this topic is deader then dead dean, no one who actually owns the product will back it up with numbers, because they realise they are going to be proven wrong, the maker couldn't care less, and has **** poor customer service if he's not asnwering this question, and needs other to defend a product he made.

lets not even get started on the price

 

creator never answered my question as to it coming with a chip also. Few others did, but not creator.

I'd like to see temp readings of stock and aftermarket after x time running.

Would like to see dyno results of the intake ITSELF with no custom chip. We all know gm lacks in the prom department, and adding any other mod to the engine truely needs a re-done chip. Let alone 5-6, or more mods.

 

OK I've been trying to avoid this now insane thread whereas certian folks want to beat a non-issue to death. Fact is the intakes outflow, and out preform everything out there, hot, cold or whatever. They are also lighter than the stock allunium intake by a few pounds. They are not over priced by any means, if you think they are you have never fabricated anything this complex in for a limited market.
There is a very long build thread on these intakes on the PFF Fiero forum and you won't find anyone complaining that they don't deliver as stated. We thought this group might want to take advange of what these intakes can do and thus offered to make them work on your V6s too. With so many people here interested mainly in bashing something new rather than looking at what the numbers (dyno, flow bench, etc) and users say, it's no wonder it took what, 20 years for someone to dare to offer a better intake for these engines. To those that can read dyno charts and also realize what a non-issue this whole heat thing is, this vent was not meant for you.

BTW: On PFF this week, someone posted dyno numbers of 207 HP running one of our intakes on a modified N.A. V6 and in there words, the 200 HP N.A. barrier was finially broken. In addition, they did it without N.O.S. or insane compression ratios.
The intakes have been on the street for a while now and they work great if that's not good enough for you, go build an alluminium one. I'm not going to respond to this heat non-issue anymore. For those that want to keep at it, just keep ignoring the fact that they work great have at it.
Some folks put their money and time on the line to build something better and share with others, while some only trash-talk things.

 

V6sucker,
Yes did a run with the stock chip (on MAtts' stock engine) but I honestly don't recall the numbers etc. I do recall that Troy made a bunch of changes after seeing what the stock chip did. We did well over 20 ($$$) dyno runs tuning chips. That said: If the stock chip had worked good enough to insure that you'd be able take full advantage of the intake, we would not have to burn and provide new chips to our users.
Also; if you want to get the best results, we need to know what mods you have and or some wideband numbers after you install the intake. Before anyone jumps on that last statement; no you don't need to get wideband numbers, but if you're engine is really way-out-there modifcation-wise, it's a smart thing to do.

 

thank you francis, you answered all our questions with a rant about us bitching about something YOU believe to be a non issue, since your not gonna back your overpriced intake, and decided half way was good enough (steel not aluminum) i for one will never touch it.

great customer service buddy, keep up the good work

 

Has nothing to do with backing up the numbers.. I'm trying to get it installed... you know I will post whatever you want, however you want it. The only others with the product are fiero guys... most who never come on this board. Most who have probably been chased off by the back and forth we have going without anyone having the thing installed on an fbody to really say. There is so much bashing w/o even letting them get them or I get the numbers first.
Francis is probably wondering why he bothered when you guys are spending more time trying to poke holes then just giving us a chance to answer your questions... funny how some things he and I posted never got answered. he has tried to answer...

 

Sorry, but 20-30 HP is attainable with JUST a chip...
I know cause I have done it before...

I wonder why you cannot recall the numbers with/without chip...

And also, aluminum is cheaper to deal with than steel. It is softer and is easier on dies than steel. It just forces you to TIG the parts togeather... which by the way those welds look on that steel thing, they are not. Barely look MIG...

 

Goign to be running mine on a stock chip. been runing everything on a stock chip... I will be willing to match any numbers and time running people want to post up of stock compared to mine. Plan to get another stock v-6 to work with to run side by side comparason
and hard for creator to weed thru everything btw! id you pm or email him direct?

 

i'm not trying to flame the guy, but when he fails to answer a question about his product i find that a little dumb, also the quality of the picture he supplied does not bode well.

i would love to be proven wrong here

 

Raif, if you were going to make something for retail sale would you not already have the numbers, and information ready to tell people?
That is one of the things I have an issue with about this guy, and what he is tring to peddle. Not to mention I have done better welds on 16 GA stainless tubing with no gas and bare mig wire...

I can think of a reason not to already have all these things known... some of the info looks bad. He has made these for Fieros for how long? He has been asked repeatedly in this thread about particular info... he has yet to post any of it.

Maybe he was successful with the Fiero boys because they did not ask these questions, because *** knows me as a consumer would want to know this info before buying something that I already consider to be overpriced, and poorly made (by pics posted of its construction). So that being said, you (meaning the seller) better prove to me why and how this is better and I absolutely need it.

He has simply not done that. He includes a chip, that on its own can do the power increase he claims. While I have -0- doubt it flows better, and that is certainly a factor, he needs alot more info about this.

This is like a Crane saying you need this cam because it can increase power by 20-30 HP, without giving any specs on it at all. Do you honestly think they would sell a single cam if they sold them that way?

 

like i've already said, its a half assed attempt to sell something, and when we don't all jump on the bandwagon, he just doesn't answer.

i for one would never shell out 650 for anything that doesn't have numbers to back it up on questions i want answered.

i could give a rats *** that HE thinks its a non issue, I the CONSUMER think its an issue, its his job to prove otherwise, not mine to stop asking

this intake will outflow stock, i would never once try to say otherwise, but by the look of the welds, the cost, and the material, i think its someone who thought he'd make a quick buck, rather then someone trying to help out a community as he has claimed, and by the way he doesn't answer questions, or can't remember the numbers, its looking more and more like a mickey mouse con artist job to me

 

Hello Francis..... Simple little question....no bashings.....

WHATS THE FRIKIN RUNNING TEMPERATURE OF THE THING?

Its my question I would like an answer to and I have asked iit 10 times now.

 

shannon, please do post what the new dyno results are on the same chip you have been running.

Are you going to get a custom one after that?

He posted that answer to v6sucker, when it was me

 

well I had the same question too!
I have seen chips alone add the advertised HP that this guy is spurting...

 

Well I guess the problem is that we let the cat out of the bag before we should have... my car is the first f-body with this intake... that is why there are no f-body specfic tests... only fiero. It was mentioned to let you guys know what was coming... what was on the way. I hate that its all taken this long before i got the intake and taken so long to install and get numbers... Working on it though!

Burned the crap out of myself last night while working on the intake. was routing the Throttle cable thru the firewall while laying on the floor in the car. apparently the drop light has an open outlet on the end. well as luck would ahve it the other end of the cable went in and the whole line heated up... I saw smoke and started to freak...have cold so could not smell anything till to late... car is fine... nothing real important got burn, but my right arm and left hand are pretty messed up. The smoke was my arm being burned into. looks nasty... not really painful though! In fact it caughterized (sp) the wound as is burned in... hopefully the cable is ok.. made a mess of it! Still going to get the intake on by fri!

So I'm even hurting myself for all this! The fiero guys have come on their forum and have shown gains. Some ahve tried to come here and talk aobut it. they have plenty of threads over there on their forum. But we are talking f-body and Francis needed a test car... well I'm it! If you remember we had to send him a stock intake and go back and forth with pics to get all this lined up at all. he had no test car for this to mock up on! So we will and are going to get you comparason numbers. I just had the car tested on the dyno recently for the exhaust numbers. Nothing has changed on the car since then. Same for running on the track... nothing has changed since the last time I went to the track. So we are going to keep stock chip in the car... run the intake on the dyno hot and cold. get some numbers for you all then take it to the track next weekend and see if it improves there as well! Get some temp numbers. Hopefully find a stock v-6 to test with! hopefully this will answer all the burning questions!

 

I will give you good comparison numbers! and yes I have custom chips now. Would have gone with francis' chip, but I had already paid a guy and he bought the software to make mine and they were on the way when this intake idea was in the works!

 

Again I will run on stock chip with new intake... no other changes and see what results we get K!?

 

Joe, I have no doubt it will show gains in HP. Thats why I am following this thread in interest.

What I want to know from someone, anyone.....is what is the temp of this thing. I am concerned about sensors being exposed to excess heat AND my paint on my hood blistering from long term use.

Dean

 

This is Shannon... Joe jusrt used my login a few times!

Well I will give you those temps as soon as I get the thing running. Trying to do that. You tell me what conditions and where you want it measured and I will do what I can to get you the info you want!

 

20-30 HP from a chip...If you believe that, I now know where the "V6 sucker" name came from!!! I have seen very few chips for NA cars pick up anywhere near that, at least on these engines. Do you have proof to back up your claim?

 

I took what V6sucker said to mean that he has seen chip tuning net 20-30 hp before...on any car. not these cars, specifically. but, i'll let him speak for himself.

 

I'll have my Snap On infared temp gun with me at the shootout on the 25th if you need to use it Joe or Shannon.

 

I had tuned a chip that did 23Hp increase overall, and upwards of 28 between 2300-3900, and 19 3900-6000. It was also tuned using 19Lb injectors.
So I did it first hand.

And yes, I did 4 dyno pulls for rough area layout, and nearly two months fine tuning with a LM-1 wideband and a EGT guage. I then went back to the Dyno to get final numbers.

Also keep in mind this was 18 months ago, but you also tend to remember things like that. That is another reason why I find it hard to believe that this guy cannot remember the numbers.

 

Cool. Shannon typically makes at least 4-5 runs, and after the trip down there (nearly two hours) it should still be good and warm when we make the first run. If all goes according to plan, the last details of the intake/throttle body swap will be finished up tomorrow afternoon, and we'll dyno it next Thursday. With our luck though, who knows!!!

 

Excess underhood heat from uncoated shieldless headers would be far worse than any heating issues caused by a tubular metal steel intake that has engine head (coolant) temp imposed on one end.

TPI (v8) owners running much more hp than any v6 here and using aluminum intakes would have had similar problems with paint & sensors if it were really an issue. The factory aluminum intake on my old LT1 Caprice was too hot to touch when the engine was hot but the stock hood insulation never suffered because of it.

OTOH I've heard plenty of thermal heating/burning stories of people that replaced the stock factory metal-shielded iron cast exh manifolds (that have poor thermal conduction btw) with headers, especially uncoated headers.

Exhaust manifolds, or headers, are always hotter than any intake manifold, no matter what design or material.

 

But headers are not 1/2" from the underneath of the hood metal.

Come on buddy, how old are you? You have any idea who you are talking too and my credentials. Why don't I start off buy letting you know I am the head judge for the largest NHRA Sponsored carshow in the US- (Thunderfest, Covina CA) I have seen it all- I deal with custom applications and homemade oneoffs.
And have you ever seen my headers on my wifes Camaro, have you seen the rest of the car and the emphysis I have put into heat reduction and rotation weight reduction. I could build this damn intake myself if I wanted to bore myself but my time is much too important and I have too much money to waste that kind of time on a project like this.

Show me you experience by posting a picture of a car you have hotroded other than a 60* V6, because, these are not hotrods. The one I own is a unique daily driver with all creature comforts for my wife.

Stop trying to sell me a bill of goods- show me the frikin proof of temp readings college boy.

 

OOOOOOHHH how much did that set you back?

 

No offense Dean, but what does being a car show judge (for NHRA or anyone else) have to do with ANYTHING??? You have demonstrated knowledge of suspension and other areas, but the fact that you judge a car show doesn't mean much.
What is your problem with college educated people btw? It seems to be your favorite attack. A degree in engineering or related fields, or at least some coursework in the subject from a "college boy", is far more relevant to the subject being discussed. Sure, there are plenty of dumba$$es with college degrees, but there are a lot more without.

 

Joe, the fact that I judge an NHRA show is based on many of the cars that enter such a show are not just trailerqueens, they are actually custom built racecars. They are not always q-tip/toothpick perfect and alot of times I see many with paint distortion due to heat from running them.

This board seems to get alot of young "college experts" who I can obviously tell have no real world experience. Now come on and tell me you can;t see that also Joe. I can tell from your posting you have experience and it comes from wrenching and age- basic life experiences that aren't learned in a book. There are so many different factors involved in engineering something that there is no way any paper test is going to calculate for real world senerios.
You think I do not value education? I am the guy on here you will mostly see computing and figuring specs for everyone. Heck, take my brake setup I built from scratch- didn't take a college degree, it took common sense and experience.

Dean

Edit: Better example, Take a guy like Jesse James (Monster Garage fame). You think I guy lkike that ever did well in school. Now, you think I guy klike that relies on MIT experts to do his designs and then he builds them- no. I would take a guy with experience in real world trials rather than some MIT bookworm any day to built something that my life depends on.

It baically boils down to "build a design and test it. Then modify it more and test it again if you think you can make it better" I am simply asking ffor temp reading so I can make my own determination- I don't want some bookworms FEA expertise in metalolgy

 

im gonna come out and say that dean has pretty much more real-world car knowledge than anyone on these v6 boards. thats an undisputable fact.

take that for what its worth, because there is more to life than experience, right? theories and suppositions are just as important as what actually happens, correct? dean's not perfect, but he is more experience than all of us. period. and if you think he's bluffing, there has been plenty of evidence and proof of his expertise over the past several years, aside from the knowledge he has given.

on a different note, this intake will provide gobs of hp. any intake besides the stock one would. its definitly a worthwhile product in that regard . . . the world of numbers. but its ingenuity is limited, and its increases are far from miraculous. a monkey with a welder could make an intake for our cars that provided good hp gains. whats sad is that there is still such wasted potential in this manifold. it may not matter as much for the 2800#(or whatever) fiero's, but when your driving a v8 supercar that only has a v6 in it, you need everything you can get out of that v6.

an aftermarket intake should be the end-all of mods for our cars. the one mod that is so good you cant afford not to get it. this is not that intake. from a stock car you could easily match the hp/$$ gains of this intake through other mods. and thats through the stock intake. headers $200 uncoated. dynomax catback $170. straightpipe $15?. diy chip $300 for all the equipment. if you already have it(which is a good idea if your gonna be modding your fi car), you can spend that $300 on other stuff, 1.6 rr, cam, pulleys, whatever. or even if you paid alan or someone $300 to make you a sheetmetal upper, then you would be spanking this intake.

improvement = for sure
quality = maybe
value = crap

and thats my review.

 

my point(s) exactly...

 

exactly what i've said all thread

 

Naft, Thank you for the support and respect, it goes mutual.

I'll tell you all the obvious as to what intrigues me with these cars and this little motor. I'll sum that up with one question and them my opinion/ point of veiw.

"What is fast?" well, Anyone can put a V8 into a car and say its faster than most other cars, but "is it fast?" Mostly to all other V8 cars that general answer would be "no, it is average just like all the other mildly built V8 cars out there"

What has intrigued me and drawn me so heavily into this car as a hobby/addiction to keep coming into these boards is exactly the quote I will take from Nafts post-
" it may not matter as much for the 2800#(or whatever) fiero's, but when your driving a v8 supercar that only has a v6 in it, you need everything you can get out of that v6."

Basically, right off the bat we are suppose to be underdogs. Fast is keeping up with or even beating your average V8 out there with a tiny little V6 (not a normal 3.8 or 4.3, a tiny 2.8 to 3.4 V6 in a full size car)

"Now thats fast if achieved" And I would like to see this happen with viable options like for instance "Dowards turbo" or even better with a smog legal application doing it under govt restrictions- "Now thats really fast"

Hence why I am very involved in actively following whats being R&D'ed on these motors and discussions on this board. When there is a new product availiable, I ask myself, "What's wrong with it?" If I can not find anything wrong with it, I will buy it. Right now I see "MAYBE" a potential "whats wrong with it " with this intake so I am askling and looking for an answer to my concerns.
Mainly right now is temp readings. Shannon may not have an issue with this since she has the RAI hood that has more clearance and airflow under the hood to avoid any paint damage long term, but I don't know about the sensors. My gut and experience tell me to worry about any heat increase since my experience with this motor is it runs hot already due to being little and straining in a big heavy car.

 

Biggest thing anyone can do with this car is swap in a 5 spd. There aren't many (or any?) fast 4cyl AUTOMATIC cars on the road... lol. Auto saps too much power, and weighs too much!

Lighten the car as much as possible, for the best possible performance.

 

The thing is, the other mods you can do to these cars...no matter what mods you are talking about...are of limited effect when you can't get enough air into the engine. I have done all the beforementioned mods to these motors, and never felt like I was geting the result that I expected. Based on the dyno numbers this intake has, I think it will be the answer to a lot of those problems.

As far as "spanking this intake", if Alan or anyone else would like to provide an intake with a Ford TB flange (to be returned later) to do a true head to head shootout on Redraif , we'll be glad to participate and let the numbers speak for themselves. Any takers???

BTW the intake is on (pics to be posted later, I promise), we just have a few minor details with the fule lines to work out.

 

Check this link out. I think you'll find it interesting as it shows just what the intakes give you. This is Matt's bascially stock 3.4. And yes, the data came from a fully warmed up car. It's the green aera on the chart that counts.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...0&goto=newpost

 

 

The air heated by the headers, especially uncoated headers or from unshielded manifolds, will rise and be trapped by the hood and/or hood liner (if there is one). This makes the region near the intake manifold (which is usually near the hood, and frequently within 1/2 inch of the hood) like an oven, so that becomes a 2nd source for intake heating (besides the conduction from the heads). I thought you would figure that out without having to be told.

EDIT: V6#20 also previously posted, near the bottom of p4 of this thread, two temp readings using a rotary gauge bi-metallic oven thermometer:
One problem is that the higher temp occured on a steel support bracket that attaches to the top of the alum plenum but isn't connected (by conduction) to any other heat source, yet the temp is higher than on the plkenum itself.

The engineering explanation: engine + exhaust heat RISES, so the closer to the hood liner, the hotter the air temp under the hood.... which is what I said before. The steel support bracket is higher in the engine bay than the TB, and the TB has air being pulled though it all the time the engine is running. The support bracket can't be hotter than the aluminum it's attached to unless the heat source for the steel is something other conduction from the aluminum. By default that measn the heat source acting on the bracket is the air under the hood.

So v6#20's measurements are useful only in confirming what I said at the start of this post. And it also shows why engineering judgement is useful to explain measurements that might be otherwise mis-interpreted (by v6#20)
END EDIT.

Based on one of your prior banned profiles, I am several years older than you, and like you I also have a family. And age has no relavance here.

How does being a judge at a car show have any relavance to a technical discussion? And I'm not talking about judging skills, or being older and having seen it all or about fabrication skills; I am talking about the reasons behind, or for, a design using engineering & technical concepts.

I have not -- but then again I don't spent time with your wife, nor have I been looking at her headers.

It looks like you weren't so bored, or so self-important, that you had the time to build your own aluminum custom intake, shown in several of your prior (now banned) username posts. Where is the "frikin" temp data for that manifold? The temp data, and the dyno data, and maybe the track data (drag strip, not Solo II) would be helpful in comparing your design to the one discussed here.

Posting a picture here proves nothing to anyone other than that I have the skill to post a picture, any picture, on TGO. And that also has no relavance here.

You didn't get my age right, so your crystal ball skills aren't too good.

And you know this because?

I don't tell you how to install a tile or marble counter because I know little about it, so I don't presume to demean your experience or skill in that area. Why do you find it necessary to do the same whenever someone disagrees with you? Why do you repeatedly insist on equating college with 'no practical experience'?

The build-test-build approach was overtaken because of computers. Computer modelling allows a design, any design, to be flushed out and tested for weight, performance, cost, reliability, material choice etc .... long before the first prototype is built. ALL the funded racing car teams in ALL the racing venues (incl NHRA, NASCAR, F1) use computers for modeling, telemetry, design etc. That means they also use engineers, most who went to college --- which is effectively a trade school for using computers and learning the details of science and engineering. Maybe you should ask your buddy Dave "the Voice" McLellan, at the next Thunderfest, whether his experience at MIT was the waste of time you like to suggest it was? He got his master's degree there.

The build-test-build approach is still useful but usually to the hobbiest (like many here) especially if they have fab skills and fab tools. You make do with the skills & tools you have, and so do I, even if they aren't the same toolset.

You already own a custom aluminum intake, so you can provide some data in this. It would also help to have the ECT (engine coolant temp) from the ALDL data stream. *I* don't own a GM v6 so I can't provide the data; I reluctantly waded into the discussion because the heat transfer effects, ALL OF THEM, weren't clearly posted.

BTW it's called metallurgy, a different subject than heat transfer.

And your wife (who you mentioned) & daughter (who you mentioned elsewhere in another post) should be thankful, even if you aren't, that some of those collegiate bookworms you trash had the skill to understand gas mixtures and their consequences on diving safety.

I'll add one more thing. When I post, I wonder what my children would say if they (someday) read my posts and had to judge my behavior towards others here. It helps me from being banned. YMMV, FWIW.

 

fix the link...
it comes back to this thread, which has absolutely nothing of "bolt on HP ratings" other than your intake...
Which the concensus is says not worth it.

 

You know Kdrolt, In your vast efforts to study all of my postings around TGO, one woyuld think a college boy like you that prides himself on research and facts to be a bit more accurate if you are going to analyze a person and disect his postings.

Dave McLellan was the Cheif engineer for the A-body Corbette starting in the wonderful late 70's. We all know how those cars run. Just about any "production" car can be improved upon, but most heardened racecars can't. Last I checked, car manufactureres that have wonderrous teams of college boy engineers are still having quite a few recalls on automobiles regarding major safety problems. I guess they were looking at naked women on their computers those weeks.

Ny acquantiences name happens to be Dave McClelland
And I would have thought better of a studies expert-- "F" today for you.

Kdrolt, you still have not given us ANY useful knowledge or answers pertaining to factual info on this or any other intake for our V6's here. Everything you have 'contributed" to this TECH board is your failed attempt to give us a college professors lesson on metal qualities.

Give me the hard facts, whats the surface temp of the steel intake college boy. Guess they never let you actually do anything at MIT except sit on you hands while the professor preaches his arrogance.

Whats the temp? If you do not own one or have a V6 at your dispossal to do any hands on testing for this tech discussion board, then go away. You just don;'tr get it, but your arrogance will bring you in to psyhcoanalyze my individual sentences again., I am sure of that.

 

I don't see you measuring or even attempting to contribute anythign useful here...

Lot's of anecdotal bashing though.

 

Tom
Bottom of page 4
Thats my car with the BF temp gauge under it getting readings on the stock TB/plenum neck


Were you trying to contribute to thhis tech post? Becaise I just don't see how you post is helping anyone?

I AM THE ONLY PERSON THAT HAS GIVEN FACTUAL SPECIFIC TEMP READINGS PEOPLE. I would like an answer to what the temp reading is on the top of the Trueleo intake for the umpteenth time....

Its my question I am asking for an answer to address MY concerns that if I buy one it will not blister my paint or cause excessive heat to any sensors that are scewed into it.

If you have nothing to add tech wise- do not contribute your "opinions". We need facts here, not computer generated senerios or physic lessons.

I have been banned two or three times alone in this post BECAUE the moderators do not like how I belittle stupid people that can not understand simple questions. You can not answer this unless you own one, so don not try on paper again you college boys, I have heard enough from your types. I went to college also, yet I have kearned enough in the real world ALSO that you need hands on R&D- getting any of this.

edit; I just need to go back to school and refreshen my typing skills

 

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/051176-18.html

Sorry guys, try this link.

 

My bad then. Sorry. I can't believe its' taken this long to not get an intake air temp measurement on either. It doesn't really matter what the housing temp is; it's how much of that transfers into the incoming air. Someone needs to stick a thermocouple in the port by the injector and mearsure the AIR temp under various conditions. As was stated way earlier in this thread.

Not that I think any of this matters. The fact is, the intake makes one of the biggest hp/dollar improvement's you 6'er guys have access to. What ever the temp of what ever you want to argue about is.

 

You are right. It isn't fair that you are so superior to us.


Once again you are right. I cannot believe how easy it was to go to the moon with nothing more than common sense and a little hands on. They must have hired all those scientists and engineers for nothing. I wonder why universities even have engineering programs to begin with? We all know that "real" technological advances are made in peoples garages and discussions on message forums. Did NASA and Boeing lose your application in the mail? I don't know how they came up with their aircraft braking systems without a brake specialist like you on their team.

 

Oops.... sorry. Mea culpa. Similar name, different Dave. Your Dave went to Iowa State, not MIT. I wonder if he studied engineering. Maybe you can ask him. Still, the other Dave (McLellan), the Platform Engr for the C4 Vette, will be crushed he wasted all those years.

Whoa. I guess all that Heat Transfer that I learned as an undergrad in Mech Eng at a large public Land Grant State University (not MIT) wasn't factual. Dean, you'll have to throw away your dry suit (that you use for diving, the one that reduces the flow of body heat into the Pacific while you're looking for lobsters) because it's no good anymore. And the water spray that's used to cool the diamond-impregnated ceramic-cutting saw that you use on the marble & tile (at work) is no good anymore too. The water isn't going to cool anymore, not after this thread. I've used the saws too (only for sectioning minerals, back in 1974, not for countertops), so I know.

I'll have forget all about heat affected zones in weldling. Maybe I should put my Lincoln MIG up onto eBay. I hope the soldering irons still work...

You're right about the hands sitting. Still, I manage and the circulation came back after a few years of PT. Arrogance? That's a popular, but incorrect, misconception. Arrogance comes from the individual, not from the school. I offer portions of this thread as proof.

 

I'll buy that Lincoln Mig off you

 

I can see how many of the people on here think what they think.

However, the one that keeps getting banned, is the only one posting anything useful as far as temps. WHile he may come off a little brash, he IS the only one even attempting to do what is tring to be done in answering some questions.

I can also sympathize with his opinion of "college boys", as while I was getting my degree, I knew plenty of people that could quote anything in the tech and repair manuals, but lord help ya if you actually want them to DO anything. As they were completely useless.

Now, for everything else, I have read nothing but excusses on top of excusses by the person that makes this intake, and those that have bought it. (I do not mean that in a mean way- just stating fact)
The fact remains that this has been a **** poor attempt to try to sell something. He has given -0- info other than dyno results WITH A CHIP INSTALLED. Nothing as far as pure intake install dyno results.
The fact remains that he has posted -0- info on the increased heat that the intake has, and the obviously higher heat transfer to the intake charge.
The fact remains in my mind, that this IS NOT the end all of mods for the price, rather this is far from it. The seller has assumed -0- respondsibilty in this. He has posted nothing but rubbish are far as technical information.

No one has agrued it is better than stock, hell how could it not be? But when questions of a technical nature come up, this guy replies with nothing technical. To actually answer anything being asked. He keeps pointing to dyno results, and opinions of Fiero guys.
I do not know about you, but I could care less about the opinion of someone that has nothing in common with this car other than it shares ALMOST the same engine.

Maybe he got away with selling these to the Fiero guys because they did not ask questions like we did, maybe they just jumped on the wagon... That is not happening here, so he runs and hides and tried to get other people to defend him.

You make it, you gotta have the ***** to stand up and say what is what and nut up with what is being asked. If you cannot do that, you should not be doing what you are doing.

 

You don't seem to appreciate that this is a product in the prototype stage, that isn't even in production yet. Dyno numbers and opinions of people who actually own and have installed a similar intake (Fiero) are all we have at this point. Personally, our installation has dragged on far longer than expected, due mostly to factors that had nothing to do with the intake itself...the install itself wasn't finished until Saturday, and we ran into a few minor glitches that have to be worked out. Since Shannon and I both work full time jobs and have other projects and obligations, we're working them out as quickly as we can and numbers will be posted. The other prototype car caught on fire shortly after the installation. Sure, it would be nice if more info were available from the manufacturers, but guess what...we're not talking about Edelbrock or Holley or some other huge corporation, but a father and son team building parts in their spare time. I think they (and anyone else who sets out to build a part that before them DID NOT EVEN EXIST for this application) deserve some credit for that, and at least the benefit of the doubt for now, instead of the ration of $hit they are getting from you and every other self-proclaimed expert and analytic wannabe on this site! You and others have made your point, and my only question is why are you still here? Why is Dean (or whatever his name is today) still here? Don't like the product? Think it should be made from billet unobtainium and come with a truckload of tests by self-taught engineers (none of that "book lernin' for you guys) ? There's a simple solution; don't buy it. Keep the "cooler running" POS the car came with, or build your own, or buy one from someone else when they become available...but by all means, save your comments until we have definitive results. We know your opinion. We know Dean's opinion. We know Francis' opinion. Until we have something other than opinion and half baked explanations of fields most of you can't even spell, I ,and the moderators, and the others on this site would appreciate it if you all just dropped it.

 

Well said!

Look forward to seeing you and the intake at the shootout Sunday.