifetime! I have seen about 10 GNs!

 

"camaro nut said"It should drop right in, since it's still a v6 motor.

 

LOL, so much false info in this thread, lol

#1 The swap is not THAT hard...don't believe what you heard. Is it easier to drop in a small block? yes...but the turbo 3.8 swap is not that difficult...a little more work but what swap isnt?

#2 You won't find a intercooled 3.8 at a junkyard.

#3 Dollar for Dollar I'll take a turbo 3.8 over a mildly built SBC any day of the week...stock heads,cam,intercooler,intake will take you into the 11's.

Your crossmember has the holes already drilled for the 3.8(I found this out when I ripped the L98 out, I was really suprised). You can use a 700r4(not the V6 one you have though). You just need an adapter plate(TCI sells them for like $80)

a few sites for you

www.turbobuick.com
www.turbobuicks.com
www.gnttype.org

Also it's a TTA, not a Turbo GTA

You'd be surprised how easily you can get a GN motor...be prepared to spend some $$$ though(and NO you won't be spending upwards of $6K for one like stated earlier in this thread...)

Hope this helps

EDIT: Another thing I forgot to add..this is NOT a chevy motor, don't forget that...for some retarded reason some people think it's a chevy motor (that was not directed towards anyone in particular)

 

says who?

 

misinformation on tgo? NO NEVER!

 

LOL, nah this site is still really good for tech info, you just have to listen to the right people that's all.

 

Yes, it's a TTA. Sorry! Anyways, I know that it's a Buick
motor. It was in a BUICK Grand National, Regal T-Type
and GNX. Either way, those cars are very rare and very
expensive! ( for a very good condition one with low miles).

Also, you forgot to mention that certain year 3.8 turbo
motors have more hp/torque than others. The GNX,
the rarest Grand National, had the most powerful 3.8
turbo motor. Capable of doing low 12s or lower, stock!

Also, there will be SOME custom work to do, as with
any project.

Dollar for Dollar, An LS1 with heads cam and intake
will beat that turbo V6.

 

LOL, a GNX doesn't run 12's stock buddy...not sure where you got that from. They run low 13's like the TTA's do

Please don't trying educating me on GN's and stuff thanks. The GNX yes was the fastest of them but the actual engine is the same....it's a different intercooler,turbo and chip that makes it faster(among other things but I'm not listing it all). The motor for a swap is the 86-87 intercooled motors which are identical between the 2 years.


A LS1 isn't a conventional SBC...and you talk about the GN 3.8 swap being expensive...times that by 2 for a LS1 swap.

 

Have you read my sig? lol

I kinda...did the swap...you're really not breaking new ground there

 

13.43 stock 1987 GNX. 14.23/14.45 all other GNs (1986-87)

Misinformed sorry! My bad dude!

Also, I have seen an LS1 w/auto trans. swaps done for
around $6,000 total. This was done with every part
needed. Mileage was 1,000 on motor/trans.

You mean to tell me that you can find a 3.8 turbo
motor complete w/harness and trans. for $3,000?

I have seen 1 GN 3.8 turbo motor/trans. swap into
a 1989 IROC-Z. He rebuilt and modified the motor along
with bigger turbo and intercooler with bigger downpipe
and exhaust, etc. for $10,000. He pulls 10s in the
1/4 mile.

Yes. It's a very cool looking car. It would be a cool
project to do. But, very few have done it.

 

Yes, I have....plenty of times for $3K and less

Was that Iroc you're talking about a 'vert? If so yes it was a BADASS car!!!!! The guy doesn't live too far from me actually. He sold it a while back though

 

No, it was a rare two tone hard top. Unfortunately, I never see
the car or the person anymore. THAT was the only VERY
expensive and most customized IROC/Grand National/
Camaro/Buick I had ever seen!

He had put in a Chevy 12 bolt too! I forgot to mention
that's another $2,200. Our 7.5 10 bolts are a LITTLE
less stronger than those ( joking of course! The 10 bolts
can break under high 12s!)

EDIT: GTAs had the Borg Warner 9 bolts right? Thats a
little better!

 

Wait until mine is done

Shooting for mid 11's which shouldn't be hard with the parts I have sitting here

We'll see

 

I did think of a turbo 3.8 swap for my car. Would
probably be the first 1991 RS with one in it! If I did
though, I would definitely rebuilt the motor with all
new high performance parts, bored .030 over forged
pistons, high flowing heads, 1.65 roller rockers, high
lift .550/550 roller cam, BIG FAT high performance turbo
with 3 1/2" exhaust and a BIG high performance intercooler!

How's that? Good? Could that get me in to the high
9s??? That can't be cheap! How much to get from a
stock 14.5 Turbo GN motor, to 9.8 modified?

 

You really don't need a huge cam with these motors.


It's hard to say how much it'd cost...there are soooooo many different combos you can run...all achieving the same goal.

Best thing to do is read some info on the sites I posted above.

 

Would make sense, certain combos , just like any other
motor build up. Ah well, I am going to stick with my
"old school" 350 SBC fuel injection/ T-56 project for
now. I am focused on that, so that's what I 'll do.
I'm aiming for high 12s, that's good enough for me.


I do love the GNs! But, $15,000 for the one I want
is too much.

Do you read GM high tech performance? There was
an article about a GN pulling like 1000 ft. lbs. of
torque!

If you haven't heard of it, I can get you the article
and I can download it on a new tread here. LMK!

 

You can get some pretty nice turbo buicks (1986s & 1987s) in the $8k range. Complete running cars that are in rough shape can be had for $2k-$4k which would have all of the parts necessary for a swap. It takes time and patience to find a good deal on cars and or parts.

 

I already told ya what to do but ya didn't listen to me.

87 GN is right, I was right, most everyone else is wrong to the point of you gotta know where to look and who to ask to get the right deal.

 

Exactly.....I picked up a complete TTA motor included harness(was just missing the MAF sensor) for $2K plus shipping.

Granted, deals like THAT don't come up every day but you can certainly get a GN motor for $2K.....I could probably find 3 or 4 adds on turbobuick right now for a complete motor for that price.

You just have to look.....

 

Well yes you can. Ebay usually runs about 10-12 GNs
at a time.

Anywhere from $2,000 (very high mileage with problems)
up to as much as $25,000 ( ALL original, with very low
miles, near mint!).

I was just referring to buying one in excellent condition
with very low miles, to have as a collector car, NOT to
tamper with! My original dream car was the GN. I
always wanted one that was kept up to like new
since day 1. Hardly driven. But, like I said, since it's
a rare and limited factory GM muscle car, it's a LOT
of money to buy. Worth it? YES! But I would FLIP out
if something were to happen to it. So, I would rather
"customize" my $4,000 value dime a dozen RS, than
a GN, T-type, or GNX. That's just me.

Also, I would recommend that Chevyguy5 listen
to someone who HAS DONE this swap ( fly89gta),
than read false advice and info. Because honestly,
use your head too! If you can fit a 350 in there, you
can obviously fit a 3.8 with a turbo in there! Again,
Some custom work involved, that's also obvious!

I will admit that I gave a misinformed info about
1/4 mile times, but I corrected it. Everything else
is pretty legit.

The only thing now is if you still want to go through
with the swap, and what is your budget?
Another thing about used motor hunting, ask as
many questions as possible! What is the compression
on each cylinder? Can you guarantee anything that
the motor is in good running condition? What problems,
if any, does the motor/turbo have? Etc.


To fly89gta (or anyone else that performed a 3.8 turbo swap),

Did you ever think about doing a tech article on
"How to swap out your stock Chevy motor to a
3.8 turbo GN motor!" ? Sounds like this should be
done, cause I have noticed that this topic has come
up before a few times! Just a suggestion.

 

I'm trying but my free time is severely limited right now

 

Oh. Well, if you ever do, it's going to be a
task in itself, i'm sure. But, it would be a very
cool article!

 

FLY, FLY, FLY! you are way wrong! It costs like 35,000 to do a complete LC2 swap. Why don't you stay on TB.com where you belong


When is that thing gonna be done?(like I can talk, mine is still down). This should be an exciting year for 3.8 turbos at the gmhtp efi series you going this year? Plans for mine have the possibility of changing(things could get ugly quick) as of late. Definately will need a bar for E-town if it happens.


Cheers! Hope to meet up at E-town sometime this year!

Later

 

Not sure if anyone mentioned it - TTA uses different heads, to clear the space in between the strut towers.

You'll need TTA heads on a Grand National engine to make it work

 

not to clear the strut towers, it was to keep the AC system

if you use TTA heads on a GN shortblock the compression will go up...you need a set of TTA pistons too unfortunately

Pete, not a clue to when its going to be done...this cold weather sucks!! lol

 

pretty sure thats not 100% doward, it wasn't to clear the strut towers (given the way any engine sits in our bays) the strut towers are the last things that'll be encountered, what you'll actually run into is the brake master cylinder, along with the Air Conditioning silver thingie (canister?) neway, a comon way to make the engine fit in the bay w/o getting TTA heads (hard to come by in any form) is to simply remove the AC...and suddenly engine fits...kinda like the way an LS1 won't clear with the coil packs on in their stock location, however if you use smaller coil packs, suddenly it'll drop right next to the AC unit, that or ur gonna massage the unit a lil (tad harder than pulling it, or getting the 5.3L chevy truck coils.

 

There's a guy over on the Eastern section of LS1tech.com who dropped a GN motor into his Iroc Convertable. Supposedly an 11 second car. I forgot who it was, but I'll keep an eye out if he posts, and I could direct you to him if your interested in persuing the swap.

 

Actually TTA heads are easy to find...they're just regular 3.0L FWD heads

 

Wasn't exactly sure what the problem was... just knew there was SOMETHING, lol!!

 

lol, you were in the right general area

 

thank you fly89,you saved the thread!!!!!!!you can also look up conley racing.com i used to work for them and let me tell you if you have a problem LAWRENCE CONLEYS crew can set you straight as well as set you up with a drivetrain(if available)can be built,if you plan to retain the a/c you will need to use the fwd 3.8 heads as used in the tta...go for it i am sure you have seen what the lil 3.8 is all about.lastly no 350 ramjet will hang with a mildly modded turbo 3.8,POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO,hmmmmm:hail:

 

Since the 3800 SeriesII is supposedly a descendant of the 3.8 family. Will the TTA mounts allow you to mount a 3800 Series II motor in a thirdgen?

 

I don't think so...it's a totally different motor.

 

Yeah the Conley guys know their ****

 

How does a grand national sound compared to a SBC? The V8 rumble is something that is important to me and I wouldn't be happy replacing my blown 305 with a engine that sounds like a 2.8.

 

The sound is total different, not like a SBC...

 

You will NEVER get any V6 to sound like a V8. Honestly,
I would rather go with a SBC, because of my "old school"
ways and the sound of a V8 is like nothing else. Also,
I would rather have ALL motor and NO turbo.

BUT, a 1986-1987 3.8 turbo rebuilt with the right high
performance parts,high performance turbo and intercooler
is nice! A used stock 3.8 turbo is not worth putting in
your F body. You WILL find yourself ripping it out later for
rebuilding, especially high mileage ones! Not only that,
a tired 3.8 turbo motor will only be around mid-high 14s,
when a tired 305 TPI does about low-mid 15s. Not worth the
all the time and effort just to get .5-.8 tenths quicker,
when you can do that with the same 305 TPI cheap!


Do the job once and do it right the first time. You
will be glad you did. And it will be MUCH faster than
stock! Save about $5,000 to rebuild that 3.8 and
get a new turbo setup.

 

Ummm, 130 or so pounds is NOT considered a big power
to weight ratio. Even people with LS1s ( 110 lbs. lighter
than "old" 350) in third gen F bodies, I STILL would not
consider that to be a POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO! Does
it help, yeah, but not much! .1 tenth at best. It's all
in your head.

Naturally aspirated all the way. NO cheating!

:lala:

 

Guess a V8 is going back in then, I may put a 3.8 turbo in my 2.8 car later.

 

Don't get me wrong. 3.8 turbos that are highly modified
are worth it. It's just that their will be no V8 rumble.

A Ramjet 502 would be nice! You can get high 10s with that!
Or a Ramjet 350 for high 12s. There I go again, I got
SBC/BBC V8s in my brain. I can't help it!

 

Jesus christ...where do you get off thinking it takes 5K to rebuild a LC2 motor....


It doesn't even cost half of that.....some new bearings, rings(if the block is in good shape you don't need new pistons).

It's gonna cost me less than a grand to rebuild my TTA motor, a bit more if I work the heads.....

I don't understand people thinking it takes mega bucks to make these motors fast....

Hell the stock turbo can take you into the 11's for christ sake...

 

LOL!!!! Now THAT'S a funny statement.

Please, don't compare a 3.8 to a 305, EVER. Anyone that would buy a high mileage motor and drop it is retarded.

If you think a 305(unless heavily modified) has a chance against a 3.8 you're sadly mistaken...