If you want to just do the 2.8, this is the one:

http://paceperformance.com/i-5135118...tic-trans.html

Again, this price can't be beat for machine work and parts only...

Good luck

 

In a stright line, but when it comes time to turn, you'll wish for less front end push.

 

True, but an lsx only weighs ~150 lbs more I think, somewhere in the 100-200 range anyway.

 

So you spent over 1000 dollars in parts alone to get "up to" 200 horsepower? Is your next project to turbocharge a 3 cylinder Geo Metro?

 

that seems kinda expensive especially being 6 years ago you can get a crate for that easy i bet

 

Wrong, I spent it to replace a rusted out exhaust system, rebuild an engine so that its essentially a new engine from the block up AND to get some more power. And it would hold its own against your 305, so keep bashing. Eventually I am going to either hybrid and boost it, or drop an lsx in, atm I am just trying to get it on the road with decent power so it isn't a complete dog in the meanwhile, and v6 handling>v8 handling, and if you can think of a better use of $1k to put into a car than simultaneously restoring/rebuilding I would love to hear it.

 

I think you did just fine.

Keep it on the road; that is mission number 1!

 

The V6 haters should just move on without posting... this thread is beyond their level of comprehension.

There's two schools of thought for building up power in the engine... one says you create horsepower, and the motor doesn't ahve to work as hard to move the car, and you get an increase in MPG. They other, obviously say that you lose MPG when you soup up an engine.

for those of you that have cammed, cranked and massaged your engines... what kind of MPG are you getting? remember my goal is to make a reliable daily driver

 

Here's what I'm thinking of a plan, let me know what you guys think...

After doing a ton of reading, I'm leaning toward a remanufactured 3.4 short block, and then replace the cam with something more agressive. then I have an extra sets of heads here that I will take to a machine shop, and have them checked out for condition, and if they check out I'll port and polish them, or have it professionally done.

I'm not sure how much over the normal 160 those two things those mods will give me, but they both seem like pretty no brainer mods that should give me a little more power, but retain the function of the V6 that I like. If I get in the area of 175-180hp, i'll be thrilled.

I'll decide about headers and exhaist later.. I really don't care much for a loud car, and headers can be so darn expensive! I've heard a stock exhaust manifold can be opened up a little.. maybe i'll try that first.

Feedback on my conclusions?

 

only question i have is the remand block coming with a warranty? otherwise everything seems like what id do

 

here's the local place I'm thinking of using.. they have a good repuatation.

http://www.citymotorsupply.com/warranty.htm

for the difference in warranty beteween a long block and a short block, i'm tempted to just get the long block from them (it's only about a $300 difference) and consider porting and polishing their heads.

However.. now i'm up up to $1400, and getting closer to the $1800 crate price

Another question.. does installing a performance cam and polishing the heads void any warranty? If it does than I might as well get the short block

 

i dont think polishing heads will, cam prolly will, depends on the spec of the cam id think, id ask just to make sure

 

if thats the case, then I might as will go for the short block, and mod it without worry about any warranty. Im pretty sure my extra heads are good, but I can get them checked out before I ever have to make that decision.

right now my 2.8 is still running like a champ, but I like to research everything to death beforehand so I have a plan of action for the future.

 

You should get the crate HT 3.4, first off.

A reman is a crap shoot unless you have been dealing personally with the machinist who did the work. Even Jasper engines, man I have seen what they do inside that factory in Indiana to repair and make cores re-usable. Its really, really scary.

Start with the new engine. Its cheap; you can't beat it.

Now, the warranty is not going to be for that much time. So, while you are running the warranty out, save for the cam you want. Start buying your prom burning tools and downloading your programs, and of course reading tons and tons in the efi sections of thirdgen. Tuning is going to be essential for making your setup perfect. You must master it and it doesn't cost tons of money, just lots of time. I don't know about you, but I always seem to have more time than money. Once you have mastered your tuning abilities (or even long before that) you will really be able to see your gains for that cam and those heads.

Take your time and port your heads. Get the extra long extension for your dremel and hog out those exhaust manifolds! Headers won't make your car louder, by the way! Buy them if you want to increase power!

You need to have a custom y-pipe made from your manifolds to the cat to get your flow right. Your y-pipe is a terrible, cheap transition. I like the flowmaster 2 into 1 y adapter best, but use what you want. Of course you will need to make your choice between headers and manifolds before you have your pipe made. Get yourself a free flowing cat, then buy yourself a stock exhaust cat-back setup for a vin code F third gen (the 350 car) and bolt it on. The muffler and tailpipes can be had at the auto parts store and they are relatively quiet. They do flow more than your V6 setup though, and will let you gain a little power.

Take your extra intake manifold and port match it (port it out inside with your dremel) to your heads.

There is a lot you can do to gain power without noise. Having a solid foundation with that 3.4 will really help. Keep all of those good stock parts on the shelf and you'll have them to put back in case your cam change doesn't work out or your heads turn out to be crap. There is a lot of insurance built into that long block.

 

my wife thought I was nuts when I bought a busted engine for $50, but I've used so many parts off it already (plenum, valve covers, vacuum tubing, brackets, starter, and now many the intake and heads) that its turning into the bargain of the century. The guy even delivered it to my doorstep for me... can''t beat that

thanks for the idea about port matching the intake... I didnt think about that, but yep, I have an intake out there waiting on me

great posts and answers!

 

We'll be looking for you to return the favor later!!

Incidentally, I was just following your dash pad journey, that kind of stuff I need to brush up on so we are getting a good trade, trust me!

Oh, and if you are on a super, killer budget, don't be afraid to start with the 1100 dollar brand new 2.8. I would go for the 3.4 if I were you, but its not my deal.

I always get rid of my 6/60 engines by selling them or using them in another car (fiero or S-truck, even a Citation once!) project that I am flipping for funds to continue firebird-ing. This time I am going Buick V-6.

But I have to say that my 88 2.8 has 217,000 on it and still runs strong. My 90 3.1 had 248k on it when I pulled it and sold it to a guy with an S-10. From 87 on, these engines are very strong and reliable. Your 86 core engine is good except the block and crank. You will need to verify the casting numbers on your block and crank to see if you have the good stuff or not. From the first production in 1980 up until 1987 there was a change in the oiling system, block, and crank every year. They finally got it right for the 1987 release and some 1986 engines are the first of this run. I have seen an 86 2.8 Camaro with the same mileage as mine do fine, never one from 1980-85.

 

anytime! i learned a lot working on that dash pad, we all have our strengths...

i "think" the extra engine I have is a 88 or 89... it had a serpentine on it, and it seems exactly like mine, down to the injectors... it had to be very close

my first camaro I had (the one that went through two engines while I had it) was a 85

 

ok another million $$$ question... is ther anything about the 2.8 that makes it a better engine than the 3.4? I see a ton of 3.4's on CL with blown gaskets, but I hear there's aftermarket parts that fix the problem.

If i'm going for an engine I can get 200K out of, which one is a better platform?

 

There is NOTHING that makes the 3.4 any less reliable than the 2.8 or 3.1.

I think the 4th gen has a bit more difficulty cooling their engines than a 3rd gen does. It seems to me that they get hotter in the back of the engine and no provision was made to equalize the heat from front to back on any of the engines, probably because the problems outlast the warranty (that's just a guess.)

Anyhow, starting with a crate 3.4 that is new, there is no reason it can't do 250k miles like my 3.1 did, provided it is taken care of like mine was.

I still stand by the 3.4 HT. I have never heard anyone who got one say anything bad about it.

 

ok, thanks. my only beef with getting the crate is it seems a waste to buy a long block when I have heads and an intake that I can mod and get ready already over here for future use, but like you said, nothing beats the quality of a crate.

How dumb would it be to buy the crate, and then port and polish the heads and intake I get with it? I know that would kill the warranty, but I'd be doing that with the cam anyway.

Something makes we want to just install it as is, and enjoy to extra power I get from the 3.4, and not get greedy for more. I know the things I'm talking about can be done later, but they are always easier with the before you put the engine in

 

im not sure what to do either i have a 3.1 in my 1991 camaro with 250k and i use my car as a daily driver so i like my v6 cuz i get good gas mileage. what should i do its running great buts its only a matter of months because something goes its not gonna run forever. already put a new transmission alternater spark plugs/wires.

 

Well, first off this engine does not come with an intake that I am aware of. It was designed to be ready to drop in, you put your intake and distributor in it and roll. I believe it does have the oil pan, dipstick, and all that.

I think you should get one, do nothing at all to it except port match the heads only, leave them bolted on. Then, put your spare port matched intake on, and then your spare distributor. Drop it in.

While its in there running great and getting better mileage and giving you more power than you ever had, you can fix the other things that you need. You need a new cat-back system, even if you just use the stock vin code F 350 car system, you need the extra flow and it will stay quiet. Then you need a high flow, or stock 350 cat. Then you need a y-pipe that is decent because yours is horrible. Use one like this:

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ca...enty-pipe.aspx

Its a nice piece made for a V8 that your local exhaust shop can modify to hit your manifolds. You can use your dremel to insanely hog out your manifolds as much as possible or get some headers. Once your exhaust is done, you will feel your new 3.4 pick up some power without doing anything to the engine itself at all.

Oh, and changing the cam and heads on your 6/60 in the car is not bad at all. There is plenty of room to work in there. I'll bet you don't do it, though. Once you get your 3.4 in and running, and then get your exhaust 100%, you'll be so happy you won't know what to do.

And then you can start experimenting with the tuning...

Oh, and don't forget you'll need some 3.4 injectors to match the engine demand.

 

yeah, I though about that today... new injectors... boy, the cash regsiter just keeps on ringing, doesn't it?

 

Well, if you go to the wrecking yard, you can get injectors for next to nothing. Look in the V6 forum and they have the part numbers and cars that you should look for.

 

good point....

 

If you got a short block and used your heads, you'd have to make sure the heads you have were checked for straightness, checked for cracks, milled if necessary, hot tanked (don't want sludge/rust in your new engine), etc. Definitely don't want to put a warped head on a new block!

Port/polish the new heads... probably no problems as long as you reinstall the heads properly (torque wrench, etc) and are sure all metal shavings are cleaned out, etc. If it were me, I'm not sure if I'd do that or not.

Along the lines of what KrisW said, personally I like the idea of dropping the motor in first to enjoy it as-is, then later, start working on your head porting & intakes & cam & tuning and etc. Although instead of doing the mac y-pipe + stock manifolds I'd probably just get the v6 headers from Pacesetter.

For the junkyard injectors you can send them out to Rich @ http://www.cruzinperformance.com and have them cleaned up/flowtested.

Yes you could do it all at once but it just depends on how you like your hobby; some guys do everything at once and it takes them years before they turn the key on it (and when they do, they start another project)- other guys like me work on the same car all the time and are "never done".

 

Few things to chip in here, first is that the headers come with a Y-pipe, stock the car has a t-junction, its horrible for flow, also you can get a used set in the 200-300 range if you wait for one to crop up.
As for modifying a 3.4, thing with modding an engine or anything else on the car for that matter, is it doesn't make sense to buy parts you will just toss in favor of aftermarket, just something to keep in mind.
As for mileage gain or loss, basically, an engine is an air pump, anything you do to improve flow, makes it more efficient=more mileage, and more power, boost doesn't really apply to the concept though, but more or less if you build it up just a little and don't romp on it all the time you will see a gain, if you slap on a huge turbo and drive like you stole it, then yeah your mileage will suffer...
3.4 is more or less the same engine as the 2.8, if anything its actually a little more reliable, pretty sure the blocks are stronger.

Last but not least, if you get a 3.4 you should know that it has a fairly aggressive cam to begin with, if you swap to say a delta or comp cams 260 grind(the cam I have, not much more lift, but lsa is different) which is pretty much the biggest you can go without tuning, it will sacrifice a little bit of torque for a little mid range, your best bet is to go bigger, or keep the stock cam, cause looking back I am not quite happy with my powerband had I known the specs on the 3.4 cam I might have left it in there, the delta cam I actually pulled from my 2.8, but I don't think its any better. When I get to it, I need to go with a bigger cam and get a high stall tqc to get my powerband where I want it.

 

I've heard conflicting reports on using the 2.8 injectors. what happens if I use them?

 

I used my 2.8 injectors for a while but it was a little on the lean side. I bumped to 3.4 injectors when I did my cam.

 

Just saw the 3.4 gasket question....
Are you sure those weren't 3400s? Those fwd 3.4s had a problem blowing the intake manifold gasket. I had GM replace mine (on a N-body) under warranty and they used the stock crap gaskets. Then it happened on my dime and I fixed it right. The rwd 3.4 is as solid as the 2.8L.

 

It's possible.. I read it on the internet and you know how reliable that is...

 

You COULD use 2.8 injectors on a stock motor, it would run lean, but if you didn't drive it like it was stolen it probably wouldn't hurt it, but I would deff not do it with a modded 3.4, and honestly, wouldn't with a stock one, moment you add one mod its running too lean. Just hunt down some 3.4 injectors, much as it sucks I have like each and every other spare part lying about,lol.
Btw not sure anyone mentioned this, but the 3.4 upper intake manifold will have clearance issues with the dizzy, you have to use 2.8 mid and upper intake, just an fyi, there is a way around it though, pilsbry found a way to use the 3.4 intake with a dizzy so if you want to do that ask him, though believe it or not the 2.8 intake design is actually better...3.4 upper intake was like a last minute afterthought or something.......

 

yeah, since I already have an extra 2.8 intake, so I can open it up some in the meantime and get it ready.

as for the plenum, I want to reuse what I already have... I worked really hard to get it to look like this, so I wouldn't want it to go to waste, even if it does say 2.8 on it. I'd love to find an emblem to replace that circle in the center... maybe a bowtie?

 

a bowtie would be pretty sweet

 

I found out something interesting today...

I was concerned after reading this thread about the cost of fuel injectors for the 3.4, but I found out that the same fuel injectors for that engine were the ones that went in every FWD 3.1 GM ever made. you know how easy those are to find out there in junkyards.

I still might pop for a set of reman injectors, but it's nice knowing I have another source for parts out there

 

I don't think thats corect but since its the fwd maybe, if memory serves the 3.4 has #19.

 

I was going on the compatability charts from the oreilly website

 

heres what i prepose,buy a 2.8 long block and putit together yourself with old motor parts,that way you know what you put into it,and its basicly a new motor besides sensors and stuff or buy a long block and carb it makes the car 10000x easier to work on

 

the injectors for all gm v6 cars are the same,excapt the 3800s

 

a carb would make things easier, but I would lose too much MPG... I like driving this car every day, and I enjoy 25MPG

 

not according to any parts books I've seen

Look them up.. the parts numbers for the 2.8 injectors are different than the 3.4

 

u get 25 mpg in a 2.8 and my 305 carbed gets 22 with a 4bbl
buy a 2bbl carb and youll probly endup with 27-30 mpg

 

I don't think it works like that usually... but I'm intresting in hearing more

 

well put it this way a 2bbl uses half the gas and air than a 4bbl,so u lose power and gain mpg

 

but you only use the back two barrels when you stomp on them....

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm skeptical... I've never see a carb car get better MPG than the FI equiv. That's the whole point of fuel injection.

I'm sure others will chime in on this thread, one way or the other

 

just tryin to help cause in the long run carb is cheaper(no injectors,map,maf,iac,char can,egr,ECM,cts,vats,o2) none of these will go bad if there not there.

 

you don't have the sell me on simplicity... That's why I have a car with no power accessories...

also check out the other car I work on...you can't get a more simple engine than this...

http://ourimpala.com

 

No reason to go backwards to a carb unless your FI stuff isn't working right. Yours is fine so leave it as it is.

Go to the junkyard and get some FWD 3100 injectors. Later on, when its fuel pump time, you should put in a Vortec fuel pump and use a V8 TPI adjustable regulator to make it perfect.

That's all you need for now.

 

beautiful impala sorry for bein pushy

 

it's no problem man... I have nothing against carbs, but literally you're the first person I've ever claim that you can get better MPG using one than computer controlled FI. I wsa serious when I said I would like to learn more