yes i searched.

backstory: my clutch needs replacing. it is actually slipping when i drive.

my car is a daily driver that i ocasionally have fun with. i need a clutch that is long lasting even when beat on. i don't think i want a full on race clutch. but i don't realy know. my brother has a crazy clutch in his 240sx. you have to slip it into 4th its so stiff. what a work out.

questions:
what is the best clutch for me?
do i need to replace the flywheel too?
can i get an aftermarket light weight flywheel?
if i do that do i need to replace the harmonic balancer?
does my engine have a harmonic balancer?

thanks alot for the help

 

Yep your cars Harmonic balencer is behind the crank pulley. You dont need to change it. You should have your flywheel resurfaced at a machine shop. When i changed my clutch i put in a Napa clutch and it works good. It hasent slipped yet and its not stiff. I think it would be a good clutch for you, Ive played around a lot on this clutch and it still grabs great. Just be sure to break the clutch in.

 

centerforce dual friction the only way to fly, lightest clutch pedal i have ever felt and it grabs like a ****

 

I seem to remember somebody telling me that dual friction is all hype. Anyone want to share their experiences? I'm not saying they are a waste of money because I don't know. I would like to know for when I have to replace my clutch in 10 years time.

 

well its the only other aftermarket clutch i've tried but compared to my stock one its excellent, got it for cheaper then stock replacement too

 

Yeah, i got a CF dual friction in the malibu and it does grab like crazy. But for a replacement that mostly sees street driving the Napa is a good cheap alternative

 

break it in eh? how do you break in a clutch? also, is there a lightweight flywheel i could get. those allow for much faster change in RPM.

 

you don't want a lightweight for daily driving, the heavier flywheel holds the higher rpms as you shift

 

i usually tap the gas while clutching anyway. but about this "breaking it in thing. whats the deal. i never hea4rd about how to break in a clutch.

 

There would be some "break-in" time for the clutch. The pressure plate/flywheel will have different surface textures than the clutch plate, so it would be a good idea not to go to hard on the clutch until the surface textures match. It's a similar idea to breaking in your brakes, although I'm not sure if you can glaze the pressure plate/flywheel because I seem to recall the clutch plate having a different material than brake pads.

 

I am not sure which brand it is. Brute force maybe???

I got mine at Murray's auto. like $100-120 for the whole kit.


The only problem I had was the throw out bearing. Go ahead and take your car apart first. Then make sure and match up the throw out bearing with yours on the car.


The one in the kit was nothing like stock. And it caused me big problems but it only hurt the pressure plate.

But after I found out. Murray's gave me a whole new kit and they replaced the throw out bearing in the kit with a Federal Mogul one off the shelf that match up with my stocker.

One in the kit was cheaper and a tad smaller. While the original one was beefy.


The clutch its self is great. First test drive with two people in the car I got scratch in all 4 gears. [believe it or not, just don't tell me]
My buddy who was with me was in shock. He just kept saying , "did it just???" Yep with each gear.

I would not bother with dual friction unless you had well over 300hp.


You should get your fly wheel resurfaced but thats up to you. Mine looked fine even after 200,000 miles of use so I left it alone.

Stress cracks are the big thing to look for. Tiny little crack all over the surface of the flywheel.

 

For clutch break in go by what the instructions say.
It will most likely sound some thing like this: to engauge the clutch easly and let it slip a bit, but enough not to let it heat up to much so the materals and reseins can finish cureing. You want the the new surfaces to seat on each other also.
You will have to do that over the first 100 miles or so.
What you don't want is for the clutch friction surfaces to glaze.

 

centerforce says 500 miles of city driving to break in the clutch

 

500 miles, ouch that sucks.

 

so pretty much any non duelfriction clutch made by a good brand.

about this flywheel thing. i really like the way my brothers car drives with his lightweight flywheel.(drove it again the other day, clutchwork is not as bad as i remembered ether) feels like a racecar. i am almost positive i want to get one. i will need to replace the harmonic balancer right?

 

86 is still externally balanced so I am not sure if you can go lighter.

87 plus has weights inside the motor, so the flywheel weight doesn't matter much.

 

Man, oh man. I get to drop the tranny again! I think I agree that the Throwout Bearing in the kit is crap. I installed it correctly (or at least like it was when I removed the tranny the first time. It has a plastic sleeve which seems suspect at best. I went to install the transmission and the Throwout Bearing wasn't centered over the pilot bearing (I had the tool in and noticed that the trans shaft wouldn't pass straight through where the bearing was (I centered the clutch disc by feeling around the rim under the pressure plate) Should I be centering the clutch disc by placing the tool through The throwout bearing? Anyway, I got everything put back together and dropped it back down bolted on the shifter (thank *** I left the console off!) And when I went to put her in gear. . . EEEERRRR! The clutch wouldn't disengage. **** on me. I think the Throwout Bearing wasn't installed right. Anybody got any ideas?

 

Yep if it looks like plastic its junk. get a Federal Mogul one.

Its easy to install it wrong. You probably stuck the bearing into the fork, thats wrong. It goes on the front of the fork into those clips.

Hooking it up wrong will over extend the system, making your salve cylinder go south and it doesn't disengage.

Don't ask how I know.

Yea Id take it apart quick before it cost more in parts. Its not that hard of a job. I was able to do mine alone with the car jack up high enough.

 

Well, I'm definitly interested to see what is going on inside the bell housing. I think the fork may be in wrong, too. I clipped it onto the ball stud so that the spring on the fork hooks under the shoulder of the ball, but like I said, when the bearing is on the fork the bearing is not centered over the spring fingers and pilot bearing. It's like it is off to the left and lower (if looking straight on like you are the tranny). In order for the tranny to pass through, the bearing was sliding out of the fork a little. (See pic) I think I will post some pics before I button everything up this time! I should have trusted my gut on that one. Got in a hurry and now I get to do it all over again.

 

Here's the pic. I thought that I had the fork on the ball stud correctly but now I am thinking that this is my problem. The bearing is on just like the pic, which is also the way the old bearing was installed so I am kicking my own *** for bolting everything back together with the bearing sliding out of the fork. The arrow shows where the bearing moved to accomodate the input shaft.

 

so you don't think i can put a lighter flywheel on? even if i get a lighter harmonic balancer with it?

 

Yep, time to take it back apart and do it slower. I did the same things.

 

No I don't think so but am not sure 100%.

 

dang. if anyone else knows anything else about this nows the time.

 

problem is, even if they made the flywheel out of lighter material. You would have to add the weight back. As the engine is balanced externally. It has to have those amounts of weights to keep it in balance. Now on the front Id run a rattler if one was made. It self balances as needed but does make some noise..

 

Well, Its probably good for you that I finally looked at this post-

I prototyped the DualFiction clutch for Mike Hayes (owner of Centerforce) about 15 years ago in my Vette. I still had the original prototype Saches pressureplate until about 6 months ago when I gave it back to him on trade They use to sponsor me when I autoX'ed the Vette years back.

A stock flywheel in a Corvette is 26lbs. I to this day run a 40Lb flywheel in the car for enertia and speed shifting when my leg gets tired. The new pressure plate he sent back (He's in Arizona now- use to be local to me in Midway City Calif) is much softer than the original monster I had in there. This one jokingly feel more like a Toyota but still holds the pressure. I have been known to sidestep this car at 7K and it stays there. Max8500rpms on a SBC with 540 rwhp.

With that said, you DO NOT want to go a heavier flywheel in these small V6 motors. We do not have the torque to go up, yet alone hold the r's with the weight of the stock flywheel. You will have better gains with engaged motor revs with a slightly lighter flywheel. If I had a stick in the Camaro, I would lighten the flywheel about 3 lbs. It will give you more HP to the rear wheels.

 

like i said centerforce is the way to go

 

I hate to even say it but does any of these 6s 2.8 3.1 3.4 have enuogh power to even need a fancy cutch???

Is anyone out there with a stck new clutch find the engine over powers and spins it???

That is where I see no reason to spend the loot. Now of course fancy parts are fancy. But I can't see a need for the extra cash or I would of gotten one.

The debate would be easily set if D has bad wheel spin with his stick turbo. I doubt even with a turbo the stock type clutch will hold up great.

Course its is only money. If you have the extra money to burn.
Id go for it. For me the extra money didn't doesn't seam to out weigh any gains.

Now if it was one of them 350hp 6s Id consider a fancy clutch.

 

Take 2, don't ask why. I am not allowed to edit post.

-----------------------

I hate to even say it but does any of these 6s 2.8 3.1 3.4 have enuogh power to even need a fancy cutch???

Is anyone out there with a stock new clutch find the engine over powers and spins it???

That is where I see no reason to spend the loot. Now of course fancy parts are fancy. But I can't see a need for the extra cash or I would of gotten one.

The debate would be easily set if D has bad clutch spin with his stick turbo. I doubt even with a turbo the stock type clutch wont hold up great.

Course it is only money. If you have the extra money to burn.
Id go for it. For me the extra money didn't doesn't seam to out weigh any gains.

Now if it was one of them 350hp 6s Id consider a fancy clutch asap. Maybe once at or near 250hp id be looking for more grip.

 

Thats actually a very good point. I'd have to strongly agree with you there. I would look more into lightening the drivetrain rotation mass. Info for anyone that might not know, This is what I did to make my little 2.8 so fast in comparison- but with an automatic.

 

I love my little 2.8L and it'll scoot but yeah, I don't think she's puttin' out enough torque for a super-beefy clutch. I just got the standard chinese thang but went for the better throwout bearing, those in the kits are sub-par. My clutch (stock) did begin to slip, but that was mainly due to glazing from a Distrubutor O-Ring leak that was dumping oil into the bell-housing.

@Vsixtoy: What exactly did you do that "lightened" the drivetrain?

 

I'm pretty sure vsixtoy has a carbon fiber driveshaft.

 

CF driveshft-4lbs, stock I think is aprox 14? can't remember off the top of my head.

My tranny is fully custom inside. It was fitted a 30spilne v8 imput shaft and has a custom lightweight 9" torque convertor still built with lower stall.

ALuminum rims.

edit- forgot the lightweight racing lugs 25grams each- I took 2 whole pounds off the rotation mass just in lugnuts
-----------------

I do however have two things that make more rotatoin mass than stock-

one is the racing version Auburn Posi, as opposed to an open diff.

The other is the larger rear Wilwwod rotors 12.2" opposed to the stock 10.5" rotors. The wilwood are actually lighter, however, they have a larger diameter centrifical mass (rotation weight).

These are both very minor though compared to the three savings above.

 

for me i picked up the centerforce df clutch for 225 canadian, the "el cheapo' clutch was 190 canadian. so it wasn't really an option, i went for the quality part

 

UPDATE:
well it turns out my clutch was not sliping back then, it was a mis-diagosis. NOW its slipping. if i slam the gas in 2nd the car will rev up to like 5k and crawwlll. then get grip and start moving. its rediculous.

i have abandoned the flywheel idea, too much work. but i am getting a centerforce dual friction clutch. going to go in to clutch doctors tomorow and see whats up.

 

also, is it difficult to do your own clutch. i feel confidant i could drop the tranny but i have never aligned a clutch before. should i have a shop do it?

 

Ask them for the labor price
Then decide if you want to experiment and have that extra time alloted for the mistakes
Then renegotiate the trany shop price!
PS this way, it is more expensive BUT
It'll always work right!
PSS
BUY THE REAR MAIN SEAL AND ALSO THE REAR CAM SHAFT SEAL TOO! NOW!
AND ALSO SCORE A NEW Crankshaft input bearing for tranny nose.

 

The clutch is reasonably easy to replace. The alignment isn't hard. Just stick a shaft of appropriate diameter (sama as the diameter of the splines on the tranny input axle) into the clutch disc while it's in place on the flywheel. Then tighten the pressureplate and install the rest.

If you mess up the aligment, then don't worry you wont f-up your car. The only thing that will happen is, is that you can't get your tranny in place. The input shaft will not slide into the clutch and flywheel.

 

sounds easy enough. (famous last words)

how long should it take if i replace that extra stuff karl is talking about, plus new tranny mounts and crossmember.

 

Tranny mount and crossmember is nothing

Will add a whole 10 minutes to your job (if that)

I don't know about the rest though, I've never done it (or even seen it) on these little V6 cars...

I know it wouldn't be too bad on a 350 with a Powerglide or TH350 behind it though, so I can't imagine it getting too crazy on these...

I'd like to know, because I want to go lightwieght flywheel and a slightly beefier clutch on my 3.1

whether the motor is even strong enough to spin it or not isn't relevant to me... a good aftermarket clutch just feels better to drive and grabs alot better, period.

not to mention the fact that the price isn't that much more than a stock replacement anyways.

 

The "extra" stuff I mentioned takes a whole 3 minutes!
Serious, it takes no time at all & it's so mandatory to replace these seals!
Pilot bushing takes the longest to install!

 

good to know. i have a knack for turning a 3hr job into an all day job.

how long will the clutch job take the avarage person?

also, are there some type of extra cool heavy duty transmission mounting hardware i should get, or just stock replacements, the amout of wigle in the crossmember has always bothered me.

 

Inspect your clutch fork while it is off. Long story short... I split mine, and couldn't fully disengage the clutch for the last 60 miles home. was a really pain every time I had to get it back into first gear. Turn car off, shove into first, lurch car with starter till she started again. I got pretty dam good with shifting with out clutching by the time I got home.

One other note, they don't make the forks any more. So if you find one at the scrap yard grab it as a spare.

 

I also need a clutch in mine. Looking for something thats decent, Will hold some abuse and grab hard. Anyone ever used stage 1 by centerforce? What did you end up picking? Not trying to hijack the thread or anything

 

In this pic you'll see the rear cam cover.
That's where that Gasket goes.

 

i don't need to pull the engine for this or anything do i? and also, how long will the whole job take? ballpark.

 

I showed ya the location and the rear cam cover in a picture. The fact that my engine happen to be out of body at that moment, doesn't mean you pull an engine for a clutch job.
How long depends on your talents, tools and skills.
That's why I suggested find a tranny shop to work with ya.
I recently spent $200 having a new auto tranny installed.
Took all of three hours. And I did some other things while up in air, too.
Worth every penny I spent for the secure knowledge of someone else to check any work I'd done.
Including the lifting and easy access using hoists, lifts, tranny jacks THEY HAD within reach.
It's called cheap insurance.
And think how easy it is to check out your front suspension "problems" while its up in the air.
I suggest ya spend time price quoting tranny shop shopping.

 

they actualy let YOU work on the car in the shop. do you know a guy who works there or somthing. the insurance that bussness has does not cover things like that (most likley)

also i ment the seal not the clutch job (pulling the engine)

also the parts places keep asking me if i want the 6MM or 11MM rear main seal.

 

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/571084/8

I got you covered like a jimmy hat Tons of pics, im in the process of that

 

wow. that is alot of pictures. took a look around in general. you have done alot of stuff to the car. i like the tinting.