iv got a connecting rod in my 2.8 thats knocking so its time to put this engine out, its done good for over 300K on her lol. anyways im looking at the 3.4 swap and iv got a few questions. when i pull the 2.8 what parts do i need to pull? i know i have to pull my oil pan,oil filter housing, timing chain cover, dizzy, and my intake? next is on the intake, why cant i use the 3.4s intake? im running a MAF so is that why? also all my sensors go back on right? besides my fan switch correct? how to do i the fan switch? are the sensors in the right place? also i have V belts on my car, will i still be able to run that setup since im taking that stuff back aswell? i dont know if the front of the engine is the same. all these questions all relate to this question really. is this really a plug and go engine? i just swap the parts, plug in my sensors and what not, start then time correct? anything special i need to do before i do this swap? also can i be pointed to a STEP by STEP guide for this please!! last question, what are the extras i need to get? i have my intake gaskets already. i know i need donut gaskets, oil pan gaskets, dizzy gasket, oil, timing chain, filter, water pump, antifreeze, ect so what else? thank you! also is there a certain car year should look for? like 93-97?

 

Strip both motors to just the block with heads. The put everything from the 2.8 on the 3.4. Use 2.8 gasket kits, except if you need head gaskets.. Then you use 3.4 head gaskets. Can't use the 3.4 intake because you can't use a distributor, You'll have to wire and tune for DIS.

Its really a simple plug and go swap. Just take your time and label everything.

 

DSI? whats that? and the thing is when i get the engine from the junkyard, i have to trade in my old engine aswell so im gonna have to strip it before i load it and take it in, what do i do about the water pump? is it for the 2.8 or the 3.4? also what about my belts? i have V belts now, will i have to go to a surpintine setup or am i gonna be able to use my vbelts? also i just use the upper plenum correct?, sensor locations the same?

 

DIS is what the new camaros used instead of using a distributor. the 3.4 intake will hit the distributor which is why you cant use it. you need the intake manifold as well as the upper and lower intake plenum from the 2.8, throttle body as well

you can use the following off the 3.4
oilpan if you want
the heads
the valve covers

if you take the time to read through the swap threads about 6 times all of your questions will be answered

 

read these...print them... read them again etc all the info is there

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/6...-do-3-4-a.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/3...-3-4-swap.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/2...3-1-3-4-a.html

 

DIS is the 3-coil ignition setup you will see on the power steering bracket on the 3.4. You will not need to switch intakes. If a 3.4 can run on a 2.8 unmolested ECM (and it can), you can go to a junkyard and get an ECM out of a Cavalier or the like that is the same year as your car (newer ones won't work), and the part number should be the same. Either take the whole ECM or the 2 chips out of it and go. This will provide the spark offset. It's either that or cough up the dough for computer tuning parts you'll only use once.

Well, it's either the above or swap over everything above the lower intake plenum (fuel rail using the 3.4 injectors, 7th injector, upper plenum). You will will want to get a water pump for the 3.4 that is for your 86 as the pumps flow in reverse directions of each other (and you do NOT want to have the wrong pump on or you'll blow the engine if you overheat enough). You'll want a water pump anyways if the 3.4 is from a junkyard (ask me how I know!). The intake has nothing to do with the fact you have a MAF, it's the design of the upper plenum that is the problem.

Other than that, if you want to swap to a manual transmission, now's the best time to do it. If not, you need to make sure that the drive plate on the back of the engine DOES NOT have a balance weight on the engine side (as opposed to the side that faces the transmission when installed). If the 3.4 car currently has the same trans (auto or manual) as your car has now, leave everything alone. And do replace the rear main seal and the distributor/oil pump drive gaskets while the engine is out... You don't want an oily mess under your car like I have (that really WON'T come off) that you don't know where it's coming from.

 

im using the 2.8 pan, accesorrys, dizzy, intake,sensors ect. all i need of the 3.4 is the block pretty much and the flywheel. iv read both stickys and im still confused on a few parts pills

 

yea i know man i was too...i had to re read all of them after i let the project sit for 4 years, it makes a lot more sense when you start to do it

you can keep the 3.4 heads on the motor as well they are the same save you a few steps otherwise yes you need to use all that stuff from the 2.8

the bottom thread is my build it might answer a lot of your questions

 

i wanna keep my stock computer so im gonna swap intakes, is it just the upper? correct? i plan on using the fuel rail and the 3.4s injectors. also if i understand correctly i need to get a 3.4 water pump correct? also i want to stick with my auto so thats staying and i think im gonna need the new flywheel on the 3.4, gonna call and get more information tomorrow, all i know is the engine has 65K on it and its running. i want this swap as easy as pie persay, so what im planning on doing is stripping off all the accesorrys on the front of the engine, IE ac compressor,alt,powersteering, ect. im gonna pull the oil filter housing, the oil pan, the injectors and fuel rail, upper intake, timing chain cover, and i think thats it, so when i get the 3.4 im gonna have to pull the upper intake and fuelrail and swap it, pull the oil filter housing and pan, timing chain cover, then swap over correct? what im really only confused about now is that the 2.8s sensors are in the same spot on the 3.4 besides the fan switch? also what am i suppost to do about the dizzy? do i just rewire it or just plug it back in after i re attach it? if its just a simple, pull off the small stuff on both, reassample, drop the engine in, plug up and connect then start and time im gonna do it next week over my spring break.

 

link pleaseee

 

look up

 

NO, you need to get a water pump for your 86. The 3.4 water pump turns in the opposite direction of yours and if you use the 3.4 pump with V-belts, you'll end up ruining another rod bearing.

For the dizzy, it's the same. Pull the oil pump drive out of the back of the 3.4 and sell it to me (I NEED one) and drop the dizzy in . Drive the plug out of the back of the pass side head for the fan switch (you don't need this thing... My 2.8 had one and I haven't had one since 2004 when the engine was replaced with no problems on the 3.1) and put the fan switch in. If the 3.4 comes with a 3-wire temperature gauge/sensor unit, you will need to knock the same plug out of the driver's side head (but in the front now since the head is reversed) and put your old gauge sender in.

It's really not hard... Everything stays EXACTLY the same except for the engine block.

 

okay get a water pump for my 86 ok, do that and im good on my v belts? gottcha, some of the sensors on the 2.8 block are new so im glad those will swap, aslong as everythings a direct drop, plug, and go i should be okay then. quick side note questions though, on the exhaust pipes, and tips on how i can drop these without breaking bolts? also can i get to the donut gaskets from here when i drop them? because mine are bad and i need them replaced.

ill end up selling my extra parts when im done so ill be pmin you

 

you may be able to use the 3.4 manifolds as well to save time...if they line up with yoru current exhaust

 

PB Blaster... Get it. And get a nice long breaker bar, preferably a 1/2 inch bar with a 15mm deep socket and a u-joint and lots of extensions. That will either break the studs or break the nuts loose. Best bet would probably be to get all 4 wheels off the ground (trust me, it's WAY easier to line up the torque arm with the springs unloaded and removed) and work from there.

 

stock exhaust except my intermidiate pipe, even stock muffler and tailpipe :]

 

okay ill do this, also any input on thost gaskets? im gonna call tomorrow and get more information then run to zone and get my gaskets, oil, water pump, antifreeze, ect, anything else on that list?

 

Find a discount code to AdvancedAuto, order parts online and pick them up at the store. I saved like 30$ on parts for my head gaskets.

For the intake, you'll need all three pieces of it off the 2.8, The lower intake on the 3.4 and a couple differences..

You'll want to use the injectors from the 3.4, the 2.8 injectors will run very lean, I used the 2.8 injectors for a couple months but they couldn't handle it when I put in a cam.

I used all the front accessories off my 2.8 (88 Bird has a serpentine setup), including timing cover and water pump. Im not sure of the differences between the V-belt except the rotation is different.

I also used the 3.4 oil pan.

If you want to do a quick and dirty swap, Take both motors and strip them to long blocks, keeping both oil pans on. take everything you just removed off the 2.8 and install on the 3.4. Pull the plug for the oil pump drive on the 3.4, replace it with the distributor. Replace the 2.8 injectors with the 3.4 injectors. Install the 3.4.

I swapped the motors in a couple hours, It just took a few days after school to disassemble and remove the 2.8

 

ill be doing this swap over my week spring break, im pulling the engine and im gonna see how bad the pisten is, if its just a spun bearing im gonna keep the 2.8 but if not im gonna dissable it since its gonna be in the air.

i heard there are clearence issues with the 3.4 pan, that true? also im using 3.1 injectors now but i plan on using the 3.4s when i get it, so prett much i need to remove the

timing chain cover
oil pan
all the pullys up front IE ac comp, alt
intake
fuel rail
dizzy
sensors
ect.

am i missing anything?

 

If the 3.4's intake manifold (between the heads and below the lower plenum) doesn't have the fitting for the cold start injector, you will need to swap that over as well. If it does, you will probably find a plug in the hole that you will need to knock out.

If the 2.8 has a spun rod bearing, you will probably need to fork over the cash to have the crank polished and for either a new connecting rod or for a 2.8 piston and con rod assembly. When the bearing disappears, the crank journal directly contacts the con rod and both end up with damage. You won't be able to just shove a bearing into the rod and have everything be peachy as the hole in the con rod will be oversize and the bearing will spin in the rod, becoming totally useless (again, referring to the Chrysler I worked on) and the oil clearance between the bearing and the crank will be too large due to the material removed from the crank. You'd probably be better off getting a 3.4 long block (block with heads and outer coverings) as opposed to forking over the coin for a 2.8 rotating assembly. This is all depending on how much of the bearing is left in the rod (if any) and even IF there is a spun bearing and not another problem entirely. To be sure, you will need to try to move each rod end side to side on the crank journal. Any play means a spun bearing. And you will need to replace the oil pump screen as well due to the fact that the pump will suck in the pieces of the bearing and you won't be able to get them all out, which means oil flow may be hampered.

 

its gonna cost me about $450 to do this swap, thats all the new parts, plus the engine.

 

okay for my parts list iv got these tell me if im missing anything from here

water pump
oil pan gasket
dizzy mounting gasket
thermostat
antifreeze
oil
oil filter
6 AC delcos R43TSKs
timing cover gasket.

am i missing anything?

 

Yeah, it would probably be more cost effective for you to swap... I'm looking on eBay right now for bargain crank kits for the 2.8 and just the crank kit alone is between $160 and $300, not counting the con rod(s) which aren't included and the machine shop required to press the new con rod(s) into the affected piston(s).

 

im just swapping the engines, screw it its quicker and ill benifit from it more

 

just found one on craigslist for $250, 88K on it, its from a 94 and its sat for a year, it comes with the engine and tranny though..

 

Go for it. Sell the trans and get at least half of your money back. You can't use the trans (you could if it was a 93) because it's electronically shifted.

 

should i trust it though? i dont wanna get stiffed..., after i get the 3.4 and get everything done and get it in the car and running. im gonna slap the spare 3.4 parts on my old 2.8 and bolt the tranny to it and sell it for maybe $300.. idk

 

Don't try to sell a damaged 2.8 as a perfectly good 3.4 with attached trans as it will come back to bite you.

All you have to do is go and look at the engine and make sure it will turn by hand. If not, the rings have probably rusted to the bores and it will take more work than it's worth (complete teardown and rebuild with full boring and honing and new pistons) to get that 3.4 back running again.

 

im not gonna sell the engine as perfect, dont want to get anyone hurt or stranded.

 

Run the 3.4 oil pan as it clears the k member better than the 2.8. Just ignore the oil level sensor in the pan on the driver side. I've done 4 of these 2.8 to 3.4 swaps. they are not too difficult at all. My 1988 wouldn't fire the 3.4 injectors, so I used the 2.8s. something different in the design, so I them put in some injectors from a 1991 3.1 Camaro. My '88 is a daily driver and the stock v6 is great for long commutes.

 

dave, I have an 89, and might do the 3.4 swap some day. would you say I should first try my existing injectors, or go ahead and make the change while i'm putting everything together?

 

My used 3.4 didn't come with the injectors, so I had to use the 2.8 ones. They work great and the engine only pings when accelerating hard when its summer and 112 degrees outside and the a/c is on. Using an octane booster solves it. so yes you can use the original 2.8 injectors if you had to.

 

what about 3.1 injectors? i have 2 sets of those here

 

Im almost positive the 3.1 injectors are the same as the 2.8

 

For a couple of years, GM used both the 2.8 and 3.1 injectors on the 2.8. They're only about .7 lb/hr difference in flow, so it doesn't really make a difference. I don't understand why RT66 had a problem running 3.4 injectors with the 2.8 ECM... I didn't have a problem with mine (actually off of a 3100 but the same injectors according to the P/N). The reason I removed them was because they leaked fuel pressure BAD and it took forever and a day to start the engine in the winter.

 

you can get a set of bosch injectors from southbay for a really reasonable price and is a safer bet than running the 2.8s or 3.1s. cheap insurance to avoid against any pings or detonation

i was running 19lbs on my 3.4 before the turbo but theres no real reason to go that high a stock size 3.4 injector would be plenty and anything is better than the stock injectors anyways

 

could i use one out of a 95 firebird? its the same moter isnt it

 

yes same motor

 

so i can use it?. it comes with the engine, tranny, ECM, and airbox, he doesnt have the harness.

 

yes i actually have a 95 motor in mine

you really dont need the trans and ecm though or the air box..unless your just going to resale that stuff

 

well for all that its $300, for just the engine its $250...might aswell resell it. i need the flywheel outta the tranny anyways

 

going after the engine saterday. couple of questions though....are there any aluminum heads for this engine? also how do they sound with cowboy dual exhaust? i wanna get cowboy duals put on so im curious on if anyone else has done this. how is the power and toruqe increase from the 2.8 to this? much better?

 

ONLY aluminum heads that are any good are referred to in the Hybrid stickies at the top of the page. Be an easier swap for you with already having 90% of the parts that would need to stay with the engine (that aren't part of the swap). Not sure what you mean by "cowboy" dual exhaust, but it's going to cost you a pretty penny nonetheless. Especially as the headers would most likely need to be custom made (if the exhaust you're referring to is true dual front to rear) and you would also need 2 catalytic converters instead of one. If you do go true dual exhaust, you would need pipe no larger than 2 1/4" in diameter (don't care what anyone says, there's charts posted all over the place with optimal exhaust sizing for a given engine displacement and they say 2" for up to 3.6 liters or something, which covers all the 2.8 and family up to the 3500 and 3900 and 2 1/2" for single exit exhaust).

:edit: Just swapping the long block alone nets you about 25 HP and 40 ft/lbs of torque, IIRC.

 

Sorry to go off target a little, but when you say 2.5 inch exhaust- do you know the ideal intake size for our engines, as far as CAI fabrication is concerned?

 

It doesn't matter what you put before the throttle plate as long as it will happily flow what the engine requires. It's AFTER the throttle plate and between it and the cylinders (on the intake side) that matters, and I don't know of an ideal length or diameter for it. The reason the exhaust is so important is that any restriction in the exhaust system will back up gases into the cylinders and the engine will lose power (similar to putting a pillow on your face). The intake doesn't have that problem. As long as the engine can take in what it needs to, it's fine.

 

Cool! Wait until you see my intake set-up then... take me a couple more weeks to do it all and post photos...

 

However you do it, just make sure you reinstall the IAT sensor in the piping somewhere. The ECM doesn't like it just hanging out. I have an idea for mine that currently needs to be modified and will be completed when I replace the driver's side battery tray (relocating battery to the other side so I can actually hold it down AND replace the tray again if needed).

 

wow im really thinking about doing this now, thsi thread answered alota my questions to as i have a 3.1 90' camaro

 

cowboy duals are where it comes back from 1 pipe then splits into two

 

so same as stock, y pipe cat back to muffler then split into 2