bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Man you need to do something about that exhaust note! Maybe it was just the internet but that sounded like a lawnmower! Mine isn't much better though.

Otherwise kick ***!

fst64_v8pwr

Very nice.. looks like a fun project

project89

iTrader: (1)

i was holding back but ill say it anyways, while it is impressive, it still isnt that impressive.
he edged out my 1/8th mile run by a small margin and it took more boost from a larger turbo and a bigger motor along with the magical 3x00 top end. doesent look like it was tuned near as bad as mine either hell i left a cloud of black smoke for half the lenght of the track the car was so rich.

no doubt it will get faster as it gets tuned but ......

anyways once again congrats and nice run mars

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

All I got out of my iron head 2.8 on 6psi and no n2o was a 15.1. That was all turbo though no work on the motor itself.

project89

iTrader: (1)

u should have been much faster for what u were pushing, 3.1 on 6 psi with my daughters mom driving went 14.0, and she cant drive to save her life

my junkyard under k setup went 15.0 with her driving at 5 psi on a bone stock 2.8 motor with the stock ecm

ill have to see if street lethal still has the videos he recorded of those runs the 15.0 was vs a 3800 alero or boneville, she just beat that damn car

edit

correction she can drive and handle a car she just cant drag race to save her life lmao

jensen73110

iTrader: (4)

Very nice!

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

That was at 5800ft. Sealevel would be 13.97.

project89

iTrader: (1)

still say u would have went faster then that at sealevel unless u were only using a full t3 turbo. but u did have a hybrid turbo on it right

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

No, just a junkyard t3 off a mercedes. I only put about $150 into the whole project not counting the other 2 turbos I experimented with lol.

project89

iTrader: (1)

ahh ok so yesy then ur low low 13 times would be correct with a t3/t4 at the same boost levels u could have pushed low 12's high 11's

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I guess you forget who Mars is? He is no noob to the track, or 660's Have you seen his Cavalier run?

You mean the 400hp "daves12secv6" that made 275hp, just as I predicted and Ben paid for the dyno session to prove?

Mars' car is still in testing with stock JY parts/motor, how can you compare to the highly modified (and cammed) iron head motor you had at the time of that slip?

Don't mean to come off as a jerk, but apparently no-one on this board is going to be as good as you. Should I clutter up someone's thread with the 2.5liter/Holset turbo car that just ran a 12.3@117mph with stiff-wall circle track Hoosiers, 2.0 60', fresh off the auto-cross track? Maybe post my slips and vids in his thread too?


Mars, I think it's awesome what you did (especially in the time frame finished)! Keep up the good work man!

project89

iTrader: (1)

cammed lol hardley cammed cam yes but it was a penut actually regardless for heads that flow oh so much more, quess ported irons flow just as much as the 3x00 stuff then huh

the slip was posted just for a comparason to see how it held upto another run that was only what .200's diff from his , wanted to see if his car was picking up better then mine off the line or if hes picking up down track.

quess the post came off the wrong way

and if u really belive the cars only puttin down 270 whp ur kidding urself do i have to bring up the fact that the entire pull timing was locked to 10* bdtc , hmm we all know what that does power wise it kills it.

granted the car went threw a cam change and some other mods when the 60-1 went on and was dynoed so no it wasnt the same combo that went 13.0 @ 9psi

and know what when i see somone do better then i have with something that isnt larger displacement wise or with more boost or a bigger turbo or the combination of all of the above like most that have gone faster ill be the first person to step back say wow really nice job, and see were improvements cam be made on my own stuff .

like i said 2 times already nice job mars get that thing tuned and rip off some more passes .if its tunned as bad as u say im willing to bet u pick up another .600's

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Just because people don't post here doesn't mean it didn't happen. A bored over 3.1l Gen1 block has been well over 400hp for years now in a Chevette. We bid on the job of making him 4-bolt mains, but he decided to keep buying blocks instead of investing the $$. A local Midget car I sold a 3500 block to has made well over 300hp N/A with a 3.4/3400 (guess that's not your class since the displacement is more). And again, we just missed the 11's with our 2.5l Holset car on circle track tires, and I know my friends Pure Stock Class Firebird is going 12.3's with a cam only at 275whp.

Anyways, I am very interested to see what Mars' car is going to do as I was watching streaming video of his Cavi last year (maybe yr before?) and know what he's all about...

/hyjack, back to Mars' station...

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Man, we need to line up at Cayuga and run, once i can get some traction that is....

Two, 6 cylinder $59 cars.

I finally have the IC installed now, so I can finally dial up the boost to where it should be. lol

This will likely have to wait for next year though, being back in school full time and working slightly more than part time hours, leaves little time and money to play at the track.

Why were you only running 1/8'. I know St. Thomas sucks and all, but I ran the full 1/4' there in my truck, when I went 13s, with it bucking and farting in high gear. 1/8' times should have been high 12.

mars061

they were only racing 1/8 mile for the turkey nationals.

The night before I went 13.5 @ 107 with street tires, with a 2.6X 60' time. hahaha it was fun.

About 15* of timing and lower than 10:1 AFR cause my WB was reading max rich bottomed out.

CHRIS, when we going racing some of us might go down south one last time Oct 23... You should bring the Z car...

There's a kid running C$59 in a beretta same turbo as me, he gave me his starter bin and it ran very well. He went mid 12's at 14 psi I think That was at the last event @ cayuga. So there are 3 of us out there...

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Sweet let me know if you do decide to leave your Northern abode for some racing.

I'll have to see how the wallet is looking by then too, I REALLY need to watch what I spend at least until I'm working full time again.


--==EDIT==--

Crap, I just looked at the calender, I think I have a wedding to be at on the 23rd.

mars061

My other 3400 car (supercharged) - now this thing is fun to drive on the street and pick on just about anyone. haha :





I hope the Camaro will beat it in 2011... I guess we shall see.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

If all else is equal as far as motor work, the Camaro should beat the Cavi - you know how hard it is to launch a FWD car lol, the Camaro has a 4' long traction bar!

mars061

I dunno, I think there's alot more weight there with the Fbody... I want to weight both of them one of these days.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Being light isn't everything, especially with a turbo.

I know of a few cars that have gone quicker with more weight added to the car than when they were lighter.

Seems the added weight, puts more load on the engine and turbo, which causes it to spooler quicker, and stay spooled.

The biggest advantage with the F-body is RWD.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

This. I was able to pull a 2.0 60' with 100whp and dry-rotted street tires in the 'bird lol.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

a stock Jbody can pull 2.0 60' times on street tires, once you start adding power it gets harder and harder.. iirc my best was like a 1.8 with the old engine.

mars061

Ahh crap, some MAJOR bottom end knock coming from the motor. Noticed it on my way home from work.

Pistons are all fine I think as the plugs were nice and had nothing on them.

Rockers and pushrods are all good, as I removed the valve covers and saw nothing out of the ordinary...

The car has been running rich for a while so maybe that did a number on the bearings. Also, this was a VERY sludged up motor when I got it. (still is)

Carnage pics to follow.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Aww that's no fun! Hardly got any use out of it.

mars061

Well it was a VERY VERY worn out 3400. I mean it was bad. The sludge inside the motor was nuts. I think I'm lucky I got that much out of it to be honest.

Im throwing the idea around of just putting my cavalier engine in it. Its ported and cam as well as the 70mm TB and 3500 UIM... I don't know yet.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I would go that route, personally.

Then if you wanted to sell the Cav a running car, just grab a stock 3.1, drop it in and go.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

FTMFW!

That Cavi motor in the Maro would rape the field!

project89

iTrader: (1)

im just curious but im starting to notice a pattern on some of the fwd block builds
is the oil pump between the fwd/rwd blocks the same ?
mars if its diff when u tear down the motor think u can snap a couple picks of the oil pump internals , just remove the bottom plate and take picks of whats under it.

also what is the usual rpm that thing turned ?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Oil pumps are basically the same. I believe the genIII oil pumps would be closer to the "High volume" RWD pump though.

What pattern are you seeing?

project89

iTrader: (1)

seems alot of the guys i see turning high rpm spin or catch a bearing on the rod journal with the fwd blocks.i doubt his tune being really rich had anything to do with it.it could just be like he said the motor was sludgy as hell. but its still something worth looking into

was thinking maybe its a cavitation issue if the pump differs in design from the rwd pump.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Well seeing the cranks and rods are identical in the 3400 as the RWD 3.1 and 3.4 I don't know what pattern you are seeing. Only thing I saw was when Dave was spinning his 3500 to 7k+ the rod bearings spun, but that's because the 3500 rods have the tangs machined on the caps and rods since the rod caps are snapped off (same issue the Modular motors have with the same design). Loner had no problem with rod bearing on his car, we never got a proper dyno of it, but it was well over 300whp when the trans spilled it's guts on the all over the rollers at less than 4k.

mars061

spun #4 rod bearing. Not any real carnange, just a loose rod and some alum. coloured oil... So no pics.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

good 'ol #4... that's the one that went in my old 3400. It was #1 in my 3500 though IIRC.


the engine from the Z would be fun for sure in the Camaro, i'm sure you could find a stock 3400 to throw in your Z like i did.

mars061

Plan is already made

low mileage 3500. Cam. good valve springs and a good tune.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

the Comp 26986's seem to work well and fit with all stock parts. the 26915's have a better spring rate but are pretty snug on the stock seats, i've got 4K on mine w/o problems though.


Should be worth 400+ HP easy, can't wait to see the times.

mars061

Yeah I have the 26986 ones in my 3400 now, I'll Xfer them over to the 3500. Im getting the 3500 this saturday.

20,000 miles 2006 for 250$. haha

and also going to order :

WOT TECH CAM : street/strip turbo

•265/273 adv duration
•216/224 .050" duration
•.506"/.506" lift @ 1.6:1 Rocker Ratio
•109 Intake Center Line
•113 Lobe Seperation Angle

I dunno about the specs, I am almost thinking a split pattern cam 220/220 or something along the lines would be better, but Ben seems to think that this turbo cam is the ticket.

I'll trust him.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

You'll also need a crank trigger, since the 3500 uses that 56x split reluctor wheel.

mars061

YeaH I'll just order the WOT one and slap it between my dampner and crank pulley. easy enough.

I just question whether or not I should get them stock sized forged 3500 pistons or just skip that and keep it stock.

I'd like to know what's the next likely thing to fail on the 3500 when being pushed to the limits, and fix that...

Looks like I'm getting a GT4088R turbo as well now too... so I can make some real power.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

You'll likely need to do a bit more than "just slap it between the pulley and dampner.

The pulley has an offset tang that locates it in center of the damper. The 3500 crank trigger kit does not appear to have provisions for this.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

I have an older version of the trigger wheel that i just cut the center hub out of, then drilled/tapped the dampener and bolted the ring to it. That way there is no bracket offsetting to worry about.


TCE is also making internal 7x rings, we haven't tested to see if the ICM will read the perfect square wave output from the 3500's CPS but you can always space out a stock CPS.

The 58x trigger wheel on the 3500 crank has the marks on it for the 7x firing, just have the machine shop transfer those to the crank so they can line up the new internal wheel.

mars061

Yeah I may even hog out the center and spot weld it to the back of the pulley. we shall see ? I'll have a good look once the parts come in. is it alum though ? haha

Note my 3500 is home now.

Not sure wheter or not re-use my 3400 UIM or use this new 3500 one. I'd just have to re-do the fuel lines slightly. Which ones better ?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

The trigger wheel wouldn't work if it was aluminium.

"Better" is debatable. Depends on what you want.

The 3500 UIM has a larger plenum, that also reduces the length of the runners, this should provide a better transition off idle and rev a little better due to the shorter runners.

I would try both and see which works better for you.

being turbocharged, I'd lean towards the 3400 UIM, get the nice low end torque with the longer runner, and the forcing of air will help in the top end.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I feel the 3500 plenum is better for boost since it's closer to the 150% plenum to engine displacement ratio, that's supposedly optimum for boost. It's been researched that 100-150% plenum to displacement for N/A is best and 150%-200% is best for boosted engines, of course this isn't taking the runner length-change being made.

mars061

So, new motor is here 2006 Pontiac G6 mill. only 29,000 km's. (and it shows the motor is clean) It was only 250$ so if it blows up again, not a huge deal.

Super cool oil squirters for the bottom of the 5&6 pistons :



It has the Forged Steel "7484" crank :



I've already installed the 26986 valve springs that were in my old motor. I'm just waiting for some random parts to show up and I'll clean it up and paint it all nice nice. I have to install a #10 turbo drain fitting in the oil pan (I can't install my 3400 pan on this motor, one of the bolt holes are different.) Install a cam and a new intake gasket set and go.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

that's the first '06 i've seen with the 7484 crank, before i'd only seen them in the '04 cars. Have fun trying to break that beast.

mars061

I went with the 3500 upper and 65mm Olds TB with a custom adapter plate that I made out of 1/4 steel. Ported the upper and lowers as well as worked on the 3500 heads a bit.

I just removed some casting junk on the intake side, polished (most) of the combustion chambers, the exhaust ports and de-shrouded the valves a bit. I was careful not to change the shapes of the ports as they look like they flow very well except the barf spots in the intake bowl area that I removed.



Not sure how to mount the trigger wheel yet. Dave you got pics ?

My CPS don't physically fit between the dampner and the pulley. It would need to be spaced out... I want to avoid spacing out the accesories. If only my trigger wheel was about 3/4" larger in diameter it would be money, but there's just no room for the CPS to "get in between" both pullies to get to the right distance away from the trigger wheel. The ATS underdrive pulley would be nice, but I wouldn't have enough wrap around my water pump...





so that's where I'm at. I have a long time to figure out the best way. I think I'll end up welding it to the outside of the pulley and space the CPS mount WAY out there... I'm very surprised no one has a RWD 3500 trigger wheel setup yet... would be real easy to do with a new crank pulley.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Kinda late, but you do know there's marks to machine the 3500 crank for a 7x signal right?

mars061

Are you boosted guys running 4" exhaust ?

I was thinking of going 4" with a bullet muffler and dumping before the axle, but a little worried about gnd. clearance....

It should be significantly quieter than what I have now... (3" sidepipe with no muffler)

Project 3.4 Camaro

4" exhaust is complete overkill, even 3" is overkill for most cars

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

I'm running 2.5" down pipe that dumps into a 2 3/4 under the car all the way back to muffler. On a lowered car we had to tuck it up pretty high for clearence