are these the right type of motor i could use for a 3.4L swap?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-...03272406QQrdZ1

im j/a cause im not sure?

if not could someone plz give me an exanple of a correct engine!
and im looking for any info on the 2.8-3.4 swap cause i searched but didnt find alot of good reailable info!

 

no thats a FWD engine. you need to look for one out of a 93-95 camaro or firebird. those are the only ones that will work, for the typical swap youre talking about. the others are possible, but lots and lots of stuff is needed to do it.

 

well is the impala RWD? i dont think it is its FWD aint it?

 

impail-ya's have been fwd since at least 95

 

Great starting price though.

The swap is possible, but not as easy as the genI 3.4.

If you are after some serious gains, the the Aluminium top end would be the way to go, building what a few of us have, refered to as a hybrid. In my case I used a genI (2.8) bottom end and used a '95 3100 top end, whihc is now being changed to a '99 3400 top end. This is in my 2WD 1985 GMC Jimmy.

 

hey raven, what ignition setup are you using, DIS?

 

The straight up bolt in requires, 93-95 3.4 outta a F body.
Though you can frankinstien endless setups togeather and come up wth quite the power house. But that takes time and research.

 

Do a search for the 2.8->3.4 Long Block Swap Boogie Thread I wrote.
It answers 85% of your questions.
Remaining 15% answered when ya have the two engine blocks sitting side by side outta car.
Of aleast 125 swappers, only 1 not happy with results. Sounds like nearing 150 soon!
This is what a correct swap looks like in end.
Boring ain't it?
Just ask me how easy it is for smog test passing. He-he.
That's why I did my swaps. Ease at smog testing, no one "knows", thus easier engine "rebuild" (I killed the little 2.8) and power gains, too.
And ya already own nearly 85% of important parts for the swap to work, on your original vehicle engine.
It's a bloody detailed simple engine swap.
93-95 F Body ONLY
$210-$900 for engines. I paid high side out in LA, CA area. Worth it tho.
Really transforms the car, to work right.
Such a heavy car, it needs the more powerful 3.4 torque.

 

Yeah, for now. I am seriously considering going to a distributer set-up, but requires a custom manifold. The distributer will not clear the stock genIII intake (Also will not clear the stock genII intake).

Ked, so a "proper 3.4 swap" includes duct tape and masking tape on the intake duct work?

 

please don't get him started

 

For testing purposes I used this set up.
To see "how to get max air flow gain" at lowest cost using stuff lying around.
And must recall the SoCal environment is very forgiving due to lack of extreme rain or snow or whatevers.
Ya oughta see my air dam made from rain gutter.
All to be changed real soon.
Putting the proper body panel stuff coming from storage onto car real soon.
Other things in life more important than some car projects.
No big deal to me.
Please come out and contribute labor if you are volunteering LOL!
This weekend is fixing the 74 Corvette emergency brake system so I may drive that car cross country.
I may tow my 1967 RS/SS Camaro convert 4-speed behind the Corvette. The car is engineless thus lighter weight.
Hell as long as the AC works in my FIrebird, I'm content.

 

Yeah, i'd like to see you show me a 95 thats fwd. (or a 96' )

 

nope, caint do it. but you cain have a 2000 one for those ugly boats.

But I have seen a fwd el camino.

 

this guy's 1995 impala is rear wheel drive.


this here 1996 impala is rear wheel drive.

imapalas look kinda cool....

oh and good luck with your swap.

 

is it possible to do a 2.8/3.4 hybrid

like use the 2.8 block but put 3.4 heads/intake manni/crack??
or wouldnt that help at all???

 

Listen to this guy, he knows what he's talking about.

www.domesticcrew.com/raven/James

 

3.4 heads are the same as the ones you have, if you use the intake then you have to swap to DIS system since the 3.4 intake wont clear the distributor and did you mean crank?

wait, did you mean 3.4 RWD heads or 3400 FWD heads?

 

the 3400 heads and the 3400 intake mani and a 3400 Crank
crack ROFL sry. LOL

 

Why Bother?
The "Wow" factor?
Just do the right thing and buy the used low milage running 3.4 long block, fully dress, unload what is not necessary in your "Swap Boogie" and be back on road with more power, horsepower & torque in about 72 hours.
Couldn't ya spend your time and money on something else or ?
I saw a pic posted in a thread of the "Wow" factor hybrid 3.4 set up.
Did look interesting.
Complete 3.4 engine have the price range of $210 to $900.
72 hours later you could be on the road, driving a better car.

 

Obviously you've never driven a 660 hybrid equipped vehicle, that uses the genIII top end, or looked into why those of us that have built these engine do. That's alright, there's only two in RWD trim that I know of, I own one and another is in a 4th gen F-body.

It much MUCH more than a "wow factor" .

Like anything, more power is the desire, so while swapping to the 3.4, why not build a hybrid and have more fun.

It's not hard to build a hybrid, but there are some key points to consider before doing so.

-You WILL have to use DIS ignition, which will require an ECM swap.
-If you are using a 2.8 or 3.1 block as the starting point, you WILL need to make an external crank position sensor bracket and timing wheel. (pics of mine are in my picture site.)
-You will either A) need to build custom manifolds or headers, or use aftermarket headers and modify the flanges. The bolt pattern is spaced a little wider on each port, IIRC about 1/2" total. Notchng teh flanges where the bolt holes are will work for that. But the genIII heads also use D-shaped ports, which requires the modification of the flanges and primary tubes to match.
-Static Compression Ratio, now here there are a few choices, if you want N/A and would like an SCR of around 11.5:1 (using the .060" head gaskets) from a 2.8 or 12.5:1 from the 3.1 (again using the .060" head gasket), then swap the heads and call it a day. BUT if you want something a little lower, like 8.9:1, use the FWD heads for a genII 2.8 (if you are keeping the 2.8 2.99" stroke) or genII 3.1 pistons if you are using a 3.1 as a base.
There is yet another choice here, if you want something in the 9.3:1 SCR range then again, use the genII FWD pistons that best fit your application, but use the RWD .040" head gaskets.
BUT WAIT, there's more! You want a little more? how about 9.6:1, well the 2.8 guys are SOL, but the 3.1 and 3.4 guys can use the genIII pistons from the 3100 and 3400 respectivly, using the .060" head gasket. Sorry, without shaving the pistons, the .040" gasket won't work here to raise the compression anymore, since the genIII pistons come proud of block by .020".
-On any genII or genIII head you can take your genI rocker set-up with the adjustable rocker studs and use genII pushrods. With the splayed valves, the pushrods become two different lengths, and both are different than the genI length. Your best choice here though is to get '96 and newer heads that use the roller fulcrum rockers, and get custom length pushrods. These rockers are also 1.6:1 ratio.
-I'll also point out that the bolt holes in the ends of the heads are in different locations than the genI heads. I don't know if you could drill and tap them for the genI pattern, without possibly causing coolant leaks. I made adaptors and new mounts for my tensioner. I haven't had a chance to cut my junk heads apart yet to find out.
-Upper rad hose will need to be modified, and depending on your accessory mounting/belt routing, may need a modified T-stat housing.
-There is misc. little modifications needed to the genIII LIM to accomodate the heater hoses in a similar set-up to stock, along with throttle cable changes, but these are minor in comparison to the overall picture. Also on the J-body swaps and my swap (probably F-body too), there will need to be at least one hole drilled in the TB for a "Ported vacuum source". Some careful measuring and a drill press, a drill vice, along with some brake line makes this an easy task.
That's about all I can think of right now, which may sound like a lot, but in reality it's no more than building and engine and swapping it in, say similar to V8 swap, though you leave the tranny alone and the mounts, it's just some engine bay changes.

 

Hey
It wasn't a Put Down "Wow Factor"
I live in SoCal
Ya wanna jump thru the smog hoops be my guest.
I'll be using my car on the road.
What ya done is a great job.
Wish I "could" take advantage of the option, but not in this state.

 

wow i just read all of that and im confused

all i really want to know is if the heads off a 3400 motor would make a increase and bolt right up?

i know now that the 3400 intake manni wont w/o swaping over to a diff spark system and i dont wanna mess with that as i need to keep this realiable

 

If you want to swap just the heads, no, not even close.

The ports are in a very different location and the valve cover sealing is quite different.

That's why I typed out what I did, you have to make those choices above before starting on a hybrid project.

Besides the DIS system is VERY reliable, probably more reliable than the distributer based system. Less moving parts and nothing to wear out.

Ked, it sure sounded like a put down to me, like it would be a waste of time.
Too bad you "can't take advantage" of it, just don't assume we all need to do teh same things you do. Most of us don't live in Cali.

BTW, why does it take you 72 hours (that's 9 days at normal shop time) to swap to a 3.4? At most it should be about 16, 24 if you've never re&red and an engine before, since, it's essentially a re&re, with a few parts to swap, just like any other engine re&re.

 

ok how does one go about swapping to a dis system

 

preferrably using the donor cars harness's, engine & dash. Or modifying your dash harness.

 

You need a trigger wheel that mounts to the harmonic balancer and a sensor bracket.

In this pic is the initial test fit, the bracket (adjustable) is just rough cut, and there are no notches on the trigger wheel yet.


In this pic is installed


there is a member of 60degreev6 that has informed me that he's looking into getting the discs laser cut, I don't know what he intends to do about the brackets though.

You will also need to swap the ECM, don't worry, it's not an overly hard job to do. Also it depends on the ECM you have, this may be easier than it sounds to be. If you can get me your service number I could tell you.

I forgot to post these pics in my last reply, there are pics of my block with one iron (genI) head and one aluminium (genIII) head on it:

 

Unnessisary. The same wires are used between an electronic distributer based system as a DIS system, just the programming is different. I'm also pretty sure the EGR is different, or teh control of each, but not to difficult to over come.

In a lot of cases re-pinning the existing harness is all that is needed.

I need to use a donor harness in my truck since it was originally carburated, so I had no EFI wiring at all. I also did not re-wire my dash, I add 3 wires to the dash harness for the CEL, Ignition and one other that I can't think of right now of which I ran through the dash without removing it.

 

ok damn i think im in over my head i think i'll just pick up a 3.4 freshen it up and then drop it in cause it will bolt to my trans!!

unless any of u swapers live near Rockford Il, 61108 (1 hr west of chicago?

 

well that may be all nice & all for your swap, but I used the donor harness. Which was, go figure , easier than rewiring the engine harness.

 

I know I don't, I live in teh great white north, eh?

The genI 3.4 swap is the easiest, but not the most powerful.

 

What were you swapping from/to?

 

a burned up (litterally) 3.4 that didn't want to pass e-check to a 3800 Series II

 

Well, yeah that would require swapping the harness, or beaing easier anyway. The 660 DIS systems is VERY different than the 3800 DIS system and uses no extra wires than the distributer based system.

 

nothing like argy'ng apples & oranges





edit: PICS of when it was in, fwiw.

 

LOL, yeah very different indeed.

Looked good in there, I take it, you've removed it since?

 

when I got back from deployment last yr, it didn't want to start. Issues w/the fuel enable signal. The progrmmer, digital hp or HP tuners cost $400 each, and required me to hunt down an elusive 97 pcm, out of my range, so I sold'amselling the 3800 to finance my (sell out) vee-ate conversion. 305, tranny, dash & engine harness for $450. Made in easier to afford payments.

Yeah, it kinda sad when the v6 I took out had more hp than th evee-ate that's going in.

 

next question anyone got a good 3.4L motor for sale?
looking to spend about $100-$500 maybe more if its a built really good motor!

 

heehee, I got my 3.4 from Elborn Ill.

 

Part of the recent reponses were why I responded as I did with the "Wow" factor response.
MOST here CANNOT re-engineer their cars for the complexity of an upgade as such, using the FWD heads.
My suggestion of completly swapping used running long blocks under thier vehicle hood, is as far as some "may go" in a real power upgrade for thier car.
And MOST on this board do have to go thru smog hoops, every other year.
The more money ya spend on the good score low milage 3.4 eliminate the need for any further "rebuilding" beyond a new timing chain.
The time frame factor includes what other people have to do in their lives.
I count "72 hours" as a long weekend.

 

So how is myself and others that want to upgrade to the genIII top end any different than other car guys that do the same with other engines, such as SBC or SBF, hell even Chrysler guys do it, and we all know about the frankenstien engines that the Honda boys are doing (AKA LS/Vtec).

So why not try and get the most out of the 3.4 short block? There is a **** load more power on tap, just by making the engine breath better, through use of the genIII top end, just like any other engine ever built, we just have the ability to use OEM parts to make it all work together.

All of the above mentioned builds requires some degree of engine bay modification, even just swapping heads on a SBC, since well, why swap heads and not swap the manifolds for headers, the intake for a better flowing one, etc.

I've never said that the genI swap was not worth it, in fact, quite the opposite, just people are curious what it would take to upgrade to the genIII parts, so I put out the info, you then say it's a waste and why do it? Why swap to the 3.4 in the first place? Exactly more power, the hybrid just takes it a step farther, for those that want more power.

Other than Cali, the engine swapping laws are not as stringent, the hybrid swaps and full genIII swaps have been swapped in MANY different FWD GM cars and in MANY of those smog states, and guess what? All but IIRC 1 has passed SMOG check, and that one that failed was due to a failing fuel pump not the engine, oh BTW, I also have E-tests (SMOG) to go through, and my hybrid passed with flying colours, so other than Cali the SOMG excuse is a poor one at best.

Don't be hatin' on the guys that want more from thier swaps, just shut up and let us perform these swaps so that we can get even more from our swaps.

I'd still like to see a modded 3.4 (with or without turbo) waste a V-H8, since well I know it can be done, then the 660 might get a bit more respect on this board from some of the other guys.

 

Don't be hatin' on the guys that want more from thier swaps, just shut up and let us perform these swaps so that we can get even more from our swaps.
Never said I hate anyone.
Nor would I ever.
You seem to have very low self esteem of things.
And lately, who has been asking you to coach any 3.4 powerplant upgrade swappers?


so other than Cali the SOMG excuse is a poor one at best.
YOU go argue your case of this hybred swap to the California Legistrature and The California Air Research Board.
Let us all know how it turns out.

My ride was up and running and has been near reliable with little engineering effort for near 25,000 miles by now.
Three California smog tests.
Working AC, too.

For good or bad (I do think your set up is a good idea) it can't fly for many on this board or those reading the thread.
If ya think otherwise, good for you.

I wish GM made it easier to create what you have made and it was easier for the CA Smog laws to be more relaxed.
Not so in my situation.
That's why I strongly suggest this type of simple enginered swap project.
Over 125 by now have done the 2.8->3.4 swap. And are very pleased with end result.

 

OMG, do you really have this hard of a time understanding the english language?

There have been a few questions on how to do this, re-read these threads, you can plainly see people asking about DIS and the 3400 top end hybrid swap.

I said OTHER THAN CALI, meaning, anyone in Cali is pretty much up Sh!tcreek, if they want to build a hybrid, but in other states it can and HAS been done, without (too many) issues.
Get your head out of your ***, there's more to the automotive industry than Cali.

 

When ya get a good grip on yourself be sure to elevate yourself to sainthood.
Cause no one else cares about ya immature answers.
The thread was about swapping to a 3.4
Ya added your good idea.
So did I.
If other can accomplish your ideas, swell.
When ya come down from your world maybe a reply from yourself would be worth interjecting into a life.
Big deal so you can type few words.
Maturity comes from knowledge.
Seems you lack that too.

 

Translation please?

 

Later.

 

you're making yourself look like a d1ckhead and all around a$$hole

i see this guy ked in here just droppin his two cents, and then here you come with a bible-long post trying to knock him down for everything he says simply because you think "wow factor" was an insult.

shut the hell up already

are you like 14 or something?

people like you make the board enviroment such a tedious place

 

LOL, thanks for bringing up an other wise dead post, just to put in your two cents about me.

Now on to my reply to you:

I really don't give a **** what you think about me, or the way I conduct myself, if you re-read the thread, I was not putting down Ked for what he said directly, but his lack of understanding, which parts do what, in this entire thread he keeps assuming that there is more to making the DIS set-up work than there really is.

Also the questions were asked about how to make it work, so I answered at which point I was then, told the top end swap was pointless and for "wow factor only", which is quite obvious that anyone who says that has never driven one of these hybrids, if they had, then more people would take the plunge and actually build one of these hybrids.

Doward will be one of the first on this board (besides myself) to actually build one of these hybrids and realize that it is completly worth it.

I don't sugar coat things, I call a spade a spade and people take that as being a ********, fine, I really don't care, I've been called much worse.

But thanks for your input, even though there was no additional technical input concerning the topic at hand, great job.

 

It wasn't even halfway down the first page when I came in here, so it obviously wasn't that dead.

And you're not calling a spade a spade.

You're acting childish and immature, and your overly long post after mine proves it. You seem to have an inferiority complex and you feel you have to defend and prove yourself to all of us online. Ked said two words, and it resulted in a long and drawn out bashing by you.

And he NEVER implied anything, YOU took it upon yourself to ASSUME what he meant when he simply told someone he knew a simple and easy way to do a 3.4 swap.

You're talking about swapping out a harness, ECM, intake, an entirely new ignition system, etc... Just for someone who is trying to keep it simple and get a little more out of his motor. The guy is getting confused, and you're trying to make it harder, so KED offered his simple strategy.

He seems to have a better grasp on the situation than you do. You're simply trying to have someone do it "your way" for some odd reason.

All of that extra work for that intake and DIS setup, and what do you gain? Next to nothing. That's what. It's ridiculous that you can even argue for your own side of this, it's a V6 motor in a 3500 pound car and you're over here talking about squeezing another 10 horses out of this mill with alot of extra work. It's stupid. All is fine when people experiment and check things out, and it's great that you got it to work, but that doesn't make it a feasible alternative to everyone.

You seem to be very mislead, and you read negative things into people's posts automatically because you are a negative person.

It's pathetic really.

And you were NEVER "asked".

You came in, you gave your opinion, he gave his, and you replied (which started the whole bullsh!t in here).

I was simply pointing out that people like you are getting VERY tiring.

But hey, you'll respond to this with another worthless and meaningless post trying to pick mine apart... Because you're stubborn, and you always think you're right. You always will. You guys are so common on these kind of forums that it's unreal.

You think I'm being ridiculous right now, not even realizing you have been totally unreasonable in this entire thread.

We can all do this all day, and go back and forth, with no valid point whatsoever, but somehow twist it to seem we're right. but I won't. It's assinine.

I was just saying, if I was a mod, I would have warned you to be polite, and I'd keep an eye on you. Yeah, I'm being a bit hypocritical because I came in here and flamed you, but that's because I've seen you do it a few other times too. And like I said, it's getting old. I don't run around arguing.

Good day.

 

To which he later clarified as:

And later in the thread asked:

Pretty Fuquing specific right there if you ask me.

So I put out the correct info, where others that have NOT performed this swap posted false or misleading info, as you are now.

I can tell you know **** about these engines and what this type of swap is capable of doing, well beyond a 10 HP increase, try on a stock 2.8 Bottom end, leaving the OEM pistons for an SCR of around 11.5:1 with a matched cam, such as the Crane 260-2 or the 272, a MINIMUM of 30 HP increase would be expected. Better gains starting with the 3.1 or 3.4 shortblocks.

Yes, I am calling a spade a spade, I am not reading anymore into any reply other than what is posted.

I don't care if people perform this swap, but for those that ask I tell, you don't like it, shut the fuque up, unless you can actrually add info brought on by experiance or VERY in depth research, don't even reply.

No, a harness swap is not needed, in fact very minimal harness modifications are needed, unless it was a carbed car. I needed to swap a harness into mine, since well I didn't have a harness to start with, seeing as my truck was origianlly carbed.

This is the entire reason I left this place a few years ago, because people here ARE mislead, and are fed bad info by those that think they know. I may not be right all the time, but the GM 660 is one thing I know VERY well, and know how to get decent power out of these cars with a little imagination and creativity, along with some junk yard parts.

Tell me what have you added to the topic besides some bashing towards me?

 

Chris...

you know that swapping in a built 350 will yeild better results than a hybrid right

j/k, just messin with ya

i do have a 3.1/3400 hybrid in the works for my Z24. expecting about 250 HP.. maybe high 13's with traction


but my roots are in the roller 355 sitting torn apart in the garage...