Overclock, you know who I am as we used to chat when i owned the V6 so please don't lock this thread, as long as knowone bashes and it stays on tech then I don't see why it couldn't be left open, just when I started getting some input & it got locked. Oh and fbodtreck lets continue with our discussion, what turbo would u think is the "right size" for the 3.1? I want TomP to post also he was a big help when I used to browse these forums way back when.

Anyways devian, post your resposne .

 

I cant speak for everyone but this is how I feel about moding our V6 cars;

60 degree V6 is underpowered in F-bodies and cost more to gain like 10 hp where could gain 40 hp with same mod on a SBC, so why would I even mod my 60 degree engine?

Answer: I have fun with my car, and Im interested in seeing the limits of v6 in thirdgen and keeping it all street legal. I use my thirdgen as a daily driver, and keeps gas and insurance down as well, and doesn't break down often so fairly reliable and easy on the wallet maintance wise.

Why don't I do a V8 swap?

Answer: I plan on buying a V8 car for max performance. V8 swap into a V6 is fairly extensive and can get expensive, especially if not a fan of carburation and want EFI.


Sure doing 10s in 1/4 mile would be fun but is not very practical to drive everyday. Not everyone is a speed demon. Some days I want to go fast, other days I just want to cruise and enjoy the scenary.

Yes V6 60 degree thirdgens are slow, but so are alot of other cars. Not every car has to be fast. No matter what always going to be another car faster than yours. I'm more than happy to keep up with most cars.

Some would say civics are waste of money. There are slow ones and there are fast ones. Afterall just cars. I dont like them, but I still think its neat seeing them modded, even if they still aren't that fast, kind of how I feel about V6 thirdgens but like them.

I just enjoy what I have, its my money, and ill spend it as I please on what makes me happy.

I dont care if someone elses car is faster than mine for less money, so what your car is faster than mine, you want a special sticker for it - Lol, so chill the Fuc$ out.

 

excellent point my friend.

Thats why I got the V6 i needed somethign that didnt get 10 mpg lolol. But I can tleave a motor unmoded and thought a turbo setup would be excellent.


Le tme get this int he open, this will not be a power mtor by any means, this is just something I want to do. I will be running like 5psi of boost if that, I have my fast cars, this will be my custom.

 

I dont have my power car yet, but I totally agree. I'm just having fun with what I have.

 

Great emotional post and all (sob sob), but I thought we were keeping this thread tech? j/k

Ok Sergio, here's what you need to do if you are serious about turboing that 6. Find some time on your next day off and come with me to my "turbo man" hook-up to pick up my turbos, and have a chat with the man. He's built all the fastest street cars in tucson and he knows turbo's like nobody's business. I spit out some random turbo numbers and he knew exactly which turbos and what car they came out of and what size motor they'd be good for before I even finished speaking. He also has a garage full of rebuilt T3s in various trim sizes, all the little parts you need, and a bunch of other stuff you're going to need. Your mission should be to piece together a turbo setup with as many free/next to free part as possible. For example, on my stang I'm using stock H pipe flanges and building an exhaust down pipe from there instead of spending $$$$ at a shop for some crazy downpipe fab. I'll bet you could snag some V6 manifolds in the junkyard for next to nothing to start playing around with and visualizing the idea.

 

I already have it visualized in my mind, I know that doesn't work most of the time until its actual hands on time but I also drew out the design and showed u. it looks like it would be good so far. Since my setup will be a remote turbo instead of right off the headers, I will guide the y-pipe into the engine bay and once in the right spot attach a turbo flange onto it, from there I can finish the piping. This will save a bunch of $$$ seeing as how I won't even be using headers. Before everyone gets all huffy puffy about speed and power, this is a custom setup, not a power motor, I just want a turbo and the wissspooo that goes with it .

 

Chris,

Have any advice for supercharger instal for 3.4l?

 

Well if it were me, i wouldn't even consider a blower on a small displacement motor, I would go with a medium sized turbo have fun running with the TTA guys. But if you really wanted to go blower, you could buy a paxton centrifugal universal tuner kit and then have a shop make the appropriate intake piping. I'm sure custom supercharger brackets and belt routing would be involved, but maybe someone has done this before.

 

Might be to "secretive" to talk about Chris...

Can anyone here actually have a serious conversation?? 76 views and no posts? I didn't know the V6 section was full of trolls now.

oh and Thanks tech smurf for the info you posted at the end of the last thread, it's a race for the turbos ! I've said it in the SW section and I'll say it again, it never fails, every thread I make seems to get locked lol.

 

Well, considering I missed out on the last 'discussion' I feel I have QUITE a bit to say here.

First off, yes, you can turbo the car for cheap. Techsmurf's hovering around $100, and I was running boost for $350. I've currently got over $800 into the current setup now.

Yes, you can get a .48 a/r 50 trim T3 for new/fresh rebuild for $250-$300. And you can bolt that to your 2.8L motor, and blow a lot of hot air. Guess what? V6 needs more air than a 4 banger - and a 50 trim standard T3 won't even feed my buddy's '99 GSR to 8k EFFICIENTLY.

Anyone can slap a turbo on a car, and go. Not anyone can slap a turbo on a car, in kit form, run 7psi, and MORE EFFICIENTLY build power. Kits will be running just under $3k, and after Dyno Day today, I will probably open up the group purchase - as long as the dyno doesn't show a need for more tuning, for reliability issues.

And for the guy that won't buy the kit if it's over $1000 because my-friend's-uncle's-step-cousin's-milkman-runs-a-turbo-shop-and-HE-said-he-can-build-it-cheaper-so-I-don't-HAVE-to-spend-$3000-on-it-and-you-suck-anyway-so-there - no offense bro, but do a search on these forums. You're not the first to come in here, all 'oh, I'm gonna turbo my car for teh cheap!!!'. We've seen it, and guess what - until I ACTUALLY started on it, and got it running, NOBODY CAME THROUGH. Techsmurf was right behind me on that one - I think we got our setup boosting like a week before? But then I had all sorts of fun - busted oil pans due to bottle jacks and stupid ideas being just one of them. Anywho, fact is, you will not turbocharge your car for less than $1000, with new parts, period.

"Well we ford guys can take a set of headers ($500) and a turbo ($500) and there you go!"

NO. What you've got now, is a set of headers and a turbo. What the heck do you plan on connecting them with? Bracketry, so you don't crack the tubes? Fuel management? Turbo control (wastegate, BOV, turbo timer, etc)? Timing management?

Doesn't seem very well planned to me.

And yeah, 5SIZ, I took your little comment as a freaking insult. Unless you've got a mandrel bending machine, a gas shielded MIG, a lift, actual CAD/CAM software, and your own CNC machine, I seriously doubt you will come near the quality of work that Vortex and I have created for only $1000.

7psi from a small turbo, and I should have right around +100rwhp. You do that on 7psi from a SMALL turbo, and then we'll talk.

Hell, did you even CHECK the list of everything you get for your $3k? We're talking turbo, intercooler, intake piping, filter, new MAF, new injectors, custom PROM, exhaust tubing, Y pipe, bracketry to hold the turbo, and be sure to never crack the tubing, all ceramic coated.

The comment about the turbo Honda? OMFG. B SERIES MOTOR. THEY BUILD THEM BY THE THOUSANDS. It's called mass production. What Vortex and I are doing here, is literally from scratch, hand built kits. Yeah, that costs more. Sorry, that's just how it works.

A supercharger on a 3.1 isn't a bad idea. Sorry if I'm not the whole 'secretive' kind of guy - DevianB, what style 'charger you looking into? Centrifugal or roots?

What's the 'omg TROLLS' ordeal now? Sometimes people simply don't have anything to add. So they look, read, and no offense to you buddy - but reading your posts, I'd avoid it too. Only problem, I was insulted, so I feel I need to have a say.

If you want to know the details of my setup, simply do a I've not kept anything a 'secret' other than the explicit details. I'm not going to tell you exactly how I've got my PROM done. I'm not going to give you a freakin' angle by angle measurement of my piping. I haven't bled and sweat on this FOR 2 YEARS for someone to simply come along and ****** my work.

Anyway, gonna change a couple things in the PROM, then heading for Maitland.

Oh, and 5SIZ - the race for the turbos was already held. I won.

P.S - Techsmurf, I apologize if this was worded a little strongly. 2 guys come in here and start talking about how they can do so many things so much better so much cheaper than me - You want to know what my markup on the turbo kits is? $100 stinking bucks for all my time. The rest of all that is going into materials, labor, supplies, parts, etc. I really feel I'm working my rear off to help this community actually put out some REAL power (when was the last 60º V6 you saw OUTRUN AN LS1 from 45-80mph?) so it kinda pisses me off when someone ****s on my work.

 

I had a huge reply to your comment but after thinking about it it's not worth postng.

It's official, the V6 forums suck now, I'd have beeter lck discussing this in the power adder section.

 

Doward... chill. Think about it. Before you started your kit, did you really understand why turbo kits were so expensive? I know I didn't. "Oh, wow, plumb exhaust in/out, intake in/out, water in/out, oil in/out.. this can't be *that* hard.... right?"

... a few weeks/months.. years now.. later... yes, we do understand why.. and only by actually doing it can someone with my attitude respect it... and Sergio's attitude on the whole concept looks *alot* like my attitude when I started out.. so don't bash him too hard for that. I give him a 50% probability of actually getting it done, too. He does have the resources. Woohoo! I can start a southern arizona turbo V6 club! All two of us!

 

Gumby, you came into this thread and started a problem, not the other way around. If ChrisFormula oversteps his bounds, I'll handle it, not you. You screw up again in the next 48 hours and I'll ban you first and refer the problem to the administrators later, so they can decide if they should unban you and place you on probation. You're on my last nerve. CHILL.

If you want to hate on each other, stick to PMs, folks. All that this results in is mass-deletion of posts and me getting closer and closer to going postal on someone, even if they do feel they're right.

 

lol, yeah, ok, maybe I was a little harsh. I was simply pissed off at the comments made - whether I mistook them or not.

Just got back from teh dyno! See new post!


btw - Yes, I did know why turbo kits, especially custom ones, were so expensive. I spent a solid 6 months researching before even STARTING to mock up the kit. Research - it helps.

 

I think under 3k is reasonable for a working kit.

 

How old are you people?
Doward knows his stuff. It's nearly* proven science to him (j/k Doward, i kid i kid). His setup makes good power, looks good, and is reliable. Most custom setups are none of the above unfortunately. If you have a relavtively stock V6, and you like the idea of 103 mph trap speeds, Dowards setup is the ONLY way to go (unless you build a bottom end and juice it hard cough-Jerriko-cough ) The people who have done the most development on these motors DO get upset when people insult them, and rightly so. There are a handfull of people on this board who have done alot of development on these motors (Doward, Dean, Jerriko, AM91, Oilpan, Tech, et.al.)
Respect those with seniority. ANyhow, Turbo your motor, take notes from your buddy. ANd I hope that you are making good, stable boost. Let us know when you get it done, and don't be affraid to post and get flamed, that's the way of the net..unfortunately.

 

I'm 21. 103mph trap speeds? I'm looking for 'em... I want triple digits next time at the track!

 

I'm just posting to thank everyone who has helped me out at these forums..

And that even if you don't like doward's price because you think you can make it cheaper, still respect him for the time,effort,money and patience he put into improving the 3.1 engine. And him producing a kit is a big help for people (like myself) who might not have the knowledge or time to create it, So I'd like to thank him for what hes doing. Even if you don't like the price respect the man for what hes doing.

 

Completely doable. You know those turbos love the cold, hook that intercooler up with some dry ice and you're good to go.

 

I'm 22, Chris is 25.

How bout u trek, whats your age?

"wow alote of people posted here at once lol.

 

Getting flamed is the least of my worries lol. It's fun to **** people off. Getting my threads locked becaus other people bash pisses me off, i know it contradicts itself.

ANYWAYS, Like I said, im not looking for trap speeds, im not looking for 100hp gains, im not looking for power period, the point of this modification is to have a turbo on a 3.1 liter and be able to drive it around town. that's it. Please get that through your head people. The only person to be helpful so far is Tech and that is through PM's.

 

When did I disrespect him!? when I said I can make my own turbo setup for less than his kit?

*** maybe its the constant heckling you guys get by the V8 people that make u all so tense, but just because I own a V8 doesnt make me the enemy, I'm here for the V6.

 

Well, if that's the case, they make these things that bolt into your exhaust if all you want is a whistling sound (j/k). If you are honestly thinkning of turboing your car, there is no easy way. The reason for turbo is more power, otherwise nobody would do it. You could use crinkle bends, stock manifolds, a turbo/wastegate, and a FMU (dunno about how to install those though). But then you also need to worry about feeding oil and water to your turbo to keep it lub'd and cooled. You have to worry about charge temps too, not just for power, but because of detonation (blowing up).

 

I understand what you mean, of course more power will be gained from putting a turbo on it, and when I start tuning it for best gas mileage the gain will only improve, it's a no brainer once I have the car running good with the turbo theres no other way to go but "upgrade" but I'm not doing it for that how many times do I have to say I want to do it to learn more about turbos and turboing a car? Did it ver come to you midn that maybe I might have a twin turbo setup for my hotrod when im done witht eh V6? I rather experiment on the 6 first and learn the ropes.

As a matter of fact I will be using stock manifolds, mandrel bent pipe etc.

Whats there to worry bout feedimg oil lines, not a hard thing to do at all. And I don't have to worry bout water if the turbo doesn't have a water setup.

So whats your age?

 

Then there is the plumbing it in part. Curving the pipes back towards the front of the motor (I assume you'd want to make use of the empty space). The pipes would almost have to go under the K member (the DP will probably have to). Then you join them together and place a flange for the turbine to rest on (and some sort of bracket to keep them from moving). Then you plumb the compresor into the intake (duh). You'll have a DP to worry about too, like I said, it'll probably run under the K member. Then geting that pan tapped for a return line (a PITA, you'll have to drop the pan). The feed line comes off the sender I think, you'll need a braided line or copper tubing (brakeline works too). The water lines will need a pump to circulate coolant (I'm sure there's another way, but we're doing it the "Sub-3000 dollar" way. Then after the mechanical side is plumbed in, and everything is lubing/compressing/and cooling right, you gotta tune it. The SD setups will REQUIRE a chip (no way around it). You'll need to purchase a chip burner, software and a few PROMS (you ain't gonna get it right the first time). Oh, and you'll also need data logging software. Assuming you can rough in a tune, you'll actually be able to start the car without it backfiring or having a meltdown from detonation. It will have many flat spots in the powerband, and you will have knock issues, you'll have to do more tuning. If you're lucky, you can do the Fabing in a week (assuming you don't work). Then the tuning, if you have done it before, you can probably get it drivable in another 4 weeks. Then MAYBE it will pull at WOT without detonating.

 

I'm 21, I've been a fulltime auto mechanic for over 3 years I've worked on just about every type of car (short of exotics of course). I don't claim to be a master mechainc, I'm still young, and it's a lifelong learning process though. All those mandrel bends are gonna be expensive (60% of the cost of turbo "kits"). The turbo is the cheapest part of a kit...unless you count fittings.

 

Hwere to start..
Then there is the plumbing it in part. Curving the pipes back towards the front of the motor (I assume you'd want to make use of the empty space). The pipes would almost have to go under the K member (the DP will probably have to). Then you join them together and place a flange for the turbine to rest on (and some sort of bracket to keep them from moving). Then you plumb the compresor into the intake (duh).

I already have my plans for plumbing, I will be using 2 3/4 piping to give me a little more room, never know when you need a 1/4 in of clearance lol. anyways the drivers side pipe will wrap around like a V8 Y-pipe and when it meets with the pass. side it will make a 90 degree turn towards the front of the car from there if I can re-rout enough stuff will guid it up and put the turbo somewhere around the area the TTa's have them.


. Then geting that pan tapped for a return line (a PITA, you'll have to drop the pan). The feed line comes off the sender I think, you'll need a braided line or copper tubing (brakeline works too).

Nothing a hole punch, an appropriate AN fitting and a bit of JB weld cant do, and removing the oil pan is not necessary. Braided ANline is about 40 bucks for 20 ft. I will only need less than 10.

The water lines will need a pump to circulate coolant (I'm sure there's another way, but we're doing it the "Sub-3000 dollar" way. Then after the mechanical side is plumbed in, and everything is lubing/compressing/and cooling right, you gotta tune it.

Thats if the turbo is also water cooled. wich formy app is so not worth it.

The SD setups will REQUIRE a chip (no way around it). You'll need to purchase a chip burner, software and a few PROMS (you ain't gonna get it right the first time).

Planned on that.

Oh, and you'll also need data logging software.

Got it already.

Assuming you can rough in a tune, you'll actually be able to start the car without it backfiring or having a meltdown from detonation. It will have many flat spots in the powerband, and you will have knock issues, you'll have to do more tuning.

You actually think it's gonna be that bad...TechSmurf is still running on the stock chip for petes sake.

If you're lucky, you can do the Fabing in a week (assuming you don't work). Then the tuning, if you have done it before, you can probably get it drivable in another 4 weeks. Then MAYBE it will pull at WOT without detonating.

ok thanks for the input.

 

I am planning on doing my own welding. and I will be buying 1 or 2 u shaped mandrel bend pipes from my local hot rod shop, then cutting out the approriate bends to make it curve where I need it to, once it's all pipes correctly and fits snug I will run it, then one day I will take it apart and take the pipe to my mechanic friend and he can make me a 1 piece pipe with all the necessary bends.

 

Techsmurf is running on the stock chip becasue he has a MAF system, you DON'T. MAF is easier with turbo, you are already metering incoming air from the suction side of the compressor, therefore the fuel is gonna be added accordingly (up to a point where the injectors are maxed out). A speed density setup will be more difficult to work with because of the tuning.

 

Actually, no... stock calibration really bites for any kind of turbo. The injectors max out super quickly, the LV8 maxes out instantly under any real boost.

5SIZ, your best bet is going to be a FMU, and a BTM. OR run 6psi, run an FMU, and retard your timing to 6º.

 

thansk for the info about that guys, so the grand prix code is from a DIS motor? Well thats not a good thing, I'm gonna have to find something else to work with then.

I was thinking of upping the injector size to maybe 23-24lbs. would that help with the whole fuel starvation thing.

 

depending on boost levels, maybe 19lb/hr would be safe.

 

 

I wanted to join the 5.7l bandwagon for some time, and was actually planning on doing it soon, but after seeing Doward's dyno results, I am deeply reconsidering. Dowards turbo 3.1 puts out almost as much power as the crate engine I wanted!

So my point is; 3.1s can be fun, and as said above, buy a V-8 car if you want a V-8

 

Well I took care of step one today. Now I need to get my hands on a 90-92 DSM blowoff valve and it's on to plumbing...

As for specs. Garret T3 .42/.48 50 trim, barely any shaft play, spins freely and most importantly the blades are in good shape. Cost of turbo: 1hr. of elbow work and $35.00

 

That looks like it is definitely going to be too small... too lazy to look up the flowmap to prove it though

If nothing else, what you have is a good chip in the barter system.. I traded off 2 turbos before I had one I was willing to work with in my hands.

 

Well people use two of them on TT 5.0 apps so I figured maybe one would work with a 3.1, but if it is too small they sell for about $120 on Ebay haha. I rather not have turbo lag and when i have it all setup it will never be shifted above 5k.

I don't really want to go with a CT 26 Supra turbo, so the other choice I have is the Garret T3 super 60 Turbo, .60/.63 AR unless soemone can recommend another one.

 

No.

 

Well, the nice thing about garrett turbochargers is you can build the system around it, and if it does end up being too small, upgrading later isn't likely to be difficult... but seriously.. that thing is likely a factory turbo from a 2.5l mopar (dodge caravan, etc.)... and turbochargers are almost always undersized from the factory (ferrari, lamborghini, etc are the possible exception here) (too small == less boost @ higher rpm == less horsepower == better reliability == less warranty work == less lag == customer that thinks car has good get-up-and-go == more sales.. manufacturers have every reason in the world to undersize)

 

Sergio... before we end up trying to explain ourselves to death, do yourself a favor. Forget anything anyone has ever told you about turbocharging -- hit up a major bookstore and buy this book (Maximum Boost by Corky Bell)

Read it from cover to cover two or three times. Sleep. Read it again at least twice.

Then remember everything anyone has ever told you about turbocharging and use your newfound knowledge to rule out the BS (usually 90-95%)... we simply cannot fully assist you unless you've got the principles down, and we can't explain the principles anywhere near as well as this book.... or we're quoting or paraphrasing from the book.

 

It came out of an 87 2.3liter Dodge Daytona, I pulled it myself.

It does look pretty tiny though lol.


Yes I am on step ahead of you, I'm going to buy a few turbo books this Friday and I will read them cover to cover, only way to understand a turbo is to become the turbo...or something like that .

but I really appreciate your help dude.

 

You need at least 40 lbs/min for basic street usage. And at least a .63 A/R turbine.

 

Super 60 it is. Time to put the turbo I got on ebay, and buy a super 60 with the profits.

 

Damn I'm good.

 

You need at least 40 lbs/min for basic street usage. And at least a .63 A/R turbine.

 

Go read the book (and learn how to read flow maps in the process) before you pick any more turbos out of the lineup or Doward's going to pop an aneurism

As funny as it might be to watch, you really want him to be alive to help.. I haven't kept up on my research, while that's all he's been doing for over a year now...

 

Surely not! I'm quite certain Sergio realizes that the T3 in his possession flows 26 lbs/min, and the Super 60 is only 32 lbs/min, and that NEITHER is big enough for his usage!

 

roflmao. cant someone just say hey dude use "insert type of turbo here" and youll be fine."

 

see? (he's not as lazy and apparrently has a much larger collection of flow maps at his fingertips)

 

Funny, there is at least 10 mustangs from turbomustangs.com running .42/.48 50 trim Daytona turbos and they are all faster than 11.90s. I'd say thats a tad better than 'basic street usage' or maybe my standards are too low..?? It goes to reason that if two of those turbos work fine on a hot street 5.0 8 cylinder, the much larger 60 trim .60/.63 SVO/merkur/turbocoupe turbo would work perfect on a 3.1 6 cylinder.