Has anyone put an mpfi v6 from an '86 or newer f-body into an '83ish Firebird?

I was basically given this car with no engine or tranny. Right now I have the interior mostley striped to get the floor boards done, to make it easy to rewire the alarm, stereo, replace speedo and give it a heavy duty cleaning. Around here its hard to find a good carb v6 L1 and I'm thinking while I got the interior out it's good time to install the computer I probably need to be able to put in a fuel injected engine. From what I've read this would be a major improvement.

I'm interested in learning what kind of problems other people have ran into and what other part I might need.

 

Now is the time to get a 1994 3.4 engine and setup and drop it right in.... Will work great and you'll love it.. You might even find one with under 50,000 miles

 

For your car,
GO V-8!
For all you would NEED to DO A COMPUTER SYSTEM, PROPER 100% FUNCTIONAL, you would need a complete donor car, sitting next to you.
You can drop in a V-8 so easy, it's just not worth it anyother way.
A running V-8 is about............almost free, these days.
Just go get any tranny you want.
MAKE SURE, what ever you do, is STREET LEGAL,
Keeps the effort/fun factor very high!!!

From one that did the 2.8-3.4 swap boogie, my personal suggestion.

FOR THE MONEY...Chevy does sell a COMPLETE ENGINE SWAP for a CARB'D version drivetrain. BUT legal in a V-8 car foundation, only. Your VIN verifies it's a V-6 car. See if that may work street legal in your area. Comes without tranny, tho! Engine package is about $4,500.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

These are great ideas, but maybe when I'm done Collage. Let me clarify my situation. The car needs approximatley $800 worth of non-drivetrain work to get it into prime condition. There is this ultra cheap auto wrecker here where I can get a 82-88+ 2.8l and tranny for $220 ( The one I looked at was kleen and had 120K on it, they say it has great compression and oil pressure. Problem is they don't have a carberated older model. I havn't asked about the computer price yet, but being as they sell alternators and starters for $10 I can't see it being too much. I need to have this car done by September to drive back and forth between collage (two hours a day) so fuel milage is a must must must. I know fuel milage for a 305 on a highway is roughly comparible but still in the end I'm just gonna have less beer and less nights ou at the bar.. get my drift?

I know I was just asking for someone to say "V8!!" but right now I'm getting the body, suspension, interior prime and am open to that in the long term but for now Forward, Reverse, gas milage and appearance matter to me. In a year I definitly plan on going with at least the 94 or maybe by that time even newer 3.4l. I'm gonna keep this car for a long time so I want everything done right. It's only seven years away from being a classic. I could ditch this whole project and get an older grand am or something but I had this obsession with firebirds since the time my bro let me drive his T/A when I was 14. So this is a comprimise. Luckily I'm not stupid or affraid of getting dirty. I also have all the spare parts from that T/A and a few remnant of previous V6 Firebirds and Camaros I've owned, thats whats making this re-conditioning possible. I have an aluminum drive shaft and flyweel of my old T/L'ed chicken (auto) I'm also hoping will fit, don't know about the driveshaft.

NOW it sounds like more of a hassle than swaping computers. Please tell me more, what else do I need?

Well I'm heading out to the garage to start fixing the floorpan. Before I do that I gotta get those 3 pop-rivits outa the dash so I can pull it. Hmmm now would be good time to get a speedo that doesn't say 220k.
Aaahh a fun day of welding and painting.

BTW The car does need to go throug a safty inpection. There not too thourough on engines, it moslty body holes, horn, windshield. I know they don't check engines since I passed a Grand Prix V8 with the emmisions stuffed hacked off and was an unknown Engine(with cracked heads!) and Tranny. We don't have an air problem here in Regina, Saskatchewan it mostley the smoggy American air coming up here thats the problem .

So what do I need, it almost sounds now like I need all the wiring, but I have time on my side so even thats possible.

Thanks guys, but due to budget restraints I need to stick with a 2.8L. I'm also a perfectionist so I would need to change the front suspention, ad subframe connectors, new control arms, do the same wirimg and computer anyways since I'd go with an FI V8.
Hey, If I'm gonna do that in the future I might as well practice now.

 

3.4L, complete $350

http://www.tacreationsusa.com

Usedparts@tacreationsusa.com

 

Tacreations cant ship engines more than 800 miles from them..insurance issues.

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1989 Firebird
2.8 v6, t5 swapped in

Ram Hi-po clutch, Cold Air, 1.6 rockers,Lakewood LCA's, Lakewood Lift bars, Wonder Bar, 3" y-pipe, Random Tech Cat, 3" I-pipe, Flowmasters, MSd 6a, MSD Coil (Fireball in future) Accel 8.8 wires, MSD Ignition Module, Auto Meter Gauges (Water, Clock (needed one) Fuel Pressure, and 5" monster tach) 4th Gen Seats

"I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to not have run at all"

 

Here's what I suggest.
WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME ABOUT THAT OTHER ENGINE PLACE!!!
Oh, well.
Take your option, start going forward. Keep an eye out for a S-10 Blazer for the carb & intake.
SAME AS YOUR Camaro/Firebird!
OR get an Edelbrock intake, headers for the S-10 Blazer, DITCH THE ELECTRONICS OF THE FI & go have fun!
The idea is to TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOUR SITUATION,
Low emission hassles
least amount of work to make this work.
You do not know how to wire the car for the FI AND IT CAN LEAD TO AGGRIVATION in the future when you need to study instead of problem solving computers.
Junk the computer idea, find a carb intake or get new intake, headers, wrecking yard carb rebuilt also need matching distributorused with carb engine!!
You may spend more money on the carb set up, but, it will be quicker and more reliable in the long run.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

well seince no one really answered your question. Yes it can be done. and It is an pretty simple swap if you already have a 6. It would be easiest if you can make a weather proof box to keep the computer in the engine bay so you do not have to drill any holes in the firewall.

 

3.4L, complete, no accessories $350 - $450

Hot damn, thats good stuff... I'll drive down there personally to buy that kinda good stuff... UGH~! I'm droolling... Try to find that for that price at Pick Your Parts here in NJ... hah, fat chance, it'd be 3 times that much...

Oh yeah, as for the swap... Where ever you get the engine from, take the computer out of as well... mark all the wires, and pray that you don't run into any complications... It'd be alot easier if you had the donor next to you. Good luck.

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1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

Mods:
Removed air baffles, mandrel bent cat-back pipes (but stock replacment muffler, Dynomax Turbo and Catco converter are on thier way)

 

So many options....
After taking the dash apart and putting back together I realized changing the wiring harness won't be hard, but I may have to do surgery for the powr hatch, defroster and the other switch. Looks like I don't even have a computer, or I'm just cluless. My repar manual says it's on the front pass floor. looks like nothing was ever there and theres a 2 unused connectors at the very end next to that light green thing with a circuit board in. But I'm thinking the computer probably that thingy behind the diagnostic connector. That would make sense to me.
I'll keep my eyes open for a donor car, which might end up better than what I have, but by then the interior will be restored in mine and the rearend, suspension will be in tip-top condition.

This is soo much fun, really. My '86 Grand Am barely broke down over last three years and all I got to do to it was put new calipers on.

It's so hard to find a good V6 here and $350 dolars us = $700 cdn then ship and an engine across the continent. I'm almost considering the V8 it would be so much cheaper in the sort run, and parts are a bit cheaper. My friend has an early 80-'s rebuilt LT1 he'll take $800 for I know thats a whicked deal but when is -45 degress celius, -65 with the windchill and I go the start that V8, I can almost see the needle moving towards empty now....

Looks like I'll have to make my budget to include a 3.4l/ 5spd from a wrecker (Hey Mom...Dad....). what do I need to know about the tranny?, will hook up perfectly (drive shaft) I want to keep is 5spd, will a 4th gen fit into mine or will I have to find and older tranny? This will be fun I get to look forward to several days at my auto wrecker learning how to tear a 4th gen apart for the engine and all the electrical. Then I'm guessing I get to customize it all for the options(lack of) on my car. What about the instrument pannel? Remember everything MUST work inside the car for the safty.


Brain storm: V6 MPFI is what I want. just install the computer in the engine bay (weatherproofed) splice it to the wiring harness with the use of wiring diagrams. That way I don't have to take my dash off again and change the harness. Reuse the fuse box ( have fuses for new stuff in the engine bay with the computer) and disconnect old computer. Do I have this straight?
D
oes it sound like I know what I'm doing yet?

 

Where abouts in Canada are you?
Just out of curiosity...

 

Hi. I think that you should be able to make this swap. But, I would not cut or modify the wiring harness for the computer. I would just add in the extra wires for the electric fuel pump to the cars wiring.

Let me give you some ideas on how I would do it, and what you may need.

You will need the engine with everything on it. The fuel lines, electric fuel pump, the fuel gauge sending unit, electric fan, the trans with cross member, AND all the wiring with sensors!!!!!

If you can, you should pull the engine yourself and not take anything off it. If you go into the passenger side of the car and look under the dash then you will see where the computer should be. There should be only one plug that goes into the car and the rest should go to the computer. There is a plastic cover that is by the passenger side door- if you take this off you will see where the computer wiring harness goes out to the engine. You should also take the wire harness that plugs into the firewall on the driver side. (You will probably need to change some of the wiring here, because GM made some changes to the connectors that they used over the years.)

Once you have pulled all the parts, you should start by putting the fuel pump in the gas tank, and run the wire from it. (I would put this in first because you have to drop the gas tank.) You should then put the engine and trans in, putting everthing back the way it came out of the other car.

I realize that this is a very over simplified version of what has to be done. Yes, it will be a lot of work. But, if you can do it all yourself, then it should be worth it.

If you have any questions that I could help you with - email me.

 

Well it starting to look like my best and quickest option is grab a newer V6, trade the mpfi and distributer for an intake and other pieces. Get a carb and rebuild it or buy a good one -Recomedations?-. I seems this car came factory without a computer or lost it a long time ago.

Maybe a good distributer too, i'm gonna do the timeing chain, get wires, rotor, and cap anyhow. If I get the carb right it will good as new I hope.

But I'm watching the total loss cars for the whole set up. They had an awesome V8 T/A good shape, low km's, nice hood/nose with no wheels CHEAP. Soooo tempting.

Thanks all

 

never pass up a trans am engine! i turned down a Z28 engine and tranny to swap into my car, and ive been kickin myself ever since. GET THE V8!

 

Wait a sec- You wouldn't have to drill any holes in the firewall for the computer! Your '83 has (or used to have, hehe) a computer in the same location as any 85-up MPFI motor. The pass-thru for the computer harness can be seen if you remove the passenger side fender (or, if you want, you can remove "only" the pass side inner plastic fender). You'll see a rectangular piece of plastic with a million wires going through it. There's a black plastic clip, looks like a sideways "C", that locks the pass-through to the frame. Pull the clip, disconnect the harness at the computer (two connectors), then pull the harness "out" of the hole. Cake.

Also, you won't be able to re-use a piece of your '83's computer harness. The '82-'84 ECM's used connectors called "card-edge" connectors... the connectors have a slot in them that slides over the PC board of the ECM. '85-up computers use the normal pin & socket connectors. That isn't a big deal... the computer harness isn't connected to the rest of the stuff underneath the dash. Like I just said in my previous paragraph, when you pull the old ECM harness out of the pass-thru under the fender, you'll see that from the fender to the computer, there's only about a foot of wiring.

I agree with what Camaro84 said, try to pull the motor yourself. If you can't do that, at least grab the wiring harness for yourself. It's a pain in the butt (yes, I've done it when I totalled my car), but it's possible. Oh, and TAKE PHOTOS! Maybe 35% of my engine bay wiring is where it should be.. the rest is a "close guess". Nothing's getting burned, but I know it's not how the factory did it. That harness is one big *** sucker...

How are the emissions requirements in Canada? Putting a non-computer-controlled carb & distributor on your '83 might be illegal.. which makes no sense to me, since that kind of setup can be made to run at the emissions standards for '83.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/001462.html

This is how I did my swap.
Get the 3.4 block, save all the parts, you can, you need proper engine mounts (VERY IMPORTANT DETAIL!!) and get the carb, intake, distributor from a S-10 Blazer, same thing. YOU CAN FIND THOSE SIMPLE LITTLE THINGS.
Yea, you can rewire the car, but why?
Keep it simple, get it running! Then decide to modify it.


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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Look under where's my ECM?, I replied to the wrong topic.

The plan in my mind so far:

Find 3.4L and matching 5spd at the wrecker with less than 100km so I won't be tempted to do the heads up.

-OR-

If the junkyard guys are up their own *** on a price for 1993+ 3.4 V6 settle for a 2nd gen 2.8 with less than 150kms with matching 5spd

-AND-

Grab an intake/carb/dist off of an 82+ S-10 or 82-84 firebird/Camaro (is there something more special about getting it from a truck?).

-Then-
1) Rebuild carb. I bet that 3.4 can take more fuel than a stock 2.8l carb can give. A 500cfm should give it. Whats stock cfm's for fuel injection? Maybe a 600 or 650 cfm carb is needed. I never played anything other than stock. I wanna floor it and not have that usual 2.8 hesitation deal, and not have just bog and fire through the carb.

2) Get the intake cleaned proffessionally I don't have the chemical. Is this needed?

3) Pick out a performance distributor
Accel is Pretty cheap at Canadian Tire.

QUESTION: about eight years ago my bro thought it would beef up his '84 V8 T/A if he bought Accell wires/cap/rotor/distrib. There wasn't a noticible increase in accelleration. But there was a very noticable whine in stereo going in sync the RPM'S and the wires didn't like to stay on as well. I think to this day I still twitch once in awhile from grabbing that coil wire I was only fourteen I didn't know... He already had a line filter and we tried a few different ways to run the wiring. After calling Accel, and them basically saying to live with it, it's a normal part of owning a Chevy. The only fix was to to take the stuff off and back to the store and trade for stock replacements.
Since them my opinion of Accel hasn't been too hot but I've noticed people have them in their signatures alot so they MUST be good . Is this still a problem? Does it even apply to V6's? Is it possible these wires were made for resale at Canadian Trash much the same way Sony makes lower quality (for more quantity) stuff for chains and quality stuff for Sony Stores?

4) Go for a Chemical and Mechanical breaking-in ceremony Schedualed Date: July 27th, 2001

 

Cleaning is easy
HOW
Kerosense & a paint brush (the $1 type, several of them) and a can of brake cleaner.
Use lots to clean the intke, then hit it with brake cleaner.
It'll look great.
NEXT, the truck.
Why?
S-10 Blazers are MUCH MORE COMMON to FIND than the old Camaro/Firebird.
I am offering you a suggestion for the options to score the intake carb dist.
Accel stuff?
I love it!
I've used it for about 20 years.
Ignition whine?
POSSIBLY USED the wrong type of plug wires!
Maybe go the one without radio shieled wiring, built into it!
The stock carb from the truck is very adequate.
GM recommends you take all old stuff off the truck/car to swap onto the 3.4 crate motor GM sells for this conversion.
Work with the simple stuff, to get you on the road, then go "hot Rod" it, after it runs.
Adding electronics & this & that, MAY delay you starting the car, in the end!
You will win with the thoughts you have. Try to stick to your plans of simplicity, to go back on the road.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Go to this thread, check out the one guys photo essay on is 2.8 & 3.4 swap, using a GM Crate engine & a carb.
https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/003316.html


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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA