bookrat

I have a 91 3.1 and i'm thinking about replaceing the stock ones with the ford 2.9 injector. I've read a few posts where it says that the computer needs to readjust for the new injectors. How long should this take? Is there a certain amout of time that the battery needs to be unhooked? Also would putting these injectors in increase my gas mileage?

jstrdn90rs

I got a stock set of GM injectors for a 3.4 motor if anyone is interested in those..to big for my 3.1?.I also have a set of fiero injectors that dont look very good maybe need reconditioning,got them from a junk 2.8L..dont know why I kept them?if anyones is interested in those let me know..i will trade for something too.Just pay the shipping if your out of town.

jstrdn90rs

Once you rehook the battery back up after installing the injectors ..you do a Idle Relearn Procedure and wait till the fan comes on..etc. I didnt have any problems there.I think the time to unhook the battery is like 30-45 seconds but I always just wait a minute or two..I dont know if you would see an increase in mileage ,but you would feel the difference.Big improvement..at least for me it was..very noticeable..in idle and take off.But you shouldnt have any problems with the computer..once you cycle the key off/on so many times and drive the car ..the computer will start to fine tune everything.

bookrat

How do you do the Idle Relearn Procedure?

jstrdn90rs

goes like this ..rehook the battery ..block the wheels unless you have a manual trans then just start it up.If auto place in drive and let it idle until the fan comes on usually takes awhile..I usually grab a soda and sit in the drivers seat in case the car wants to jump over the blocks and drive through the house..once the fan comes on ..turn it off.wait a few minutes and restart it put it in drive again and let it idle for about 4 minutes and your done.If you have a manual trans.your lucky you can go in the house and cool down...and dont turn any accessories on that would load up the engine?

bookrat

I just received my injectors and there was a note in the package that said I should clean the throttle valve and idle controller. Does this apply for my 3.1 camaro? I was looking in my chiltons manual and I could have missed it but didn't see a reference to these parts.

jstrdn90rs

Wouldnt hurt to clean them if its been awhile?..Use some throttle body cleaner though..dont use carb cleaner or something similar..might hurt your O2 sensor.I like to use an ol' toothbrush to clean the backside of the throttle body.Did you get the stock GM injectors or did you go with the Fords?

bookrat

I got the ford 2.9's. Since i cant find the throttle valve and idle controller in my chiltons manual i'm not sure where to start looking

jstrdn90rs

Pull the air snorkle off the throttle body.(runs from the air filter to the top of the intake or plenum).Once you remove it, the throttle valve is right there in site(round circular plate)you can rotate it by the throttle cable to hold it open to clean it.The IAC is on the opposite side of the cables..but to clean it you can take the IAC valve out and clean the tip..but just dont push or pull on the valve.Just clean the tip and re-install it.The passageways are under a cover on top of the throttle body and can remove that and clean it.Just be careful to try and not split the gasket cause you will be looking for a new one.It might be easier to clean it once you remove it when you do the injectors cause the whole top of the intake will need to come off?.your call

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

As long as we're on the subject of 'cheap' mods I thought I'd bring up a link to this thread. Checked my distributor and it has a crap module, might want to consider upgrading yours.

blindreaper1226

[quote=threepointone;3756758]Mine are in the mail now- $81.75 shipped and they're reconditioned!

Just 210 left, lol...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...3756.m20.l1116[/quote

On the ebay ad from this link under specifications it lists the the Flow Rate: 144cc / 14lbs/hr. I thought a 2.8 stock had 15lbs/hr injectors. I don't know much about injectors so I wanted to make sure before I buy these off ebay.

Blue1989RS

I know I always say this when fuel injectors are brought up but I'll say it again. The 2.8 uses a "pintle" style fuel injector thats 15lb/hr like you all have said. If you go out and get a set of fuel injectors from a 3100/3400 cavalier, lumina, or berretta you will find they will have 17lb/hr "disk" style injectors. You will see a difference in the design if you look at the bottom. Pintles have a single hole for fuel, disk have 6. Disks have superior atomization over pintles and flow way more. GO GET THESE. I have no idea why you would put ford parts in your car when the chevy parts will work just the same and designed for the same fuel rail. Not to mention, has anyone talked about the fuel injector resistance yet? If you go too low you will burn out your fuel injector driver resulting in the purchase of a new ECM.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't running 17lb injectors in an ECM that's expecting 15lb result in running extremely rich?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Yes they would. But the 3100 should still have 15lb ones in it. Should be fine for 2.8 and 3.1's.

Ive had ford pintile injectors in mine for the past month. Holly crappy milage. They will be getting pulled soon.

Ford does make some that are still disc style. Just gotta watch what you get.

Blue1989RS

My experience with the 17lb/hr is that they have much better regulation at low duty than the pintle. This means it runs better at idle WHILE giving way more flow at 80%. Win-win for disk! I wish I had a picture of the fuel pattern for both. You'd want them if you compared them.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I have seen the pattern. And yes, the disk is better. But still, ford uses both styles. You just have to pull the injector and look to see what it is.

The fords I put in are pin. And yes, I lost about 6mpg

Blue1989RS

Hey Jay, I know we're both on the same page with the injector thing. I hope it didn't seem like I was trying to bicker with you.

The only reason why I would ever go to a ford injector is if I needed a 30lb/hr or bigger. On the V6 there are many GM injectors to grab at the yard that would work great.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Just wanted you to know not ALL of them are the pin type. Thats it.

I'm not opposed to going to ferd parts as this is the second time I have. Didnt come out as good as the first time. So I intend to switch back to stock tell I can get ahold of something else.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I pulled disc-type injectors, you may have to look at a few vehicles to find them. I just got lucky.

RSFreak

How many lbs do 3800 injectors flow? Thats what I'm running on my 2.8L. They're out of a '98 Camaro.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

19lb, I believe? That's quite a bit of fuel for a 2.8 that runs 15lb stock.

RSFreak

The car runs great, but I did notice a drop in mpg. I swapped the injectors because my stockers had 160k miles on them and my buddy was parting out the 3800 from his '98 Camaro (he hydro locked it and ended up bending a rod while trying to start it. His insurance paid for a new engine and the dealership gave him the old one back) and gave them to me free. I plan on turboing this car so the bigger injectors should help.

zs&tas

how do you tell the difference ? pics ?

chevyracingrox

I put F1ZE injectors on my car today. I'm pretty sure they're the pintle design. thanks to eeeeefirebird for the fuel rail, and 2.8RS for the injectors. sounds different, and I haven't had it running for more than a few seconds, but I'm a little afraid of another fuel leak leading to another fire. isn't leaking yet though. I hope I don't need to put my old injectors back in because the performance increase is incredible. A lot better response. A LOT!

draco

2.8RS, do you still have those injectors? Can you figure shipping for me to 26101?

jstrdn90rs

Cool Glad to hear another crossing over..although I dont like it but it works??I just wanted to add to those who want to install a adjustable fuel reg. I got a BBK one for a TPI on my ride..just need to ditch the longer screw for a shorter one cause the upper plenum hits the longer one.The only downside is you cant adjust it with the upper intake on which sucks but it still can be used on our V6's ..just set it before you put all back together.You can also make one out of your old one too.

chevyracingrox

well, I don't know what it does to milage yet, but it seems to be a lot more responsive.

jstrdn90rs

Dont know why everyone gets worried about mileage?..if i lose a bit on MPG but the car runs and responds 10X better why complain.If your really worried go by a 3 cylinder Geo?.Everyone also complains about Ford injectors in my GM ..I rather have GM too..but theres cars out there with 200K plus with the stock injectors and GM cant make it past 100K with these injectors.Even if you replaced with them with stock ones..think they will go past 100K again?...Thats my opinion some may disagree and thats fine but I an't taken mine out unless someone else has a better design...that will fit my rail.

Blaze of Glory

I think there are a whole lot of people care about a few MPG. My Firebird is my daily driver. If this was a car I only drove every once in a while I wouldn't care so much.

I have been documenting my mileage for the last few months. I just got a new set of F1ZE disc type injectors. I'll report back in a few weeks. Currently I get 21.8 MPG (~70% HWY).

jstrdn90rs

I understand where your coming from Blaze..but what other options do you have?..lets say your mileage goes down with the Ford nozzles..what are you going to do put the stock ones back in at the price they are asking for a new set or have them reconditioned and hope they go past 100K if your engine makes it that far?.I just dont care for them..bad design..more or less not the spray pattern or tip design but the coils I think are the problem area.I drive mine everyday its just a back and forth to work car..I havent checked my MPG's cause I am still in the fine tuning area with a new cam and just had exhaust done...getting ready for a transgo shift kit and new pan.So I an't going to bother until I finish all these upgrades.But I would like to hear what your getting as far as MPG's.Has anyone actually checked MPG's with stock verse the Fords?.It wouldnt be too accurate either cause their so many other components that affect MPG's.

Blaze of Glory

Well I was a little surprised when I pulled my old injectors. I was under the impression that our stock injectors where the pintle type. Mine are the disc type.

Here are some closeups of my stock injector:


Here is a closeup of the F1ZE and a side by side.


As you can see, my stock injector has 6 holes tiny holes, and the F1ZE has 4 holes that look much larger. Also, the stock disc looks much further back. Well, I'll post my gas mileage results after a few fill-ups.

chevyracingrox

well, I took out those injectors. 2.8RS are you sure you got the right ones? they're pintle design and the car runs reeeeeeeeeeeeal rich. maybe they're 17lb/hr. but it doesn't matter because about 4 were leaking so I took them out. I'm going to try and find disk type F1ZE injectors in the junkyard whenever I go next.

startercar

I'm waiting to see what you guys say about MPG...sounds like a great upgrade though. Sounds unanimous though...make sure we get the disk style.

But I thought the stock were pintel style...yet Blaze's stocks are disk...

Dunno?

chevyracingrox

stock is pintle, but the design we want is disk. blaze has a 3.1, so its very possible that they changed the injector style when they changed a few things for the 90-92 models.

bigjake

I've got an old 87 aerostar in my ford graveyard that has a 2.8 v6 which i think is the same cologne family that your talking about. As soon as I get a day ill pull em and see if they are usable or not. Great info here guys.

nd4spd42085

had anyone ever put the 3.1L injectors in a 2.8L?

zs&tas

anyone had experience with accel injectors ?

nd4spd42085

accel makes good products... I have an accel ignition system in my firebird. I installed a set of accel injectors on a 4 cylinder that ran great for 4 years, then the car was sold, although I'm sure they still work just fine...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Check this page for average flow rate comparisons:
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.co...ge/4782443.htm
For the 85-89 2.8 injectors, look up GM 5235136. 15.4 #/hr.
For the 90-92 3.1 injectors, look up GM 17084888. 15.4 #/hr. Also, some injectors may be P/N 5235210, 14.65 #/hr.
For 3.4 injectors, look up GM 17109826 (what I received on mistake when I ordered a set in Feb...). 18.2 #/hr.
For 3800 injectors, look up 17103146. 19.2-21.4 #/hr.
For interchange and part numbers:
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.co...INJECTORS.html and http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.co...ge/4527999.htm

Ford: F1ZE: 14 #/hr. Give or take, greater electrical response (correct me if I'm wrong) with loss of fuel flow... I'll stick with GM, personally, or Bosch.

BTW, as for Accel parts: Don't like them. I have a junk $45 ign coil sitting in my garage. Others on here have used the fuel injectors and have ended up wasting $300 because they burn out so fast.

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

The 3.1 injectors worked wonders for my 2.8 back when I swapped them in. Tried the Ford injectors, kept leaking, but when I got them to not leak for a day they were OK, the 3.1s were better I thought.

Blaze of Glory

Hey guys,
Sorry it's taken me so long to post my results...

First the qualitative observation.
I immediately noticed the idle smooth out and the car seemed to respond better than it used to. My idle wasn't too bad to begin with and overall my car had been running well. But with the new injectors, my car just "felt" like it was running better.

Now the quantitative.


It looks like the new injectors improved my gas mileage by a little bit. Although, I think the results are close enough that I would feel comfortable saying my mileage stayed the same.

My old injectors had 135k miles on them, so it's possible that any improvement was due to having a brand new set of clean injectors. Would putting in a brand new set of stock 3.1L injectors yielded similar results? I don't know, but my biggest fear going into this was that the new injectors would a) leak b) kill my gas mileage c) run like crap d) all of the above.

It has been two months, they haven't leaked, my gas mileage got a tiny bit better, and the car runs better than it did before. I'm happy.

Keep in mind that my stock injectors are the 3.1L disc type. Based on what I've read, it seems most peoples stock injectors are the pintle type.

Your mileage may vary.

zs&tas

Good work :-) nice graph. i might start a similar graph when i get mine built up with its 3.4 injectors just to compare......

89rs2.85speed

ok after reading this i have a few qestions for anyone who can answer them for me i just replaced all my gaskets from the intake up so im about to put my injectors back in i have a set of the ford injectors was wondering if any one had a way to do a quick clean i dont wont to send them out or buy new ones i picked these up at a junk yard and they are dirty

second do i use ford or chevy oring in a 2.8
thanks all

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

What injectors are they? You can clean them off with a toothbrush and some wd40. Use the chevy o-rings.

89rs2.85speed

they are off a bronco 2 2.9 i notice one of them has a cracked in the plastic casing on the outflow side can i replace the plastic part or is it ubared

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You mean "fubared"?

The plastic case is there to seal off the coil. Chances are it's been exposed to the elements by now- better to replace.

LostNocturne

Sorry to drag up such an old post, but I was wondering how everyone's injectors are doing two years down the line. Did those ford ones ever present a problem for anyone other than 2.8? Was gas mileage improved or worsened for anyone? Would anyone have done anything differently? I'm thinking of running out to the junkyard today to pick up a set of these injectors. Did anyone find anything that they could purchase from a parts store that ran as well (I'm not sure where my junkyards are and I would don't know if I would be able to pull an engine apart without fubaring it). I suppose I could walk into advance auto parts and give up my left leg when I asked for replacement injectors for an 89 Bronco... I'd rather not do that.

86ttopbird

I am still using the Ford injectors in my car and have no issues what so ever. I find that the idle quality is 200 times better than with the stock Rochesters and as for mileage, it seems to be alot better. Now my old injectors were hosed so the improvement is obvious.

LostNocturne

Well, I'm sure that mine haven't seen the light of day since they were installed at the factory (125,000 miles ago), so anything would be an improvement.

jstrdn90rs

Still going strong!!...I wouldnt of done anything different.I have had them off a few times to adjust or play with valve lash, but they seal up everytime I put them back on?.my car isnt a daily driver but everytime I start it up it idles great....aside from the crappy lifters that came with the mtc-5 cam?