So I was wondering if anyone has modified a 2.8 that uses a mas air sensor & gotten it to accept a larger mas air off another car, or if the stocker is modifiable to get a larger diameter opening? Trying to see is a speed density swap is avoidable... looking for a 70mm or so alternative.

 

The computer swap isn't exactly avoidable if you're looking to change from your stock MAF. Problem with the stock system is that the MAF doesn't put out a voltage signal, but a frequency signal instead (digital MAF, not analog like most of the market has). You would either want to swap to a 165 from a TPI car or swap to a speed density system if you want more air flow.

 

is a 165 a TPI computer? And yes the speed density is probably the way I will eventually go. Just trying to push it back a bit. What about other GM Mass airs from similar years, would they not be the same style (digital vs analog). GM was usually one to keep parts similar across their lines. If the darn car was running I would just play around with some junk yard parts till I had a winner. Just figured I could not be to only one to have thought about a bit of crossover

 

The 165 is a TPI ECM. The 60* got the digital MAF across the board, while everything else with a MAF got the analog (AFAIK, someone correct me if I'm wrong). I think everything else got an analog MAF, and most of them are no bigger than the one you have.

 

TPI and a handfull of other stuff got analog how wire mafs while everything else got the cheaper digital garbage mafs. You should look into a '165 swap running 6E so you can use a 70mm t-bird maf. Here.

 

Not sure about the 3rd gens but for the old 1st gen Jbodies the SD swap was very easy.. just yank out the MAF, find the 2 IAT wires in it's harness and hook them up to one.. then swap out the chip.


Anyone have the stock bin file?

 

You either need to repin the existing harness & rewire for the map for the '730 or swap harnesses.

 

ugh.... rewire or repin... yuck... I was so hoping for a maf swap and a retune... if I do a computer swap I wanted to wait until I was sure if i wanted to go to a turbo or not...

so what mm is the stocker... looked smaller then 70mm... or am i wrong?

Nope not wrong.... I found an old test maf in the attic... i measured it with a tape measure. so not real exact but close enough... it was just under 7cm... 70mm... but it has all the crap electronics and tube inside taking up space. So its definitely gonna hold me back a touch....

 

The 165 swap is a piece of cake. And the Ford MAF swap is even simpler.

 

The problem with the stock maf is that it can't read more than 150 g/sec. Just a t3 at 6 psi will flow more than that. The ford maf will read 255 g/sec. What do you plan on doing with your motor? You won't see any gains from putting on a larger maf by itself.

 

Please... details on the Ford swap! I really want to know how to do this!

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...take-look.html


Read that thread. It has all details on how to do it. Best part of it all is the T-bird MAF is 70mm and can read up to and sometimes over 255 g/sec

 

I'm just lining things up in my head... But the final plan is a looking more and more like a 3500 top end on a rwd 3.4. But taking it step by step... Might just start with a bigger intake, or modify mine till i work out the computer logistics. Lots of planning and less doing while money is tight! If the ford one will work it could get me rolling with the bigger intake and maybe a small turbo. Then I'll go to the 3500.... and deal with a real turbo and computer! Like I said... just planning ahead

 

your best bet will be to get rid of the MAF all together if you build that hybrid.

 

Do yourself a favor and go with the Ford MAF if you are going to stay with mass air. The stock maf is just a bottleneck not to mention unreliable. Most guys switch over to speed density. i am a mass air guy myself.

 

nice... thanks! I will check it out tomorrow at work... be nice and quiet in the morn.

 

lol the author of said thread posted the link earlier in here And you are welcome.

 

I think I'll keep my 2d maf tables I can tune in an hour instead of 3d ve tables that take days.

 

this is what happens when you print it and don't read it all through yet... LOL...

reading.....

 

So I will need to switch to the 165 ecm in order to run the ford maf? Or can it be run with the v-6 ecm for now? Sheesh i have alot to learn about programming.. ugh

will the 70mm tbird maf flow enough for a modified 3.4 rwd swap... thought that engine (if intake flows enough) needs 360s cfm to really perform... reading too much.... agh I can't keep it straight... what about with a turbo? will it handle a basic turbo or will i need to swap computers again?

the memcal... is that what the prom plugs into... You take out the v-8 one and put in the v-6 one? glad I have a spare v-6 ecm... knew i kept it for a reason. Ive been prom collected from the junkyard for a while now so I could have different tunes on different chips and just plug and play. Can I still do that? is that what the memcal swap allows for?

 

Short answer is yes you need the '165 to use the ford maf. It should read enough to support a built 3.4 hybrid, but turbo will need more maf. I'm writing another version of 6E right now called power adder 6e that will support larger mafs and alot of other neat stuff. You use a memcal from a '730 ecm in the '165 and throw away the '165 memcal.

 

meh, tuning 3D tables is cake once you are used to it. I tuned 3 or 4 cars on a dyno last July in around 2 hours.

 

Do you use one of the ve tune programs? I've heard they cut down on tuning time pretty well. I was using code 59 awhile ago but the lack of use friendlyness turned me off.

 

Ive been reading all day on this and other options... I see where the 165 would be the way to go... is the memcal what holds the proms? I was told u can burn over stock chips w a new program. thats why I was collecting v-6 chips. Is this true and will switching the memcal allow those proms to be run?

 

Nope, i do it all by hand. I never like to rely on formulas from a spreadsheet to tune with.


If you research the engine before you try to tune it you can usually get an idea of how the VE tables are going to have to change. Head port flow numbers and cam specs will tell you quite a bit of the story.

 

The memcal holds the eeprom. You can get an ultraviolet eprom eraser, but the easier way is to use an eeprom like a 27SF512 and erase it with your programmer. If you don't want to remove the eprom from the memcal you can get a G1 adapter from moates.

 

Since you asked . The '85 TPI cars and the '89 3.8L V6 f-bodys also have digital MAFs.

RBob.

 

Thanks, RBob... I guess 85 was a screwy year for port injection across the board (FWD cars also had the digital MAF in 85). Guess I should thank GM as well for that .