kretos

alright guys i got a few questions about the 3.4 ltr block

-i'm gonna be putting ina crane mechanical cam, should i do the lifters aswell?

should i bother getting stronger pushrods?

any specific timing chain i should pick up for it

and the engine is outta an automatic i'd need to pick up a flywheel for it as i want my t5 to stay put, any specific flywheel i should look at?


basically i'm trying to put together a parts list to get.


i'm already planning on porting and polishing the heads

any other suggestions to get the most power and reliability outta the 3.4 block?

Projek: 85 3800

1. always, ALWAYS install new lifters w/a new cam.

2. stock will be plenty strong unless you're running a radical high lift cam, then also look into new stronger rated springs

3. Double roller timing set

4. 4th gen 3.4 flywheel, w/matching dampner

5. Take your time & do it right the first time.

kretos

[B]1. always, ALWAYS install new lifters w/a new cam.

thought so just figured i'd make sure

2. stock will be plenty strong unless you're running a radical high lift cam, then also look into new stronger rated springs

ok i always hear about forged pushrods just wondering if its even worth it for a 3.4

3. Double roller timing set

got any specific brand?

4. 4th gen 3.4 flywheel, w/matching dampner

i'm gonna go with a centerforce dual friction clutch should i get these 2 parts from centerforce aswell?

5. Take your time & do it right the first time.

thanks for the help

kretos

another quick question, i read that we should reuse the timing chain oil pan setup on a 2.8

but if i'm buying a new timing chain do i get it for a 2.8 or a 3.4 block?

the cam i get for a 3.4 block

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

You will need mechanical lifters.
What are the specs on the cam?
yea now I get to use my new chevy power manual.
When porting dont remove the vane in the intake ports, I have all ways been told to to remove it now I have #'s to back it up. by haveing the vane it increases flow 17%.
Use Viton valve seals.
Take the head gasket and enlarge the small water holes to 9/32'' and the 2 center holes to 1/4''.
You might want to O ring the block with SS wire.
You will want a top notch oiling system because unlike the oiling system on a SBC the Mains don't realy get the oil they need so you will want a high vol pump and a oil filter relocater kit.
You will want a high PSI pump by pass spring on a high vol pump to get like 70psi.
You will want as much as you can get for this engine.
It looks like the oil goes to the oil gallery first where the lifters and cam bearings are and get there oil and then the oil goes to the mains then they get whats left over, by no means an A+ factory system like the SBC.
The oil has to go through a maze and go past a lot of holes to get to the mains.
The SBC's oil can go to the cam and lifters OR the mains, its a great design.

kretos

o ring the block with ss wire?

i've never rebuilt an engine before so i have no clue what that is.

as far as the rest goes its gold man thanks alot

i'm not gonna spare any expense with this motor so if you have any other input on what should be done or added feel free to chip it in



thanks for the help

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

Well you could get a chevy power manual that would help.
Save the SS or copper O ring for if your going to run nitrous.
More stuff about the block, well it weighs about 106lb.
You can use SBC cam bearing but they will stick out a little each end when properly installed.
You will want to drill 2 extra 1/8'' holes in the top main bearing because that feeds the crank so it can get lots of oil.
Because the rods get oil even after the mains, it's a long long way for the oil to get to the rods.
Key word when building a 3.4 is OIL.
The stock rods are good for 7000 rpms with out question.
You will want some forged pistons to.

kretos

thanks for this great info man, you defiantly know your 3.4 ltr

i'm not a fan of nitrous, so i'll stay away from it

and i read your post about the crane gold rockers, would these be a good idea for me? the torque bonuses of them sound great, and they seem to be a fairly priced rocker

Dale

iTrader: (12)

timing chain is mady by cloyes, its a tad expensive over the basic chain. But it is adjustable, so read instructions when you install. You need the 2.8 Timing cover so you have the timing marker and can adjust timing.

TC says its only for 2.8s, but 3.1's and 3.4's is the same.

seach for a post by dean (vsixtoy) he said that when going to 1.6 rockers you need to change length of pushrod.

A flywheel from 90+ 3.1 or 3.4 is what you need, car-part.com should find you one easly. Dont forget the piolit shaft bushing.

Projek: 85 3800

I've not heard of changing the pushrod legnth for 1.6 rockers before.

edit: never mind, solid lifters are probably different

kretos

the cam specs are 460in 480 ex / 290in 300ex / 228 in 238 ex

kretos

oil pan which chevy power manual would be good to pick up?

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

As far as I know there is only the one chevy power manual. I went to sbdc2000.com and searched for it and it came up and that is where I got mine.

kretos

thanks alot

quick question are those crane gold rockers worth getting for my 3.4?

i read your cardomain site (great info btw) and couldn't help notice the gains you said they gave.

so since i'm planning on going all out on this engine is it a good way to go or just go with what i have?

Projek: 85 3800

Those rockers will help any engine, and the more you do to the engine, the better the rockers will be. I no longer have the 3.4 in my ride, but I still threaten Tiago everynow & then on "aquiring" them from him

vsixtoy

Lightweight roller rockers are THE BEST improvement you can do to the engine. It will rev higher and faster + gain more valvetrain reliability over stock.

kretos

so basically if i'm serious about getting the most outta my 3.4 i should grab them aswell

what site was that it comes up not there

i can't get the chevy power manual up here in canada

kretos

so should i go with 1.6 on the crane gold rockers or mix them?

cus if i need to resize my pushrods i might think twice

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

YOu can mix them if you want, it is up to you.
The crane rockers will make less heat. They will let your engine revv up faster. YOu shoudl have bettere valve controal, thats key to making any power up on the top end.
Most rocker makers claim 15 ftlb over stock through the rpm range. On the other hand roller lifter claim 25 ftlb over flat tap.
That mechanical cam will be real bad @$$.

kretos

thanks for all the help so far. definatly gonna make this engine better

FbodTrek

OOoooooo another convert....... hehehehe. Sounds like a VERY nice setup. Build it right the first time (like what I should hacve done). The 1.6 rollers will be a relly nice addition, that's probably going to be my next mod. Rev higher+faster is a REALLY good thing if you encounter many streetraces. I still get a kick outta the guy in the Honda who thinks he has a BETTER chance from a roll . I suck going from a dig, if I dont hit it just right i spin ALOT. Good luck and keep us informed.

kretos

oh i'll keep you guys informed

basically i'm going with a 3.4 outta a 95 camaro with a crane mechanical cam, mechanical lifters, 1.6 rockers, forged pistons and ported heads
with a wc t5



silly ricers are gonna learn wings are for planes, not for power

vsixtoy

Yes, sorry I missed this earlier.

Deffinately if you go to 1.6 rockers you'll need to get lengthened pushrods to keep the proper geometry 1.6" rockers require .100-inch longer than factory. Basically you are keeping the roller from moving halfway off the head of the valve stem. Stock may work, but will make more noise and wear faster, and very probably cause failure at higher rpms.

You'll need part #Crn-25621-12. They are Crane Cams chrome moly pushrods, 6.163" length, 5/16" dia, with oil holes.
http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...t=crn-25621-12

Here's a good info page on proper valvetrain geometry
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Cu...ML/306-307.asp

vsixtoy

Your and my best bet when actually sizing this is to buy this first. Its a pushrod length finder/checker. Its best to install the cam and then check both 1 intake/ and 1 exhaust pushrod for proper length needed. Then buy the correct length.

I have not yet done this, I based my info above off of material I have read. I plan to verify the 6.163" specs myself with a tester before I do my final purchase.
http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...701-1&x=23&y=8

This is yet another VERY IMPORTANT STEP to building a motor reliably and not to cause a valve to stick open and hit the piston- I think we all know what kind of day that brings. I have been here a few times in my early VW days.

kretos

your pretty much going with the same setup as i am correct?

so when you verify the lenght i'd love to see the results

Dale

iTrader: (12)

myself and dean are looking into this right now.

stock rods are 6.163 long, not the oversized.

so, 6.163+.100 = 6.263.

mustang and other 302 fords from 85-95 use 6.25 pushrods, should be good.

I am guessing it will be sometime before dean gets to this on his own engine. He is very busy with his own company, family, and many other projects.

vsixtoy

Different cam grinds (different companies even with the so called same grind) can produce different results. Generally not anywhere near enough to be different lengths, but ALWAYS best to check your own combo.

Other things like what rockers you are using and what height the are shimmed or installed at will cause varience even if the cam is the same as another motor.

I think Jay(Dale) is correct that the 6.163" pushrods are stock length. I definately have 1st hand liturature backing that the aftermarket aluminium rockers should be installed with aprox .100" longer pushrods than stock sizing.

I am currently working on motor parts for my buildup, but like everything I do, it takes time to do things right. I am building alot of custom stuff into this car. Don't know how many of you know about my current 6piston front brake project that is going on about 4 months NOT from money, but time waiting on one-off custom machined parts I have designed and a setup I am engineering from scratch through trial and error fitting of parts to get things to work. http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/518752/6

I am constantly buisy on something like Jay stated above.

Doward

I'll toss my .02 into this

Port the heads, intake, and upper plenum as best you can.

Headers, or port the stock manifolds. Big power gains here.

Anytime you do anything outside stock, on the valvetrain, I ALWAYS recommend double-triple checking pushrod length. As Dean (I think it was him) said, proper valvetrain geometry is CRITICAL to long life. And since you are running a MECHANICAL cam, you will have to be sure of pushrod length.

Be aware with 1.6 RR, you'll need a taller set of valve covers - Fiero 2.8 valve covers work well.

In all this build, I have heard nothing about the valve springs - PLEASE ask the cam manufacturer which set of springs you will need.

Also be aware of the pushrod clearance required for your mechanical cam - again, the manufacturer will be a vital source of information there. Also be aware that mechanical cams DO require infrequent readjustment of the rocker arms. Be sure to check the rockers every 10-15k miles, at least, or if you hear them 'tapping'.

Cloyes makes the double roller timing set for our 60º V6's It's $92, I believe.

Please be aware you will need some serious PROM tuning for the best out of that setup. Good luck!

kretos

thanks for all the help so far guys


alright since i want this car to be my daily driver should i keep this setup i mentioned above with the 1.6 rockers.

i'm pretty much going for as much power as i can get with the most reliability and quality. if i need to sacrafice some power to make this engine last longer i will-

Doward

I'd recommend a hydraulic cam, over a solid cam, for daily usage.

Get a Crane cam, with the same specs, in a hydraulic. There you go.

kretos

should i upgrade the rockers and pushrods then?


or leave the rest of it stock but with a crane hydraulic cam

i'm really looking for an engine that i can buildup as a daily driver with some kick, but once its together not really need in the way of adjustment and such

Doward

Crane cam + 1.6 roller rockers = good gains.

kretos

ok so with a hydraulic cam i won't need to adjust the rockers?

i've never built an engine before so i'm trying to understand what i'm getting myself into

kretos

the specs on the hydraulic cam are 450in 480 ex
as compared to 460in 480 ex with the mechanical


am i still looking at roughly the same power?

Doward

Close, but the mechanical cam will make more power, at a higher rpm.

But it's close enough, considering you won't have to constantly watch for adjustments.

kretos

sobasically with the hydraulic cam i'm getting less power but more reliabilty?


and thanks again guys your definatly helping me out here

Projek: 85 3800

w/the hydrulic lifters, you could get as much power as in a solid lifter, but the lifters will collapse if pushed too hard too long. SOme new solid lifter cams, TFX (I'm trying to find some links for them) seem to be made better, w/fewer if any, need to readjsut the rockers. But adjusting rockers is the price you pay for more power, but knowing how much of a pain it is to even get the valve covers off these engines, I'd think of these two choices:

a) go w/hydraulic cam that will give similar numbers

b) modify the valve covers so that you can remove/put back the tops of them so you can adjust the rockers w/o needing to take of the middle/upper plenums & everything else hooked up to them.

kretos

this is the exact reason i don't want to have to mess around with the mechanical cam, i'm not one for rebuilding the intake of my engine every few months. gaskets are freaking expensive , basically i'm not trying to make this car an 13 second monster, just somethng thats got pickup if i need it but thats reliable and not a pain in the *** to keep running

kretos

oh and in regards to the 1.6 rockers i need new valve covers?

so i gotta grab a set of fiero valve for the car or does an aftermarket company make valve covers for a 3.4?

Chevrolet 2.8L 60° V6 (no baffle) 2.6"

would they work?

Projek: 85 3800

you'll find different answers as far as 1.6 rockers hitting the valve covers. SOme people have them hitting, other don't. I think it'll be a personall issue. The covers wont break, but maybe have 6 dimples in them eventually from the rockers. Edelcrotch makes chrome covers w/o baffles for like $60, and Fireo COvers may go just as much. Your choice though.

edit: if you're going big w/the cam, make sure it's for 1.5 ratio, & you won't need higher lift rockers. something to think about

kretos

so with the hydraulic cam should i go with 1.5 or 1.6 rockers?

Projek: 85 3800

again, depends on how much lift you want. You can also get all your parts together, heads done, stall converter if needed & all, and give comp cams or crane a call, tell them your set up & they'll advise you on a cam to tkae advantage of what you have.

kretos

alright i think i'll do that, thanks alot for your help guys

kretos

should i port the plenum and the intake as well as the heads?

and what compay makes good forged pistons?

kretos

oh and i can't seem to find any hi volume oil pumps.


anyone have any brands to look into?

Doward

YES on the P&P... pistons? Unsure. Call JE, Ross, Sealed Power...

Hi volume oil pump? Go to Autozone, and get one for a 91 3.1, high vol.

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

You can go to napaonline or advanced auto parts and they have them.
I saw some at napaonline.
For the high pressure bypass spring call napa or get the gm part # and order from them.

kretos

thanks guys i tried a napa around here to get some prices, but like always they told me they didn't have it. *** napa needs some better people working for them

Dale

iTrader: (12)

actually, the 3.4 oil pump is better. Larger screen, larger tube.

kretos

so just grab a stock 3.4 pump, sounds good