camaro350man

Allright guys as you all know i have had so many problems non stop with my car. I'll go down the list here because I'm getting tired of them and have no clue how to fix them The first major problem that i have is that my exhuast manifolds are glowing red hott at night when I pop the hood. No clue why I put in a straight pipe hopping that would cure the problem, however it didn't. I have a horrible misfire also with my car. When i look at the wires, i can see spark going threw them when i rev it up. Not grounding out anywhere though, Just it light running threw the lines, is this right? I actually i do see some sparl grounding and its on the bottum where the plug meets the spark plug, it grounds on the manifold. The plugs and wires are not cheap ones either.

Now I also get horrible gas mileage too. Like 120 per tank And hesitation but that prob the misfire. I have been told I'm running lean but i doubt it if I am getting that horrible gas mileage. I hav eno cat, straight pipe so its not that. Any help would be great. I also have leaky injecotors, sent some out to cruizin performance already. Waiting on them. Not sure if related though. Also seems to have a lot of power when its cold. Thanks again

Project: 85 2.8 bird

dude, dude, dude,duuuuuuude. those plug wires are FUBAR'd. get new ones. NOW!!!!!!!!!! sence the cat is gone & the manifolds are still glowing... I wonder how lean you are running. Most/all cars feel like they pull more/faster when cold.

Spend teh$65 and have a dealership run a diagnostic on it.

camaro350man

Its not throwing any codes out I'll get some new plug wires soon for it. I'm getting horrible gas mileage, how could i be runnign lean? Could I be running extreamly rich maybe? I'm so lost

Crayz9000

About the codes: your O2 sensor is likely burned out, otherwise it would have a constant error light from that mess you have.

You're running extremely lean: the manifolds are glowing since you're dumping fuel (not enough power to the plugs). Replace the cables (they're cracked, probably old?) You probably should check the plugs while you're at it and make sure they're not fouled up. (I'm betting you hear a lot of popping -- that's post-burning of unburned fuel.)

But that's just a preliminary thing you should do before anything else. Replce those and check again. If it's still fscked, then take it into a good dealership and let them diagnose it.

camaro350man

Plugs and wires are less then 6 months old. O2 is also new. Why would i ben running extreamly lean, what causes it and why would i have horrible has milage? Really lost

Project: 85 2.8 bird

what voltage is your tps reading?

camaro350man

i'll check it also, I just put a new one in to, to make sure it was not it, so it should be good.

Gumby

Did you cut the cat out yet????

KED85

For all the effort ya gonna be putting out (personal guessing) spend the time to take it to someone for their answer.
I'll bet you have a crack in your distributor that is making this problem spark happen.
AND THE FACT THAT your manifolds are glowing, just maybe, the coil coating is melted due to that statement.
And weak spark is not allowing fuel to be burnt, but instead, it's being "dumped down the pipes".

Gumby, his "cat" is already gone. Give a glance again over his original thread.

Gumby

Well yesterday in this thread.
he said he was gonna cut it off today, so......

I don't see any threads started by him that were updated today, saying he cut the cat off yet for sure.


causing bad mialege? MakeitQuick92RS

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=281580

camaro350man
Senior Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Belchertown MA
Posts: 685
Car: 1988 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 2.8 Lt
Transmission: 5 Spd
I think I have to much back pressure in the system. i'm chopping the cat off tomorrow so i hope that fixes it. Its missfiring like crazy now



Report this post | IP: Logged

03-05-2005 02:03 AM

camaro350man

Sorry guys my apoligies. The dist. cap and rotor are new along with the coil. The manifolds were getting hott before it even started missfiring So ya i will diff replace the plug wires soon. I was thinking about my injecotors Thanks again guys

KED85

I put in a straight pipe hopping that would cure the problem, however it didn't.

I hav eno cat, straight pipe so its not that.

Lifted from original posted thread.

My guess of cracked coil caused by overheated exhaust manifolds still stands.
Now why, that overheated manifold problem, is another guess.

camaro350man

Fist off my car has been mantained and babied for the last two years since I have had it. I do not half A** anything on it. If a part goes wronge, i replace it right. I know the injectors are leaking so I'm going to replace them as soon as I can. As i stated before. I still attend high school and work 40 hours a week as an assintant manager, doesn't make to much money. I need the car to get to point A to B. So can't really do all that much. I plan on throwing new plugs wires in soon and new plugs. That may help for now. Just doesn't make any damn since. Anything else I can try? Thanks

TomP

[edit- erased original suggestion]

Wait- you've STILL got the leaking injectors? I thought you replaced them? https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...postid=2042576

Start saving $10/week until you can buy new injectors. I just went on ebay.com, searched for "3.1 injectors", and found a ton- there's even a set $40 buy-it-now. The description says monte carlo but they'll work.

Or go to a mall parking lot and steal a set.

OR pull the rail out, pressurize it, and see which ones are leaking. Then maybe you just have to buy one or two.

camaro350man

I had some but they were not the right type I got some and i'm sending them out to cruizin performance soon

camaro350man

Somone told me if they got that hot already my valves are shot, is that true? Wouldn't that car run like crap if it was?

KED85

Let me toss this out.
Recently replaced my muffler.
Wife smelled exhaust fumes and eventually I did too.
When my muffler came done, we saw CHUNKS of Cat Converter in the muffler. Went up stream, yep, my CC was empty.
Something caused my CC to break up and cause an exhaust flow problem, blocking my muffler.
PERHAPS your muffler is also clogged up from your CC falling apart and that is causing your manifolds to glow so hot.
Remove your muffler to see that answer.
I also maintain well my vehicle. This CC breakage blocking my muffler is my first ever seeing this happen.

camaro350man

Interesting that you say that, when i took off the orginal cat before I put this one on, it was empty. I'll diff look into that topic.

Anyone know about the valves? Are they now shot since it got that hot? Wouldn't the car run like crap if it was? Thanks

Gumby

Id un hook your exhaust either where you removed the cat or just in front of the muffler and go drive.

Gonna be loud but not like V8 loud with no mufflers or super Harley loud so you will be ok for a drive or two.

Try it out.



And yea, your valves could be burnt. Causing the bad mileage. But thats easy to check. Just do a compression test. Make sure the throttle is wide open during any and all compression test.

Do a dry test on them all. Then do a leak down test.

Pour a teaspoon full of oil or two down 1 plug hole at a time, as you test each one. Run the car over till ya hit a peak compression. [It will be higher from the oil] Then watch and see how fast it leaks down.

The oil will help to seal off the rings and pistons. [Its why you put
it in there.] So any lose of compression is through the valves.

You know you got some leaky valves if your losing compression.

Note that even on the dry test you might notice lower compression from the leaky valves. So its why you do the oil n leak down test. That test them. If ya got low compression dry. and hi and slow leak down wet. You know the valves are good and its the piston ring slop leaking.


Though you need a normal PSI gauge which is easy to rig.

Normal compression gauge has a 1 way valve to capture peak.
It won't work for a leak down. But can be made for like $5.

camaro350man

I'll have to try that. HOw bad though would the motor run if it has bad valves. I was told it would shake and run roughly, noy rev smooth at all. Mine revs smooth just no power. Idles awesome too

KED85

I "Quote" seriously doubt you have damaged exhaust valves.
I "quote"
NOW STRONGLY suggest ya remove your muffler & "see"
CC STUFF will be right at the front of the muffler as you remove it
AND THAT would DEFINETLY contribute to lack of power, as in NO EXHAUST FLOW INHIBITING the power (LOL!!!!) being put out by the mighty 2.8!
Serious, I never saw my example happen, it happened right infront of my eyes as we dropped muffler off rear!
I think you are getting closer!
PS I WAS TOLD DON'T TOUCH THAT STUFF IT'S POISINOUS

camaro350man

Thanks man, I wasn't thinking they are shot either. My car runs good and if they were it would run worth crap I will look into it this weekend
Any other ideas? Or symptoms of bad valves?

KED85

I have seen burnt valves.
Think CAKED ON GOOK ON THE VALVE & YA CAN'T SEE IT UNLESS YA TAKE APART THE HEAD, all way to removing spring to remove valve from cylinder head.
Think burning something in the stove/oven so bad that ya need hammer & chisel to remove the damage.
I doubt you have burnt a valve.
Plan on new muffler! And just get a good one now, instead of "shopping". Cause if ya muffler is bad & ya just replace it, your car may be whole new ride now instead of awaiting the delivery truck.

Chrome

Leaky Injectors/No Spark - Knock, Knock! Your SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICSPALIDOCIOULY RICH!!!

I'm suprised you haven't asphyxiated some pedestrians on your way to work!

Headers glowing is a sign of extremely rich and/or retarded timing...

(Afterburning in manifolds - probably due to cylinders not getting spark therefore unburned fuel is combusing in the manifolds...)

I'd replace your /Cap/Rotor/Wires/Plugs... Check the timing. (Remember to disconnect your EST.)

Read this article on injectors:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=282803

Running that rich your cats probably plugged so I'd remove it and throw it far far away!

Might need a new O2 like somebody said above.

After that get back to us and let us know how things are going.

And please don't buy Autocrap parts. Get GM/Napa or maybe even Advanced (decent).

camaro350man

I do have a new cap and rotor. I will replace the plug wires tomorrow and see if that helps with the missfiring. I'm going to get the new injecotrs in within the next couple weeks. I just don't want my valves to be toast

camaro350man

Okay, still mis fireing like crazy, i don't know why? I will put new plugs in tomorrow and see what happens. Maybe someone can answer this odd question. Even with the new plugs, i can see the spark running threw them and more when i rev it up. If I touch it, doesn't shock me and its not grounding ont he motor. Just can see white runing threw the wires. WHy is this? and is there a problem here? I'm lost and getting sick of the car?

KED85

COIL!

camaro350man

Well i spark plug wires I put on came off. I was in a rush noticed this morning when I popped the hood. But still doesn't explain why you can see spark going threw the wires. Could the plugs be bad? I doubt it because if they were bad then the car wouldn't run with ****. It runs awesome with everything connected right other then the red manifolds. I'm wondering if this is related some how? Thanks guys

Doward

What wireset did you get?

Believe it or not, the 7mm Duralast set from Autozone is hella better than the craptastic Advance Auto set.

Also, AZ doesn't screw you around with your lifetime warranty - you just go in with the old, come out with the new.

What plugs are you running?

Go to Autozone, get the Duralast lifetime wires, a new coil, and 6 new AC/Delco spark plugs. Should run you like $60 (approx $20/for each item)

Replace them all together - NOT THE PLUGS< THEN THE WIRES - REPLACE IT ALL AT ONCE.

DO NOT FIRE THE ENGINE YET.

Make sure the spark plugs are snug, then go 1/4 turn more. (Don't know what the actual tq specs are - this is what I've always done)

When you are doing your wires, pull the distributor cap. Check for carbon tracking. While you are at it, grab the rotor, and see if you have a lot of distributor play (as you pull up/push done on the shaft, it will turn slightly. If it's just a little, it's ok - if it's like 1/8-1/4", time for a distributor rebuilt - go to CarQuest, get a Distributor Shim Kit, and rebuild that distributor. Check your ICM, and pickup coil, while you are at it)

Distributor = check
Cap/rotor = check
plugs/wires = check
coil = check

Disconnect the EST, set it to 10º BTDC.

Rehook up the EST. Check timing again. At 800-1000rpm, it should be like 25º or so.

Ignition system = good. You've replaced it all, whatever problem is left, is not in the ignition.

I'd say you are running rich, and have an exhaust leak. O2 + fuel + hot manifolds = blowtorch (and glowing)

Get a new O2 (again, $20) and get those new injectors in.

camaro350man

Thanks man. I just put new wires in her yesterday. I picked up some from napa. They are not that snug so I'm going to work on them tonight when I get out of work. I also picked up some plugs this morning that I will throw in tonight. I picked up some standard AC delco ones. The cap, rotor, icm are 2 weeks old. The dist. was rebuilt 6 months ago, its moves a little, but nothing bad. The coil is also about 6 months old. Should I still replace it? I wasn't going to if I didn't have to. Any other locations I could put it rather then the stock one to keep it cooler? Thanks for all the help.

Heres what i got in my car, let me know if its okay.

Plugs

Wires

KED85

See my coil in the back on firewall?
REASON WHY IS THAT IT AIN'T BY EXHAUST!
Your heated up exhaust CERTANLY COULD HAVE "melted" protective shield of the coil WHICH EXPLAINS THE LIGHTENING ACTION ON THE PLUG WIRES!
HOW I KNOW THIS
SIMPLE!
On my 1974 Corvette, I had a BAD COIL WIRE WHICH WAS SHORTING OUT, MAKING LIGHTENING STORM ON ALL PLUG WIRES!
I only notice the "short coil wire" by accident.
I replaced the coil wire, made better more secure coil placement, problem solved. PS I DIDN'T REPLACE PLUG WIRES TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM! AS THE PLUG WIRES WERE NOT the problem. Short from coil was the problem.
A new coil is such a cheap experiment! AND RETURNABLE! as all ya do is click/clip and test, then done. IF not the problem, ya got a "good coil" anyway on your ride now. And return the "new" coil!

camaro350man

OKay, I ended up replacing the plugs and wires. Hesitation is gone along with that horrible miss fire I had. The plug wires were crap from the heat. Manifolds are still however getting red There is still the lighting I see. However its not like a cracked wire type of spark. Its not grounding anywhere on the motor and its not missing. You can just see the spark running threw the wires. Very odd. Should I still pick up a new coil for it? Also is there anything I can get to keep the stupid plug wires cooler? You drilled holes in your car to mount the coil there right? And the wires reached fine that plug into the top? The coil is only 6 months old that is in it too. What do you recommand I do next? Thanks

KED85

I made my bracket for mounting the coil from "thick aluminum".
Drilled two holes on the firewall, used nuts & bolts.
Yes, everything reaches fine.
BUT you still must solve the hot manifold issue.
And inserting new coil (click/clip) to remove lightening bolts thru plug wires is simple test. If not work to remove the lightening, RETURN THE COIL! and search elsewhere.

camaro350man

I'm wondering if the coil comes with anything to do it? If I replace the coil should I just get a better one then the stock ones for $15.00? Not sure what would work best on the motor. I thought if I coil went bad then it just dies. Why would it makes the spark plug wires glow? or see energy flowing threw them? Thanks again

KED85

These coils put out close to 40,000 VOLTS!
IF there is a "crack/weak" area, the electricity will "escape" thru the weakest link/path.
Since the electricity is going ANYWAY thru the plug wires, any more "SEEMS" to NOT be captured within the plugwire housing.
Get the cheapest EXPERIMENT you can quickly score to test the coil theory!
Meaning GET THE SIMPLE PROBLEM SOLVED THEN ONTO THE CAUSE FOR THE HOT EXHAUST MANIFOLDS!
Seriously you could be causing LOTS of damage by delaying solutions. That damage can run into mucho more dinero for solution!
I hope my theory of cuase is in your favor.
I've used ACCEL STUFF FOR OVER 15 years by now & it's great stuff.
The one coil I used to start my fFirebird after the original coil died, was an ACCEL COIL with over 10 years & 100,000 miles on it!
ACCEL MAKES THE BEST STUFF!
Good thoughts for the simple solution!
PS I've bought lots of new parts, only to have other reasons for cause of "new part failure". Just swap in the new coil, no remove the old, until ya get good results!

FAST RS

I had a problem like that before oddley it turned out to be 1 bad sparkplug the plug was a few months old put a new plug in the light show stopped dont know why it caused that i did everything including new wires and it was a .99 part that caused it.

camaro350man

Thanks guys. I will oder the coil tomorrow. I'm just going to get a OE one for now. Will this adaptor work to mount it where yours is? (KED85) Coil Adapter

Thanks guys

FAST RS

I replaced my coil when my car did something similar and it didnt help.

camaro350man

Yeah. I replaced all the plugs and wires and everything is pretty much new including the coil. Really odd

camaro350man

I bought a new coil for my car. Its just a stock one from advanced auto. I mounted it like Ked85 has his to keep it cooler and out of the heat from the exhuast. But I can here a ticking coming from it. Sounds like something is vibrating in the car when your in it. Not noticable when driving though. Just at idle at a stop, Do they usually tick? And are they somehow suppose to be grouned to something? The car runs fine, but there is a ticking noise coming from it. My plug wires continue to glow at night, so I don't think the coil was the issue. I have no clue what to do now. I have changed everything I can think of Theres no missfire just glowing plug wires. Any ideas I should try now?

camaro350man

Ked85, did you mount yours upsidedown? Mines right side up, I made metal brakets for it.

KED85

I mounted mine upside down.
Does the car idle better?
Clicking noise "could" also be from fuel injectors, too.
You have a wire grounding problem somewhere.
The clicking noise is from the electricity passing thru to the chassis! I know that sound. That's the sound that lead me to find me having a grounding issue on my coil in my 1974 Corvette. And the noise as you said is most prominent at idle, too.
I KNOW, check your coil set up wires again. Perhaps those exposed wires are now the weakest link.

camaro350man

My wires look fine the way they are. i doubled checked them but I will diff look again. The one that connects to the top of the coil, the connecting bracket is broke, but it sits on the coil just fine with the black one. I have to go to the junkyard sometime and get another one I still have the old coil in the car, just not connected. I'll connect it again and see if the clicking is there, if not, then what? How would it ground to the chasis? Thanks again

KED85

The Mighty Carson Players Present:
"CORMACK THE MAGNIFICANT"!
Answer- "Somehow".
The question?
I'll connect it again and see if the clicking is there, if not, then what? How would it ground to the chasis?

PERHAPS & MOST PROBABLY you have stumbled upon the final clue you need to solve your problem. Good luck!

Electricity escapes thru the weakest link.
Think weak/worn out water pump/heater core hose.
What eventually happens...
Yep a water leak.

molopaa

iTrader: (1)

Check all of your grounding cables. The one from your alternator to your battery and also there should be at least one on the engine block.

camaro350man

Wait, so you think its the wire i was talking about that goes to the coil? The gray connecting one? And can i just get another connector and splice it in?

Also I have to keep replacing my ICM all the time. Like every two months, the car won't start and if i replace it, fires right up. Could this be related?

I'll double check all the grounds to, not sure if thats it though. I know theres a big one thats connected to the engine which is fine.

molopaa

iTrader: (1)

I remember someone saying, that they had to replace ICMs quite often and it turned out to be the alternator going bad. Might wanna check your alternator.

Don't really know what to say about the wire splicing.

camaro350man

My lights do dim when I'm at idle with the headlights on and the heater fan on, everything going. It draws alot of power, is this normal? My motor is also stock if that helps

KED85

Stop with the frowns!
You're going thru normal teething pains of POS (Previous Owners Syndrome).
That was ME that went thru SIX ICM's! Because of a "rebuilt alternator"!
And it was a very good rebuilt unit too.
BUT LUCKILY I Heard the engine run & heard the "noise" took a screwdriver for secure answer to problem and yep alternator was bad. I loosened belt, pulley came IN & OUT!!!
My Alternator was giving high energy voltage spikes to cause my problem.
"Stock" motor means "nothing" but one MUST get correct alternator and they ain't cheap nor "rebuildable" by us!
I paid like $115 for a lifetime alternator. It's a 105 amp unit. Stock rating.
Again your wiring is with you not us. We can only offer clues/suggestions.
Doctor, time to again operate & look for the cause. BUT you are getting closer.
AND it could be the WIRING to alternator is "wrong" or ?
BUT you are there not us & keep looking. AND the wire?
All ya "gotta do" to get rid of sparks on plug wires is "MAYBE" just move it enough for the test to see if.....
Keep at it!

camaro350man

I'll check my alternator on wednesday my day off. Can I just splice into the gray coil wire to put on another plug that connects to the coil. Then that will take care of that assumption. Could it be the ground cable that connects to the alternator? I may bring the alternator to advanced or something and have it tested. I do keep going threw ICMs all the time. I'm narrowing it down i hope. Thanks for all help