Hey guys, I was just wondering what was involved in installing a cam? I have a haynes manual but the engine is already pulled in the book, so I was wondering if I had to pulle the engine to install it. I know thats a pretty novice question, but humor me. Thanks for the help guys

 

Pretty easy... replace the timing chain and water pump while you are at it

Also, replace the lifters! And the valve springs!! You'll basically be ripping the top 1/2 of the engine apart... and I think you gotta remove the radiator, too, to clear the cam..

 

alright sounds easy enough. how much time should I set aside for this job? all day? keep in mind that I am an amateur when it comes to this sort of install, but I need to learn some time. so now is the best time i guess

 

if your new to this set aside a week lol
always seems that some bolt breaks at the worst of times

 

i've never measured but you might need the radiator out and possibly the a/c condensor too. i don't know right off hand cause i had my motor out when i changed my cam. if you're an ameture and have a good idea of what you're doing...a few days probably. if you're completely new to anything like this, probably atleast a week.

 

I did it in the car on Redraif's (the first time, with the 2.8 ), and we did remove the radiator though I can't remember if its really necessary. I would say the fan probably has to come off though, either way. I'd allow a week if you have never done it before, or at least a long weekend.

 

wow! a week huh, i had no idea it would be that involved. perhaps this is a project I should hold off on until i get some time set aside. any recommendations on any parts i'll need besides the water pump, timing chain and cam? I know I'll need new gasket seals and lifters, but can you guys think of anything off the top of your heads? thanks again for the replies.

 

Personally I could do it in a few hours (inc valve springs), but if you have never done a cam swap and don't have much mechanical experience you should allow yourself plenty of time. Its not rocket science, but there are little issues that can come up.

 

might as well put a new front seal in at the same time...you'll have the harmonic balancer off too. might as well rebuild the distributor cause you'll have it out, too. um, i can't really think of other stuff right now.

 

well its not so much that I have no mechanical experience, just not of this particular job. i'm a quick learner, and i have the manual, I guess it'll just depend on anything that goes wrong.

3 hours? you wanna make a trip to philly and help me out?

 

3 hours you might get the balancer and water pump off and timing chain cover and belts and the accessories out of the way if u have never done it before.

Don't rush it, you rush, you break **** and forget **** and takes u longer in the end.

 

yeah i agree, i wont rush it, otherwise, i won't be able to drive it.
any recommended specialty tools? I have a torque wrench, ratchet set, I think all of the tools I'll need I have, but someone with more experience will know better, thanks guys. Sorry about all the questions.

 

do you have a harmonic balancer puller? thats about the only other thing i can think of. the questions are cool....that's what this board is for.

oh yeah, you'll probably need some torx bits also.

 

no, I dont have a harmonic balancer puller, I'll pick one up from autozone when I get new pads tomorrow. I have a torx set already, the camaro is the first car I've ever had to use them on. Well, I guess I'm all set then, I'll post how everything turns out, or, if I break something I'll be posting some frantic questions on how to fix my mistake. I'm getting my cam off of summit racing, do you have a preferred brand? Comp Cams or Crane? Crane has a cam with new lifters for about $159, sounds like an alright deal. I'll only need one cam right?

 

yes Harmonic Balancer puller you will need otherwise you will wreck ur balancer by using screwdrivers and such.

See if AutoZone also has somethign to make reinstalling simpiler, I know beating it with a rubber mallet and a 2x4 was a bitch so they may have somethign that does the opposite of the puller and push it back over.

 

Also get new gaskets for all the **** you rip off and a new harmonic balancer repair sleeve or replacement sleeve, like $5 and its worth it to keep the oil leaks away.

 

which cam are you planning to do? i like crane but comp is okay too. and, yes, we only have one cam.

edit: i bought my current balancer puller from sears. i love craftsman stuff! i think it was around $20-25....not too bad.

 

I'll help ya out ONLY IF ya buy me all teh Pat's & Gino's I can haul back out west!
NOW
Tell me
How many miles on your engine?
How much will this whole job cost ya?
I'd say close to $300, plus your down time, learning curve.
Forget to factor in where will the job be done while car is being woked on?
IF IT WAS ME
Here's what ya do.
GO FIND A 3.4!
The engine will cost you slightly more than this work of cam project and all associated related stuff.
AND you'll have your engine bay "nearly empty" to do the cam swap.
Why not spend the right time for the right effort?
Swapping in a 3.4 is even easier than doing the cam swap.
Why?
Everything is in your greedy hands, because the engine HAS TO BE outta the car.
And the 3.4 has the cam you have found for purchasing, already installed.
Serious, start looking for a 3.4 mill to replaced the current high milage engine already under your hood.
It can be a far wiser and easier project, in the end, for the effort you put out. AND more cost effective.
1993 to 1995 F Body RWD only. 1995 also has the 3.8.
"You only seek a 3.4 60* V6, RWD long block, fully dressed". Wrecking yards understand those terms.
Probably over 100 2.8->3.4 swappers by now. For all the right reasons.
Complete long block 3.4s go for about $500 average.

 

I'm going to go with the crane cam. It has an operational range of 1500 to 4500 so its right about where the power band is on the 3.1. I was looking for a kit with lifters and new valve springs but I didn't see one, I guess I'll have to buy them seperate

 

really? you think an engine swap would be better. I really don't have a shop for my own use, and I'm sure I'd need a lift to get to the tranny. Is an engine swap something you can do in a garage? I'll pick up those cheese steaks and mail em out for ya ked, I just figured the cam with a combination of headers, hi-flow cat, cat-back, intake, and Am91camaro_rs's intake manifold and TB would put me deep into 3.4 territory. An engine swap is something to think about.

 

If your 3.1 is high mileage or otherwise questionable, it wouldn't be a bad idea, but if you have a "good" 3.1 I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble for 16 or so cubic inches. If you had a 2.8 I would definitely recommend the swap.
On Redraif's car, we did the whole swap in a little over a weekend, but ours was not a simple R&R. Her 2.8 heads and intake were ported, it had a new cam/lifters/timing set, etc that we swapped from the 2.8 to the 3.4 (one of the headbolts broke off in the block too....lots of fun to get out!). We cleaned/primed/painted everything (with automotive paint, not rattle can), and got it back in the car over a long weekend. After we do some dynotesting with the new intake/throttle body combo, its coming back out for more work. We'll post plenty of pics of the whole process.

 

the engine has about 138,XXX on it, runs strong and I haven't had many problems with it except minor issues.

 

Do an exhaust upgrade.
Do an ignition upgrade, including new timing chain, water pump, thermostat, and rebuild your distributor
Do a brake upgrade (all new hoses & rear wheel brake cylinders).
Keep searching for the 3.4 to swap in.
By time you're done upgrading all foundation parts, your car will run stronger, cooler, better gas milage.
And all these new parts can be swapped over to the 3.4 mill you've located for a future swap.
Better money spent & better performance in return, too.

 

you need more then just the puller
you need the balancer installer
trust me

i thought the same thing
i pulled it off but then couldnt get it back on
i had to have it towed to get it put back on
the puller tool dose not install it

the puller can be found anywhere "autozone"
the installer is a speciality tool
the key thing to remember is you have to put it back on

 

alright, Autozone rents out specialty tools now for free, so I'll get it from there. KED I installed the new exhaust system already, bought the timing chain and water pump today.

 

NOT TO TAKE AWAY MONEY OR ANYTHING FROM ANYONE!
BUT
Ya strip down a engine in a car for a cam and ya 60% way home for doing the 3.4 swap boogie.
IF ya just add new chain, water pump etc, those things, you're picking up power NOT LOTS BUT definetly more oommph! in your seat of pants (unless ya loaded up on Pat's & Gino's too much!).
AND all those new things can be swapped onto a 3.4 mill easily when ya doing the engine swap.
Best next thing is to rebuild your distributor. Seek out my past rebuild thread for simple way to do that distributor rebuild.
In end, you'll be rewarded with a stronger engine for less cost and less effort. And engine will last longer.
For our 60* engines, don't spend tons of money on power maker items, unless you are building up a 3.4 mill.
Definetly phone around to see how inexpensive is a complete 3.4 mill. You'll be surprised how little that 3.4 engine can cost to purchase, especially back east. Lots of rusted F bodies with good engines back there.
At 138,000 miles there is plenty of original engine to go.

 

I just phoned a local yard for the 3.4, asking 650 for a 95 with 59K on it. I figure thats a pretty fair price considering the miles on it, but still a little too expensive for me right now. I'll build what I can right now on the 3.1, and keep searching for the 3.4. Say I forget about the cam, how much easier is just the water pump, and timing chain install? Less hassle? I'll rebuild the distributor, and I'll see how it looks from there. Also, I know this has been posted before, but since we're on the topic of engine swapping now, does EVERYTHING swap from 3.1 to the 3.4? Will I need a new ECU/wire harness/anything else?

 

If you dont buy it let me know Im haveing a bitch of a time finding one up here ;(

 

I won't be buying it. Too expensive unfortunately, I can get you in contact with the yard though if you want. Just PM me.

 

$650 for a 59,000 3.4 mill complete is a STEAL!!!!
THAT'S LIKE PURCHASING AND INSTALLING A BRAND NEW ENGINE!!!!
WHAT A STEAL!
Find a way to do that purchase & sell your used 3.1!
What swaps over, nearly everything. Serious, nearly 85% of your 3.1 stuff swaps right onto the 3.4 long block!
FYI NEW CRATE 3.4 go for $2100!
Lower your cost of 3.4 purchase in the end by selling left over stuff!
Find a way to score that 3.4!
CAUSE low milage 3.4s are ONLY GOING TO KEEP GOING UP IN COST!!!
IF
you can even find them.
Give that guy a couple hundred and keep feeding that low milage 3.4 owner until you own it!

 

yeah i'm sure that they would set me up on a payment plan for it. KED i'm trusting you buddy, don't stear me wrong! Gino's and Pat's is riding on it!

 

That 3.4 is a score man. Unfortinatly for me plans are changing.

BUt if I i were you I would go after it.


You dont need ECM or wiring harness or anything along those lines, refer to my 2.8 to 3.4 thread for more information and I will also update my person 2.8 to 3.4 swap sheet and give you the link to it so you can use it if u wish.

 

i picked up a 3.4 with tranny and all accessories on the front for $330 with 77k on them! that's a steal!

anyways, if you're going to do the water pump, timing chain, and dist. rebuild...the only other things you'd have to pull to do a cam would be in the intake so that you can get to the lifters.

 

My reliable source in LA sold me mine for a bit more.
Your telling me what you can score.
GO SEE THE DAMN ENGINE IN PERSON AS SOON AS YA CAN!!!
AND BRING CASH FOR THE DOWNPAYMENT!
Get a receipt.
Of atleast 100 plus swapper, only one complaint of the 2.8->3.4 Long Block Swap Boogie project.
You seek a fully dressed 3.4 long block complete.
The more stuff on it the better.
Because spare parts are always great to have.
I'm glad ya made a few calls.
That's a 3.4 under there.

 

alright alright, I bought the damn thing KED I put the down payment on it today. And I'll ask to see the engine tomorrow.

 

Yes this is worth your effort
AND here's what ya MAKE SURE YA ALSO GET on that purchase!
3.4 balancer
3.4 flexplate (auto or stick usage)
3.4 injectors (installed in the 3.4 fuel rail)
EXTRAS!
Starter motor
Power steering pump is an easy swap of current older one or having as a spare!
Alternator (it MAY be same as your current one)
"Y" Pipe & the CC attached !!!!
AC Compressor, too!
3.4 COIL PACKS! are a valuble item for reselling, too.
PS All these extra things ya can use or use for swapping/trading/selling.
Good score!!!
Very fair price for the milage!
Upon dissassembly of the 3.4, you'll see why I stress to make sure you can score a low milage engine. Because the motor will look like it's hardly ever been used! No need for new bearing swaps or oil pump swaps, just pretty much install as is!
See if your 3.1 is needed as a core. IF NOT you can sell the 3.1 engine, too!
DO NOT tell the wrecking yard you are doing the swap!
Because then THEY MAY make you pay extra due to you are not giving them back a 3.4 motor as a core. I've never had that problem but it may come up in detail discussion.
SEE IF you can also see rest of car engine came from, as a guide to previous owner maintenance. Even still, these 3.4s can take a hardy beating. They are strong engines.
Your biggest problem will be making sure your EGR system is in good shape, after the swap, due to your current EGR set up is electronic. Lots of cleaning is the key to making your current EGR set up work well. Also rebuild distributor. And new water pump, new timing chain. Then ya "good to go!"
Leave the current 3.4 manifolds on the engine as they fit your current vehicle exhaust system, perfectly!
IF ya score that 3.4 CC, it is a direct fit for your current CC!
See the beauty of this swap?
So much fits/swaps is ready for when an old part wears out!
How's your current tranny?

 

shifts beautifully and quickly. no major problems at all, the only real problem I now face is getting the tranny and engine seperated without the use of a lift.

 

OH THAT'S EASY!
ONE DOES NEED AN engine hoist for this swap.
IF NEED TO lower front tire pressure! to get engine over radiator lip.
Place small jack under the tranny part, raise it as the engine is raise for pulling (NOT LOTS just enough!). Have those 15mm bellhousing bolts loosened. Stick in a big screwdriver, pry things apart! THEN use a BROOM HANDLE! going across engine bay.
STICK long bolts into bellhousing
Lower tranny onto the broom handle
DONE!
REALLY that simple!
YOU ADD Torque convertor to the tranny FIRST (seat it proper!) then line up flexplate & TC & then rebolt everything together USING REALLY GOOD NON-REMOVABLE RTV on the T.C. thread bolts.
AND
OTHER TIP
Remove the HOOD AND THE HINGES from the fender, NOT remove the hood from Hinges!
Hinges ONLY GO IN one position on fender!
Hood slides up & down the hinge!
That way NO adjust is needed!
Understand?
AND make sure you read my tech thread.
IT's written for a 1985 engine platform.
Your 1991 set up is SLIGHTLY different needs/details.
NO NEED FOR CONCERN, others have done this so can you!
Everything comes together as the two engines sit side by side.
ALSO MAKE SURE YOU GET the engien FRAME MOUNTS from the donor car.
They are great for spares & IF your current ones worn out, they fit perfectly!

 

yep i got it, I've taken the hood off before trying to get to the distributor.

 

stupid question from the Tard....

I always see someone post "hey just swap out a 3.4" to just about any post that has anything about fixing up a 2.8....ok, that was a tard statement...here is the tard question

Horse power of 2.8 stock vs 3.4 stock?
horse power of 2.8 with phase 2 cam vs 3.4 stock?
hp of 2.8 same cam and headers vs 3.4 stock?

I know...search but it was a point to ponder in this conversation.

Ron The Tard

 

what's the specs for this "phase 2 cam"? that'll help more. the reason everyone says to put a 3.4 in is becasue it has like 40 more hp stock than a stock 2.8. and, a lot more tq.

 

Wrong way to look at a solution.
2.8
Original tired overworked underpowered mill in a car that's heavy & usually driven by a heavy right foot.
2.8
Small
2.8
If ya gonna rebuild it, it'll run ya like $1,000, easily.
2.8
Horsepower? Try taking a compression test on your current condition engine to see how much PSI per cylinder, then go for another drive. Compute your own engines horsepower.
3.4 engine
Produced under the hood for a short 3 model year stretch.
3.4
Age is atleast 10 years newer.
3.4
GM put the "best of the best" (until the debut of the World Class 60* V6-See Cadillac in your local showroom) into this last version (more aggressive cam, larger valve springs, larger motor block, more compression).
3.4
A no need rebuilding low milage long block recently scored for a measly $650. At 59,000 the engine is broken in for the long haul.
It comes down to a simple decision upon finding the right subject to put on the power adders, for under your hood.
Either way you spend money, shouldn't ya (or wouldn't you) try to spend your money & EXTRA TIME on the right project?

Of atleast 100 swappers (so far), one person wasn't pleased with the end result.
When ya add up the costs involved, it makes plain sense. With Damn Decent great results in the end.
In honesty, this is the engine GM should have released to the public, under the hood of the 3rd Gen V6 F Body, back in 1982.

 

I've driven my first 3.4 swap boogie for over 20,000 miles, on a low milage used long block.
The swap made all the wrongs in the car, right.
Like freeway driving, climbing a long steep hill, loaded with family AC blasting ice cold. And, adding, able to accelerate!
I didn't do this swap to win every race, but it sure can be heck lot more fun trying!

 

I understand what your saying, I think.

Personaly I rebuild any engine I have out of a car, I mean if it's already out, regardless of the miles, There is nothing worse than swapping a motor and 3-6 months later you need to pull it back out and rebuild it....done it once, swore it would never happen again.

besides, 2.8, 3.4, 351 windsor, it doesn't matter, you never know what you bought until you open it up and look at it. Thats when you find the quaker state kings and thier sludge filled intake with the leaking gasket and that one lifter that just never got to lift or the fact that thiese people that owned it had no idea of what oil was or how much you put in the gas tank.... and that you could hide your stash under the lip in the cylinders.

Plus, at least for me, I'm going to still buy the new cam and the better pistons and rods, ect... regardless of what I have I will always spend the money to make it better.

I guess it is just like anything else it just boils down to what you want.
If you want the pure red light to red light lightning bolt or if you just want a little more better...

Ron The Tard

 

http://www.engine-parts.com/GMV6/28camspecs.html

I bought the phase 2 a.r.i. (most popular) one

 

that's real similar to the stock 3.4 cam!
you could upgrade the pistons. but, the rods are forged from the factory so there'd be no reason to replace them unless you have one that's messed up.

 

hey, while your calculateing that up einstein check to make sure it works with stock parts.....lol...

I think it does but, not 100% sure.

I want to be like him when I grow up......he smart
Ron the Tard

 

Hope your results work out well.
If you buy your engine from a reputable wrecking your source, a "bad choice used engine" isn't a problem.
I bought and really paid extra, for my engines, from a reputable wrecking yard guy. I bought previous engines from him and those were also very good subject for swaps.
Never hurts to make a few calls for other options.
You can buy a complete core 3.4 for as low $100 these days.
You know what they say,
No replacement for displacement.
I'd rather stick a 351 Windsor in place of a 260/289 in a 1964 1/2-1966 Mustang Convertible, anyday!

 

Well I took a look at the engine today. To be honest, it looks completely different than the 3.1 block. I'll give you the vehicle description on my deposit slip, 300-05134 1U-ENGINE ASSEMBLY
VIN#2G1FP22S4S2186071: -READY-RUNS-NICE, 3.4L,AOD,AC:1995 CAMARO 59K I know thats a pretty general description. But maybe some of you guys know what the codes are. I pick it up on july 9, can't wait to rip this thing out. I hope you guys are ready for questions.

 

does it look like this on top?