I have recently (past 6 months) got my 92 3.1L V6 back onto the road after it sat for about 8 years by a relative. I redid all the suspension, welded up some floor pans, and replaced all the brake and fuel lines, fuel filter, smog pump, brake calipers, all steering components, all brakes and bearings. coolant temp sensor, cat back exhaust, new alt, stock rims with brand new tires.

The car has 88,000 miles on it. is in good shape. starts up with no problems. seems to run just fine... BUt i have gotten anywhere from 14.5mpg to the most recent 10 mpg. (the 14mpg i took a decent trip). I know that short trips are not good for mpg. I drive 5 miles to work and 5 miles back mon-fri. thats it for the most part... so i can understand "not the best" mpg. but i mean 10mpg? i get better in my carbed 355.. in my el camino.

I have no fuel leaks (park in a garage i would smell it), and have checked the plugs for bad / fouling everything is clean. If i stick a paper towel in the exhaust pipe and wipe the inside i get a lil black soot on the towel. But its not like on the floor or anything.

Any help please... THIS IS RIDICULOUS!

 

Have you replaced the O2 sensor? Had the injectors checked/cleaned/replaced? Checked fuel pressure? Vacuum leaks?

 

I kno there are no vacuum leaks bc when i got the car everything was rotted so i replaced ever inch of line connected to anything... one at a time to make sure nothing got mixed up..

i have no Engine lights on, so i wasnt sure if anything needed to be checked or replaced... I will have to check into those things, thanks

I have done alot with cars, but i have never owned a car that is stock and still has a running computer in it..
I have however for everyone information bought and ran the Tunerpro RT and hardware needed for the 3.1L. I have ran it and logged it a few times. Just not sure what to look for yet. I bought it in anticipation for it helping later in the life of the car.

 

spark plugs? fuel cleaner? like injector/carb ?
oil change, make sure you got air in the tires?
install a turbo? (car weight. v8's actually get better milage than v6's due to vehicle weight actually takes more gas to stop and go with a v6) from what ive noticed

 

replace wire and plugs .cant hurt and cheap. :/

 

oil is fresh, new air filter, ran seafoam once, tires are full / new.. I am going through some logs of data i saved from a few drives i did, and am playing the data back in real time. It shows that the ECM can see everything injector final pulse width, o2 sensor is ok / closed and open loop condiations, stuff like that.. its reading the right coolant temp ( measured with a laser probe to confirm). i will try the ohm test the injectors and a fuel pressure test / leak down test.

For the fuel from what i have found its over 36psi running, (like 45psi at WOT) and a holding psi of about 30psi after the motor is off for a lil while?

 

I started with it running poorly and then it died so I had to learn from scratch. I've found that it can be a good idea to start from the inside out with a lot of the components. That means the injectors. If you don't know for sure the injectors are good in every way the rest is almost pointless. Also, my fuel pressure looked ok but the old diaphragm was leaking gas which got sucked straight into the intake through the vacuum tube. Gas was also running down to the AIR pump control valve and may have messed it up so the AIR system may be injecting air when it shouldn't. Id suggest checking those things and maybe disconnect and plug the AIR line to the exhaust manifold. It may eliminate a possible problem while you diagnose what's going on. Also plug other vac lines that aren't necessary for the engine control.

 

Is the engine running in the +190* range while going down the road? If its running 170-180* then that explains your poor mileage.
Its hard to get good mpg in the winter, the winter blend fuels don't help & the air is cold & denser so that the ecm has to add more fuel to keep the proper ratio.

 

@Base91 - I understand. I will look into the injectors tonight or tomo hopefully. And when you say diaphragm do you mean the diaphragm in the fuel pressure regulator? I havent really gotten into and info regarding that. So anything u have for me as far as testing, hoses, and replacement would be a huge help, if you have time to type it all out...

@ex-x-fire - ya i do understand that in general gas mileage is going to be worse in the winter with the fuel blends and the car taking longer to warm up and such. And ya i would say the car might get to 190deg before i hit work lol. And that will have some issues with it, now that its cold out. I have fuel logged since early Nov. (about 50-60 deg weather) and avg mpg is 12.58 (i use an app on my android to log the fuel and miles)And thats over about 1050 miles logged.
I just dont think that it should be this low even with the cold weather.

 

I've got a 195 degree thermo and it still runs cool when moving and usually too rich so far. However, even when it was bad I still got 16 mpg. I'm hoping to see some good improvement now that the FPR is fixed and AIR pump is disconnected for now. I tested/fixed/replaced several parts but I didn't make real headway until I replaced the injectors. SouthBay have a really good deal.

 

Well at least I don't feel as bad anymore knowing that I'm not the only one that's getting 10 mpg. I've got a well worn 82' 2.8 with the feedback carb. I figure at that rate I can by-pass the carb and just run the fuel line right to the intake!

 

I'm curious if you have some bad injectors. Like yours my runs and starts just fine, and gets very poor mileledge. You have overdrive and injection and still get the same 10 MPG,Wow!

 

LOL ya... i am also interested as to find out why i throw money out every month haha... but ya i just really want to get this guy running at 100% I have taken the ignition system apart.. distributor cap, wires, plugs, ign coil... and the plugs looks great. i brushed them off just to make sure. the wires, cap, and rotor, look good. But i think i am going to replace them now just bc im tired of the poor gas mileage, along with a new ign coil. I am also going to just replace the O2 sensor i think... i am almost 100% sure that it is the factory original....

I am gunna test the injectors (pressure and ohms). and see what that tells me.. if not i am looking at the remaned ones from southbay... i am assuming that the ones they have listed for the 92 3.1 firebirds are the same for the camaro 3.1.... only 140$ a set shipped... any other parts u can think of? I am going to check the lines going to the fuel pressure regulator, it looks to be realy expensive to "just change out"

I just want this is be a solid car. seeing my el camino is down for now... any other thoughts on parts or what to check? i appreciate all your help

 

Well if you already fixed the FPR and it's not leaking, I'm kinda at a loss. If you had a weak coil, your plugs would show it. What color are they? If they are black then, I would say to replace the O2, and or that coil. They (O2) start to go downhill after about 60,000 anyway, so it's not a bad idea. Mine runs strong (for a 2.8), but just drinks it like a gas-o-holic! I'm going to try a pre feedback carb on a TBI intake. If I have a improvement, I'll get a HEI distributor as well. I've had a few varajets, and I don't care for them much. Now before anyone jumps me about the carb swap, let me explain that all the emission stuff has long been down the road, and I ready doubt the factory ECM is even working at 100%. I got the car free, and as a cancer patient, I don't have alot $$$ to work with. I figure if I could get 17 mpg out of a 72 C-10 6cyl, them I should be able to do the same with the Camaro. One other thing that will kill your mileage is a dirty air cleaner.

 

When my 3.1 dropped from 23mpg to 12mpg it was the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve had gone bad, kind of to be expected on a 190,000 mile engine. Once that got replaced the mpgs went back to where they started . Unfortunately though, that particular part runs about $165, so if you can test it and make sure it's not damaged that would probably be for the best.

 

Thanks for the tip! I'm pretty sure the one on mine has been replaced at on time as it looks brand new, but that might help davila0115.


David

 

Ya I have taken the whole digital EGR apart and cleaned it in the past... i was getting a code for it. I got the car from an cousin, who had bought it from the dealer brand new i 92. and the only work ever done to it was by the dealer. i guess the motor blew a freeze plug on the back of the motor, and it was under warranty. So i guess when they pulled the motor he paid a few hundred bucks outta pocket and had them rebuild the whole thing. When they put the EGR valve on, someone wasnt paying much attention.. and they put a 3rd gasket in the mix.. 2 gaskets one ontop of the other. and bolted it down. and basically blocked off the exhaust into the egr valve. so when i pulled everything off the egr looked brand new just a lil surface rust on the adapter plate. Everything got polished up and put back together. Since i can datalog, i can see that the ECM is seeing and turning on and off the 3 different sections of the EGR valve...

 

Yes. You get a TGO discount too. I got a set and gives me confidence I'm starting from a good base. The FPR diaphragm was about $50 from Rockauto and easy to swap out. Especially given what you'll need to take off to get to the injectors. I found buying the set from Southbay was cheaper than taking my injectors to get them checked/cleaned etc.! And you don't have to dig in there again. As for the egr you can block it off while diagnosing other stuff. The idea is to remove variables until you get the engine running ok. Then reconnect stuff one at a time.

 

I understand and agree with the fuel injector analysis, and I would certainly have them cleaned and checked (or replaced with a reputable dealer set) but my number one problem was the EGR, as mentioned above.

My 3 stages were also working well, in a 90 3.1 bird, but it was mechanically leaking and causing my mileage to go to hell. I actually tested it by packing the tube with aluminum foil until it was effectively clogged and my gas mileage went WAY up!. A new EGR valve and it was fixed. Cleaning and matching the injectors gave me another bump in mileage. Even the K&N filter gave me over 1 mpg as well.

Don't give up! The money you spend will pay you back in fuel savings. I got 17+ in town mileage with my 248k mile 90 Firebird with the 3.1 engine.

 

See there is so much to looking into i get overwhelmed with what to look at first.. and then be 100% sure that its a bad part you know...

Im not saying i got money laying everywhere but i can spend some decent money on parts... what should i go for first?... o2 sensor? then check the injectors? or just replace them... and the FPR? idk anymore haha

 

Hey KrisW, what mileage do you get with your Buick swap?

 

Well, first I would do the free stuff. Stuffing that tube from the EGR valve to the throttle body (I mean PACK it in there) only costs what aluminum foil costs. Run it for a week and see how it does. You can easily punch it out to clear it up if that fails.

Next, I would do injectors. If you are replacing them that's fine. I personally would rather find a shop locally that can flow them and clean them to make them equal. I am not sure what the cost difference would be for you so you will have to check your budget on that one for sure.

I know people like to blame the O2 sensor a lot. If I recall, the only time the ECM looks at the O2 signal is when the system is in closed loop, which it usually never is when you are just putting around town. Closed loop is when you are on the highway, at cruise speed, and then the ECM just looks at the O2 sensor and adjusts the air fuel amount from that and few other factors.

It seems to me that your sensors are all working properly, and according to your engine temps your engine may not even heat up enough to get to closed loop around town. My best argument that your O2 sensor is fine is that when you do a highway cruise your mileage goes UP by about 50%. I'd say the ECM and O2 sensor are doing everything they can.

recheck that air filter, then go to the EGR and those injectors. The fuel pressure regulator thing I had not heard of before, but it makes sense to me the way it was laid out. I'd check it out.

 

My swap is still in progress; I am gathering parts up as quickly as I can, but I am on the strictest of budgets. I would expect that I will certainly do better than 10 mpg when its all said and done.

With overdrive, 3.50-ish rear gears, and hopefully 450-ish HP.

 

Sounds like you def have a good build to look forward too... I will look into the EGR and the injectors soon. I also hear you can make a small plate and use 2 gaskets right there by the throttle body. i have enough metal laying around and i think the gasket is like 1$ haha. i fear that i wont ever get the foil back out hahaha... so we will see.. thanks for all the help so far...

If anyone else has any other ideas or comments i am still listening....

 

You can also just make a block off gasket with two layers of beer can....

 

Almost sounds entertaining to just try that... haha

i called the local machine shop around me... they said it would be $65 to check, flow, clean, repart, and flow again all 6 injectors... not to bad i guess...

 

I used the egr gasket at the TB as a template to cut out a small plate and sandwiched it between two gaskets. Works a treat and is 'invisible' if that's needed.

 

Now, THAT'S what I was talking about! You do that, and you'll have a definitive report and you can be assured that they are doing the best they can for you. You might find that you have to replace one or two but at least you'll know.

For a daily driver needing mpg, efficiency is your goal. That means good aftermarket coil, cap and rotor, plugs and wires, matched injectors, HP fuel pump, and high flow air intake. I think you said you did the exhaust already? You might also seriously have that cat checked as well. If it is getting plugged AT ALL its like having a banana in the tail pipe and bad mileage with low power as a result.

 

Ya i bought the full dynomax cat back about 6 months back... they had a rebate deal and it was cheaper to get the whole kit... I was wondering about the CAT.. but i think if i replace it i am thinking about getting the y pipe and the converter then doing it all myself.. would be like 300 shipped to the front door from rockauto... then everything but the manifolds would be brand new...

 

You might as well go for the Pacesetter 2.8 Headers and Y-pipe, it doesn't take much modification to use on your application, and it is a vast improvement over what you have. I haven't done it yet, but I have read a lot about it on these forums. Its not too expensive either.

You can get the high flow cat cheap off of eBay, too.

 

Everything i have read tho says you cant keep the air pump... and i have emissions where i am at.. and frankly like fact that everything stock... i wouldnt mind doing the headers as long as it kept everything else stock... but i dont see that happeneing... haha..

 

Its easy enough to do; those air tubes that feed into your manifolds are tubing thread, which just so happens usually to be the same as bolt threads.

You buy the headers, and then on the bench you lay out your air tubes against the headers, then weld a nut on each tube for the air tubes to thread into. I wouldn't drill the hole out to make them functional, but you could if you were so inclined. I would just leave the nuts there so you had a place to "park" the air tubes and keep them looking stock.

And paint the headers barbecue black after the welding. The smog inspector is not likely to notice that they are headers since lots of cars came with tubular manifolds.

Just a suggestion.

 

ya we dont get inspected at all over here in NWI... but they sniff the exhaust / run it on rollers... so the emission equip and sensors and stuff helps... lol.

I have an 85 El camino with a 355 in it. full length headers no emissions equip at all. edelbrock intake and carb. and they just sniff the exhuast and they even pop the hood to check for "leaks" but dont care what the hell in under the hood haha... so wierd... i just give it a tune up and turn the time down a crap ton to pass and then leave the parking lot and turn it back up haha

 

The difference in inspections is how you can tell if the law was written to actually help keep the air clean or if it is just about revenue and control over our lives.

If the state REALLY cared about clean air, the sniffer is all they need. When they get obsessed with visual inspections then the focus shifts from clean air to revenue and control. What difference does anything else make if the sniffer says you are clean?

If clean air was the goal in the first place anyway....

 

So true. I'm lucky as I live outside the smog zone here in New Mexico. When I use to live in Albuquerque (the smog zone center), I would fight with the jokers constantly about the visual inspections. They would make you pay up to $400.00 to put all the smog stuff back on, even if you got it that way. Didn't care not one little bit how clean it ran! Really use to **** me off!

 

I agree with the consensus on the injectors and possibly the egr and/or cat.

However, I have an 89rs 2.8/700r4 with 240,xxx miles, an EGR code(the filter/solenoid thingy), bad front end alignment, and still get generally right around 26mpg driving down here in Florida. Just wish I had a bigger gas tank.

Another thing you may want to look at is the timing and timing chain. a stretched chain can really affect gas mileage. Mine was severly streched as I found out after checking because of horrible mileage.

Might be worth giving that a look.
Good Luck

 

Your EGR on an 89 is a lot different than the 90-92 Digital EGR piece that 3.1 engines suffer from.

When the old style EGR fails, it TENDS to fail into the closed mode, which just makes it not work. For yours to malfunction the way that a 3.1 EGR does, you would need an EGR valve in great condition, and an actuator that kept it at about 50% open all the time.

My 90 3.1 with digital EGR failed in such a way and really knocked the crap out of the mileage. This has happened with countless GM 60*V6 engines that came with the digital EGR, most of them 3.1 and 3.4 variety. It is a serious known problem of them.

And for me would have cost 275 bucks to replace back when it happened. I plugged it and never looked back.

Timing chain stretch is valid and can be pretty easily checked. When I have discovered it in the past, I could set the timing perfect according to the manual, rev it up 3 times, and then the timing was off again. I never could get the timing right.

Then an old timer told me my chain was stretched, I pulled it out and sure enough it was.

 

Well This weekend I got around to working on the NOT so lean mean green machine... haha. Changed out the cap, rotor, wires, and plugs. Popped in a new O2 sensor.. it was cheap... and checked for this pesky oil leak, that i swear was coming from the rear main or a rear freeze plug or sometihng... turns our the oil pan seal is just complete crap.. so i gotta pull the pan next Saturday.. and suggestions on the best way to swap that seal out haha.

We did a fuel pressure test, we got 40-42 psi after turn-key-on, then about 38-40 when the car was running. let it run for a few mins and then shut it off... pressure went back up to 40-42. and held for over a half an hour before we pulled the gauge back off.. So i would assume that i dont have a leaky injector at least.. right?.. comments? LOL

I am an electrical engineer.. so i was interested in ohm checking the injectors.. just to realize that they are hidden under the upper intake.. haha idk how you guys test them without pulling the upper. If you do pull the upper do the gasktets get ruined? if so can you just buy the upper to lower gaskets? i have only found full gasket sets.

So my next plan is to figure the best way to ohm test injectors, get them cleaned and flowed, and to make sure the pressure regulator is good... and then i have to figure something with the EGR. I think its working.. the ECM says its working when datalogging. but how am i do know its working right.. lol. for some reason i just dont feel right plugging it. But you guys have the experience with these engines.. so let me know. HAHA Thanks again for all of your guys help! Keep any and all suggestions coming. I really do appreciate the feedback!

 

Good fuel pressure readings. That means at least nothing in the top end of the engine is leaking, including injectors and regulator. You'll still need to ohm them all and they should all be the same. That will affect if one is possibly spraying more gasoline than the others.

When I pull the upper intake on mine I have never damaged those gaskets. If you do, I guess you'll need an intake set to get them. I probably would just make them out of gasket paper if its me...

When you changed the plugs, did any look different at all? Were any blacker than the rest?

As far as the EGR goes, it won't affect the operation of the car at all if you plug it off for a test. Then you'll know if its bad or it isn't. If you plug that line going to your intake and the car gets the same exact mileage the following the week then you know you can eliminate that as a source of trouble. From a performance or fuel efficiency standpoint, that EGR is negative with all of its effects. It doesn't do one good thing. As we found out in later engines that source of "treatment" is not necessary for clean air either. Many newer engines do not even use EGR anymore. The only reason to have it fully functional is if you need it to be compliant with the law.

 

When i pulled the plugs they all looked the same.. almost brand new looking... They were the bosch +4 platinum... Now i am a strong believer in replacing stuff with Delco parts.. other than going aftermarket like accel or msd... But these plugs looked brand new! was almost unreal. haha. i held on to them just in case.

So my understanding is that if i plug the egr tube going to the TB and the mpg stays the same. Then the EGR was closing and opening as it was supposed to. But if the mpg gets better then it means the EGR was leaking exhuast gas into the TB at unwanted times...? like all the time.. throwing off the AF mixture and such?

 

Thats pretty much how I find out mine was stretched, set timing, then the "I just set the timing, why the hell is it off!" statement, then "oh, might want to check that." eureka!!!!

Yea, my egr is brand new but the solenoid/filter for it is bad. Another thing, I have Buick Century custom 18lb/hr Disc style injectors. Wayyy better than pintle style injectors.

Then again I'm not sure about the 3.1; still pintle or disc injectors?

Check the ohms with a voltmeter set on ohms, just under K-ohms. either way you check the injector electrical tabs, you should get your reading.
My injectors are within +/- .2 ohms.

 

That's pretty much the way I figure it. Since its just a test, it doesn't cost any money and you can always put it back like it was. Be very careful not to crack that tube that goes from the digital EGR to the throttle body. Mine was really brittle. Soak the bolts in penetrating oil before trying to remove them so you don't snap one off.

 

My 90 3.1 had the MULTEC (disc) injectors, and so did the later V6 engines that I pulled injectors from.

My 89 and older were all the pintle style.

 

Holy moly, there is some BAD info here...

willie, how in the world could you be running 18# injectors and not be running rich? Our engines have 140 HP, meaning that the biggest injector that should be installed is the 15.4# injector found in the 2.8 (3.1 injectors are 14.7#). I ran the 3100/3.4 injectors on my 3.1 for a while and promptly yanked them because of hard starts (leaked) and all 6 cylinders were fouling plugs due to oversize injectors.

Second, closed loop operation is NOT strictly highway. Closed loop is ANYTIME the coolant temp is over 160*F and the O2S is signaling that it has reached 600*F and is producing a workable voltage signal. My car drops into closed loop when idling in the driveway (as in not having moved yet while warming up when it's cold). Proof? Look at your idle speed, if you have a working tach. Cold should be 1200 RPM (ECM controlled). Hot should be in the ballpark of 700. The only time the idle speed drops is when the engine and ECM systems are in closed loop. If any sensor is out of line and the ECM throws a code, the ECM exits closed loop mode and goes back to 1200 RPM (been there and done that).

Third, ANY spark plug that is dry and black that is pulled out of an engine indicates a rich condition. The plugs should be anywhere from white to tan (not too white, they probably don't have enough tan on them to be seen behind the thread shell). Wet black indicates an oil control problem, be it leaky rings or valves.

4th, any 2.8 could come with either 2.8 pintle cap injectors (Delco 523-5210, for example) or the 3.1 disc style (I've found the 14084888 to be common). I'm not saying they did, but I'm saying that is what the parts catalogs say for replacements.

OP, dollars to donuts the O2S needs to be replaced if everything else is good and the engine is STILL running rich. Either that, or the MAP. :edit: Oh, and the GM spec for fuel injector resistance is 11.8 ohms at the lowest (for the 3.1), and 1 ohm difference between the highest and lowest reading injectors.

 

ya i will have to try that prolly next weekend or so.. after i replace the oil pan gasket and get this thing to stop flowing oil everywhere haha...

Well i did replace it for craps and giggles... figured y not.. haha. If the MAP was bad would i get an engine code?..


So things that could possible be wrong still i have:
EGR leaking or bad...
Injectors ohm out bad / need cleaning...
CAT is plugged
Timing may be off? and or jumping around.
MAP bad?

Not to much i guess.. haha.
The EGR i will block off and check for MPG changes...
If i pull the upper intake to check the injectors... should i just get them cleaned anyway?....
Can you get a cat checked for flow on the car?...
If the timing chain was that loose wouldnt it skip a tooth and start having knocking problems with valves and stuff?... so far i wouldnt expect a timing problem.. but i need to get a better timing light before i can test and rule it out..

 

Wow, not trying to upset you man, but you might be missing a little something. I am sure you are a super tech out there saving the world from open loop, but I actually went to a GM school or two in my day, specifically GM fuel injection, specifically the 80's-90's OBD 1 stuff. I wouldn't peddle bad info on purpose, so let me try again..

You are not in closed loop if you are working the throttle. Not on a third gen ECM setup anyway. Maybe some newer stuff does it, I really don't know about that stuff. I DO know that in a GM ECM, as soon as you step on the gas you are out of closed loop. No way the ECM is in closed loop when I am at the drag strip even though everything is warmed up. No way does my car just rely on an old narrow band O2 sensor to get me to the end.

So what I mean is that there are specific parameters that the ECM looks at when choosing to go to closed loop. As soon as you violate one, it drops back to open loop. At least that's what my old GM fuel injection book says. It could be wrong.

Really though, I am not trying to argue with you. I just want the OP to not be wondering why he changed the O2 sensor and gas mileage didn't change. The main purpose is to help him, not to argue.

 

Have you reset the ECM yet, after checking and replacing all this stuff? If not, do so, as it's still assuming bad parts are still in place.

It's doubtful that the cat is clogged. If it was, the engine would slowly choke itself out on longer drives (but you can have the system pressure tested through the O2S port). It's also doubtful the EGR is leaking if you cleaned it, since there wouldn't be anything to hold the pintles open. The corrugated flex tube, on the other hand... I'll need to look up the specs on the MAP for idle voltage, but check first to make sure that the green wire isn't shorted to either of the others.

Kris...

From my 87 Service Manual:

"The system will stay in Open Loop operation until the following conditions are met:

1. O2S has varying voltage output showing it is hot enough to work properly (EGT of about 600*F);
2. CTS is above a specified operating temp of about 25*C or 160*F;
3. A specific amount of time has elapsed after starting engine (about 3-5 minutes, IIRC, in our bins)." Does NOT mention TPS readings except under Clear Flood mode.

Under heavy throttle usage, the ECM enters Acceleration Mode or Decel Mode, depending on how fast the throttle is manipulated. If the throttle is manipulated gently, as in to change speed by only a couple miles per hour on a highway or other road, the system stays in Closed Loop.

 

Hahahahhahah! Mine is an 86 manual at home hahahhaha! That's awesome!

Yes that is what I was trying to say. Consistent speed is the key to closed loop. In town driving, leaving from stop lights and coming up to stop lights, its not going to be in closed loop unless you are CAREFUL. I don't drive that way, especially with my 5 speed car.

Thanks for dropping that info.

 

After looking around some more I have found on the forum timing should be 10deg BTDC. or maybe a few deg more adv... 11-13? BTDC. Suggestions...

So the Cat is prob ok to assume its not plugged?..

I will check the MAP wires for shorts, engine off i assume.

And i will have to get the upper intake off prolly next weekend and ohm test the injectors. Should I pull them anyway and have them checked?.. I mean it could be a waste of money.. esp if they ohm out ok.. only 88,700 on the whole car.. engine was rebuilt lets say 20,000 ago, and was told to me was 30 over.. idk if that has anything to do with it now that i think about it...

I know i keep saying it, but i really do appreciate all the help, and automotive wisdom haha.

 

If you're pulling the top off to check injector resistance you may as well pull them and have them checked/cleaned or replaced as appropriate. Plus open the FPR and check the diaphragm. If it's original it's likely cracked and should maybe replaced so you don't have to touch the top again. If you're not sure about the injectors the 15# set from Southbay is a good investment in peace of mind and knowing you have the right injectors.