forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Continuing from this thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...3-4l-junk.html

I decided to go ahead and do this the right way, so the engine is getting rebuilt from the ground up. Took everything to my machine shop; they magnafluxed everything, cleaned everything, miked everything, ground the crank and called it all good. They cut me one heck of a deal, because I'm the grandson of the best machinist that shop has ever had(their words, not mine): $340 for everything. That's including the price of rings and bearings installed. For another $100 they're assembling the short block for me. Should have it all back in about two weeks, tops.

Got the 17# injectors, thanks to Dale, just need to get some new o-rings on them to be on the safe side(got a buddy who can get them from GM for $8 for the set). Still need a gasket kit. Reusing the timing chain, cam, lifters(to avoid cam breakin, since the old one only had ~1200-~1500 miles on it), oil pump(and pickup screen). Sticking with the standard 3.4L crank and pistons, as well as the standard heads; no work done on them. This is a stock rebuild, minus the cam.

It's gonna nice to have this one back on the road.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Please, please, please replace the timing chain. I'm all for re-using good parts, but timing chains are not good to re-use if they have EVER been run.

It's just too cheap not to replace the basics. Your minimum overhaul should be rings, bearings, gaskets, timing set, and oil pump. If you take your oil pump apart, clean and measure everything for spec and it passes, then use it. The timing chain should run 30 bucks or so...
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...pe=166&PTSet=A

and oil pump should be less than 60 bucks...
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...pe=151&PTSet=A

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

I've been told both ways about the timing chain by multiple people. The oil pump I'm using has the same mileage as the timing chain.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

You should not take any more advice about cars from someone who says it's okay to re-use a 191k mile timing chain that's been removed!

yeeeeeeeeeeee

Stock timing chains are reliable to about 80k miles MAX. After that, if you take it off throw it in the scrap bin. Even double rollers stretch and throw the timing off after 80k sometimes.

Buy a new one. It'll be the best 30 dollar insurance policy you've ever spent.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, I must have not worded it correctly: All the parts I'm reusing are from a 1200-1500 mile 2.8 I rebuilt. Undersized main bearings went into the engine and rather than spending the money on fixing that, I opted for a 3.4. So the timing chain, cam, lifters, oil pump, etc, etc only have 1200-1500 miles on them. Well within the "reusable" period. Everything else is new: bearings, rings, freshly checked and machined parts.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

My fault, that was in the other thread...

Yes, definitely use those low mileage parts. I am willing to re-use them up to about 25k miles, myself. Roller cams get re-used FOREVER, and I will actually mic flat tappet cams and continue using them until they have lost their specs.

I think you will have to break in your cam again. Make sure you have plenty of that moly cam break in lube slathered all over the place!

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Shouldn't have to re-break in the cam if the lifters are located on the same lobes, am I wrong? (flat tappets should always go on the same lobe anyways)

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

That's what I've heard.

I'll have the shop mic the cam before they install it for me.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Them are 17lb injectors I sent, which is stock for a 3.4. Were you wanting the 19lb ones?

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Nope, typo on my part. Fixed now.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

ok, just making sure I sent what you wanted.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

1) There's a piece that attaches at the back of the LIM, runs a metal line to the fuel rail. What is that piece? I need the o-ring for it but have no idea what it's called.

2) How in the world do you remove the timing gear from the crank? The gear pullers I found all have the wrong thread. Should I keep looking for one with the right thread, or is there another method? The short block is already built, so I can't man-handle it.

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

you mean the timing chain sprocket on the crank?

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

Are you talking about the cold start injector? You could just find a 3.1 fuel rail and not even use it. If it is the cold start injector then it may just use a regular injector o-ring. I didn't mess with mine when I pulled the top of the motor apart over the summer.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Yes.

No 3.1's in the junkyard, so gotta use this rail and LIM. The o-ring was brittle.

Also, there's a gasket that sits between the fuel pressure regulator and the fuel rail--mine has holes in it and is deteriorating. What is that one called? FPR gasket?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

For the timing chain gear, they make a 3finger puller. Its a multi use tool so I'm not sure what its called. Go to a tool/parts store and you can rent one, or pay 30-40'ish and buy it.

The metal thing with two rubber holes, thats there gasket. Ive heard that the replacement SET for that is quite expensive. I belive I have some spares. And if you need me to look for a 3.1 rail this weekend at my parts yard. Let me know.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I have a set of 3.1 mani's and fual rail. Also a set for the 2.8, three sets for a 3400 and two from a 3500 and some other various parts

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Aye, I bought one and checked some others--all of them thread in the crankshaft, but have the wrong thread. I'll hit up AutoZone and see what they have.

I'll get a picture of the piece I'm talking about tonight to verify.

On the 3.1 manifold/fuel rail swap: what's the gain in removing the cold start injector? Why did the 2.8 have it and the 3.1 not? What sort of issues might I run into if I remove it?

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

It does exactly what it is called. It is just there to get the car started a little quicker on cold mornings I suppose. I guess you can think of it as a choke like on the carbed motors. You won't hurt anything if you remove it. May just take a couple of more seconds to start up and I'm not sure why the 3.1s didn't have it. I'm not even sure if mine works at all.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Like 2.8rs said. It squirts in a little extra fuel on crank up. Ive read of a few people removing them and it just takes a few extra cranks.

I just know it was not there on 3.1 MAP systems. I am guessing the ECM programing on the 3.1 is different and they set it up to spray some extra fuel from the regular injectors. The OBD2 system I am playing with has that.
----------
The one I have does not thread into the crankshaft. It has a pointed end on it. Now if you got a fancy one that is pull and press, it would need to be threaded.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Alright, I like the idea, but I'll pass on it for now. I'll wait until a 3.1 makes it's way into my junkyard before doing the swap. I've got other plans down the road that will require removing the intake again anyways.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

I need some major help with gasket interchangeability.

I bought a full gasket kit for a 2.8 and quickly realized some stuff doesn't change over. I can't even order a single rear cam gasket, except through the dealership. Then I found this: http://www.partsamerica.com:80/Produ...tNumber=CS9471

It seems to contain all the bottom end parts for a 3.4L block. I also bought a set of head gaskets for a 3.4L. Will an intake manifold gasket set for a 2.8 complete everything I need? Here's a link: http://www.partsamerica.com:80/Produ...pe=102&PTSet=A

Dale

iTrader: (12)

93020 is correct, assuming your not using fiero Valve covers.

9471 looks like it has your oil filter mount gasket, RWD water pump gasket, timing chain gasket, and looks like rear cam bearing.

Looks like winners to me.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Nothing else should be needed? I'll be taking the full kit back and exchanging it for both of those. I can't think of anything else I need that I don't see in the pictures of those two.

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

Looks like those sets will work fine for you. If you don't already looks like you will need an oil pan gasket.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Got the engine mostly built. It gets dropped in tomorrow. Pics are attached.

Still having trouble getting the dang damper installed. My uncle said to hit it with a rubber mallet, which got it sort of on, but nowhere near entirely; subsequent hitting isn't doing anything. Any tips?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Use the crank bolt to pull the balancer onto the crank. Using a hammer is a no-no. A little grease or assembly lube on the crank snout might not be a bad idea. Once it's seated you can blast the lube off with carb cleaner.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

^^^ Yep. You can damage your thrust bearing beating on it. Not to say I've never done it before, lol, but it's not good. Use an impact on the balancer bolt.


EDIT: Looks like you painted it all pretty

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Next problem: I can't get the motor to line up. I have new motor mounts on the chassis side, but had the same problem with these last time on my old mounts: one side falls into place perfectly(pick a side, they both do it), but the other is about half a centimeter off. Picture attached shows it perfectly. I measured the far side of each bolt to each other: 17.25". Can someone go measures theirs and tell me if it's off?

EDIT: Decided to man-handle it...also decided to mount the driver side first, due to the lip, which the passenger side doesn't have. We then took a scissor jack, put it on the frame rail and the motor mount, and had it stretch... and IT WORKED! Pics are attached of the ******* engineering and the engine sitting in it's resting spot. Transmission isn't bolted up yet, hence why the hoist is still attached to the engine.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, the 60*'s are a pain to line up, I have even got one side aligned and put the bolt through and then pick the engine back up so it would tilt a little, then the other side would drop right in.

Looking good, though!

Actually looking in the pic, you could have moved the mount over some more. Did you match the location of the origional?

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

It was definitely a pain in the butt. The engine would not budge at all, no matter how we pushed and shoved it. The first conclusion was that there was frame damage and the motor mounts would never line up as a result. It was then that I got the idea to switch sides and use force to push it(would have done the other side, but the steering rack is in the way). I tried the method you just mentioned several times, and no matter what, it would not work at all.

But oh well, it's in. Everything else gets installed tomorrow. I was really hoping to have her on the road by tomorrow, but it's looking like Monday or Tuesday now.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Camaro/Firebird motor mounts are a PITA. They never drop right in the first time.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

The chevy orange and black valvecovers really make it stand out. Looks good.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. There's more detail work going to be done on an extra intake set, and I'm still trying to decide if I'm going with back valve covers or the chrome ones from Edelbrock.

Also, does anyone have a spare cam sensor laying around? The one that came on mine was broken where the mounting tab should be, so I can't secure it. No more of these engines in my junk yard here. If not, what are my other options for covering this hole? Do they make freeze plugs in that size?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

You're on the right track with the freeze plug idea.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

So I accidentally bought a balancer for a 2.8, but realized it today, before I ever started the car. Good thing, too.

Problem is, the old 3.4 balancer was messed up and all the parts stores have their systems saying that the part isn't made anymore.

Anyone got a 3.4 balancer laying around?

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Somewhere along the line, I lost the bolts that secure the AC compressor's bracket to the driver head. Can someone either 1) post pictures of what they look like, complete with measurements or 2) send me what I need? My junk yard has no v6 engines in the yard.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't anyone have these bolts laying around?

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

I got rid of my AC and have the parts laying around here somewhere. Let me check and Ill get back to you. So you need the bolts that hold the bracket to the heads, right?

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Yes sir. I have the bolts that hold the compressor to the bracket, but not the bracket to the head.

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

I just was looking for the bracket for the last half hour, thinking that the bolts were with the bracket.......figured out that I had put them back in the heads, which I walk by everyday
But all that matters is that I found them (2 bolts and a stud with a nut). How does $7.00 sound? Its about 4.50 to ship them.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Sounds good to me. We'll finish this up in PM.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Just finished up and got her to fire and stay running. I finally installed a set of headers I had laying around from many moons ago, only because I couldn't get the stock y-pipe to properly bolt up. Pictures coming later.

However, I've got a problem. At least, I hope I don't, but I might. What's the head bolt torque specs? The Haynes for the 3.4 said 41ft-lb plus a quarter turn in two stages, but if I remember correctly, my 2.8's manual was 92ft-lb in three stages. I followed the 3.4L Haynes. I'm hoping there was just oil on the ground, but a bit of coolant came out of a leaky drain **** on the radiator, along with some chocolate covered spots in it. It eventually turned to a dark brown entirely. Are my torque settings wrong?

Other than that, I still need to wire up a temp probe, fix some exhaust leaks and time it. As well as figure out a better oil sensor(the mechanical gauge's plastic tubing tends to crimp up and leak).

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Oil usually turns a pale color after being exposed to coolant for long enough. The torqing proceedure sounds correct, gm switched to torq-angle instead of torque spec to try and make torqing more accurate.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Okay, excellent. I think I realized what happened... the oil cooler line above the drain **** was also loose. They leaked at the same time. Silly me.