Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

i was wondering if the 3.1 to 3.4 swap is basically the same as the 2.8 to 3.4 swap, i currently have a 1992 3.1 with a 5speed tranny. i will be rebuilding the engine before it goes in but need to know if its the same process.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

very very close yes. Only real difference is that you dont have to pull the plug outta the right rear head. That is for the fan sensor on the 2.8. 3.1's dont have that.

Since your 3.1 already, your flywheel can swap. No need to find the "right one".

kretos

exactly the same just swap the words 2.8 for 3.1

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

wow talk about quick responses haha thanks as usual, im getting the engine from a local junkyard for 550 + Tax....heres another question i have a set of PF@E headers as most of you know, are those gonna bolt up to the 3.4 block?

im doubting this but will i have to make new motor mounts or will it bolt up to the 3.1 mounts?

anyone know where to get forged internals for the 3.4?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

headers will bolt on just fine. Basically the same heads. You would have to take casting molds to find the differences.

Motor mounts, swap the 3.1's to the 3.4. Move the knock sensor from above the mount, to down by the starter where that plug is. Put the plug back up above the motor mount where you pulled the knock sensor from.

Forged guts I have no clue. Crank is same as 3.1. Connecting rods are same as 2.8/3.1/3.4. Pistons are all their own.

Projek: 85 3800

Forged Internals for the 2.8~3.4 get the P.A.W. 1200+ page catalog for $6. Well worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

where would i get the catalog?

im sure im gonna have more questions as i research this a little more, ill probably get the engine sometime next week. im actually gonna be building this engine at school and depending on time swap it in as well

anything else off the top of your heads that i should know to do this swap and engine build?

Projek: 85 3800

http://www.pawengineparts.com/

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

would be cool if someone who had it would post all the stuff for our engines or make a tech article outtve it with all the part numbers for easy access

FbodTrek

Pistons and conrods can be bought from most companies that carry such products. Eagle, ARI, Ross, Speed pro (for sure they have), KEith Black (although not a first choice). Speed pro will probably be your best bet. Go with flatops taht'll give you about9.5:1-10:1 compression. If you're going though the trouble to build the bottom end, make sure to go fully custom on heads and valvetrain too. Full porting job, some1.8" intake valves, 5 angle valve job, lightweight hardened pushrods. Once the heads are flowed, call a cam munufacturer and ask what cam would compliment them (don't forget RPM range). You could have the makings of a very quick 3.4 if you do all of this (14 second range for sure). Good luck.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

well the goal after this engine is built is for it to handle a turbo and or a shot of nitrous...needless to say its gonna be a very quick 3.4 and no one will know the diffrence mwhahaha

this is my first engine build so any and all advice/internal part suggestion would be greatly appreciated

as far as engine selection any 3.4 from the camaros will work right?

once the bottom end is done ill see how much money i have to do the top end, top end will be easier to do later on than the bottom end would be....building this engine with all the mods are already have i am very hopeful that ill be a 14 second car all motor

Dale

iTrader: (12)

follow a thread created by kretos, and the new sticky at the top of the page.

Lots of info on the net. This is a very widely used engines, fiero, camaro, firebird, s10, early citations, and often swapped into older mgs, midgets, and stuff like that.


If you have LOTS of time. In the lifter vally, barly grind that to a polish. Dont take any more away then needed, just make it smooth so the oil flows. Some people paint it smooth, your choice.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

as far as time goes ill at least be working on it for 4 hours in class at least one day a week but knowing me once i get started ill be going in more than that, i have till december to get the majority of it built at least

i have a slow dial up connection so any chance you can link that kretos thread, search takes forever for me

kretos

my post is about halfway down the page, i'm doing a 3.4 buildup so i've been getting all the good info in it

hope you enjoy the read theres a ton of good info in it

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=254501

thats the link

hope it helps you

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

sweet dude, i read through that and got a lot of good info...my goal is to run a good shot of nitrous or the turbo kit on mine though thats about the only diffrence in our engine builds i believe

i should be buying my 3.4 soon and getting it torn down

kretos

i'm planning on turbo eventually, but i'm not a fan of nitrous


i hope that read helped ya out

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

random thought will my underdrive pulley for the crank work on the 3.4L?

also kretos could you send me a list or post on here the parts you used and where ya got them, would be a little easier to access this way

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

turns out im gonna be getting the 3.4L outtve a 1994 Camaro for $550 for an extra 50 i could get one outtve a 95 but seeing as im gonna be rebuilding it i dont really see the point

Dale

iTrader: (12)

yes crank pully will swap.

However, keep the 3.4 balancer!

kretos

if you check out my post a little further down the page it'll tell ya all you need to know

but to help you out heres a basic idea of what my setup looks like:

ported intake, plenum, and heads flow tested and matched(done profesionally)
crane hydraulic cam specs 450 in 480 ex
hydraulic lifters
crane gold rockers 1.6
measure the lenght needed for pushrods and get them in chromoly
forged pistons
cloyes adjustable timing chain
airtex hiflow waterpump
3.4L oil pump (stock variety)
new springs and retainers (your choice)
going to be getting the piston crowns & head chambers & valves thermal coated
and the injectors are the stock 3.4 variety, when the motor gets assembled (not yet) i will send them out for cleaning to cruizin performance

don't think i forgot anything

kretos

pretty sure i didn't forget anything, oh one thing if you go with 1.6 rockers grab some feiro valve covers or edelbrock ones

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

The weard thing about the ballancer is that all the reading materal I have seen says that all of our 60*-V6 ballancers are 0 ballance. Even on the external ballance engines.
but in practice it dosen't look that way, with vibration problems and what not.
The only thing that works is keeping the orignal ballancer with the engine.
That crane cam if it is the 2-272-H it will have .480''/.511'' of lift with 1.6 rockers on both sides.
If you want some ideas on a nice valve train check out my cardomain site. I built up the heads to take .480''+ valve lift with off the shelf parts and Titanium LS1 retainers (there not the comp cams bee hive ones). I also P&P them.

irocz eric

$550 for a v6? u can get a great running 350 for that price or cheaper...

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the worthless input on puttin a 350 in, yeah ok so i can get that for under 550, then i have to buy a new transmission to go along with it after i just did a 5 speed swap not more than a few months ago. oh then i have to get new lowering springs as well. hmmm then id have to get a new exhaust to replace my expensive headers.....hmm wonder what else i have to do to get that cheap 350 to work.......boy thanks for opening my eyes with a cheaper alternitive for my engine swap....i love how orginal that idea is, a 350 in a thirdgen so much better than a built 3.4 turbo

anyways now that that is outtve my system thanks for the list kretos....i need to start ordering parts, i think im gonn have about 1200 to spend on parts right now which isnt much but thats all i can afford till my hours at work pick up....now if i can jsut get a truck to go get my engine

kretos

no problem on the parts list, just remember to double check the push rod lenght

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

well i picked up the engine today for $527 woohoo saved some more cash. few questions

for the crank pulley what balancer? any pics of that

second will that crane cam that you mentioned be ok if i decide to turbo or nitrous?

should i bore the engine? if so how much should i bore it?

think thats it for now im sure ill come up with more as i start tearing it down. thanks again

kretos

dunno if the cam is compatible with boost, nitrous shouldn't be a problem, and i'd stay away from boring the block unless it needs it

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

hey kretos just curious but how much coin you got in that engine already?

kretos

eh i messed up my back at work so i haven't had a chance to do anything to the engine, but i figure once i''m done with it , i'm looking at about $2700-$3000 strictly on the engine including the 650 for the motor when all is said and done, this includes all machine shop work and powdercoating

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

im trying to figure out what all i can upgrade with my budget and still have a nice motor...i figure i can do all the bottom end work now and then the heads as money allows. where did you get your forged pistons? and what did the run ya?

kretos

haven't grabbed the pistons yet, still trying to find a well priced set for my engine, your best bet is to go to a place like napa and ask them for some forged pistons, they should be able to help you.

kretos

right now my focus isn't on my camaro, its on an 89 gta i'm grabbing for a grand. then i'm gonna part it out use some of it on my car and sell the rest to fund this swap

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

im gonna start calling around tomorrow.....im starting the tear down tomorrow morning and getting all the 3.4 stuff off i dont need and boxed up. when i start finding stuff ill post prices and what not. hey with the gold rockers what kind of gain does the 1.6 have over the 1.5?

kretos

runs cooler, and better from a roll


basically its worth the benifits

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Dyno 2000 showed max 5hp, but then that doesnt take in effect the more efficentcy of them being roller. I would guess no more then 8.

Also, side note. After looking at supersix's flow chart for these heads, on the exhaust side, unless ported, no need for more then .40 lift. This engine needs more intake!

kretos

thats still a pretty good benefit for them

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

im trying to decide if thats worth getting new valve covers and the diffrent push rods....im sure when i start the tear down tomorrow im gonna have tons of questions

kretos

ah why worry about the valve covers, they will just smack into the valve covers making 3 dimples perside, some people haven't had any problems with fitment

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

is there any other adjustments needed to make the 1.6 work.....i was looking in summit and the 1.5 and 1.6 are both $319 ouch....anyone know the diffrence with the self aligning ones?

actually ment to ask also do i need the ones for the standard valve cover or the narrow body?

kretos

standard body should work fine, 319 seems a bit steep, i'm picking mine up for 210 canadian

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

where you getting yours from?

kretos

a performance place near me

Dale

iTrader: (12)

you must get narrow body!!!!

I would have to show you pic of self-align vs non.


You need non-self-align.

To me, 330+ (rockers, pushrods, covers) is not worth the 8hp right now. Maybe later down the road.

kretos

i talked to a guy at crane and he said standard worked fine?

don't tell me i got another winner?

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

ok made a lot of progress today.....all i got left to do is finish taking the block apart(pistons cam and crank mostly) and here come some questions

1. which heads should i use the 3.4 or the 3.1s

2. im gonna replace the water pump(cause i dont wanna go through the trouble to replace it later) do i get a 2.4 or 3.1 pump

3. any recomendations on springs?

4. what kind of intake and exhuast valves?

5. what timing chain and for 3.4 or 3.1?

im sure ill come up with more later but thats good for now, if youve already answered this lol im sorry been a long day already go ahead and answer again so far looks like the engine itself is in pretty good shape, i probably wont get to it again untill next wensday. thanks already for the help

kretos

use the 3.4's higher flow and they are HO heads, you get a 2.8 waterpump and timing chain (they are all 60* v6 parts)

Dale

iTrader: (12)

3.4 heads dont flow any more air then 3.1 or efi 2.8's.

The 3.4 heads DO have a tad more meat around where the spring sits.

Valves, unless your turboing, nos, or super high performance, stocks are fine.

WP, whatever your current belt system is (edit, I see your 3.1, so get 3.1). Somehow, the 2.8/3.1/3.4's are all different.

TC, its the same for all of them, get cloyes if your in smog country, or full performance.


BTW, yes you need narrow body rockers, standard wont fit.

kretos

well damn , i've been told a few fibs by my machine shop.

i got told 3.4 heads were higher flow.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

ok well i will be porting and polishing the heads my self so at least i have a spare should i screw up and there wont be much diffrence.

i am aiming for turbo or nos so what valves should i get for it?

3.1 water pump...gotcha

what would be the perfomrance tc...i dont live in smog country woohoo

ok so far i cant find any forged pistons that wont be a custom 600+ dollar job....anyone at all have some cheaper?

anyone know where to get the narrow body gold rockers the cheapest of hand? summit qouted me today at like 324 shipped here

what gasket kits do i need when i put it back together?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Heads flow the same, and in fact, if you got get a head from gm, the part # will be the same for either.

Get the cloyes TC

Get a 3.1 gasket set, PLUS 3.4 head only gaskets. Actually, turbo or nos, you might want to find some copper gaskets or something.