notatoy

ok so heres the deal i got a 91 camaro 3.1v6 for only like 200 dollars. all i was told was it had been sitting for 5+ years. got the car home fixed all the things that were wrong with the car as far as i could see. (i.e. battery cables things like that) it turned over but would not start checked fuel pump no good still nothing. started going through the entire ignition system so i put in new plugs wires cap rotor button and a new computer engine codes on the old ecm were code 13 which i was told was the o2 even changed that


some one please help

micali

iTrader: (1)

I would start with checking fues' to make sure they are not missing or blown. Make sure you get rid of that old gas before you try starting it agian. That old gas can make it not start.
Are you getting spark? You should purchase a inline spark tester to see if you are getting a strong spark. If your not getting spark then the coil could be bad and or the igniton module in the distributor. You can have the IM tested at any parts store.
So is the fuel pump ok? Can you hear it prime when you turn the key? Have you tested the pressure at the fuel rail? It should be at 40 psi. If it is much lower than that then the pump is bad.
What kind of plugs did you put in? Most suggest AC Delco but I tried them and I couldn't get my car to run worh a crap. I replaced them with autolites and now runs great.

notatoy

well i got it to start for a little while by turning the distributor and it ran like crap but it did run so i believed it was timing but i tried to start about 20 minutes later and nothig just spins over like it wants to.

the coil is new just put it on like 2 weeks ago and i checked the im but it was good f.pump is priming fuel pressure i have not check so the only two things i can think to check is the fuel pressure and the timing but maybe yall can think of some others.

micali

iTrader: (1)

Is the fuel new? Have you checked the vacume lines to make sure they are not cracked or broken. That can make it run bad. I can't think of anything that will make it not start back after it had been running. I'd checking for spark when it's not starting. I hate intermitant problems.

notatoy

i had maybe a half gallon of old gas and put about ten dollars worth of 93 in and a bottle of lucas injector cleaner there is only one very small vacuum leak but i have been told that it should not make it quit the way it does i have checked the spark but of course it is good and gonna make me buy more parts for it lol the only thing i can possibly think is timing or maybe icm. icm is factory so maybe a possibility (055003 miles on car)

micali

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, the ICM can could cause this but if you had it tested then it must/might be ok. Mine tested bad on the first try. I guess have it tested agian, can't hurt. I'll keep thinking.

notatoy

well what about the timing i know it can also keep it from starting. it was at one point back firing out of the intake but when i turned it thats when it started up (duh timing) but now it wont start at all

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Backfiring indicates too much sp advance. You shouldn't mess with the distributor if you don't have a degree wheel. Base setting is 10 deg advance, get it back to base then move on from there.

notatoy

where it sat off factory line which would i guess be 10* is where it was back firing out of the intake at so i turned it in small incriments both ways to find out where it is at. but now the car merely spins so should i try putting a new timing set on it

micali

iTrader: (1)

I'm no mechanic but I thought degree wheels are for when you are getting the cam dialed in.

At this point I have my car timed by ear. I haven't done the loan a tool thing yet to get it just right but it runs fine. Your car should be "trying" to start when your moving the dist. not just turning over. That's if you haven't turned to to much on way or the other.
I could say it's the timing chain but that would just be pulled from thin air. You could spend the time to make sure it is ok since it is not something you rely on just yet.
When I would turn it over and a friend of mine would turn the dist. the car would hit like it was going to start and would only when I got it close to to the #1 spot on the cap.
When I was messing with my car I had the est unhooked but I am not sure if that was right or wrong. It is by the blower motor. It is connected with a single brown wire on both sides.

notatoy

i did mine by ear also because where it was it sounded to me like something was clattering so i moved it to try to get it to start and get rid of the noise

poppn

iTrader: (1)

i remember my nova wouldn't start after changing the cap and rotor. it would just backfire out the intake and the exhaust. turned out i had the cap on 180*. i'd check that just to make sure

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Where was the noise coming from? Top of the engine, or front of the engine.

There is nothing that clatters that can be fixed by spinning the dizzy.

Also do a compression check on the engine, and while doing that make sure you have spark at the plugs.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You use a degree wheel to get sp timing correct also. It's all based off crank degrees so 10 degrees advance is 10 degrees before the #1 piston reaches TDC.

notatoy

noise was coming from top so im hoping it was because it was just out of time and im hoping that is the main problem

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Ive never seen a motor clatter due to out of time. If it was coming from up top, Id say the rockers are loose, or the cam has rounded off.

notatoy

but with what little knowledge i have about engines it should not be the cam rounded off with only 55K on the engine and what i was told it prob was the valves smacking the pistons but i dont know

poppn

iTrader: (1)

it has got be to something that you looked over, something simple. start with the basics, check for spark if you haven't already. check for fuel.

just pull a plug and hold it to the block while someone cranks it over, you should get a nice strong blueish arc between the plug and the block. if you don't then it's most likely an ignition problem.

check for fuel. my firebird is my first fuel injected car so i don't know how to go about checking the injectors, but one easy way to check for fuel is to pull a few spark plugs out and smell them and examine them. do they smell like raw fuel and look wet? if so then you are most likely getting plenty of fuel.

remember, go with the basics, the car only has 55k on it. you'd know if it was something really serious.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

My first cam that rounded of, rattled. This is a non-interference motor so the valves can not smack the pistons. Even if that is possible, then you could toss that motor. Top end rattle has something to do with the rockers.

You could also check the timing chain by hand/ratchet turning the motor both ways while watching the dizzy rotor button to see how much slop is in it. GM recommends these motors to change the chains at 30k. But many have made them last tell 100k.

Start with spark
test compression(depending on answer here, may be time to pull valve covers and figure out whats rattling)
test chain
then look at fuel
then look at timing being way outta wack.


thats my

notatoy

well i tested the compression and cylinders 3 and 5 hold only about 90 lbs cylinders 1,2,4, and 6 hold about 150lbs so i am going to replace the head gasket and see what happens

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

It could also be a sticking valve or bad piston rings, check there too. If you don't have the cash to replace them you can put some 'Restore Engine Restorer' in the oil, but you'll have to get it running first.

notatoy

does that engine restorer really work though

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I swear by it. It actually improves compression and oil consumption by filling in scratches in the cylinder wall (or valveguides) by impregnating them with metal particles- instead of changing the oil viscosity like gimmic oil additives.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Pull the valve covers and have someone crank the engine while you watch the rockers. A loose rocker will cause loss of compression.

kurfbird

iTrader: (24)

squirt some oil in the low cylinders if the compression improves its the rings. If not then the valves could be bad. Would probably think that its the vavles with no improvement in compression.

notatoy

IF it is the rings can you pull the piston up out of the top instead of the bottom or do you have to go from the bottom

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You can pull them from either direction, but you have to drop the oil pan to get the rod caps off anyway and there's probably a wear ridge at the top of the cylinder that has to be cut to get the pistons out.

kurfbird

iTrader: (24)

ANd one you remove the cylinder you will have to hone the cylinder and clean up all the metal shavings from the honing. WOuld be better to remove the motor becuas eyou will ahve to remove the bearings and crank

coldblooded

after 5 years i wouldnt be surprised it the rings are just stock to the cylinder, they may yet work themselfs loose, and to be honest the kind of engine work some of the guys are talking about here, its probably going to be cheaper to just get another engine, ive seen the 2.8s and the 3.1's sell out of running cars for less than $500 with warrentys. that choice is yours if you plan to keep that motor for the long run, then putting the money into rebuilding it is worth it, but if your like many v6ers who plan to rip it out and slap a 8 in there, i would probably go the used route.

anyways, ive had the same problem with a few motors ive gotten used and what not, among the things ive found to be problems

#1 not getting spark at all the plugs this was actually a car i put a new cap on too, the dist itself went to junk, pretty easy one to test.
#2 fuel pump working but injectors/carb is not putting out the fuel it should be.
#3 timing chain slipping, i would realy check that one out, could even be your noise.
#4 again back to the fuel, make sure the motor is actually getting the fuel, ive had clogged filters, colapsed lines, cloged screens on the pump(pump still kicks on just isnt getting enough fuel)

Mofur

Ok, no were in here did I see if you checked for spark or fuel. I could be mistaken if you had, But never the less if you haven't checked for fuel and spark then you should, and never move on in you diegnoses of you problem until you have. One reason being that these are the too main essential parts to an internal combustion engine running. and second due to the fact they are the easiest to check. So I would suggest doing this before you pull a head or try to drop a piston. and state what is happening when you are checking for them. And also one stupid thing I would check is the wires somethimes you can brain fart and if they are switch up on acaident, then its gonna act like the timing is a 180 off or friken back fire or what have you. just some thought.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Actually we're only talking about $250 for a partial rebuild. And that's if he decides he wants to do a rebuild, he could go the cheap route and just use some engine restorer and maybe spend $50 total. It depends on what the problem really is, so to repeat what Dale said-

Start with spark
test compression(depending on answer here, may be time to pull valve covers and figure out whats rattling)
test chain
then look at fuel
then look at timing being way outta wack

Mofur

Are you talking about the top end of the motor or a general re ring kit? Ether on is going to cost more than $250 if done corectly due to machining. the heads should be resurfaced and all other tollerences need to be checked. so I would half to beg to differ. and do you have all the tools to do it on you own? if your going to re ring it you should always check the cylendars with a bore gauge and check for out of round tolorences befor reassembling. And if they dont then machining is going to be requiered. Or taring down the engine is just not worth the hassel if you dont have the cash for this. thats why I would suggest checking everything like bl85c has stated because thats going to be the only cheep way to go about this issue without rebuilding an engine. oh and the stock injector rust bad and fail quickly if not used for a period of time. I replaced mine do to a studering engine and poor acceleration that was caused by the car not being driven for about a year. Accel makes some aftermarket injectors that are quite nice and do a lot for the smoothing out the engine.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I assume he wants to do this cheap, so aside from a minimum hone other machining work (unless truly neccesary) can be put aside. New rings/hone, rod & main bearings and a general tuneup could be done for $250- if he has the tools. It depends on how bad off this engine really is, but it's only got 55,000 on it so I would imagine that it can't be too bad.

notatoy

well ok i have checked compression fuel and spark spark is good fuel should havent checked pressure but it should be good new pump and new filter i just put on a new head gasket on the left side so it should have fixed compression (i hope that was it) the only thing i can think of now is the timing but thats just my thoughts

notatoy

ok the only thing i know left to replace before i do the timing is the fuel pressure regulator do any of yall have any other suggestions