Bear (sp?) with me ... there's some random thoughts coming out and it might not be 100% clear or flowing when I type this...

The passenger side of the motor has oil on the plugs. It fouled the #1 plug and I realized that I put 2.8L plugs in it, and the cheapest ones the parts store had at that. I thought that might have been the problem, so I replaced them with Bosch plugs for a 3.4L (different part number, dont know if it makes a difference)... then put one of those blue "performance" cap/rotor deals on it (long story on that).

It seems to be doing better, but I checked the plugs again this past weekend and they have oil on them again. The driver side plugs are all perfectly fine.

New rings gapped correctly and all, shop put new valve guide/seals in the heads. Hi volume oil pump with 50psi idling warm. Did a compression test on all the cyl and every one of them had between 185-190. We'd had a problem in the beginning b/c we'd forgotten to put a galley plug in so the passenger side of the motor was not getting oil to the top end for the initial break in period (driving changing RPMs 12 times in gear or whatever).

WOT it smokes blue, and it burns 1/2 quart every three weeks or so. It doesn't smoke on startup, or at least not much. Slowing down in gear it also smokes a bit.

Is it possible for the oil rings to not be broken in properly, but have the compression rings doing fine... and keeping compression up while letting oil by?

I was thinking that it might have had something to do with the slip up with the galley plug.. b/c the passenger side of the motor was not getting oil during the initial break in period. But I don't see that effecting the oil rings...? But if it was the valve guides and/or seals... wouldn't it smoke on startup? Or maybe just the guides or seals are not correct?

The motor has ~8300 miles on the rebuild.

I'm so lost right now.... anyone have any ideas?


-Bud

 

Only thing I can guess is maybe your right intake gasket broke/leaking, and getting oil in that way.

If pvc, or major blow back, I belive it would have oil on ALL plugs.

I found that acdelcos part number on their standard plug is same for all 6/60's. I knew ked said they are different, but my sorces show same

 

I was looking around on Advance Auto and Autozone's website and saw different numbers.

Bosch 6224 for '88 2.8L plugs on Advance Auto Parts.com
Bosch 4208 for '95 3.4L plugs on same site.

Figured it couldn't hurt to use the 3.4L plugs anyway.


-Bud

 

Just a thought... is it possible that there is too much oil in your engine? I was driving my dad's truck once when the oil was overfilled and I was getting smoke all over the place and it wasn't that the engine was bad itself. Problem was fixed after an oil change. Just thought...

 

I don't even think we used the full 4.5 quarts or whatever it's supposed to be according to the book. For some reason the dipstick said it was full before then. I wonder if 2.8L and 3.4L oil sticks are the same.


-Bud

 

Hum, looks like the 3.1 uses same plugs as 3.4, but I guess 2.8 uses different then 3.1/3.4, interesting.

 

Try going up a heat range; GM played with heat ranges for the 60 degree v6. If you hear pinging after trying a new heat range, go back to the old range.

 

you might wanna check the valve covers, maybe it wasn't installed right and it's leaking from the seal. That happened to my car too, and I chanegd the valve cover gaskets and it runs fine with out a drop of oil leaking.

 

gotta be a valve seal. might not even really be the seal but the hi volume oil pump is filling the valve covers quicker than it can drain back into the pan. So the seals are in a bath of oil, instad of a slash. SO they drag oil down with them.

Why everyone says not to run a hi volume pump, it can suck the pan dry before the oil can return. You must work on oil flow return to use one. as all the oil usually ends up in the valve covers.

Adjustable oil pumps are good but hi volume pumps are really a suckers part. [sorry dude] as it can cause more problems then it helps.

You will never find a hi volume pump in an engine I build.

And adjustable one, yes.

 

Interesting about the hi-volume oil pumps...I think I read something about that in the past, but it was after we'd built the 3.4L and put it in. I have a mechanical pressure gauge in my 97+ console and at redline it's around 90psi. ...but if it was the oil pump wouldn't it probably cause it to be equally bad on all the plugs instead of just the passenger side?

Going home for the summer at the beginning of May. Can't wait to get some real chunks of time to work on the car again.

Thanks for the feedback so far guys.


-Bud

 

Well not all of them would leak, only a flaky one. Id say for any rebuild 1 out of 10 valve seals will be flaky. They are just mass produced parts on machines running out 1000's a sec.



PSI and volume is different. You could have 90psi and move 1 gph or 90 psi and 50 gph. Volume is how much it pushes, psi is just the pressure it pushes at.

90 sounds high to me. Might be OK and our gauges do peg at 80 but I don't see a reason for it. 20-40 is plenty.

volume and psi are related but not married together.

 

Def going to have to look into it when I go home for the summer. I just got my car aligned today (KYB GR2 stuffs and new strut mounts last weekend), and the person that followed me there said it smokes blue pretty much ever time I accelerate. Not bad, but the smoke is definitely there.


-Bud

 

Did you have the heads rebuilt before they went on??

The 3.4 I dropped in my s10 puffed blue on startup. The heads I put on camaro engine were rebuilt, no puffing on them.

 

This comes up so often. It came up today at V8Buick.com

"By no means put a high-volume pump on your 350. I did this on a brand new motor about 300 miles ago, after some oiling issues I tear it down only to find out that the "high volume" pump had put so much pressure to the cam that it wiped out the bearings. This also happened to a good friend who only had 3 hours of run time on his 455, same thing happened. Put on a booster plate, new gears, and shim it correctly and you will get all the oil pressure you need. Take it from someone who is rebuilding a motor for a second time after only 300 miles, DONT BUY THE HIGH VOLUME PUMP!

__________________
Chris Lott
BPG #1154
1970 Buick GS455 - Diplomat Blue, Pearl white interior
1970 Buick GS350 - Aqua Mist, Pearl white interior and white top
1970 Buick GS350 - Seamist Green, Met. Green interior, white top"

 

That Buick response forgot to mention that Buicks have a very poor oiling system in the front timing cover, too.
IF the cover used for oiling system is in poor shape, you'll have problems. Low or high volumn.
Thanks for saying that if ya increase oil flow capacity, a high volumn pump is a good thing. As I am running a Melling Hi Volumn pump & I have extensivly modified the oil flow passages on this 1970 LT-1 350 I'm building.
Now to the 3.4
I think the oil rings may have gone bad.
My 3.4 in Firebird gives a puff of blue sometimes upon start up.
I haven't pulled those plugs since they went in a couple of years ago (bosch spec'd 3.4 plugs & just platimum series). My car does use oil about what every 1,000 - 1,500 miles. I also have a very slight leak & couldn't care anymore. Easier to add oil. This 3.4 I'm running til it dies & I expect that to happen in a many years from now.
My "guess" I think valve seals on the cylinder head.
How "oily/wet" are the plugs? Extreme, Black, oil cooked onto the plugs?

 

The heads were cleaned up by a machine shop (and milled... at least one was warped) and they said they put the "better" valve guide seals on them. Blue with gold rings. Springs are the stock 3.4L ones.. no idea how many miles on it... if that might matter anyway.

The plugs on the drivers side are perfectly normal. But.. the plugs on the passenger side are black (dry on the tips except the #1 cyl ... which was the one that had fouled out... was wet all over) and wet oil is all over the threads.

Early on after we rebuilt the motor.... the TB was black inside also. If that helps any. I'd asked about it way back, and I got the response that it definitely should not be black after that short about of time (1000 miles I think?).

The intake gaskets were brand new.. but the intake stuff had to be taken off to see if the cam was in decent shape after putting the galley plug back in that was left out ( ). My dad actually did the galley plug b/c I was running around town trying to find parts and stuff.... I think the same intake gasket was used again, but I am not positive.

Is it possible for the oil rings to be shot, but still have good compression (185-190 on every cyl)?

Probably going to end up taking the hi vol oil pump out this summer....


-Bud

 

You missed the whole point of that post. poor oiling was not the problem, never was or will be. Too much oil was. [Everyone who builds a 350 used the V6 timing cover anyways, its a mute point] Its what commonly happens to them all. To much pressure forced the cam against the opposite side of the bearings and eventually spins them. Sound hard to do but its not. To much oil flowing into the cam bearings takes up all the room on one side while the other is starved for oil. The cam actually run off center from so much oil pressure.

Hi volume oil pumps are for suckers. But so are chevy 350s. hehehe

The little Buick 350 that could
450 horsepower at 5400 rpm. 441 torque at 4300, 446 at 5000 rpm and over 400 at peak HP. On stock iron parts.

 

Gumby thanks for explaining further!
I helped rebuild a V6 in a 1980 Pontiac Firebird.
We had trouble rebuilding that oil pump in the cover. The solution was the better oil system.
I know Buicks can do very well.
Need I say 455 Stage2, 1970 Buick GSX 4-speed with 3:36 gears?
I'm very proud of the little Chevy 350 LT-1/Z28 (1970 version) sucker I'm building!