I have checked all the V-6 messages on this site and have not found an answer to my following question. Will I be able to install a 2002 Pontiac Grand Am 3400 crankshaft in my 89 Firebird 2.8 in order to stroke it to a 3.1? Or to put it another way; are all 60 degree V-6 crankshafts the same regardless of stroke? I am already aware that the earlier 2.8 cranks have smaller main journals which would make them different from the others! I was given a 3400 block complete with the crankshaft by a local garage which I would like to use but based on the info that I gleaned from the V-6 messages on this site, I would not be able to use the 3400 block in my application even though it would be great to be able to do so due to the better performing heads and intake? Hopefully, I can use the crank? Your input and advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks.

Bill

 

dont waste you time just get a 3.4 worth the money and power

 

Yes, you can use the 3400 crank in your '89 block, this will as you have suggested give the stroke, with the stock 2.8 bore of a 3.1L The FWD 3.1 and 3400 (and 3100) all use the same crank (most of them being the 981 casting). You will need to use 3.1 pistons. If you retain the iron heads you will need pistons for that application ('90 to '93 F-body).

I would suggest that you swap the 3400 top end on, yes it's some work, to get the hoses and tubes, exhaust, etc and ignition system to all work well in a RWD hybrid application. 3.4 block ('94 to '96 F-body) makes this a bit easier with a crank trigger location, the RWD 2.8 and 3.1 blocks require the use of a custom external crank trigger, this is how I built my hybrid in my Jimmy. FirstFirebird is building a 3.4/3500 hybrid currently, while I am swapping to a complete 3500 in my Jimmy. I'm swapping the complete 3500 due to improvments in the oiling system that started in the genIII 660, back in late '93. The additional cubes don't hurt either.
You can swap the complete 3400 in, you will need to make new mounts, driver sidse for sure will need to be custom, passenger side you can use the original, but only two bolt holes are proper when you do this, due to the 3400 having a bolt pattern that moves the 4 holes forward and spread them out a bit. You also have to use the FWD starter location, that will require the use of the FWD flywheel and a modified bellhousing or one of the ultra rare dual starter pocket bellhousings, that may or may not have come from an early F-body. You will also need to relocate the oil filter, remote mount here.

Top end changes, I have listed several times in this forum alone, if you are interested in doing the complete swap, or just the hybrid swap search for these posts, the top end chassis changes apply to both hybrid and complete swap. Well worth doing.

 

hello sixshooter.. LOL

to the 3400 question, i think the FWD 3400 top end along with the reverse intake manifold from the buick van/truck??? otherwise your intake will be pointed at your firewall.

i say do the whole 3400 if possible or the 3.4 bottom and the 3400 top end if possible. but i dunno for sure.... but the intake will be a probelm if you don't use the reverse style upper intake.

 

Six shooter, I pulled the oil pan off of the 3400 block and checked the casting number which is "268". I noticed one of the counter weights has six indentations which I presume are for timing (reluctor)? I also noticed that there is an electronic device behind the crankshaft pulley-is this the dis? I have to tell you that I am not very knowledgeable in these modern fuel injected engines. My expertise is building small block chevrolets for the local dirt tracks here in Iowa. I have not dominated by any means, but my engines have won three season championships and 24 feature wins in 14 years; in effect, almost two a year. One must also take in account that there were lots of 2nd and 3rd places in those years, also. At any rate, I have a lot to learn concerning the 60 degree v6, especially in the area of electronics and the associated wiring and hose plumbing. Hopefully, you are patient and will work with me. Are there any manuals available that reference the 60 degree electronics and plumbing that could help me? And what are your topics concerning the 3400 upper end listed under? If there is one particular subject title, it would be much easier for me to find them through the site engine rather than searching through 105 pages! Incidently, I am 61 years young and yearning to learn this new (maybe old by now) technology.

Bill

 

Basically, take the top end and pistons to bolt to a 3.4 block. This is the easiest way to go. Some custom fabrication is going to be needed for exhaust manifold/headers and accy brackets. Unfortunately, there has only been one person to pretty much document everything for doing this in an Fbody, but his was a 4th gen (I will hopefully do a write up myself for 3rd gens)...

http://forum.camarov6.com/showthread.php?t=64963

 

Do a bit more research, you can turn the stock intake 180*, as I did and it works just fine.

 

268 is the other not quite as common casting number (I couldn't recall the exact number when I wrote my last post), so far I have not been able to find a difference in the two casting numbers, some say it has to do with where the cranks were cast and not so much of a manufacturing difference, some swear one is stronger than the other, so far both have worked just fine in many applications. You will find 7 notches on the crank trigger wheel, one is 10* away from another, this is the "home" signal, actually is 50* IIRC before #4 TDC. This trigger wheel through the crank postition sensor triggers the DIS ignition. The sensor behind the crank pulley is also a crank position sensor (24x), but is used by the 3400's PCM, and is in no way benificial in a retrofit, unless you use the 3400's PCM.

The topics mostly deal with "3400" or "hybrid", if you want to use the search engine, add my user name in the filter, firstfirebird has also started and posted in a few interesting threads.

If you're willing to learn I can work with that.

I do not know of a specific book or set of books that would really teach about the electronics, other than factory service manuals, and more research.
If you are planning a retrofit, plan to use an older ECM from a car that had a genII 660, as the electronics are MUCH easier to work with and get running than the newer P4 PCM that is normally attached to a 3400, due to the Passlok system. There are ways around this, but then you're also stuck with little to no aftermarket PCM tuning support, where as there is a multitude of available products and info relating to the older C3 systems. Aftermarket ECUs are also another option.

 

QFT! I tried it, and the UIM, and LIM can be rotated 108* (independent of eachother, in fact)

Captian, if you want to keep the 3.1/2.8 block, I would be willing to trade some 3100 pistons (will work with the 3400 heads) for the 3400 pistons you have. Mine are still pressed on the rods, and am having a little trouble locating some 3400 pistons, which is the last major component I need to build this beast. I can find plenty of early 3100's here in the local yards, but not 3400's. I origionally was going to keep my 3.1 block and use them in my car, but I have since located a 3.4 for a fair price.

I also agree here. There is a lot of support for the MAF and MAP programing, and this is probably one of the best sites to find info (DIY PROM section). there's a lot of knowledgeable people here and are willing to help walk you through it.

 

Firstfirebird, I regret to inform you that I have no 3400 pistons. All I have is a 3400 block and attached 3400 crankshaft plus some associated emission parts that are on the block. I was given the 3400 block/ crankshaft by a local garage for nothing because the owners wanted to get it out of their way. I do, however, work in a parts store and I will gladly check to see if I can find you some 3400 pistons; standard size I suspect?

Bill

 

that would be fantastic, I have some worthy trades

EDIT: I think I may have found a set, but if you still want the 3100 pistons (to go in a 3.1). I will give them to you for $25 +shipping, just want to get rid of them. I also have some other parts I need to "loose" .