58mark

iTrader: (3)

first of all,. let me say I have no interest in swapping a v8 into my car... if you are going to tell me to, save your breath. If I want a V8 car someday, I'll buy one.

Second, I'm not a racer. While I wouldn't mind a little more HP, I'm not willing to sacrifice thinks like a QUIET exhaust and Air conditioning to get there.

With those things out of the way, let me ask you all... What's the key to getting a good quality rebuilt v6? The last one I got only lasted me 10K before it threw a rod, so I'm hesitant to go there again. I've been looking at crate engines, but man, are those prices scary, and they seem to be built for the HP junkies

When the day comes that my engine wears out I will probably upgrade to a 3.1 or a 3.4, but even that isn't a must. (it's running great now, but I don't know if this is the original engine, or it's already been swapped)


I just want something reliable and tough... when I do this swap I want an engine that will start, run, and LAST.

Do you have to go crate to get one that will last over 100K?

MotorMouth

It's your money buy what you want and don't worry no one will give you any advice since you seem to have already made up your mind.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

the question was... is it possible to find a good rebuilt engine or not? To get quality, do you have to buy a crate?

cut the attitude or don't post

travis_henry

you can get a good motor built by a machine shop or buy a good crate motor depends on what way you wanna go.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

Is there anythingI should be looking for to ensure they are doing a quality job? What should I ask them?

travis_henry

Well it depends on what machine shop you go to. Like i take my stuff to Rex Hutchison. and man oh man they are an awsome machine shop. but any way. honestly depends o how much your willing to spend on the motor.

travis_henry

go to a machine shop and tell em to give you a quote on a basic full rebuild on a motor and what it will take to get it done and if its over your budget and takes to long maybe the crate motor is a better choice.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

ok, here's another question along the same lines...

I have an extra 2.8 engine here, I bought it just to get the plenum and a few more things off it. Is it cheaper to have somebody rebuild what I already have, or use that as a core and buy what they are selling?

travis_henry

If what you already have isnt blown up bad or at all it will be cheaper to build that. You wont have to go through the trouble of buying a new motor then having that motor built then you dont even know what the inside of it looks like. if you have somthing already just go with that and build that. maybe put a small cam in it or somthing for a little more torque.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

i don't even know exactly what was wrong with it.. which was why I practically got it for free... I'll try pulling the pan someday and see if I see anything obvious.

anybody in Dallas know of a really high quality rebuilder?

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I should put here that if I don't rebuild something I already have, I'll probably go with a 3.4.... probably worth it

travis_henry

if your serious about building that motor you got i would pull the pan and check the rods and mains, pull the valve covers and intake off make sure the rockers arnt broke and you dont find any mettal anywhere.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

heads and intake I already took off...nothing bad to report

pan i'll do soon... just to see where I stand...

if I want to go 3.4, then it's worthless to use that engine at all....

travis_henry

well its ultimatly up to you but it will be cheapest to do the motor you already have.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

well cheap isn't the most important thing.. I'd like the best value/quality mix.... ya know?

travis_henry

Well goin to the 3.4 you rele wont gain much honestly. just build that 2.8 up and you will be happy with that. just all depends on how much money you wanna spend.

jensen73110

iTrader: (4)

A $250 3.4L would be 25 more hp, and even more torque.

My 2 cents.... sell your extra long block and save it for a good 3.4. Rebuild that and throw a mild cam at it along with some bolt ons. Why? You'll love a 180 hp v6 vs the 135 hp v6. It's cheap, still reliable, and you'll like the car more even if you aren't a speeder.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

yeah, that's bascially what I was thinking. I may not MIND 135HP, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like 160 (or even 180)

I see 3.4's on CL all the time, but it's hard to know exactly what's wrong with them to begin with. any 15 year old engine can still have plenty wrong with it

travis_henry

Good point i didnt thik of it that way.

b4ccamaro

You won't beat the reliability of a crate. nobody puts a 100k warranty on it besides the factory. There are no used parts and no corners cut. I'm not saying they use the best parts out there, but they don't use the cheap crap. They put the cheapest stuff in that will run 100k.
A good rebuild shop can definitely build a good motor. But if you aren't sure, crate takes all the concerns out of it.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

thanks for all the advice...

I guess I need to find a texas based shop that comes highly recommended as a rebuilder, and see if they can help me. then I have to decide if I want to go 2.8, 3.1, or 3.4

Dartht33bagger

Are you trying to stick with a v6 because its DD for MPG or so you don't speed?

If you want MPG, I'd go with the 2.8 and drive it slow and steady for good MPG. If you don't want to be a speeder but you still want some power, get a 3.4.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I like the V6 because it's realiable, easy to work on, and doesn't have so muc power that I can not be afraid to loan it to my son when he turns 16. It's got enough power for what I need to do, so why change?

Camaro305SB

Junkyard engine. Its the only way its gonna be worth it. Throwing a rod at 10k is because of a poor rebuild. Find a factory engine with some miles on it and if you take care of it, it'll last. Use a 2.8 or 3.4. Absolutely no sense in swapping in a 3.1. Thats like using mid grade gas or synthetic blend engine oil.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

It's all such a crapshoot... how do you know the engine you're putting in isn't worse than the one you're taking out?

TomP

You'd have to tear the junkyard engine down and send the parts off to a machine shop to be inspected (cracks, straightness, etc). Sure you can see if a bearing is scratched up, but you probably won't be able to tell if the head/deck has warped or if a connecting rod is ready to crack & fail.

And by the time you've done that- you're halfway into rebuilding it yourself!

So my vote is to rebuild it yourself; machine shop would clean/check/bore/hone/deck/grind/straighten the block/crank/rods, press new pistons, mill & valvejob to the heads. Then you buy a rebuild kit from them (yes, from the machine shop), take everything home, and put it back together as one big puzzle.

You'll probably spend just as much though as if you bought a crate motor- don't forget miscellanous things like tools, engine hoist/stand, pizza, and all the miscellaneous parts (hoses, thermostat, snapped plastic connectors, timing chain set, pushrods, etc) and fluids (antifreeze/oil/trans/etc). You'll need those no matter which engine (junkyard, crate, rebuild yourself) that you choose.

Gumby

If you don't want to do it and want trouble free, just get one from a name brand company.

Jasper is a big one with places all over the US.

They are big sponsor in tractor pulling, they gotta know how to rebuild an engine right.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

Don't let people scare you away. Almost anyone who has their own building and all of the equipment to bore, deck, hone, etc. to a motor is normally worth their salt. All this talk about throwing a rod at 10k and what not is usually caused by either someone putting a beating on the motor or not breaking it in properly, or both.

Just like your doing here keep asking around and google engine builders in your area. If you talk to them and tell them what you want to do they should normally give you a ballpark estimate based on what you want done and know some common problems with that particular motor.

However I don't believe they will give you much of a warranty because normally they don't perform the break in procedure like crate motor companies do.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I don't know what to say... as for the old rebuild... I am certainly not a hot rodder, and I changed the oil like I was supposed to... I don't know why it failed, I wasn't even there when it did... my wife was driving the car half way in between houston and dallas, and left the car in a small city she limped it to. A garage told her she threw a rod, and the car had other problems and it wasn't worth fixing, so we just abandoned it

I guess when teh day some that I think I need a new engine... I try to hit up my local gear heads for their opinions about machine shops and rebuilders.

Jasper is a great tip, thanks...

90 camaro cj

IMO the price for GOOD machine work youll be better off with a crate motor, unless your building the motor to take a turbo (which your not) i think GMPP (part of GM) sells a 3.4 long block which would be perfect for you if u wanna upgrade to the 3.4 and it has a warranty with it

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I love this thread! everybody has an opinion, and a point. great discussion

58mark

iTrader: (3)

wow, I just looked up jasper.. they look amazing. any more along those lines?

jensen73110

iTrader: (4)

I think it's set up for a carb, if I'm remembering correctly.....
I wouldn't want to drop that much $$$$ just to change the cam and intake.

I have a local place with a good rep that quoted me $1200 for a rebuild. Slightly less if I bring them the cam, lifters, springs and extras that I want. Then again, I think that was 6 years ago.....

White'89

iTrader: (8)

Your probably best with a crate motor from what I can tell, unless you would rather contribute to the local economy which is what I like to do.

Just get a quote and go from there.

90 camaro cj

the 3.4 from GMPP is a long block meaning no intake. i dont know if the heads would bolt to his intake but i know that the 3.4 doesnt have one to begin with and changing the cam would be required eathier way to get power imo

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I heard that all 2.8 bolt on items will work on the 3.4, including the exhaust manifolds... not true?

90 camaro cj

im 99% sure they will, there both 60* gm v6 it should be like a 305 compared to a 350 im not positive but i dont see why it wouldnt work. search the sight and im sure youll find info

White'89

iTrader: (8)

Oh, fixed my post. I don't know jack about v6 part compatibilities.

90 camaro cj

i think http://60degreev6.com/ will be the BEST place to get compatibility between your current 2.8 and a 3.4 if you go that way

Killert

iTrader: (9)

my .02 cents.

I got my 3.4L from a salvage yard. I ask specifically for a motor they knew was running and sound and had low miles. They gave me a motor that was in a rear-ended Firebird with 60k mile that was drove in by a woman. It cost me 500$ but since then I've put 12k miles on it with out a problem. I've cam'd it and did all the bolt-ons I could. It runs good. I think a savlage yard would be a good option.

Doing the swap was very easy. I stripped both motors to long blocks and put everything from the 2.8 to the 3.4, I did keep the 3.4 oil pan on and had no problems at all.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

Killert, (or anybody else) that's done the swap, can you tell me what kind of differences you saw in performance? Have you ever dynoed your car?

Project 3.4 Camaro

I can't say the difference since I never actually drove it with a 2.8 in it, but I can tell you the #s, a stock 2.8 mpfi puts out 135 hp/160 tq, a stock 3.4 puts out 160 hp and 200 tq. My 3.4 with ported heads, gutted intake box, headers, catback, high flow exhaust, delta cam, ported 2.8 intake, probably makes something in the neighborhood of 200 hp and 240 tq, its not v8 quick, but it's decently quick.
As for rebuild vs. crate, if you are just having a stock rebuild done, and its a good quality one, then I think the prices will be close enough that you may as well get a crate, however if you want them to build it up a bit, then having the machine shop do it would be the way to go, last but not least if you don't want huge power, you can get pretty decent power out of a 2.8, if I were you, I would just build what you already have lying around, cheapest and easiest route.

Killert

iTrader: (9)

I've noticed a good difference between stock 2.8 and stock 3.4. I could spin tires and my foot wasn't pinned to the floor while passing someone. Has a good amount of torque now.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

thanks guys... I do have to wonder .... if you have 200HP and 240tq, when you said it' not V8 quick, you must be talking about the TPI cars, right? I can't see any reason why it wouldn't smoke a TBI car

Killert

iTrader: (9)

I've never driven a V8 car so I can't compare. But my car is pretty built up with tons of bolt ons and now a 75hp shot of N2O. I feel it could probably hang with V8 cars. I raced a buddy's 94 mustang vert gt before my MSDbox/n20/ported intake and I jumped on him out of the hole, he caught me.. But it took him a while, from street light to street light I was only a little behind.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

He is probably guesstimating at the flywheel. The horsepower might be close in comparison but the torque of a V8 would be much higher and get the car going faster.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

This is the standard by which you measure a 60* V6 rebuild

http://sdparts.com/details/gm-perfor...parts/12363230

If you can rebuild your old 2.8 for that horsepower, for less money, OR if you can get a 3.4 as a core and rebuild it for less, then you win.

I don't think you can beat that deal; honestly I don't. I have seen guys get wrapped up in more money than that for just parts and machine work and still not have it properly assembled.

Disregard what they say about carb applications and being for an S-10. That sucker is a direct drop in for what you have and your stuff will just bolt on.

Then, you just need the 3.4 (or equivalent, slightly larger than 2.8) injectors to have a nice day.

These guys are in Lubbock.

Good luck man!

58mark

iTrader: (3)

lubbock isn't too far, but for that difference in money I might as well order the same thing from these guys



http://paceperformance.com/i-6255050...te-engine.html

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Yep, that's the one.

I just don't think that you can beat the deal on that 3.4 engine. When you take into account labor, this is the best piece to start with.

Let us know how it turns out!

Project 3.4 Camaro

a stock tbi car it would, but mod for mod a larger displacement engine will always win, all other factors equal, and I hate to admit it, but a 350 tpi or an lt1 or ls1, ls3 etc. would destroy it without aluminum heads and or boost or max N/A build.