Ok I got them headers today. The Primaries are 1.5" collectors are a little under 2" runner length is right around 22".

What I am going to do is since the Lowes Conduit bender is only 1" is gonna try a pipe bender for 1.5" and 2"(Should work. or at least hoping it will)

ok more details. The ones I got DO NOT have the EGR hook up. I will try to get more details on the size and hook up of the EGR so I can cut and weld on a bung fitting for the EGR to keep 'em legal(Smog Happy)
The metal these are going to be formed of. Primaries, 1.5" .035 type 21-6-9 Stainless Steel. Flange .032(just over 1/4") by 3" 4130 Steel. THESE FLANGES WILL NEED TO BE PAINTED. I will try to find some Stainless High Temp paint so they will not stand out too bad. The collectors I am having to farm out and should be getting a reply hopefully today. As far as I know these too are standard steel and need to be painted (I don't know) but they are 1.5" I.D into a 2" collector(So it will be slightly bigger then the originals).
These are reletively light so S&H should not be that bad on them.
The cross overs however will be a while as I will have to install a "new" set to get the turns, demensions ect right. So the First couple batches probly will not have the luxury of getting the matched cross over Sorry.

As a final note I would like to thank everyone here for being patient and supportive on this.

 

can we order them without the egr hookup, i placed a preorder by email today and would not like the egr hookup if possible. you will mail me back with the info and contract i take it?

-Bruce

 

If you don't want the EGR it's just that much easier for me. Again these are not yet in production(just that much closer now) Yes I will email you back with the proper info.

 

Camaro what number is on the flange? Is It
#68430? The collectors should be 2.5"

------------------
Chevy 2.8L 60° V6
Mods:
?K&N Filter Lid
?87 Formula Hood
?Bosch Platinum +4
?Hi-Flo CatCo CAT
?Flowmaster 80 Series Muffler
?83 Trans Am 15x7 Turbo Fin Wheels
?B.F.Goodrich Radial T/A 225/60-15
?Chevy 2.8L Heddman Headers (Going on soon)

Aol instant messenger: FIREAM

<A HREF="http://digilander.iol.it/simpson50/1_multimedia/simpson/gif_animate/06/homer_14.gif

http://www.geocities.com/fiream/RobsCarArtPa.html?994187591828" TARGET=_blank>http://digilander.iol.it/simpson50/1_multimedia/simpson/gif_animate/06/homer_14.gif

http://www.geocities.com/fiream/RobsCarArtPa.html?994187591828</A>

 

he he Yeah sorry got numbers mixed up. Its just under 2.5". So I will get the collectors to 2.5 Sorry.

With that what I would do with the cross over is a 2.25" from the drivers side to merge to a 2.5" on the passenger side. I think that will help flow alot more. So a reducer down to 2.25 drivers then completely open on the passanger to a nice high flow 2.5 inch cat then the 2.5 inch cat back and you've got one SWEET free flowing exhaust!.

 

Okay just making sure, I have the same set.

------------------
Chevy 2.8L 60° V6
Mods:
?K&N Filter Lid
?87 Formula Hood
?Bosch Platinum +4
?Hi-Flo CatCo CAT
?Flowmaster 80 Series Muffler
?83 Trans Am 15x7 Turbo Fin Wheels
?B.F.Goodrich Radial T/A 225/60-15
?Chevy 2.8L Heddman Headers (Going on soon)

Aol instant messenger: FIREAM

<A HREF="http://digilander.iol.it/simpson50/1_multimedia/simpson/gif_animate/06/homer_14.gif

http://www.geocities.com/fiream/RobsCarArtPa.html?994187591828" TARGET=_blank>http://digilander.iol.it/simpson50/1_multimedia/simpson/gif_animate/06/homer_14.gif

http://www.geocities.com/fiream/RobsCarArtPa.html?994187591828</A>

 

Are these full lengh headders or shotys like the v-8's? I have a friend that is very instested in a set.
SSC

------------------
85 Camaro, 355/400 "drag car" current DD 13.1@ 101mph on its last season run.
Plans: Possibly add N20 for next season.
82 Firbird, rebuilt 355 for it and slaped a 700r4 in. The 700r4 crapped out so back to the tb350

 

first line of posting,
"The Primaries are 1.5" collectors are a little under 2.5" runner length is right around 22"."
... Just giving you a hard time, yes they are full length.

 

camaro hunwhen you said 2.25 to 2.5 your talkin about the pipes, NOT the headers right? im goin to set up dual exaughst with these im hopin that they equal in size

-Bruce

 

Ok to straighten this out. THE COLLECTORS WILL BE 2.5" O.D.. If you want to run true duals, get 2.5" I.D. pipe and your fine. They will slip over the collectors.

 

what I was meaning by the 2 different sizes, is the cross over pipe. The larger passanger side will act as a "Vacuum" on the smaller 2.25 drivers side, but 2.25 is still plenty of volume for exhaust flow.

 

gotcha

 

Camaro_hunter_D:

Primarys: 1.5 in
Collectors: 2.5 in OD

When you say "crossover pipe" you mean the y-pipe? Just making sure our vocab works out...

Why not do a 2.5 inch ID y-pipe, have it collect into a 3in pipe and then run a full 3 inch exhaust... I think thats what I'm going to do... why use reducers and such and use different sized pipes? Why not progressivly get bigger to accomodate the ever increasing exhaust volume... I could see using a 2.5 in full exhaust instead of 3in, but I'm not getting the whole reducer thing...

------------------
1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

C'mon, spin 'em for papa...
http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

 

3 inch for the non forced induction is too big. 2 1/2 is the biggest you should really go, keep a little back pressure so you do not lose torque. The reason of running the smaller tube into the large is to create a semi vacuum on the drivers side to help evacuate the exhaust a little quicker since it has to travel longer to the main system. and yes the crossover = Y Pipe. Hope that makes sense.


[This message has been edited by Camaro_hunter_d (edited November 17, 2001).]

 

I have original hooker headers for the 2.8 sittin on the passenger seat waiting to be put on if your in the area and want to use them for a looky...

 

Well guys I have called around. I found a few suppliers for tubing. I also called the guy I am getting the collectors from. He is suggesting for good scavenging of the exhaust I should use 1 7/8" Outlet, then step up to the 2.5" to get even better vacuum effect. So thats what I am going to do. The Collector itself will be 1 7/8, but I will run a adapter to the 2.5".

 

nevermind question answered in email

-Bruce

[This message has been edited by DeadHero8 (edited November 19, 2001).]

 

right now i dont have the money...but u can count me in on the headers...i will be ordering a set from u

 

how long for them turbo headers?

 

how long for them turbo headers?

 

When I start making enough money to buy the turbo, and other items I will make them for install on my car for testing. Right now I am making bupkis. I am hoping when these normal headers get rolling I can get enough. But I am having trouble with my POS welder and returnbing it for a different one and I am picking up the tubing today. Thats leaves me waiting on the bender to arrive. But after I get the stuff needed to warant the turbo set up I will make it. Right now no $$$$ no $$$ for product developement.

 

a temp welder is a bettery, jumper cables, & a pocket full of change.

 

I am thinking that is better then the welder I got right now. I am taking it back today and getting a wire feed 170 amp mig welder. That I think will be more then enough for these.

 

can you actually use a battery and some jumper cables as a temp welder? ground the battery and use the the other to heat the metal? Cool..

------------------
1972 Chevy Chevelle "Malibu"
Hooker Headers, Flowmaster 40 series mufflers, accel 8.8 wires,Edelbrock performer intake Edelbrock Carb, Msd Blaster 2 Coil, Torque Thrust "D" wheels
Click here for my Malibu information
In Memory of #3 Dale Earnhardt

 

but when you connect the - & + isnt it possible to blow up the battery?

there will be "acid all ofer tha place, you be screamin cuz da acid's all over ya face"
u know that what happened to Rumplestiltskin

 

Just don't use .50 peices, keep an eye on the battery. I twill start to swell, thsat's when you stop, let it go back down while you work on something else, then go back. I highly recomend NOT using this method for structural welding, more for like tack welding to temporarily hold parts together when test fitting parts.
A face sheild would help though.

 

no worries I got a wire feed welder today. Alot easier to use. I LOVE THIS THING!.

 

What type of welder do I need to weld aluminum?
I have an aluminum cast wheel, I need to repair.
Seems like the perfect time to purchase the welder.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Karl,

Aluminum welding = TIG welders...

------------------
1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

C'mon, spin 'em for papa...
http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

 

Are those DIFFERENT THAN the small house hold welders the size, larger than a bread box?
Or a computer monitor?
The ones you can do small sheet metal repairs, etc?

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

a TIG is about the same size as a normal 70 amp welder, at least you can buy them that size. Its just the power they use is enormous. Very fine welding machines thoguh. You can only weld aluminum though nothing else with TIG. TIG's are VERY expensive though. May be cheaper to get another wheel. Seriously. The cheapest I have seen a decent TIG for is around 700 bucks.

 

I priced them out here for $1400.
Nah, I'll figure out a way.
Maybe take a class or have a class weld my wheel.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

I got the bender today.
Bad thing is it won't mandrel bend. I am sending this POS back to them to get my $175 bucks back and going to a different company that I have talked too. Sorry guys.

Heres an idea though see if you guys agree. If I heat the tube up will that help? I have a hand help tourch that I can use.

 

You can weld aluminum with a MIG, also. I can buy a conversion kit for my LE MIG that will work aluminum... but I'd never touch a wheel. I've heard of professional repairs only being $100/wheel...


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

 

Is the pipe kinking? If so, cap off 1 end, fill th epipe with sand and then bend. the sand should keep the pipe from kinking when being bent.

 

kinking is not the word. I have just gotten of the phone with the other company I have been talking to and they say that their bender will not work right either. I will try the sand thing and if it does not warp it too bad then I will go that route. I do have other ideas though. One of which includes schedule 40 iron pipe.

 

Holy crap! headers who woulda thought, Will they work on my 3.1L? if so, please shoot me an e-mail at Jinx2148@aol.com, I will be ordering them on monbay if they'll work!

 

IF I can get the pipe to stop kinking yes they will fit the whole 60* family of 3rd gen f bodies. 2.8/3.1 and to the lucky few with the swapped in 3.4(Imagine how they will wake up that torque monster) I am going out tomarrow to see where I can get this heavy a$$ pipe(probly lowes) and I will get a 5? pound bag of sand(Think that will be enough to fill a 22 inch tube? I think it should be more then enough, but anyway after that Bring on the DUCK TAPE BABY!

I forgot to mention, the Hedman headers are only 1.25" Primaries(I coulda swore I measured them to 1.5"). Hmm well anyway the tubing I have right now is 1.5" I.D. so the flow will be great in them if I can get this damn thing to work.




[This message has been edited by Camaro_hunter_d (edited November 29, 2001).]

 

Well how much are you gonna charge for these headers. I'm having my 2.8 swapped for a 3.4 right now and would absolutely love a set. It would sound so much better with my flowmaster. I know I could find the cash for those. Anywayz I'm just asking for what price your asking and then where ya live.
thanx

 

How much are your gonna charge for these headers and where are you shippign them from. I know my new 3.4 in my 89 Bird would love those headers especially with my flowmaster 80 series exhaust. It might wake up my small beast heh.
Thanx

------------------
Josh
1989 Firebird
Working the 2.8 to 3.4 swap with a 5 speed.
Kills: 2000 Silverado V6, 1995 v6 mustang, 1994 rodeo v6, 2001 Ford Sport trac, 1992 honda prelude riced out

Losses: 89 GTA, 95 Z28, 90 Camaro 305 TBI with mods

 

Its somewhere in the above posts but around 150ish when I finally get a bender that works. S&H is UPS Ground Origin Zip 62999 weight 20-25 pounds. It cost me something like 35 to have them overnighted through my account prom pen. from the guy I bought the originals from. these things wiegh next to nothing.

 

Ok guys I am working on another Idea. The sand thing did not really work out because the angles I have to bend the tubing to just wont agree.

I have found that 1 1/4 conduit tubing(Mild Steel) is maybe 1/16" smaller then the Hedman headers so I am going to go with that. It has 1 1/4 I.D. so it's plenty big. I am working on an idea on using 1 1/2" rigid to bend the smaller tubing. I am driving this poor guy with this bender company nuts. he thinks that with what i want to do will work but hes tring to find someone close to me that has this bender so I can go look at it and make my own judement call. As of right now though I think it will work the way I want it too.

Just keeping you all informed.

 

Camaro_Hunter... make up your mind dude, what size ID are the primaries on the Hedmans? 1.5, 1.25, 1.3125?

A quarter inch makes a big difference when it comes to headers... My suggestion would be to get a mandrel bender that can do 1.5in stuff, and then perhaps offer different sized headers? 1.5inch for the rev-happy 2.8, 1.25 for the torque-ier 3.1 perhaps? Or just offer the different sizes depending on what people want? Just a suggestion, don't chew me out...

Oh yeah, and a question I've always wanted to ask. What do the exhaust ports looks like on the outsize of the engine where they meet up to the headers/manifolds? Are they designed to be a flush type fit, or are they just square POS's... I would think that there is something to be had if you matched everything up right there...

Just some thoughts.

------------------
1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

C'mon, spin 'em for papa...
http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

 

duck tape = duct tape....but who's being technical.

sounds great dude, keep up the hard work

 

 

Well the hedmans are a hair over 1.25" INSIDE DIAMETER, a hair under 1.5" OUTSIDE DIAMETER. The tubing I am going to use now is 1.25" INSIDE DIAMETER. So the INSIDE DIAMETERS are maybe 1/16" off the hedmans.
Now If I could get a good mandrel bender for under $400 I would in a heart beat. But I am having trouble finding one that both me and the sales person are positive that will work the way I need it too. Sorry but I do not have $4000-12,000 for the hydraulic kind that headman probly used to originally make these. And frankly even if I diod have that much cash to but a $4000 one I would'nt cause the demand is under the $2000 mark these. Yes there is a demand I know, thats why I have been busting my a$$ tring to find a way that I can reproduce these for a DECENT PRICE. If you want to spend $4-500 per set of headers I may get a $3-4000 machine. But no one will spend that much and I do not want to have to charge that much. I want this to be about the same price as a cam cause they will compliment each other.
If I can find a bender for under $1000 even I would be estacic, but I can't. I do have a certain radius I need the bender to accomdate. I am not finding a bender that can do it yet without being absolutlely sure it will not collapse the tube walls. and I think I have done more to try this then anyone else here so just be patient. This will happen.
Trust me if I did not think that I could do this some way some how i would not have enev mentioned this at all. I would happily just put these things on my car and be on my merry way. But I am tring to get these reproduced for a decent price. Meaning I will have to do it. If I have to farm out work and buy parts here and there then the price goes up.
I think we can all agree that I could be charging alot more for these than I will be.


As far as the mounting surface it's flat. Smooth. As far as the exhaust ports they are round.

 

Why not make it simple?
Find a local pipe bender shop that will allow you or do a deal with you, to bend up the pipes & you just weld & sell?
Is that a practical option for you.
Honest, you really need the "right" tool.
It's expensive & yea, it's the right tool.
The pipe bender, air pressured, with the jigs & stuff.
The idea of "sand" is for "small tube" items, without complex bends.
Kinda sucks, but, that's why it goes that way.
Have you tried talking to "Headers By Ed"? He makes custom pipes. So does Doug Thorley.
Have you visited any Circle Track guys out your way?
YOu got the right idea, but, really need that pipe bender to make it "operational" for your sales.
Which is why the "Big Guys" do it in volumn.
If you got 50 people to commit with a 30-50% down payment, you got the Pipe Bender part done, easy. Find the guy with the jig bender, to bend them up, waving the cash in his face.
What's wrong with doing a group purchase of these off the shelf header from Hedman or Hooker? You're gonna tell me they don't make the F body V-6 headers, anymore?
Sounds easier to just buy the S-10 Blazer ones & spend the time, to modify those few bends with a hammer & wood.
I am speaking from encouragment.
There is another way outta this box.


------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

I'm sorry CHD, I didn't mean for my post to come out mean like it did. No doubt people understand what you're going through.

I'll keep my eyes out for things that might interest you as far as benders go, and just basically keep my mouth shut, I don't wanna **** you off to the point where you don't recreate them.

Anyway, sorry. Good luck.

(Oh, and Karl. We can't do a GP from Hedman or Hooker because they don't make them anymore, and I doubt they'd retool their machines for some petty cash in their hands. I have been through that route already before CHD got his set)

------------------
1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

C'mon, spin 'em for papa...
http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

 

!lightbulb!

What if you got a regular bender, and heated up the metal before you bent it? Heat it up cherry red/yellow, and then bend it, possibly in addition to the sand method. It would allow the outside of the curve to stretch... possibly only heat up the outside of the pipe where the outside of the curve is gunna be.

That way you wouldn't be compressing the inside of the curve, rather you'd be stretching the outside.

Would that be too much work? (granted it's alot already) Would those cheapo propane torches heat the metal enough?

You're still going to need the mandrel insert though...
It's an idea....... :shrug:

[This message has been edited by Xenodrgn (edited December 01, 2001).]

 

Well First off I FOUND A BENDER! It's only 475ish including the Die set I need. I am fighting with my G/F over it cause she want her parents to buy it for me for christmas and I tell her I need it now not 3 weeks from now. But anyway I found one that WILL WORK the tubing is thick enough so I can do the bends I need too.

Second, Xeno no harm done, I am just really pissed off at these damn things. It just seems alot of what I have tried in the past just does not work the way I need it too. Now with the torch thing. I thought of that but the workmanship would be inconsistant at best. And If I filled the tube with sand then got that tube red hot I would only have a tube full of molten glass.

And ked I did find a local shop that said I could use their bender, but at a premium price. Too high for my and your guys tastes(like 60 Bucks and hour or 20 bucks per finished tube) and its POS Non mandrel bender to boot. So that was killed before it began. The owner knew what I was going to do (or Figured it out after I told him the numbers I was going to do) and thought he would get his grubby little hands on my dessert. NOT.

Now to finalize the numbers here.


PRICE OF A COMPLETE SET(CROSS OVER PIPE NOT INCLUDED AND WILL NOT BE UNTILL I GET A SET ON MY CAR TO MAKE THE CROSS OVER) IS $150.

SHIPPING IS UPS GROUND. CHEAPEST THAT IS IN THIS AREA AND YOU HAVE A TRACKING NUMBER. PRICE UNKNOWN. GO TO WWW.UPS.COM CLICK ON RATES AND PUT IN APPROX 20-25 POUNDS AND ORIGIN ZIP IS 62999. I NEED TO FIND THE BOXES TO SHIP THESE IN, OR ELSE I COULD GIVE YOU THE DEMINTIONS TOO.

THE EASIEST WAY TO PAY FOR THEM IS PAYPAL. WWW.PAYPAL.COM NOW IF YOU DO USE PAYPAL WITH A CREDIT CARD ADD $6.00. This is for their charge to me for you using a credit card. A check card I would imagine the same fee would apply. You can upload the money directly from your bacnk account too. This is free and there are no other fees.

So IF AND ONLY IF YOU USE A CREDIT CARD ADD $6.00. Not using the 'card just the $150 plus the S&H from UPS.

The info on the headers. Right now I am using 1.25 I.D. MILD ALLOY STEEL. I beleive it to be rust proof NOT POSITIVE. The headers will be painted with 1500* paint before they ship(color will be aluminum).
Runners will be one piece and approx 22" long and again 1.25 I.D..
The flange will be 3 ich wide and approx 11.5" long, approx 3/8" thich and also be mild steel.
The collectors(Unless other wise requested) will be 1 7/8". This is the sixe that the guy I am getting these from says works best with the seqential firing of our engines and for the best scavenging effect for our odd pulse emgine.
When you go to a shop to have the cross over made(At first before they become available by me) I would suggest getting a slide over pipe to step up to 2" I.D. on the drives side and a 2.5" I.D. on the passanger side to further help the scavange/Vacuum effect.
And you could have a true 2.5" high flow system. I am going to change my email link in my profile so that you get the one that I check about 7-15 times a day.

If I am on(and not playing starcraft yes I am addicted to that game) My yahoo pager ID is GenerationXRacing (Sometimes I login under invisable to ignore my G/F so unless it says offline try it). I may download the AOL IM again do not know. User name would be the same if I get it.

Thanks for the patience guys. I told you all that I would find a way to do these things and I finally have(Or getting) all the things needed to get out consistant quality stuff. So at most the latest will be around the new year. He nice way to start a new year though huh? a new slewing of performance parts for an ignored and underestiamted engine. I am positive after I get these headers foing I will get the $$$ needed for the R&D on the other projects I have lined up.